Trade Deadline Rumours & Discussion Thread

[ATLTimekeeper]

Very well written.

This strategy of operating above cap AND punting draft picks for Thad is stupid as hell. When you are above cap, it's hard to add through FA to improve team meaningfully. So the only way is by adding FRP to upgrade your players via trade - yet FO threw away FRP like it's a liability (rookie contract cost)

They got back Koloko 3.2 million guaranteed v. #20 which is something closer to 5 million guaranteed. FRP contracts aren't liabilities, but I don't think they treated it as such. They got one of the best vets in the league who helped them get some playoff experience last year and a rotation player. There's two ways to win the trade v. just selecting a good player with it.

[bballsparkin]

There’s no way Barnes OG Siakam aren’t 3 starters on a championship team. You already have that.

It’s foolish to entirely restart and get rid of OG/Siakam.

Championship teams are built around 8 guys.

Starters
X/Barnes/OG/Siakam/x

Bench

GTJ/Precious/x

Is a championship team with the right Xs filled in. It’s Masai’s job to find the way to fill them.


Tanking out this year, probably nets you one of the starting Xs. FVV and any asset other then this years first gets you the other X starter.

And when you’re fully ready to win in 2 years, X off the bench is a vet who joins for cheap to win a ring

I agree that all three are starters on a championship team. My doubts is the three of them together.

OG is shooting 35.6% from three. Pascal is 32.4%. And Barnes is at 28.2%. That's not going to cut it in this era. Those expecting a blow up will be disappointed. Masai and crew drive a hard bargain. In the long run I'm of the position that one of the mentioned trio should be moved eventually unless some drastic improvement in shooting occurs. I also, think one of GTJ or Fred should be moved as well.

[bballsparkin]

I am glad that San Antonio is asking for two FRPs for Poeltl. He's a nice player but I would be very disappointed if the FO trades a first for him. Especially this years. Even if it was with protection. The Spurs can always re-sign him or try to orchestrate a S+T in the off-season.

[DelAbbot]

This strategy of operating above cap AND punting draft picks for Thad is stupid as hell. When you are above cap, it's hard to add through FA to improve team meaningfully. So the only way is by adding FRP to upgrade your players via trade - yet FO threw away FRP like it's a liability (rookie contract cost)

So in your mind, drafting Koloko - who has the top net rating in this years' rookie class and is the only legit rim protector we've got - is the source of the Raptors' problems going forward?

Interesting.

That is not what I said.

[bballsparkin]

They got back Koloko 3.2 million guaranteed v. #20 which is something closer to 5 million guaranteed. FRP contracts aren't liabilities, but I don't think they treated it as such. They got one of the best vets in the league who helped them get some playoff experience last year and a rotation player. There's two ways to win the trade v. just selecting a good player with it.

It's pretty obvious that the Raptors had no intentions of picking Kessler. Missing out on Nembhard might sting but I'm fairly confident in Koloko. Thad also gets minutes from NN. He helps protect the other players from NN overplaying them even more imo.

[WuTang_CMB]

Trent is for sure gone because they arent committing that type of money even if the cap is going up

My guess is they find the Gary Trent 2.0 with same similar upside/contract situation but 2 years later , and hopefully add a pick

[ATLTimekeeper]

They got back Koloko 3.2 million guaranteed v. #20 which is something closer to 5 million guaranteed. FRP contracts aren't liabilities, but I don't think they treated it as such. They got one of the best vets in the league who helped them get some playoff experience last year and a rotation player. There's two ways to win the trade v. just selecting a good player with it.

It's pretty obvious that the Raptors had no intentions of picking Kessler. Missing out on Nembhard might sting but I'm fairly confident in Koloko. Thad also gets minutes from NN. He helps protect the other players from NN overplaying them even more imo.

I say this every year but there's around 15 players in every draft. If you can get one after pick #15 you're doing well.

[Harold_and_Kumar]

Blake's article really gets at the heart of some of the problems with how the roster is constructed when you take a look at how we've played.

As a though experiment, let's say we currently had HCA in the East. There's no way you blow it up because you believe you can add around the margins to improve the team. You could even talk yourself into Poetl or Turner for 2FRPs (I wouldn't for Poeltl, but you get the point). Instead, we aren't even in the play-in and if things stay this way it's completely irresponsible to tie the hands of the franchise over the next 3 years by re-signing Fred/GTJ, knowing you have very little recourse.

This is why I think Trent is 100% gone, and one of OG/Siakam/FVV are likely gone too. I wouldn't put it past the FO to believe they can now get Fred at a value deal and want to keep him (also, for #culture) and explore moving OG/Siakam, mostly for young players on the cusp of breaking out. Personally, I think OG gets traded as he's the one you seem to be able to get the most value out of.

Say, deals centered around:
GTJ for Covington, Mann
OG/Thad for Sharpe, Simons

That way you re-tool into next year with:

FVV / (Scottie)
Simons / Sharpe
Scottie / Mann
Siakam / Boucher
Precious / Koloko

You'd also be adding your first, second, and whatever else you get back in trades for the 2023 draft.

Not necessarily my first choice, but it would allow you to potentially develop and compete at the same time, which is I think the preferred approach of our FO. Personally, I'm shipping out FVV and potentially keeping GTJ, but that's me.

Either way, and even though I love OG as a player, I like it better than what we have today. There's untapped upside in that team and I could see them in a playoff position next season.

[bape_lovers]

if we can Drose somehow, that would be good

[Ell Curry]

When I really drill down and look at potential teams for Siakam, it feels like the Nets make the most sense. Joe Harris, Seth Curry, Patty Mills, 4 firsts and 2 swaps sort of thing. We bet on Kyrie leaving and KD aging or leaving or getting hurt again and Siakam and Simmons being as bad a fit as Barnes/Siakam.

Too many of the teams that would send us a Gobert/Mitchell package for Siakam look like consistent 50 win teams with him.

The list of teams who might offer all or close to all their picks for Siakam, have potential downside AND have lots of picks left seem like:

Brooklyn
Dallas (end of the day, Luka is one man, so he could get hurt or bolt)
Portland (Dame has been great, but he's old and had injury trouble last year),
Philly (but only if we get Maxey or he goes out in a 3 teamer, because Maxey-Siakam is too good a floor even if Embiid gets hurt and Harden bolts or declines quickly)
Bulls (GM might be desperate to save his job, Lavine and Ball have injury issues and everyone else is old or maybe not that good, though I like Williams)
Wizards (really like this one actually. Porzingis and Beal are big injury risks and the Siakam-Porzingis fit is so good they might send us the kitchen sink)

[duppyy]

Maybe Dallas would take the trash man’s version of Brunson.

[Oakvillehoops]

I think before the team makes trades, they strongly need to evaluate was position they have Barnes playing down the road.

If we want to groom him as a PG, the right trades are very different then if he’s just going to be a crashing and banging Draymond Green

[Jadoogar]

When I really drill down and look at potential teams for Siakam, it feels like the Nets make the most sense. Joe Harris, Seth Curry, Patty Mills, 4 firsts and 2 swaps sort of thing. We bet on Kyrie leaving and KD aging or leaving or getting hurt again and Siakam and Simmons being as bad a fit as Barnes/Siakam.

Do the Nets even have their picks? i think they gave up a bunch in the Harden trade.

[WuTang_CMB]

Maybe Dallas would take the trash man’s version of Brunson.

Dallas should be all over Toronto asking for any of Trent, FVV, OG.

Any one of those guys are great fits .. Siakam too but I dont think hes on the table.

I'd take unprotected pick for Trent 24'

[Raptors Realtor]

When I really drill down and look at potential teams for Siakam, it feels like the Nets make the most sense. Joe Harris, Seth Curry, Patty Mills, 4 firsts and 2 swaps sort of thing. We bet on Kyrie leaving and KD aging or leaving or getting hurt again and Siakam and Simmons being as bad a fit as Barnes/Siakam.

Too many of the teams that would send us a Gobert/Mitchell package for Siakam look like consistent 50 win teams with him.

The list of teams who might offer all or close to all their picks for Siakam, have potential downside AND have lots of picks left seem like:

Brooklyn
Dallas (end of the day, Luka is one man, so he could get hurt or bolt)
Portland (Dame has been great, but he's old and had injury trouble last year),
Philly (but only if we get Maxey or he goes out in a 3 teamer, because Maxey-Siakam is too good a floor even if Embiid gets hurt and Harden bolts or declines quickly)
Bulls (GM might be desperate to save his job, Lavine and Ball have injury issues and everyone else is old or maybe not that good, though I like Williams)
Wizards (really like this one actually. Porzingis and Beal are big injury risks and the Siakam-Porzingis fit is so good they might send us the kitchen sink)

If you're trading Siakam, you absolutely have to get some high upside prospects in return in addition to picks... Picks and vets/salary filler is way too risky.

[niQ]

Maybe Dallas would take the trash man’s version of Brunson.

Dallas should be all over Toronto asking for any of Trent, FVV, OG.

Any one of those guys are great fits .. Siakam too but I dont think hes on the table.

I'd take unprotected pick for Trent 24'

I can see Dallas might have some appetite for FVV if they're not willing to wait and develop Jaden Hardy. But they have been giving him minutes when Luka sits so

Although, maybe some pressure from Luka will help... https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270054/Luka-Doncic-Has-Strongly-Indicated-Desire-For-Mavericks-To-Upgrade-Roster-By-Deadline

[WuTang_CMB]

Toronto Raptors

Trade meter: 8

What to watch: Fred VanVleet and Gary Trent Jr.

For a second time in three seasons, Raptors President of Basketball Operations Masai Ujiri finds himself at a crossroads with an underachieving roster.

This time instead of exploring trade options for Kyle Lowry and Norman Powell, the Raptors' front office is now tasked with deciding the futures of Fred VanVleet and Gary Trent Jr.

VanVleet has a $22.8 million player option for next season and is eligible to sign a four-year, $114 million extension, something that he has tabled for now.

"Without going too far into it ... [I'm] just trying to put myself in a good position businesswise, and not take an extension on a deal that was made three or four years ago," VanVleet told ESPN's Tim Bontemps. "I felt like I've outplayed that contract thus far. So just trying to get myself in a position to put the cards in their hands. They have to make a decision from an organization standpoint."

VanVleet is right that he has outplayed the four-year, $85 million contract that he signed in 2020. His $21.2 million salary this season ranks No. 19 among all point guards.

However, would a new contract with a premium salary -- think north of $30 million per year -- be rewarding VanVleet for what he's done in the past or paying him for what the future holds?

VanVleet is coming off an All-Star year, has won a championship and is only 28 years old. In the past four seasons, he has averaged 36.8 minutes per game (second overall to James Harden), but has missed a total of 63 games due to various injuries. He is also shooting a career low 32.9% from 3 this season.

The decision on Trent comes down to one question: Can Toronto afford to pay its fifth-best player north of $20 million per year on a new contract?

Trent is averaging a career high 18.2 points per game and has topped the 20-point mark 15 times this season, but he is likely the odd man out because of his $18.8 million player option for next season.

In addition to VanVleet this offseason, Toronto will likely hand out significant pay raises to Pascal Siakam and O.G. Anunoby in 2024-25 and Scottie Barnes the following year.

Front-office trade history: Masai Ujiri has made 22 trades since 2013, including 12 during the regular season.

Last regular-season trade: Traded Goran Dragic and a 2022 first-round pick (Malaki Branham) to San Antonio for Thaddeus Young, Drew Eubanks and a 2022 second-round pick (Christian Koloko).

Trade we would like to see: Trent to New Orleans for Devonte' Graham, Jaxson Hayes and a 2027 first-round pick (less favorable of New Orleans and Milwaukee). If either first falls in the top-5, New Orleans will send Toronto 2028 and 2029 second-round picks.

Trade exceptions: None

Cash available: $6.4 million (to send out) $6.4 million (to receive)

Salary info and restrictions:

Toronto is $4.5 million below the luxury tax and has an open roster spot.

Draft assets:

The Raptors have their own first-round pick in the next seven years.

Toronto has six second-round picks available to use in a trade.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Lol if the best help Luka got was cam reddish

[Ell Curry]

When I really drill down and look at potential teams for Siakam, it feels like the Nets make the most sense. Joe Harris, Seth Curry, Patty Mills, 4 firsts and 2 swaps sort of thing. We bet on Kyrie leaving and KD aging or leaving or getting hurt again and Siakam and Simmons being as bad a fit as Barnes/Siakam.

Do the Nets even have their picks? i think they gave up a bunch in the Harden trade.

I think - could be wrong - but looks like they can part with:
1. 2029 or 2030 unprotected (Raptors choice)
2. 2028 swap
3. Philly 2027 1st, top 8 protected for that year and 2028

So yeah, probably you need Simmons in there as a 3 way deal to make the value work.

[wegotthabeet]

There’s no way Barnes OG Siakam aren’t 3 starters on a championship team. You already have that.

It’s foolish to entirely restart and get rid of OG/Siakam.

Championship teams are built around 8 guys.

Starters
X/Barnes/OG/Siakam/x

Bench

GTJ/Precious/x

Is a championship team with the right Xs filled in. It’s Masai’s job to find the way to fill them.


Tanking out this year, probably nets you one of the starting Xs. FVV and any asset other then this years first gets you the other X starter.

And when you’re fully ready to win in 2 years, X off the bench is a vet who joins for cheap to win a ring

100% agree with this. people expecting the FO to move off of OG/Siakam/Barnes are probably being naive. I could see one or both of FVV/GTJ getting moved. I think that is more realistic, but not a complete blowup where OG & Siakam get moved too, no matter where the team is at record wise in a few weeks.

starters: Barnes - x - OG - Siakam - x
bench: x combo guard - Achiuwa - Koloko

raps rotation
Barnes
OG
Siakam
Achiuwa
Koloko
x
x
x

that's three or four spots to fill if they move on from GTJ and FVV.

I could also see them just sorting everything out in the offseason. what's the worst thing that could happen if GTJ & FVV opt out and walk? it just creates the flexibility to add other pieces via FA or trade using the cap space created.

if they somehow just win the lottery do they really have to do anything major? how good would this team be with just adding Wemby? i'm in favour of a shake up, but i'm not sure the FO will do anything until the draft/summer.

starters: Barnes - GTJ - OG - Siakam - Wembanyama
bench: FVV - Achiuwa - Koloko