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2023 Draft Discussion Part 5

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#781 » by DreamTeam09 » Wed May 24, 2023 6:30 pm

niQ wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:Who's actually supposed to take Wallace before Us?

Spurs - Vic
Hornets - Miller or Scoot
Portland - Scoot or Miller
Rockets - Amen
Det - Cam Whitmore
Orlando - Taylor Hendricks
Indy - Jarace Walker
Was - Asur or Black
Utah - Black or Asur
Dal - Grady Dick
Orlando - NSJ
Thunder - Reupert or Miller
Raptors - Cason Wallace

This is the best mock I've seen to date, Wallace is definitely a drop candidate


Most likely Washington and Utah as they need a starting PG.

Then there's a small chance a team like Dallas or Magic take him.


Black is gonna be the first PG off the board so they wouldn't take Cason over him, I think the top 10 is solidified and Cason wouldn't be in it.

I agree Dallas was my likeliest choice as well, but they need wings first and foremost.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#782 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Wed May 24, 2023 6:30 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.


If we can flip OPJ for a late first from a contending team I'd def consider Bilal in the 20's. He's young but looks like a good prospect with great measurements.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#783 » by Jadoogar » Wed May 24, 2023 6:30 pm

REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:I think there's a solid chance Jarace falls out of top 10.


PFs that can't shoot are falling out of favor, especially if he can't play the 5. It's very hard to find a fit for those types of players because you need a center who can shoot. He might fit in Indiana.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#784 » by PhilBlackson » Wed May 24, 2023 6:33 pm

For me I basically have 3 Tiers of Prospects I like...

1 - Coulibaly, Cissiko
2 - George
3 - Bufkin, Wallace

People can flame how I view them, idc lol, but for me it's mainly what I believe is Tiers of potential with obviously the top being the highest potential.

I believe my "Tier 1" guys have the "potential" as in at the height of theirs to be anywhere from borderline to actual all-star level players (obviously a far ways off today). Both guys are coming in with a higher skillset than either OG or Pascal coming with Sidy being substantially ahead and Bilal being more physically gifted that for me makes his potential slightly higher than Cissiko which is why Bilal is top of my list. Sidy would obviously be more ready to contribute and personally idc if it does take a year or two to develop Bilal to a point he's ready to do likewise. Short of major trades ie/ POR 3rd for Pascal, this team really doesn't have any high level upside aside from Scottie and the only way this team will break through it's ceiling as low seed Playoff team is to get players who have the chance to reach Pascal's level or better, I believe those 2 at least have the potential to. If they hit the heights of their potentials to me, that could actually move the needle long term. To be clear I don't see superstar for either guy but if this team just added another actual all-star on the wings in Gary or OG's place, that to me would at least be a team with the potential to do something.

Tier 2 is just Keyonte, I think his ceiling is likely more around borderline all-star type to maaaaaaybe all-star level, again this all about at the HEIGHT of their potential not me projecting it as the likely outcome. Maybe I'm wrong but it turns out the shot looks a lot better (as it did in HS) and it was the ankle injury slowing him down. All reports have been how impressed everyone was with him at the combine, how he looked more explosive and quicker there which would make a HUGE difference imo if that's the case where maybe he could be an all-star level guard. I'm NOT saying level of player but I do see a lot of Jamal Murray/Kyrie type of play from Keyonte and to me that's just a perfect fit with Scottie. Said it before I believe Scottie must be used something like Jokic to really get the most out of him and you get him his "Murray" type of player, I think it will work well even if both guys obviously aren't at the level of Jok/JM. But one thing I'm confident in is George will not be a player scared of the moment as he looks like he has incredible confidence and swagger which this team sorely needs come Playoffs. At the height of his potential, I don't think he helps us breakthrough but would help take the team up maybe a notch and just be a more entertaining team to watch too.

Tier 3, Bufkin & Wallace...they're both players I'll have no huge gripes about drafting but to me they're the "safe" picks/high floor players. I think both guys are pretty much shoe ins to at least be good, contributing players but I don't see very high ceilings for either personally. Not that they can't be really good...I can see them reaching the levels of guys like Fred...maybe Maxey which to me is borderline all-star (***any time I'm saying this I'm saying that as the HEIGHT of their potentials, not the likely outcome) and for me yes that's a very nice player to have & valuable but it doesn't really excite me because even at the high end I don't see them making the team that much better than what they are today if they take Gary's spot in the lineup.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#785 » by DreamTeam09 » Wed May 24, 2023 6:34 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:I think there's a solid chance Jarace falls out of top 10.


PFs that can't shoot are falling out of favor, especially if he can't play the 5. It's very hard to find a fit for those types of players because you need a center who can shoot. He might fit in Indiana.


Yeah I don't see him getting past Indy
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#786 » by Psubs » Wed May 24, 2023 6:40 pm

UnbelievablyRAW wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.


If we can flip OPJ for a late first from a contending team I'd def consider Bilal in the 20's. He's young but looks like a good prospect with great measurements.


I'm with packaging OPJr, Precious and/or Flynn to get another 1st pick.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#787 » by Psubs » Wed May 24, 2023 6:43 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:I think there's a solid chance Jarace falls out of top 10.


PFs that can't shoot are falling out of favor, especially if he can't play the 5. It's very hard to find a fit for those types of players because you need a center who can shoot. He might fit in Indiana.


Yeah I don't see him getting past Indy


Yeah, they probably go Hendricks or Walker.

PG Haliburton - McConnell
SG Hield - Nembard/Duarte
SF Mathurin - Nesmith
PF Jarace - Nwora
C Turner - Jackson

I wonder if they could do a trade with Detroit for one of (Steward, Wiseman or Duren) plus #31 and 2024 1st pick?

Then Detroit gets Amen at #5 and Ausar at #7?
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#788 » by ArthurVandelay » Wed May 24, 2023 6:46 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.


He’ll be a scoring wing/guard eventually with incredible size. He is not and will not be a PF or big.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#789 » by ItsDanger » Wed May 24, 2023 6:47 pm

If at the rim % includes easy transition pts, then this stat must be taken within context. Its half court at the rim % that would be more meaningful.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#790 » by REJECTEDBYCLARK » Wed May 24, 2023 6:50 pm

The problem with Walker and actually why the Julius Randle w excellent defense comps are valid is that he plays with an overall mediocre and sometimes outright low IQ. He's gonna produce in the NBA but is he gonna enrage a fanbase with a plethora of boneheaded plays in important games? That's my concern.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#791 » by Grew » Wed May 24, 2023 6:51 pm

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

This kid had an extra season of sitting on the bench and practicing to figure out the college game, which is a totally different game than the NBA. Stepped on the court every night believing Hunter Dickinson was the best player on his team. Went to a blue chip school where he put up decent numbers to NOT EVEN MAKE THE TOURNAMENT. I guess the numbers on a bad team thing doesn't matter for college?

In contrast Keyonte George scores more point (albeit inefficiently) on a team with multiple upper classman guards who think it's their team, yet Keyonte swaggers on the court believing he's the best player on it. Baylor earned a 3rd seed in the tournament.

When comparing these two to what our team needs, the choice is clear to me. Did you guys watch a lot of Bufkin? Or is this mostly looking at his percentage at the rim and the highlight vids. This guy isn't another Fox just because he finishes at the rim with his left hand. How much are we putting stock in his name being Kobe?

Obviously if we draft him I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see the mentality/physicality that's going to propel this kid into becoming anything significant in the NBA. I think he's an 8th man on a good team at his peak. I would love it if the hype he's getting made a team in front of us draft him.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#792 » by Yallbecrazy » Wed May 24, 2023 6:53 pm

Psubs wrote:
UnbelievablyRAW wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.


If we can flip OPJ for a late first from a contending team I'd def consider Bilal in the 20's. He's young but looks like a good prospect with great measurements.


I'm with packaging OPJr, Precious and/or Flynn to get another 1st pick.


OPJ has 0 trade value after his injury. If he had any he wouldn't have opted in
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#793 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Wed May 24, 2023 6:55 pm

PhilBlackson wrote:For me I basically have 3 Tiers of Prospects I like...


Why is Keyonte at a higher level than Bufkin even though he's older and was much worse in college?

Bufkin's numbers got better when his usage went up following Howard getting injured and he damn near shot 50/40/85 in the last 16 games of the season. He's also taller than Keyonte and shot 70% at the rim.

I keep seeing sentiments similar to yours feeling Keyonte has star potential but I don't see why its also common to see Kobe as a decent guard who could be a good starter or something. I honestly feel like Kobe's production should warrant the hype Keyonte has been getting and not the other way around.

I wouldn't hate a Keyonte pick but I def would rather have Bufkin. Guys that show they can steadily improve especially within season means they are putting work in
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#794 » by deeps6x » Wed May 24, 2023 6:56 pm

Psubs wrote:
UnbelievablyRAW wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.


If we can flip OPJ for a late first from a contending team I'd def consider Bilal in the 20's. He's young but looks like a good prospect with great measurements.


I'm with packaging OPJr, Precious and/or Flynn to get another 1st pick.

I could see #27 from the Hornets or #28 from the Jazz freeing up. I don't think you could do better than this level. Do you?
Who would you be wanting to pick in the 27/28 range?
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#795 » by Psubs » Wed May 24, 2023 7:01 pm

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#796 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Wed May 24, 2023 7:01 pm

deeps6x wrote:
Psubs wrote:
UnbelievablyRAW wrote:
If we can flip OPJ for a late first from a contending team I'd def consider Bilal in the 20's. He's young but looks like a good prospect with great measurements.


I'm with packaging OPJr, Precious and/or Flynn to get another 1st pick.

I could see #27 from the Hornets or #28 from the Jazz freeing up. I don't think you could do better than this level. Do you?
Who would you be wanting to pick in the 27/28 range?


Strawher, Pods, Maxwell Lewis, Sasser, Trayce Jackson-Davis, Bilal if he's still there, Dariq Whitehead if he falls because of his surgery etc

Lots of guys with potential
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#797 » by ItsDanger » Wed May 24, 2023 7:11 pm

If teams are looking for a Norm Powell type SG in 2nd round, it could be Terrence Shannon Jr. I just don't know if his effort level is there or does he have the necessary BBIQ to be a consistent performer off the bench.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#798 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Wed May 24, 2023 7:22 pm

Grew wrote:The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

This kid had an extra season of sitting on the bench and practicing to figure out the college game, which is a totally different game than the NBA. Stepped on the court every night believing Hunter Dickinson was the best player on his team. Went to a blue chip school where he put up decent numbers to NOT EVEN MAKE THE TOURNAMENT. I guess the numbers on a bad team thing doesn't matter for college?

In contrast Keyonte George scores more point (albeit inefficiently) on a team with multiple upper classman guards who think it's their team, yet Keyonte swaggers on the court believing he's the best player on it. Baylor earned a 3rd seed in the tournament.

When comparing these two to what our team needs, the choice is clear to me. Did you guys watch a lot of Bufkin? Or is this mostly looking at his percentage at the rim and the highlight vids. This guy isn't another Fox just because he finishes at the rim with his left hand. How much are we putting stock in his name being Kobe?

Obviously if we draft him I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see the mentality/physicality that's going to propel this kid into becoming anything significant in the NBA. I think he's an 8th man on a good team at his peak. I would love it if the hype he's getting made a team in front of us draft him.


If this mattered as much as on court ability and talent than Hendricks and the Thompson twins should fall precipitously

Bufkin put up 50/45/89 with a 63TS% averaging 17 ppg in his last 13 games of the season. I doubt he got there off fastbreaks and dump offs
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#799 » by grant101 » Wed May 24, 2023 7:37 pm

Grew wrote:The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

This kid had an extra season of sitting on the bench and practicing to figure out the college game, which is a totally different game than the NBA. Stepped on the court every night believing Hunter Dickinson was the best player on his team. Went to a blue chip school where he put up decent numbers to NOT EVEN MAKE THE TOURNAMENT. I guess the numbers on a bad team thing doesn't matter for college?

In contrast Keyonte George scores more point (albeit inefficiently) on a team with multiple upper classman guards who think it's their team, yet Keyonte swaggers on the court believing he's the best player on it. Baylor earned a 3rd seed in the tournament.

When comparing these two to what our team needs, the choice is clear to me. Did you guys watch a lot of Bufkin? Or is this mostly looking at his percentage at the rim and the highlight vids. This guy isn't another Fox just because he finishes at the rim with his left hand. How much are we putting stock in his name being Kobe?

Obviously if we draft him I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see the mentality/physicality that's going to propel this kid into becoming anything significant in the NBA. I think he's an 8th man on a good team at his peak. I would love it if the hype he's getting made a team in front of us draft him.


It's fine to like Keyonte more (I gotta admit, he looks great in his work out vids, and I'm willing to be convinced the ankle injuries were the reason for his poor efficiency), but 'm not sure how you've concluded that Kobe is a "low ceiling" player.

I don't think anyone is comparing him to Fox, but the touch around the rim, particularly with his left is great and he gets to it very easily. I also personally don't care at all that his name is Kobe. I think you need to give folks a little benefit of the doubt. It's not like MU is some directional school in the middle of nowhere, they were on TV a lot this year. Kobe's improvement was evident to anybody paying attention.

When given the opportunity to take the reigns of the offense, I think Kobe killed it. It certainly helped that his 3pt shot seemed to turn around over that same period. Before that, MUs offense revolved around Jett and Hunter. Keyonte, coming in as a 5-star blue chip, featured prominently for Baylor from the jump - even with a crowded backcourt. While there were some notable scoring outburst, as you noted, the results were mixed.

Are you suggesting that Kobe should have taken more shots early on in the year? I guess, but the flip side to that argument is that he's a team-player. Again, it's fine to prefer other players above Kobe, but given his rapid improvement and age, I think the low-ceiling label is unfair
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#800 » by MainEvent » Wed May 24, 2023 7:38 pm

Psubs wrote:
deeps6x wrote:
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:


If Wallace and Bufkin shot 70 and 71% at the rim, as these guys said, then I'm fine with either of them. Will either be available at #13? I don't know.


Bufkin is young enough to be a freshman so could he still grow? The guy on the left thinks he's almost 6'6 :o Maybe 6'6 in shoes? He's could be Manu 2.0!


He measured 6'4.25'' just over a week ago. That's a solid NBA 6'5" listing, don't know if he's still growing.
But say he measured 6'3.5 barefoot he would get listed at 6'5 as well so I guess he's a tall 6'5?

NBA really needs to just use their barefoot measurements :lol:

From that video, dude said from February on Bufkin put up 17 6 4 + 1 steal and 1 blk a game on 52/45/90 :o

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