Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[PushDaRock]

Guys if you really think about it, he played a back to back against Washington on the 8th + 13th! He's never had to do that before... so if you squint really hard, moving on this is actually his rookie season! Lrt consider this year 1 moving forward, and the previous games pre-season.

The goalpost moving honestly needs to stop. He's an elite defender, good playmaker, and a below average scorer. He's in year 4 and he honestly looks like the exact same player from his rookie season... except he has a higher usage. PER36 he's a guy who is going to give you 20/8/6 with 2.5-3.0 stocks on mediocre efficiency. If he can get to league average efficiency (LONG shot), he could end up being a very good #2, but I'm not holding my breath.

He has been completely leap frogged by Cade, Mobley, and Franz... I'd wager Sengun/JJ isnt going to be a discussion starting next season either.

Issue is he's not even at mediocre efficiency, he's straight up terrible. 52.3 TS% ranks him 19th worst in the entire league among qualifying players. The odds of him getting to league average without his USG drastically going down is pretty low, we would need to see him take a massive jump in his game from where he is now.

I think I'm probably taking Trey Murphy over him as well and that's especially the case if we are also factoring in contracts. If we are accepting that Scottie is likely a 3rd/4th scoring option at best, Murphy has the far higher upside offensively and he's plug and play anywhere he goes even if he doesn't end up as a true #2 option on a contender. His defense is also very good at his position, maybe not the same versatility and potential Scottie has on that end though.

[dTox]

Read on Twitter

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Grim

Grimsey xD

Yah, well, Scottie has lobsters for dinner, while Grimes lives in a single room above a bowling alley, and below another bowling alley.

[tsherkin]

Yah, well, Scottie has lobsters for dinner, while Grimes lives in a single room above a bowling alley, and below another bowling alley.

Well played, sir.

[Tha Cynic]

Feels like he's a bit lost with his offense lately. Just no confidence in his shot and he's over-thinking or forcing things, especially when put into these half-court isolation spots where he's forced to be deliberate with his moves, which isn't his strong suit. Not exactly what you wanna see in terms of struggles, but not all progress is linear and he's still hustling, though you can see that tapering off a bit lately as it gets into the final stretch. But they're force-feeding him and putting him in positions to get those on-ball reps, which is fine in a developmental/rebuilding year. Short-term pain, long-term gain.

He's still only 23 going on 24 and there's still time on his side. At the very least he'll hopefully have a healthy/productive summer to work on his game and I think we'll get a better all-around Barnes next season.

Since he won the player of the month it seems to have completely gone downhill offensively. He has been absolutely brutal on offense.

There’s enough over the top thrashing in here so I’ll leave it at that. Let’s hope he has a more of an efficient next season

[AbC?]

Paying the rookie max to a guy best suited to be a 4th option is not ideal. Disappointing development curve yes, but the signs of his limited ceiling were there early.

[YogurtProducer]

Paying the rookie max to a guy best suited to be a 4th option is not ideal. Disappointing development curve yes, but the signs of his limited ceiling were there early.

Depends really. If he can focus on being a game changing defender and opportunistic offensively he will be fine.

[Tha Cynic]

Is he still working with the same guy on his shooting? Something needs to change there too. Has that dude worked with other nba players?

Funny thing is even with his terrible efficiency this season he has still been the best player by advanced stats and it’s due to his offense. Just need to refine and get more efficient.

[XTC]

Is he still working with the same guy on his shooting? Something needs to change there too. Has that dude worked with other nba players?

Funny thing is even with his terrible efficiency this season he has still been the best player by advanced stats and it’s due to his offense. Just need to refine and get more efficient.

The Raptors have an ORTG of 110.3 with Barnes on the floor, and an ORTG of 112.2 with Barnes sitting. To add to that he struggling to score 20 while being force fed shots, and currently has a TS of 52.3% (League average is 57.5%). His efficiency is actually driving the offense down, which makes our situation worrisome... your best player is making your offense worse.

To put it into perspective how awful his efficiency has been, he's -5.2% worst than league average when it comes to efficiency, he's the #19 worst player in the league among players who qualify in efficiency. To put it into perspective how bad that truly is, that's Antoine Walker/Josh Smith category. It's going to be a challenge and stretch for him to even get to league average efficiency. Here's another stat, if Scottie didn't take a single 3 pointer this year his TS would still only be 56.6%... even Ben Simmons with no jumper had his TS fluctuating between 58-60 percent. Its going to be an uphill battle for Barnes to become a positive offensive player, let alone a good one.

I will give him flowers, because his defense has been impressive, but he has the makings of a role player/complimentary piece rather than a franchise player/allstar. We desperately need a guy who can carry the offense, because Scottie isn't it.

Edit - For Scottie to even get to league average efficiency with his midrange game, with his lack of ability to draw fouls, he would have to shoot 40.5% from three (he currently shoots 26.3%) to get to an exact TS of 57.5%... that's the hurdle he needs to overcome.

[dTox]

Is he still working with the same guy on his shooting? Something needs to change there too. Has that dude worked with other nba players?

Funny thing is even with his terrible efficiency this season he has still been the best player by advanced stats and it’s due to his offense. Just need to refine and get more efficient.

It is my biggest gripe with him, wasted many off seasons training with the same no-name trainer he grew up with. Get him some professional help with someone like Hanlan, or equivalent

[canada_dry]

Is he still working with the same guy on his shooting? Something needs to change there too. Has that dude worked with other nba players?

Funny thing is even with his terrible efficiency this season he has still been the best player by advanced stats and it’s due to his offense. Just need to refine and get more efficient.

It is my biggest gripe with him, wasted many off seasons training with the same no-name trainer he grew up with. Get him some professional help with someone like Hanlan, or equivalent

This trainer went on pensare basketball and said scottie can be jokic and had the nerve to thank pensare for telling the truth about scottie consistently.

Get him outta there.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[mdenny]

Paying the rookie max to a guy best suited to be a 4th option is not ideal. Disappointing development curve yes, but the signs of his limited ceiling were there early.

Depends really. If he can focus on being a game changing defender and opportunistic offensively he will be fine.

The contract is fine. Plus it's a moot point. There was no way to try to bargain for less than the max with a player in that context. Unless you wanted to destroy the relationship.

He'll be paid what? Something like top 35? And he'll be a top 45ish player. It's fine. The difference needs to be much larger for it to be an issue. We're talking like 5 million too much per year. Not 20 or 30.

At the very least...he is a pain in the ass to play against. And he will always pose alot of problems in matchups for opposing coaches being such a unique player. A coach with him on the roster can create alot of problems for the other team by circulating him through different positions and roles. There's value in that which goes beyond all the efficiency stuff.

[Los_29]

Is he still working with the same guy on his shooting? Something needs to change there too. Has that dude worked with other nba players?

Funny thing is even with his terrible efficiency this season he has still been the best player by advanced stats and it’s due to his offense. Just need to refine and get more efficient.

It is my biggest gripe with him, wasted many off seasons training with the same no-name trainer he grew up with. Get him some professional help with someone like Hanlan, or equivalent

This trainer went on pensare basketball and said scottie can be jokic and had the nerve to thank pensare for telling the truth about scottie consistently.

Get him outta there.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Where’s Pensare these days? His overhyping of Scottie was legendary.

[canada_dry]

It is my biggest gripe with him, wasted many off seasons training with the same no-name trainer he grew up with. Get him some professional help with someone like Hanlan, or equivalent

This trainer went on pensare basketball and said scottie can be jokic and had the nerve to thank pensare for telling the truth about scottie consistently.

Get him outta there.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Where’s Pensare these days? His overhyping of Scottie was legendary.

He's around. Still insisting scottie is currently a top 25 guy despite his awful scoring, because of his defense.


Still insisting scottie is much better than cade.

Still insisting he's a pg.

The usual.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[HumbleRen]

Is he still working with the same guy on his shooting? Something needs to change there too. Has that dude worked with other nba players?

Funny thing is even with his terrible efficiency this season he has still been the best player by advanced stats and it’s due to his offense. Just need to refine and get more efficient.

It is my biggest gripe with him, wasted many off seasons training with the same no-name trainer he grew up with. Get him some professional help with someone like Hanlan, or equivalent

This trainer went on pensare basketball and said scottie can be jokic and had the nerve to thank pensare for telling the truth about scottie consistently.

Get him outta there.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

FO has to step in at some point. All of his peers are working with professionals, not their HS trainers.

[raincityraptors]

Is he still working with the same guy on his shooting? Something needs to change there too. Has that dude worked with other nba players?

Funny thing is even with his terrible efficiency this season he has still been the best player by advanced stats and it’s due to his offense. Just need to refine and get more efficient.

The Raptors have an ORTG of 110.3 with Barnes on the floor, and an ORTG of 112.2 with Barnes sitting. To add to that he struggling to score 20 while being force fed shots, and currently has a TS of 52.3% (League average is 57.5%). His efficiency is actually driving the offense down, which makes our situation worrisome... your best player is making your offense worse.

To put it into perspective how awful his efficiency has been, he's -5.2% worst than league average when it comes to efficiency, he's the #19 worst player in the league among players who qualify in efficiency. To put it into perspective how bad that truly is, that's Antoine Walker/Josh Smith category. It's going to be a challenge and stretch for him to even get to league average efficiency. Here's another stat, if Scottie didn't take a single 3 pointer this year his TS would still only be 56.6%... even Ben Simmons with no jumper had his TS fluctuating between 58-60 percent. Its going to be an uphill battle for Barnes to become a positive offensive player, let alone a good one.

I will give him flowers, because his defense has been impressive, but he has the makings of a role player/complimentary piece rather than a franchise player/allstar. We desperately need a guy who can carry the offense, because Scottie isn't it.

Edit - For Scottie to even get to league average efficiency with his midrange game, with his lack of ability to draw fouls, he would have to shoot 40.5% from three (he currently shoots 26.3%) to get to an exact TS of 57.5%... that's the hurdle he needs to overcome.

This! The Toronto media doesn't see it yet but the front office does. This is why we just signed BI.

Scottie can lead the defense and team culture while BI leads the offense.

He has time to live up to his contract but the eyetest was already telling me our offense is better without him than with him.

[Los_29]

This trainer went on pensare basketball and said scottie can be jokic and had the nerve to thank pensare for telling the truth about scottie consistently.

Get him outta there.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Where’s Pensare these days? His overhyping of Scottie was legendary.

He's around. Still insisting scottie is currently a top 25 guy despite his awful scoring, because of his defense.


Still insisting scottie is much better than cade.

Still insisting he's a pg.

The usual.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Pure delusion.

[Raps in 4]

It is my biggest gripe with him, wasted many off seasons training with the same no-name trainer he grew up with. Get him some professional help with someone like Hanlan, or equivalent

This trainer went on pensare basketball and said scottie can be jokic and had the nerve to thank pensare for telling the truth about scottie consistently.

Get him outta there.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

FO has to step in at some point. All of his peers are working with professionals, not their HS trainers.

This is on Masai. Scottie is about to enter his fourth NBA off-season. He can't keep working with his **** childhood trainer, especially since in four years in the league, he's added almost nothing to his game.

[youngRAPZ]

This trainer went on pensare basketball and said scottie can be jokic and had the nerve to thank pensare for telling the truth about scottie consistently.

Get him outta there.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

FO has to step in at some point. All of his peers are working with professionals, not their HS trainers.

This is on Masai. Scottie is about to enter his fourth NBA off-season. He can't keep working with his **** childhood trainer, especially since in four years in the league, he's added almost nothing to his game.

How is this on Masai? Players have the summer and can do whatever they want including nothing.


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[Raps in 4]

FO has to step in at some point. All of his peers are working with professionals, not their HS trainers.

This is on Masai. Scottie is about to enter his fourth NBA off-season. He can't keep working with his **** childhood trainer, especially since in four years in the league, he's added almost nothing to his game.

How is this on Masai? Players have the summer and can do whatever they want including nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Try to persuade him to work out with someone else. And if he won't, realize that maybe he's the wrong player to build around.

[ATLTimekeeper]

It is my biggest gripe with him, wasted many off seasons training with the same no-name trainer he grew up with. Get him some professional help with someone like Hanlan, or equivalent

This trainer went on pensare basketball and said scottie can be jokic and had the nerve to thank pensare for telling the truth about scottie consistently.

Get him outta there.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

FO has to step in at some point. All of his peers are working with professionals, not their HS trainers.

I think he has the story wrong. His trainer said that Scottie told him he could be like the Joker, and the trainer told Scottie why that was unlikely.

I think Scottie is significantly better than where he started, so I can't fault the trainer. He said he would work on his midrange package and he has improved there. In the post-season presser he needs to say "this summer is going to be all about ballhandling." It's the first thing David Thorpe said needed to be improved and he has made just small inroads.