I think people are overestimating what DD & Weems will do

[chimpston17]

VC, Jackson & Crawford were all on playoff teams so I don't know how you can't consider them to be part of a winning team. For the Raptors, the alternative to having SG's & SF's who can't score off iso's is to iso your PF, which if done correctly will win you 3 playoff games in 7 years. Here's to 7 more years of agony with Bargnani as our "franchise guy"! Fans seem to be clueless as to how dysfunctional the team's roster has been since VC left. Look at any successful playoff team this past season and they have an all-star or borderline All-star at the 2 or 3 spot who can iso and score.

Your argument makes no sense, you are arguing that a guy like jamal crawford who has handles and can iso at the 2 are what a team needs to win, and that a scoring pf is the way of losers, yet Bargnani has been to the playoffs more times than Jamal Crawford in less years in the league.

Nobody is expecting Bargnani to carry the team to a championship, yet you act condescending to others calling them 'clueless' like we are all have il mago jerseys and are waiting in line to purchase playoff tickets. While you are arguing for the winningness of jamal crawford who has one of the lowest win %'s as a starter in the nba. ok.

Everyone understands that ballhandling is a valuable skill, but offense is not the problem for this team, im not sure why you continue to ignore that.

[Ripp]

Everyone understands that ballhandling is a valuable skill, but offense is not the problem for this team, im not sure why you continue to ignore that.

Agree with most of your post...but offense will probably be a problem next year.

[chsh22]

Agree with most of your post...but offense will probably be a problem next year.

I think if the coaching staff work on it our team (as it stands) could do fairly well with a crash the boards style offense. We have a few guys hungry for time on the court and to prove themselves for new contracts. They're also a fairly athletic bunch. An offense structured around Bargnani shooting from the outside with the other guys crashing the boards could do pretty well. Might be like a C-grade version of what Philly had back when they had Iverson.

[Neotropics]

So what you're saying is that people can never improve ball handling? There was not alot of opportunities for DeRozan to play his true game last season, or to show his ball handling more often. With Calderon and turkoglu always bringing the ball up the court or making plays, it always left DeRozan as the last option.. which is obviously change this season.

[the wizard]

Both are so overrated here on this board ,they are just average players at best that the Raps are really counting on. That a sad state of affair on a team if these 2 are part of your core . Derozan, Weems, Davis ,Amir ,Dorsey and Jack..........The Young Gunz ? No talent ,all are average players . Great campaign to sell the team to the fans ,thats why we are where we are . Good job Colangelo .

[[SJJ]]

Both are so overrated here on this board ,they are just average players at best that the Raps are really counting on. That a sad state of affair on a team if these 2 are part of your core . Derozan, Weems, Davis ,Amir ,Dorsey and Jack..........The Young Gunz ? No talent ,all are average players . Great campaign to sell the team to the fans ,thats why we are where we are . Good job Colangelo .

When it comes to DD and Weems I agree to a certain degree. Some posters are completely delusional and think their stats are going to be way more elevated than they'll realistically be. On the other hand you can't deny that they've made strides this summer. Every coach and "expert" have voiced the fact that they've been impressed with them this summer - so I wouldn't be that surprised if they both would be "better than average" this season.

[TheExpat]

After T-Mac busted out, he credited his success to a conversation with Vince where VC said it was all about 'believing you are the man'. (Before VC started believing he, in fact, had a vagina)'

That is what I have seen from DD this offseason... in the summer league and in his tweets and whatnot. His attitude has changed, and he is going to be a game changer this season as a result.

[VC-INJURY]

Your argument makes no sense, you are arguing that a guy like jamal crawford who has handles and can iso at the 2 are what a team needs to win, and that a scoring pf is the way of losers, yet Bargnani has been to the playoffs more times than Jamal Crawford in less years in the league.

Nobody is expecting Bargnani to carry the team to a championship, yet you act condescending to others calling them 'clueless' like we are all have il mago jerseys and are waiting in line to purchase playoff tickets. While you are arguing for the winningness of jamal crawford who has one of the lowest win %'s as a starter in the nba. ok.

Everyone understands that ballhandling is a valuable skill, but offense is not the problem for this team, im not sure why you continue to ignore that.

lmao calmdownbro.jpg, you're relying on one player to prove your entire point. If you'd like, you can scratch out Jamal Crawford from the list i posted earlier and I think my point still stands. One flaw in your argument is that Crawford has traditionally played on teams that were horrible even before they acquired him (Chicago, New York & Golden State, all bottom feeders of the NBA for the past decade) so it's a skewed statistic. It'd be like saying Elton Brand used to be a terrible player when he was on the Bulls & Clippers, or Gasol on the Grizzlies, Danny Granger on the Pacers, or any other good player who has been surrounded by garbage role players.

Bargnani having been to the playoffs more than Crawford actually proves nothing. According to your logic Adam Morrison is one of the most winningest players in the league then because he has 2 rings in just 4 seasons.

Also, offense is going to be a huge problem for this team this upcoming season and I think "the wizard" said it best...

Both are so overrated here on this board ,they are just average players at best that the Raps are really counting on. That a sad state of affair on a team if these 2 are part of your core . Derozan, Weems, Davis ,Amir ,Dorsey and Jack..........The Young Gunz ? No talent,all are average players. Great campaign to sell the team to the fans ,thats why we are where we are . Good job Colangelo .

[ponder276]

Both will be given fairly large roles, but I agree that we shouldn't be too optimistic about either one. Based on what we saw last season, neither were particularly close to being legit starting wings at the NBA level, it would take MASSIVE improvements for either one to deserve serious starters minutes. Agreed that Kleiza and Barbosa should both be seeing more minutes at the wings than these two, though Kleiza can play some PF, and Barbosa can play some PG, which should free up some extra minutes. I see both receiving 20-30 mpg and putting up 8-12 PPG (based on minutes), with no more than 1-2 APG as neither are particularly talented as playmakers.

[mtcan]

I don't think anyone is overestimating what DD and Sonny can do.

We all expect them to put up better numbers than last season...and they will. Mark my words.

So Demar DeRozan averages 6.6 field goal attempts a game in 21 mpg as the 5th option in the starting line-up. Now, as the 2nd or 3rd option...you don't think he'll get the ball more often? He'll play 30+ mpg and he'll get 12+ field goal attempts at least. More shots, more touches overall, more minutes...you don't think he'll be more productive?

Do the math: he averaged 8.6 ppg last season on 49% shooting on 6.6 field goal attempts per game. If he gets 7 more shot attempts a game...makes even 3 more...that's 6 ppg more on top of his 8.6...so 14.6 ppg assuming he hasn't developed a 3 pointer and not factoring in additional free throw attempts. If he does better...it's gravy. That's my expectation and it's pretty realistic.

[mtcan]

Regarding Sonny Weems...he averaged 6.6 field goal attempts too...but in 19.8 mpg and managed to score 7.5 ppg on 51% shooting. I figure he plays 28-30 mpg. He then takes 5 more shots a game to average 11.6 field goal attempts. Assuming he makes 3 more shots...he averages 13.5 ppg. That's what we expect from him...based on last season's stats and projected stats.

Sonny and Demar could collectively average 28 ppg together...and if they could be counted on to provide about 30% of the team's scoring from the wing positions...along with 12 ppg from Jack, 22 ppg from Andrea and 8-10 ppg from Amir...that's 72 ppg from 5 of your top 9 guys. Can I count on Barbosa, Kleiza, Calderon and Davis/Reggie to provide an additional 20+ ppg? If Barbosa can give you at least 8 ppg in 20 mpg backing up Demar, Kleiza can give you 7 ppg in 25 mpg backing up the 3 and 4, Calderon scores 8 ppg and Reggie/Ed giving you 5 ppg on garbage buckets...that's 28ppg from your bench. The team could theoretically average 100 ppg...and that's putting it realistically. Real question is...can this team defend? If you can average 100 ppg...you're in most games...but you still have to stop the ball.

What we expect from the young guys is continued growth. Neither will make an all-star team...but if they put up better numbers based on increased playing time and touches alone...this team will be fine.

And who cares if we win this season? It's about grooming the young guys.

[sump]

This thread was made by VC-INJURY who is currently on your ignore list. Click here to read absolute nonsense lacking evidence.

[VC-INJURY]

This thread was made by VC-INJURY who is currently on your ignore list. Click here to read absolute nonsense lacking evidence.

I'm wondering as to why you even bother to post a response like this? If you're going to post something that is meant to counter what I said then at least post something that has some substance. You yourself didn't even provide any evidence or reasoning in your response to suggest why I might be wrong.

[ILLuMiNAUGHTY]

i think your stupid

pubic warning for insulting a poster and public warning for FAIL

What's a pubic warning?

[Undefeated]

Based on what we saw last season, neither were particularly close to being legit starting wings at the NBA level, it would take MASSIVE improvements for either one to deserve serious starters minutes.

Perhaps Sonny isn't close to being a legit starting wing, though I'd say DeMar certainly is. The only thing DeMar needs to improve sufficiently is his three-point shooting, but either than that, his skills is average to above average in other facets. One thing you want from your wing is to be able to put pressure on the defense, and DeMar is going to be able to that hence why he's somewhat of a legit starting wing. Yeah, DeMar doesn't have the playmaking skills required at SG, but that is a skill that I noticed is improving through Summer League play and will continue to improve.