Lowe: Time To Start Investing Some Real 4Q Minutes In JV

[MVP-]

It's hard to complain when you're 13-2, but I agree with the main point. If this team has aspirations of becoming a true title contender, not just a 1st/2nd round team, they need Val to develop into a great player who impacts the game over 35-40 minutes. That's not going to happen if he's playing only 20-25 minutes a game, with almost no burn in the 4th.

Amir Johnson's effect on the court in limited minutes is huge. Casey knows what he is doing. When JV is ready he will be playing.

And to everyone crying about Hayes being out there, if JJ wasn't battling through an injury we likely wouldn't be seeing much of him. JJ is a huge impact on defense but you guys would rather see JV out there getting post ups even though it's been our stellar guard play winning us games at the end.

[knickerbocker2k2]

Definitely agree that it's time to free JV in the 4th quarter. I think Suns game was a clear evidence that Casey has a bias against JV in 4th quarter. If you don't trust a guy enough in a career game, that means you have a bias that you need to break out of. I know Suns were going small but you still need one big guy in there to protect the inside and it also works both ways that he can dominate them inside especially when he's been playing so well the whole game.

Against Suns JV played the whole 3rd quarter. Hayes started the first 2 minutes in the 4th. Suns went to 3 guard / 2 F lineup, and went on 14-0 run. Casey gave Hayes a quick hook in place of JV, despite only getting 2 min rest + against small lineup. After that didn't stop the 3 point barrage, Casey did the right thing, and went small and we went on to win the game.

JV is getting plenty of minutes to develop. He basically is guaranteed ~24min per game. That is enough time for him to work on his game and improve on his weakness. Clutch time is no time to be developing players. You have to earn those minutes.

[RapsFanInOhio]

Lowe is echoing the things that some posters have been saying for weeks.

The tough shots that we're making right now are made at a lower percentage in the playoffs when an emphasis is placed on defense. Anytime you have an offensive weapon that can be effective in a playoff setting, you need him on the court in crunch time.

[SaveTheHens]

Casey's been doing good so far so just gotta put trust in the process. Obviously it would seem like a much better move to play him in the 4th, and in the Suns game I was getting frustrated that JV is killing it and benched in the 4th. But I've doubted Casey before and he's proved me wrong

[m83588333]

Casey's been doing good so far so just gotta put trust in the process. Obviously it would seem like a much better move to play him in the 4th, and in the Suns game I was getting frustrated that JV is killing it and benched in the 4th. But I've doubted Casey before and he's proved me wrong

Casey doesn't need to play JV in the fourth but last game JV got 24 Hayes 17 and Amir 28 min. Hayes should have played less than 10 and JV closer to 30. Amir closing out games is fine but if JV isn't playing the fourth he should be playing more in the third. Eventually JV and Amir need to swap minutes with Amir playing the third and JV the fourth but that isn't important.

[knickerbocker2k2]

Casey doesn't need to play JV in the fourth but last game JV got 24 Hayes 17 and Amir 28 min. Hayes should have played less than 10 and JV closer to 30. Amir closing out games is fine but if JV isn't playing the fourth he should be playing more in the third. Eventually JV and Amir need to swap minutes with Amir playing the third and JV the fourth but that isn't important.

Why should Hayes play less? The guy was +10, and the guy you want playing more was -1.

Big part of the success of this team is the 2nd unit. If you are 2nd unit is playing well, I don't see why Casey would reduce their minutes just to get one guy more minutes.

[m83588333]

Casey doesn't need to play JV in the fourth but last game JV got 24 Hayes 17 and Amir 28 min. Hayes should have played less than 10 and JV closer to 30. Amir closing out games is fine but if JV isn't playing the fourth he should be playing more in the third. Eventually JV and Amir need to swap minutes with Amir playing the third and JV the fourth but that isn't important.

Why should Hayes play less? The guy was +10, and the guy you want playing more was -1.

Big part of the success of this team is the 2nd unit. If you are 2nd unit is playing well, I don't see why Casey would reduce their minutes just to get one guy more minutes.

+/- in Basketball is stupid. Even RPM is good. Start Hayes and see the effect.

[kalel123]

Definitely agree that it's time to free JV in the 4th quarter. I think Suns game was a clear evidence that Casey has a bias against JV in 4th quarter. If you don't trust a guy enough in a career game, that means you have a bias that you need to break out of. I know Suns were going small but you still need one big guy in there to protect the inside and it also works both ways that he can dominate them inside especially when he's been playing so well the whole game.

Against Suns JV played the whole 3rd quarter. Hayes started the first 2 minutes in the 4th. Suns went to 3 guard / 2 F lineup, and went on 14-0 run. Casey gave Hayes a quick hook in place of JV, despite only getting 2 min rest + against small lineup. After that didn't stop the 3 point barrage, Casey did the right thing, and went small and we went on to win the game.

JV is getting plenty of minutes to develop. He basically is guaranteed ~24min per game. That is enough time for him to work on his game and improve on his weakness. Clutch time is no time to be developing players. You have to earn those minutes.

Getting sick and tired of earning minutes excuse. And he's in his 3rd year, saying he should be happy about being guaranteed 24+ minutes to work on his game doesn't fly any more. F*** that. He deserves to play 30+ minutes a game almost every game just based on his current talent level. At some point, you gotta man up and that applies to both sides, player and the coach. Valanciunas has done his part and it's now Casey's turn.

We won the game against Suns but at what cost? If you get yanked in the 4th despite a career game, what does that tell you about your coach as a player and the trust? What does that do to the player's psyche? Even if you ignore that, you will not win anything if you go at this on a game-by-game basis, this team is past that. At some point, you have to start looking at the big picture and be willing to sacrifice some wins if necessary. Phil Jackson was famous for this so it's not some crazy theory.

[MVP-]

Casey's been doing good so far so just gotta put trust in the process. Obviously it would seem like a much better move to play him in the 4th, and in the Suns game I was getting frustrated that JV is killing it and benched in the 4th. But I've doubted Casey before and he's proved me wrong

Casey doesn't need to play JV in the fourth but last game JV got 24 Hayes 17 and Amir 28 min. Hayes should have played less than 10 and JV closer to 30. Amir closing out games is fine but if JV isn't playing the fourth he should be playing more in the third. Eventually JV and Amir need to swap minutes with Amir playing the third and JV the fourth but that isn't important.

I'm pretty sure Casey's game plan is to have mobile defensive bigs in Amir/James to focus making defensive stops while whoever is the hottest out of the guards make most of the plays. We saw it on full display last night, Lowry with the ball in his hands making plays for either himself or making rifle passes to Amir/JJ right by the net. And this is when we are at our best. Again, once JJ is fully healthy I don't expect Hayes to play much unless we're facing a top big.

[ForeverTFC]

Amen.

[m83588333]

Casey's been doing good so far so just gotta put trust in the process. Obviously it would seem like a much better move to play him in the 4th, and in the Suns game I was getting frustrated that JV is killing it and benched in the 4th. But I've doubted Casey before and he's proved me wrong

Casey doesn't need to play JV in the fourth but last game JV got 24 Hayes 17 and Amir 28 min. Hayes should have played less than 10 and JV closer to 30. Amir closing out games is fine but if JV isn't playing the fourth he should be playing more in the third. Eventually JV and Amir need to swap minutes with Amir playing the third and JV the fourth but that isn't important.

I'm pretty sure Casey's game plan is to have mobile defensive bigs in Amir/James to focus making defensive stops while whoever is the hottest out of the guards make most of the plays. We saw it on full display last night, Lowry with the ball in his hands making plays for either himself or making rifle passes to Amir/JJ right by the net. And this is when we are at our best. Again, once JJ is fully healthy I don't expect Hayes to play much unless we're facing a top big.

The fourth quarter isnt the issue. But Hayes minutes are. 17 minutes to Hayes doesn't equate to mobile big. Fields makes more sense than Hayes against the Suns or Atlanta.

[ant171717]

Once JV reaches his prime form, we gonna be GOOOOOD.

[Mahoner]

There can always be a spun argument to not have JV (or even Terrence Ross) in the 4th quarter - bad matchup, small ball, close game.... Okay. Well when we need them - both of them - to come up big in the playoffs when the pressure is 10x greater and their only experience is a handful of games, I hope nobody's complaining when they have unforced turnovers. How quick are some people to forget having Hayes throwing up those garbage rim shots in the 4th of Game 7. I'm not saying every game from now but if Casey truly believes that it's a learning process then the time to start learning is now and NOT the 1st round of the playoffs.

[OvertimeNO]

There can always be a spun argument to not have JV (or even Terrence Ross) in the 4th quarter - bad matchup, small ball, close game.... Okay. Well when we need them - both of them - to come up big in the playoffs when the pressure is 10x greater and their only experience is a handful of games, I hope nobody's complaining when they have unforced turnovers. How quick are some people to forget having Hayes throwing up those garbage rim shots in the 4th of Game 7. I'm not saying every game from now but if Casey truly believes that it's a learning process then the time to start learning is now and NOT the 1st round of the playoffs.

You mean the 15 games the Raptors have played thus far will be indicative of the entire season?

IT IS NOVEMBER. At least let's wait until the All-Star game before we start complaining about minutes that nobody has played yet.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

You also give up defensive rebounds when you go small. An Oreb is the same as a turnover. When teams jack up shots and miss and get the OReb they will eventually hit the three. Good teams late score high % low post twos and limit teams to single possessions as much as possible. Last 4 minutes no OReb or TO and Low Post 2s eating the clock.

And yet, the Raps DREB% is higher (75.1%) in the 4th quarter than it is overall (73.1%) so attempting to use this as an argument in relation to a "Casey is sacrificing rebounds with Val on the bench in the 4th" isn't the case. At least not for this season to date.

[m83588333]

You also give up defensive rebounds when you go small. An Oreb is the same as a turnover. When teams jack up shots and miss and get the OReb they will eventually hit the three. Good teams late score high % low post twos and limit teams to single possessions as much as possible. Last 4 minutes no OReb or TO and Low Post 2s eating the clock.

And yet, the Raps DREB% is higher (75.1%) in the 4th quarter than it is overall (73.1%) so attempting to use this as an argument in relation to a "Casey is sacrificing rebounds with Val on the bench in the 4th" isn't the case. At least not for this season to date.

Amir is in fourth quarter. This has to do with Hayes over JV.

[hound101]

Regardless of which side you stand on, I don't think anyone's in a position to question Casey right now. We're 13-2.

Why? Every coach and player should always be subject to criticism. No coach or player is ever perfect. Casey has been very good for the most part. But there is always things that he can improve on. Agree the last two games, Jonas should have sat. However, for this team to succeed in the long-term, Jonas has to play some minutes.

I also remembered you were pressing for his firing throughout all of last season. Why the sudden 180 degree change?

Casey is Mark Jackson. Stupid lineups and rotations and WTF moments. Kerr has GSW looking unstoppable.

Stephen Curry

[OvertimeNO]

You also give up defensive rebounds when you go small. An Oreb is the same as a turnover. When teams jack up shots and miss and get the OReb they will eventually hit the three. Good teams late score high % low post twos and limit teams to single possessions as much as possible. Last 4 minutes no OReb or TO and Low Post 2s eating the clock.

And yet, the Raps DREB% is higher (75.1%) in the 4th quarter than it is overall (73.1%) so attempting to use this as an argument in relation to a "Casey is sacrificing rebounds with Val on the bench in the 4th" isn't the case. At least not for this season to date.

What you fail to realize is that if JV were in, our DREB% would be over 9000.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Amir is in fourth quarter. This has to do with Hayes over JV.

Hayes plays with the second unit in the 2nd, in the 3rd and to start the 4th like most backup role playing big men do. Most coaches have their standard minute distribution and rotations in order to keep a role players job consistent. Many coaches do this in order to maintain a players role, so just because Hans goes down, doesn't mean you crank up JV's minutes, instead you re-distribute to Hayes.

FWIW:

1st q: 8.6mpg (Lowry and DD only players to log more minutes in the 1st q)
2nd q: 5.9mpg (Lowry and DD only starters to log more, 2nd unit time)
3rd q: 8.1mpg (Lowry and DD only players to log more minutes)
4th q: 4.1mpg (lowest of all the starters)

The averages add up to more than his game averages as it only considers quarters he's stepped on the floor to calculate the average.

Outside of the 4th, I don't see where you could get him any extra burn based upon his current minute distribution and conditioning.

[team edward]

Thanks Mr. Lowe but I will trust Coach Casey on this one. 13-2.