Thank Nation! Raps pick 9th - Draft on June 23rd 8pm (Part 7)

[arbsn]

Right now I'm thinking... If one of the consensus top 8 are on the board you take him. If not, either trade the pick or gamble on a high upside guy (like Scal or Deyonta Davis)

[OAKLEY_2]

Right now I'm thinking... If one of the consensus top 8 are on the board you take him. If not, either trade the pick or gamble on a high upside guy (like Scal or Deyonta Davis)

Don't gamble. Someone is going to like a player better than you do but luckily you have the selection to make their dreams come true. Kaching.

[raptor jesus]

^^ Yeah I like Zagorac (that shamgod at 3:50) and Zipser as wing options at 27, along w/ Mccaw.

[Duffman100]

Kewl, but none of those guys were seen as big time prospects either, hence why I used them as examples. They were all selected around our current draft slot.

They also all had something ELITE about them whether it was size/measurements or athleticism (Drummond, PG) or scoring ability (Steph, CJ and PG).

There is nothing elite about Poeltl. You're grasping at straws and comparing apples to oranges.

Again, you're totally missing the point. This isn't about Poeltl. It's about overlooking players based on position. You used the same logic to dispel Baldwin. Not liking those guys as prospects is fine, of course, but basing your opposition solely on the fact that the Raptors already have better players than them at the moment is folly. I mean, come to the table with something substantive, like "I'm concerned about Poeltl's toughness, his declining block %, or his FT improvement could be unsustainable"...

I had the same argument with him in another thread. He won't get it.

[OAKLEY_2]

^^ Yeah I like Zagorac (that shamgod at 3:50) and Zipser as wing options at 27, along w/ Mccaw.

Zipser's motor blew me away.

[fame]

I'm just wondering for all the people advocating picking Poeltl why we would waste our lottery pick on a back up C when we could easily nab AJ Hammons with the #27 if need be and he projects better in nearly every category per 40?!

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jakob-poeltl-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/aj-hammons-1.html

I don't get all this "backup" nonsense. Here are some conversations that I'm guessing never took place.

"Let's not take Paul George because he's just gonna back up Danny Granger"
"Let's not take CJ Mccollum because he's just gonna back up Wes Matthews"
"Let's not take Stephen Curry because he's just gonna back up Monta Ellis"
"Let's not take Andre Drummond because he's just gonna back up Greg Monroe"

It's exactly that line of thinking that led to us missing out on another great center, one of which we could have flipped for a big piece at some point. No, I'm not saying Poeltl is going to be the same calibre of player, just dispelling that flawed logic.

Except that Poeltl is nowhere near the caliber of the names you're mentioning and WOULD be our back up C hence the conversation. Throwing out random and FAR superior players names doesn't solidify your point but weakens it because there's reason no one would say that BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SUPERIOR PLAYER lol Poeltl would be the inferior or in other words the back up. The flawed logic is taking the back up C when there are host of other players of equal calibre and if not better.

But better luck next time...

That's your assumption...I'm willing to bet if we went back and scoured the draft threads of those years there would be comments like "I want no part of Curry, he's too small and will be a liability on D." Or that Curry has a "low ceiling". That McCollum is the typical chucking combo guard and so on.

Who's to say Poeltl won't be a star? I know it's unlikely but it is possible and you truly never know. All I know is that he's a 20 year old center with excellent length and size who dominated at every level he's played in and has shown proven results! Something guys like Skal who is not bigger, nor longer, and just barely younger has done at all.

Poeltl has the highest PER (Player efficiency rating) in the draft. That typically is very telling of a players skill. Especially if a player is either a freshman or sophomore! Since the top part of the PER leaders tend to be seniors or superstars.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Kewl, but none of those guys were seen as big time prospects either, hence why I used them as examples. They were all selected around our current draft slot.

They also all had something ELITE about them whether it was size/measurements or athleticism (Drummond, PG) or scoring ability (Steph, CJ and PG).

There is nothing elite about Poeltl. You're grasping at straws and comparing apples to oranges.

Again, you're totally missing the point. This isn't about Poeltl. It's about overlooking players based on position. You used the same logic to dispel Baldwin. Not liking those guys as prospects is fine, of course, but basing your opposition solely on the fact that the Raptors already have better players than them at the moment is folly. I mean, come to the table with something substantive, like "I'm concerned about Poeltl's toughness, his declining block %, or his FT improvement could be unsustainable"...

No you're missing the point or don't know what my post is in reference to....

I am saying I don't want to pick Poeltl with the intention as a back up IN RESPONSE to the multiple posters that have said to draft him as such (go read the multiple threads). THEIR logic (not mine) is that they would like to take him to act as insurance for losing Biz as the BACK UP. I also oppose it because he projects to be a role player which is why squashed your comparison to those all-star (CJ being all-star calibre) players and explained as such why it was a horrible comparison BECAUSE they have ELITE attributes Poeltl does not. So it's a good a way to say I don't want to draft a back up calibre player or in other words a role player and if you read any of my thousand posts in these draft threads you could see me talk about that ad nauseam and how I want to try and find a player with all-star potential.

I could care less who's starting on our team if who we draft has the POTENTIAL hence the Furkan (SG) sig

Poeltl just projects as back up, role player or however you would like to word a non-star calibre player lol but that was my point and that is why I wouldn't waste the pick on him.

[Clutch Carter]

Tired of seeing the "trade Ross" BS. He has way more value than a low-end lottery player in a historically weak draft. How many players with Ross' skillset are available in free agency or this draft? I guess Buddy Hield is an approximation but he's inferior on both ends and could go as high as 3. At least Ross can actually create a shot for himself occasionally, get stops sometimes, and shoot quickly off screens. Hield is a spot-up set shooter with a low release who needs a ton of airspace, and he's a turnstile on D.

i disagree, i have given up on ross. the guy avg what like 5 pts in the post-season and way under his regular %. he can defend at times sure but, other times he looks so uninspired and coasts. he prob from the beginning had more potential then anyone we could draft at 9 with his athleticism and 3pt shot. unfortunately, his iq and mentality is piss poor.

and to say that hield is a lesser player is crazy. i can guarantee not one team in the 3-6 range would give up that pick for ross.

Seriously, time to move on with Ross. Don't even care if he breaks out somewhere else, I'm fine with that, its not working here.

[TheGoodDoctor]

I don't get all this "backup" nonsense. Here are some conversations that I'm guessing never took place.

"Let's not take Paul George because he's just gonna back up Danny Granger"
"Let's not take CJ Mccollum because he's just gonna back up Wes Matthews"
"Let's not take Stephen Curry because he's just gonna back up Monta Ellis"
"Let's not take Andre Drummond because he's just gonna back up Greg Monroe"

It's exactly that line of thinking that led to us missing out on another great center, one of which we could have flipped for a big piece at some point. No, I'm not saying Poeltl is going to be the same calibre of player, just dispelling that flawed logic.

Except that Poeltl is nowhere near the caliber of the names you're mentioning and WOULD be our back up C hence the conversation. Throwing out random and FAR superior players names doesn't solidify your point but weakens it because there's reason no one would say that BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SUPERIOR PLAYER lol Poeltl would be the inferior or in other words the back up. The flawed logic is taking the back up C when there are host of other players of equal calibre and if not better.

But better luck next time...

That's your assumption...I'm willing to bet if we went back and scoured the draft threads of those years there would be comments like "I want no part of Curry, he's too small and will be a liability on D." Or that Curry has a "low ceiling". That McCollum is the typical chucking combo guard and so on.

Who's to say Poeltl won't be a star? I know it's unlikely but it is possible and you truly never know. All I know is that he's a 20 year old center with excellent length and size who dominated at every level he's played in and has shown proven results! Something guys like Skal who is not bigger, nor longer, and just barely younger has done at all.

Poeltl has the highest PER (Player efficiency rating) in the draft. That typically is very telling of a players skill. Especially if a player is either a freshman or sophomore! Since the top part of the PER leaders tend to be seniors or superstars.

It certainly is my assumption and I am more than prepared to bet on it and I also went over this already with comparing him to Curry, CJ, Drummond etc. The BIG difference with them versus Poeltl is they had some ELITE quality about them; whether it was scoring, size or athleticism, Jakob is not considered elite in any regard.

I don't need to be explained his PER because I never said he can't be a solid player or won't be, I just said he projects to be a role player/back up so I don't want him and the comparison to those guys was a terrible one for the reason I just stated. If he turns out to be a starter, wonderful, but that's not what I'm looking for in the draft. There are many players that had great PERs that haven't turned out to be anything in the league but they're usually a good indicator of being a major part of the success of a winning team o that's good obviously but again I'm looking for more. But regardless of "PERs" if you look at the all-stars in this league the vast majority over the years have and did have something elite about themselves in one way or another, most of those guys are elite athletes, elite scorers, shooters or defenders and were even when they were his age at the collegiate level. There are very few exceptions unless you're talking about a team leader with great intangibles like Green or Lowry. Again I don't see any where that Poeltl fits into that equation.

[raptor jesus]

Except that Poeltl is nowhere near the caliber of the names you're mentioning and WOULD be our back up C hence the conversation. Throwing out random and FAR superior players names doesn't solidify your point but weakens it because there's reason no one would say that BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SUPERIOR PLAYER lol Poeltl would be the inferior or in other words the back up. The flawed logic is taking the back up C when there are host of other players of equal calibre and if not better.

But better luck next time...

That's your assumption...I'm willing to bet if we went back and scoured the draft threads of those years there would be comments like "I want no part of Curry, he's too small and will be a liability on D." Or that Curry has a "low ceiling". That McCollum is the typical chucking combo guard and so on.

Who's to say Poeltl won't be a star? I know it's unlikely but it is possible and you truly never know. All I know is that he's a 20 year old center with excellent length and size who dominated at every level he's played in and has shown proven results! Something guys like Skal who is not bigger, nor longer, and just barely younger has done at all.

Poeltl has the highest PER (Player efficiency rating) in the draft. That typically is very telling of a players skill. Especially if a player is either a freshman or sophomore! Since the top part of the PER leaders tend to be seniors or superstars.

It certainly is my assumption and I am more than prepared to bet on it and I also went over this already with comparing him to Curry, CJ, Drummond etc. The BIG difference with them versus Poeltl is they had some ELITE quality about them; whether it was scoring, size or athleticism, Jakob is not considered elite in any regard.

I don't need to be explained his PER because I never said he can't be a solid player or won't be, I just said he projects to be a role player so I don't want him and the comparison to those guys was a terrible one for the reason I just stated. There are many players that had great PERs that haven't turned out to be anything in the league but they're usually a good indicator of being a major part of the success of a winning team. But regardless of "PERs" if you look at the all-stars in this league the vast majority over the years have and did have something elite about themselves in one way or another, most of those guys are elite athletes or elite scorers. There are very few exceptions unless you're talking about a team leader with great intangibles like Green or Lowry. Again I don't see any where that Poeltl fits into that equation.

You're taking those examples too literally, but for the sake of argument all those guys had big question marks. People thought Curry was too unathletic, didn't have a position; there were doubts Drummond could even learn an NBA playbook; CJ was coming off a major injury and played in a small conference, etc. These guys were far from sure things. It's easy to look back and assume otherwise based on how good they became, but that's just not the case.

[DrCoach]

I don't get all this "backup" nonsense. Here are some conversations that I'm guessing never took place.

"Let's not take Paul George because he's just gonna back up Danny Granger"
"Let's not take CJ Mccollum because he's just gonna back up Wes Matthews"
"Let's not take Stephen Curry because he's just gonna back up Monta Ellis"
"Let's not take Andre Drummond because he's just gonna back up Greg Monroe"

It's exactly that line of thinking that led to us missing out on another great center, one of which we could have flipped for a big piece at some point. No, I'm not saying Poeltl is going to be the same calibre of player, just dispelling that flawed logic.

Except that Poeltl is nowhere near the caliber of the names you're mentioning and WOULD be our back up C hence the conversation. Throwing out random and FAR superior players names doesn't solidify your point but weakens it because there's reason no one would say that BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SUPERIOR PLAYER lol Poeltl would be the inferior or in other words the back up. The flawed logic is taking the back up C when there are host of other players of equal calibre and if not better.

But better luck next time...

That's your assumption...I'm willing to bet if we went back and scoured the draft threads of those years there would be comments like "I want no part of Curry, he's too small and will be a liability on D." Or that Curry has a "low ceiling". That McCollum is the typical chucking combo guard and so on.

Who's to say Poeltl won't be a star? I know it's unlikely but it is possible and you truly never know. All I know is that he's a 20 year old center with excellent length and size who dominated at every level he's played in and has shown proven results! Something guys like Skal who is not bigger, nor longer, and just barely younger has done at all.

Poeltl has the highest PER (Player efficiency rating) in the draft. That typically is very telling of a players skill. Especially if a player is either a freshman or sophomore! Since the top part of the PER leaders tend to be seniors or superstars.

I like Poeltl too, but for the record, he doesn't have the highest PER, 3rd or 4th off th top of my head. Highest of any of the lotto guys thou

[Risk101]

Give this guy a D-League spot and lets see what happens.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk6xhNXpiUY[/youtube]

[fame]

Except that Poeltl is nowhere near the caliber of the names you're mentioning and WOULD be our back up C hence the conversation. Throwing out random and FAR superior players names doesn't solidify your point but weakens it because there's reason no one would say that BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SUPERIOR PLAYER lol Poeltl would be the inferior or in other words the back up. The flawed logic is taking the back up C when there are host of other players of equal calibre and if not better.

But better luck next time...

That's your assumption...I'm willing to bet if we went back and scoured the draft threads of those years there would be comments like "I want no part of Curry, he's too small and will be a liability on D." Or that Curry has a "low ceiling". That McCollum is the typical chucking combo guard and so on.

Who's to say Poeltl won't be a star? I know it's unlikely but it is possible and you truly never know. All I know is that he's a 20 year old center with excellent length and size who dominated at every level he's played in and has shown proven results! Something guys like Skal who is not bigger, nor longer, and just barely younger has done at all.

Poeltl has the highest PER (Player efficiency rating) in the draft. That typically is very telling of a players skill. Especially if a player is either a freshman or sophomore! Since the top part of the PER leaders tend to be seniors or superstars.

It certainly is my assumption and I am more than prepared to bet on it and I also went over this already with comparing him to Curry, CJ, Drummond etc. The BIG difference with them versus Poeltl is they had some ELITE quality about them; whether it was scoring, size or athleticism, Jakob is not considered elite in any regard.

I don't need to be explained his PER because I never said he can't be a solid player or won't be, I just said he projects to be a role player/back up so I don't want him and the comparison to those guys was a terrible one for the reason I just stated. If he turns out to be a starter, wonderful, but that's not what I'm looking for in the draft. There are many players that had great PERs that haven't turned out to be anything in the league but they're usually a good indicator of being a major part of the success of a winning team o that's good obviously but again I'm looking for more. But regardless of "PERs" if you look at the all-stars in this league the vast majority over the years have and did have something elite about themselves in one way or another, most of those guys are elite athletes, elite scorers, shooters or defenders and were even when they were his age at the collegiate level. There are very few exceptions unless you're talking about a team leader with great intangibles like Green or Lowry. Again I don't see any where that Poeltl fits into that equation.

I disagree, I think he's shown elite scoring capabilities, efficiency, rebounding and size. He has great agility and footwork for a guy that's 7'1.

He could end up being a roleplayer like you said but my personal opinion is that he will be more. He has better qualities than pretty much anybody in our range unless someone drops.

Furkan is the only one I would think about taking over him unless someone drops.

[TheGoodDoctor]

That's your assumption...I'm willing to bet if we went back and scoured the draft threads of those years there would be comments like "I want no part of Curry, he's too small and will be a liability on D." Or that Curry has a "low ceiling". That McCollum is the typical chucking combo guard and so on.

Who's to say Poeltl won't be a star? I know it's unlikely but it is possible and you truly never know. All I know is that he's a 20 year old center with excellent length and size who dominated at every level he's played in and has shown proven results! Something guys like Skal who is not bigger, nor longer, and just barely younger has done at all.

Poeltl has the highest PER (Player efficiency rating) in the draft. That typically is very telling of a players skill. Especially if a player is either a freshman or sophomore! Since the top part of the PER leaders tend to be seniors or superstars.

It certainly is my assumption and I am more than prepared to bet on it and I also went over this already with comparing him to Curry, CJ, Drummond etc. The BIG difference with them versus Poeltl is they had some ELITE quality about them; whether it was scoring, size or athleticism, Jakob is not considered elite in any regard.

I don't need to be explained his PER because I never said he can't be a solid player or won't be, I just said he projects to be a role player so I don't want him and the comparison to those guys was a terrible one for the reason I just stated. There are many players that had great PERs that haven't turned out to be anything in the league but they're usually a good indicator of being a major part of the success of a winning team. But regardless of "PERs" if you look at the all-stars in this league the vast majority over the years have and did have something elite about themselves in one way or another, most of those guys are elite athletes or elite scorers. There are very few exceptions unless you're talking about a team leader with great intangibles like Green or Lowry. Again I don't see any where that Poeltl fits into that equation.

You're taking those examples too literally, but for the sake of argument all those guys had big question marks. People thought Curry was too unathletic, didn't have a position; there were doubts Drummond could even learn an NBA playbook; CJ was coming off a major injury and played in a small conference, etc. These guys were far from sure things. It's easy to look back and assume otherwise based on how good they became, but that's just not the case.

You have no debate from me that those guys had question marks which exactly how they fall out of the top 5 BUT again despite those doubts or question marks, they had some sort of elite attribute about themselves....Poeltl does not which pretty firmly projects him to be a role player which is again why I don't want him.

If he somehow defies the odds I'll be glad to eat crow but as I previously stated the vast majority of all-stars had some elite attribute unless you have you're a Mr. Intangibles/leader on a great team like DG or KL. I can't see JP falling into ANY of those categories. Which is why I much rather role the dice on a player with elite athleticism like a Chriss preferably (just don't have him as a sig because they keep mentioning his name higher) or scorer/shooter like Furkan.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Give this guy a D-League spot and lets see what happens.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk6xhNXpiUY[/youtube]

He is in the D-League. I posted about him in the trade/transactions thread a few months ago.

[TheGoodDoctor]

That's your assumption...I'm willing to bet if we went back and scoured the draft threads of those years there would be comments like "I want no part of Curry, he's too small and will be a liability on D." Or that Curry has a "low ceiling". That McCollum is the typical chucking combo guard and so on.

Who's to say Poeltl won't be a star? I know it's unlikely but it is possible and you truly never know. All I know is that he's a 20 year old center with excellent length and size who dominated at every level he's played in and has shown proven results! Something guys like Skal who is not bigger, nor longer, and just barely younger has done at all.

Poeltl has the highest PER (Player efficiency rating) in the draft. That typically is very telling of a players skill. Especially if a player is either a freshman or sophomore! Since the top part of the PER leaders tend to be seniors or superstars.

It certainly is my assumption and I am more than prepared to bet on it and I also went over this already with comparing him to Curry, CJ, Drummond etc. The BIG difference with them versus Poeltl is they had some ELITE quality about them; whether it was scoring, size or athleticism, Jakob is not considered elite in any regard.

I don't need to be explained his PER because I never said he can't be a solid player or won't be, I just said he projects to be a role player/back up so I don't want him and the comparison to those guys was a terrible one for the reason I just stated. If he turns out to be a starter, wonderful, but that's not what I'm looking for in the draft. There are many players that had great PERs that haven't turned out to be anything in the league but they're usually a good indicator of being a major part of the success of a winning team o that's good obviously but again I'm looking for more. But regardless of "PERs" if you look at the all-stars in this league the vast majority over the years have and did have something elite about themselves in one way or another, most of those guys are elite athletes, elite scorers, shooters or defenders and were even when they were his age at the collegiate level. There are very few exceptions unless you're talking about a team leader with great intangibles like Green or Lowry. Again I don't see any where that Poeltl fits into that equation.

I disagree, I think he's shown elite scoring capabilities, efficiency, rebounding and size. He has great agility and footwork for a guy that's 7'1.

He could end up being a roleplayer like you said but my personal opinion is that he will be more. He has better qualities than pretty much anybody in our range unless someone drops.

Furkan is the only one I would think about taking over him unless someone drops.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree and don't get me wrong I think Poelt is going be a solid pro as I do Sabonis and Prince. I just don't see any elite attribute about any of them so I'm very confident in my prediction of them being role players but you're definitely free to think otherwish.

Anyways I'm sure you're growing tired of this debate as am I sooooo this discussion even makes me think who is that player that was an elite scorer that is flying under the radar or is it just Kork and Felder?!?

[raptor jesus]

It certainly is my assumption and I am more than prepared to bet on it and I also went over this already with comparing him to Curry, CJ, Drummond etc. The BIG difference with them versus Poeltl is they had some ELITE quality about them; whether it was scoring, size or athleticism, Jakob is not considered elite in any regard.

I don't need to be explained his PER because I never said he can't be a solid player or won't be, I just said he projects to be a role player so I don't want him and the comparison to those guys was a terrible one for the reason I just stated. There are many players that had great PERs that haven't turned out to be anything in the league but they're usually a good indicator of being a major part of the success of a winning team. But regardless of "PERs" if you look at the all-stars in this league the vast majority over the years have and did have something elite about themselves in one way or another, most of those guys are elite athletes or elite scorers. There are very few exceptions unless you're talking about a team leader with great intangibles like Green or Lowry. Again I don't see any where that Poeltl fits into that equation.

You're taking those examples too literally, but for the sake of argument all those guys had big question marks. People thought Curry was too unathletic, didn't have a position; there were doubts Drummond could even learn an NBA playbook; CJ was coming off a major injury and played in a small conference, etc. These guys were far from sure things. It's easy to look back and assume otherwise based on how good they became, but that's just not the case.

You have no debate from me that those guys had question marks which exactly how they fall out of the top 5 BUT again despite those doubts or question marks, they had some sort of elite attribute about themselves....Poeltl does not which pretty firmly projects him to be a role player which is again why I don't want him.

If he somehow defies the odds I'll be glad to eat crow but as I previously stated the vast majority of all-stars had some elite attribute unless you have you're a Mr. Intangibles/leader on a great team like DG or KL. I can't see JP falling into ANY of those categories. Which is why I much rather role the dice on a player with elite athleticism like a Chriss preferably (just don't have him as a sig because they keep mentioning his name higher) or scorer/shooter like Furkan.

Fair enough. That's basically my concern, too, that's he's a jack of all trades/master of none. I would contend that his combination of height (7'1), standing reach (9'3 - I believe it was corrected recently but DX still has it wrong at 8'9) and his fluidity is special. But I can see why somebody looking for a ceiling is wary of him. FWIW, I really like Furkan as well, and would probably opt for him over Poeltl.

[Risk101]

Give this guy a D-League spot and lets see what happens.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk6xhNXpiUY[/youtube]

He is in the D-League. I posted about him in the trade/transactions thread a few months ago.

I'm talking about testing him out on our 905 team or better yet giving him a summer league spot.

[Mikistan]

They also all had something ELITE about them whether it was size/measurements or athleticism (Drummond, PG) or scoring ability (Steph, CJ and PG).

There is nothing elite about Poeltl. You're grasping at straws and comparing apples to oranges.

Again, you're totally missing the point. This isn't about Poeltl. It's about overlooking players based on position. You used the same logic to dispel Baldwin. Not liking those guys as prospects is fine, of course, but basing your opposition solely on the fact that the Raptors already have better players than them at the moment is folly. I mean, come to the table with something substantive, like "I'm concerned about Poeltl's toughness, his declining block %, or his FT improvement could be unsustainable"...

I had the same argument with him in another thread. He won't get it.

We can talk about talent in a vacuum in terms of BPA all night - but half the equation of a star is the talent - the other half is the situation. Delon Wright might be the next superstar, but we won't know it until he gets minutes.

If Poeltl has a 20% chance at being a star but is stuck behind biyombo, JV, patpat, bebe and whatever 15-man masai signs that Casey overplays it will take 20 years to see his potential.

But if we draft a kid, slot him right into the starting PF role in the luis scola 6 minutes every first and third quarter to "develop" and have an easier time playing as the 5th option on the starting lineup doing the "little things" and "taking what the defense gives him" then even at a 15% superstar chance the minutes and role develop him faster and have a higher likelihood of succeeding.

Couple that with the expectations of coming off the best season in franchise history & the need to continue success until Masai gets a contract extension, the tradeoff ratio between short-term impact:absolute BPA drafting shifts.

[TheGoodDoctor]

You're taking those examples too literally, but for the sake of argument all those guys had big question marks. People thought Curry was too unathletic, didn't have a position; there were doubts Drummond could even learn an NBA playbook; CJ was coming off a major injury and played in a small conference, etc. These guys were far from sure things. It's easy to look back and assume otherwise based on how good they became, but that's just not the case.

You have no debate from me that those guys had question marks which exactly how they fall out of the top 5 BUT again despite those doubts or question marks, they had some sort of elite attribute about themselves....Poeltl does not which pretty firmly projects him to be a role player which is again why I don't want him.

If he somehow defies the odds I'll be glad to eat crow but as I previously stated the vast majority of all-stars had some elite attribute unless you have you're a Mr. Intangibles/leader on a great team like DG or KL. I can't see JP falling into ANY of those categories. Which is why I much rather role the dice on a player with elite athleticism like a Chriss preferably (just don't have him as a sig because they keep mentioning his name higher) or scorer/shooter like Furkan.

Fair enough. That's basically my concern, too, that's he's a jack of all trades/master of none. I would contend that his combination of height (7'1), standing reach (9'3 - I believe it was corrected recently but DX still has it wrong at 8'9) and his fluidity is special. But I can see why somebody looking for a ceiling is wary of him. FWIW, I really like Furkan as well, and would probably opt for him over Poeltl.

Of course you would like Korkmaz....he does look like a Raptor Jesus lol