Kyle Lowry might see Spurs as an alternative option, would that make sense for him?

[Rapcity_11]

Lowry is NOT going to the Spurs this off season in a David West type move. He won't leave 10s of millions on the table.... so the only way SA can make it happen is if they significantly gut their team.

All they really have to do is get rid of Parker. I wouldn't call that significantly gutting their team.

So they are going to cut one of their franchise icons and Lowry is going to agree to sign for 14.5 per

Nope.

I don't expect them to do it. The point is they wouldn't have to "significantly gut their team".

Also, they'd have a lot more than 14.5M to spend.

Currently $73M guaranteed for next year. Take off Parker's $15.5M and add Gasol's $16.2M player option and you get ~$74M. With an $100M+ cap, there's lots of room to pay Lowry.

[Jonn]

Then what the hell are you worried about. I guess it will go from winning to sucking and you'll be happy.

I would rather lose and hope to get lucky by drafting a Superstar than get locked into a mediocre team that will never be good enough to win anything important. If you can't acquire another significant piece to put yourself in position to beat the Cavs you get out and start over. Signing Lowry long term would be a massive mistake without adding a Cousins type player.

I don't understand why there are still people who believe this flawed thinking.

1. Losing Lowry will not make the Raptors bad enough to get a top 3 pick
2. Losing Lowry is guaranteed to put us in a treadmill position as we are a young talented team now without its leader and best player and no way to replace him because we are capped out.
3. Even if you get a top 3 pick, it is still very unlikely you get a superstar player
4. There are many teams that have drafted "superstars" but did not have the surrounding talent or system/culture to take them far (Cousins, George, Chris Paul in Cha, Antony Davis, Carmelo)
5. Even when you pull off the perfect tank like OKC of getting 3 superstar players in 3 consecutive years it is no guarantee of anything

Tanking/starting over type talk really needs to stop. There are some teams this applies to like the Mavs, Heat and Nets. But kids who are used to playing video games and just hitting restart when they aren't winning do not live in reality and think that 28 of 30 NBA franchises should be tanking.

The point is the current core is not good enough to win. Trying to insult my intelligence is not making your point. It's making you look like a dbag. I'm not comfortable locking up Lowry to a massive deal if the team around him isn't addressed. Signing him will eliminate all possible flexibility. And everyone has been waiting for Masai to do something about it. We had flexibility last year he decided to stay pat. It's time to make a move.

[MavCarter]

Yeah i don't want to tank. There's a better chance you tank and draft an avg starter level player than an actual superstar. You pretty much have to luck into a superstar in this league. 5 years of tanking could very well put us back in the same situation we're in right now. The organization has started to shift its identity i don't want to go back to being that **** irrelevant franchise

[Jonn]

I don't even want to tank. I used that as an example because I don't want to one of those teams that have high priced players but no chance of success. Winning is fun. But the reality is you have to actually try to be the best team. Take a chance. Take some risks.

[LastNameEver]

I don't even want to tank. I used that as an example because I don't want to one of those teams that have high priced players but no chance of success. Winning is fun. But the reality is you have to actually try to be the best team. Take a chance. Take some risks.

Its not like we're the brooklyn nets with over the hill KG, Pierce and JJ..

We got 2 max guys in their prime, and everybody else signed under the old CBA cap. It could be a lot worse. We're in a position similar to MEM.

[Skeezo]

Love Lowry and certainly want him to stay but forget 5 years and forget Max dollars... Not even close... This isn't the same DeRozan Max we are talking about here... Lowry is a 10-year Vet, no way we are paying him 35% of a 90m cap with raises over 4-5 years.... And I'll be shocked if any other team with that type of space will actually ball up and offer it to him... Who's got 31m in open cap space next year, after everyone blew their loads this year and willing to spend it on a 31-year-old PG?

Teams that will have space for a max salary in 2017
PHI
BOS
DAL (if they do not exercise Dirk's team option)
BKN
PHX

I can see all of these teams offering Lowry the max with BC, Cuban and Ainge all targeting Kyle. If Toronto doesn't offer Kyle the max, he will be the best free agent on the market with Curry, KD, Griffin, Paul likely getting max offers at 12:01 to stay with their teams.

Philly... BC might be dumb enough to offer it even though it makes no sense. Kyle is a win now player and Philly is nowhere near.
Dallas... They are going into rebuild mode, you don't start your rebuild by going after a 31-year-old PG... again, doubtful
BKN... Kyle still wants to win, right? Sometimes you sacrifice dollars to do that
PHX... They already have Bledsoe and Knight at PG
BOS... Only legit option that Kyle might consider, but again does Boston not have enough guards under 6'2 (I.Thomas, Bradley)

My stance remains, there is no need to be offering Lowry a 35% Max contract... 4 years at Demar money should be more than sufficient.

[Gold Dragon]

I would rather lose and hope to get lucky by drafting a Superstar than get locked into a mediocre team that will never be good enough to win anything important. If you can't acquire another significant piece to put yourself in position to beat the Cavs you get out and start over. Signing Lowry long term would be a massive mistake without adding a Cousins type player.

I don't understand why there are still people who believe this flawed thinking.

1. Losing Lowry will not make the Raptors bad enough to get a top 3 pick
2. Losing Lowry is guaranteed to put us in a treadmill position as we are a young talented team now without its leader and best player and no way to replace him because we are capped out.
3. Even if you get a top 3 pick, it is still very unlikely you get a superstar player
4. There are many teams that have drafted "superstars" but did not have the surrounding talent or system/culture to take them far (Cousins, George, Chris Paul in Cha, Antony Davis, Carmelo)
5. Even when you pull off the perfect tank like OKC of getting 3 superstar players in 3 consecutive years it is no guarantee of anything

Tanking/starting over type talk really needs to stop. There are some teams this applies to like the Mavs, Heat and Nets. But kids who are used to playing video games and just hitting restart when they aren't winning do not live in reality and think that 28 of 30 NBA franchises should be tanking.

The point is the current core is not good enough to win. Trying to insult my intelligence is not making your point. It's making you look like a dbag. I'm not comfortable locking up Lowry to a massive deal if the team around him isn't addressed. Signing him will eliminate all possible flexibility. And everyone has been waiting for Masai to do something about it. We had flexibility last year he decided to stay pat. It's time to make a move.

Then you do not understand the salary cap. There is no flexibility gained by not signing Lowry. We are pretty much at the salary cap whether Lowry is signed or not. If you want flexibility, the best thing to do is to resign Lowry and then trade him.

Your initial post was talking about drafting a superstar. I'm not sure how one does that by going from #25 to #17 in the draft. That is the "flexibility" you will get by not resigning Lowry and not tanking.

[Gold Dragon]

Love Lowry and certainly want him to stay but forget 5 years and forget Max dollars... Not even close... This isn't the same DeRozan Max we are talking about here... Lowry is a 10-year Vet, no way we are paying him 35% of a 90m cap with raises over 4-5 years.... And I'll be shocked if any other team with that type of space will actually ball up and offer it to him... Who's got 31m in open cap space next year, after everyone blew their loads this year and willing to spend it on a 31-year-old PG?

Teams that will have space for a max salary in 2017
PHI
BOS
DAL (if they do not exercise Dirk's team option)
BKN
PHX

I can see all of these teams offering Lowry the max with BC, Cuban and Ainge all targeting Kyle. If Toronto doesn't offer Kyle the max, he will be the best free agent on the market with Curry, KD, Griffin, Paul likely getting max offers at 12:01 to stay with their teams.

Philly... BC might be dumb enough to offer it even though it makes no sense. Kyle is a win now player and Philly is nowhere near.
Dallas... They are going into rebuild mode, you don't start your rebuild by going after a 31-year-old PG... again, doubtful
BKN... Kyle still wants to win, right? Sometimes you sacrifice dollars to do that
PHX... They already have Bledsoe and Knight at PG
BOS... Only legit option that Kyle might consider, but again does Boston not have enough guards under 6'2 (I.Thomas, Bradley)

My stance remains, there is no need to be offering Lowry a 35% Max contract... 4 years at Demar money should be more than sufficient.

It only takes one max offer. I see 3 highly likely offers. Even if toronto is the best option for Kyle for winning, you think he will turn down 50M+ to stay with the raptors? Kyle has been underpaid his whole career. This is his last chance to cash in. Loyalty needs to go both ways.

BC traded for Kyle and currently has no NBA staring quality guards. He wants to win now. Cuban can exercise his team option on Dirk, sign Kyle and then resign Dirk with an exception for one last run with Dirk. Ainge will always go for the biggest splash possible and IT is better in a 6th man role than running an offense. You may not have noticed, but small players have been very successful in this small ball era we are currently in.

[Jonn]

I don't understand why there are still people who believe this flawed thinking.

1. Losing Lowry will not make the Raptors bad enough to get a top 3 pick
2. Losing Lowry is guaranteed to put us in a treadmill position as we are a young talented team now without its leader and best player and no way to replace him because we are capped out.
3. Even if you get a top 3 pick, it is still very unlikely you get a superstar player
4. There are many teams that have drafted "superstars" but did not have the surrounding talent or system/culture to take them far (Cousins, George, Chris Paul in Cha, Antony Davis, Carmelo)
5. Even when you pull off the perfect tank like OKC of getting 3 superstar players in 3 consecutive years it is no guarantee of anything

Tanking/starting over type talk really needs to stop. There are some teams this applies to like the Mavs, Heat and Nets. But kids who are used to playing video games and just hitting restart when they aren't winning do not live in reality and think that 28 of 30 NBA franchises should be tanking.

The point is the current core is not good enough to win. Trying to insult my intelligence is not making your point. It's making you look like a dbag. I'm not comfortable locking up Lowry to a massive deal if the team around him isn't addressed. Signing him will eliminate all possible flexibility. And everyone has been waiting for Masai to do something about it. We had flexibility last year he decided to stay pat. It's time to make a move.

Then you do not understand the salary cap. There is no flexibility gained by not signing Lowry. We are pretty much at the salary cap whether Lowry is signed or not. If you want flexibility, the best thing to do is to resign Lowry and then trade him.

Your initial post was talking about drafting a superstar. I'm not sure how one does that by going from #25 to #17 in the draft. That is the "flexibility" you will get by not resigning Lowry and not tanking.

No I fully understand the salary cap. Obviously not giving Lowry a near max contract would not be the only choice made... If we can sign and trade him that would be lovely. But having him and DeRozan for four years with seemingly no help is pretty bleak. Especially if Masai is reluctant to shake up the core. Winning 50 games is meaningless if that is your ceiling. Trade Jonas, trade some young pieces, trade both your first round picks. Anything to bring in a franchise changing talent. That should be 1A and 1B on Masai's list.

[Skeezo]

Teams that will have space for a max salary in 2017
PHI
BOS
DAL (if they do not exercise Dirk's team option)
BKN
PHX

I can see all of these teams offering Lowry the max with BC, Cuban and Ainge all targeting Kyle. If Toronto doesn't offer Kyle the max, he will be the best free agent on the market with Curry, KD, Griffin, Paul likely getting max offers at 12:01 to stay with their teams.

Philly... BC might be dumb enough to offer it even though it makes no sense. Kyle is a win now player and Philly is nowhere near.
Dallas... They are going into rebuild mode, you don't start your rebuild by going after a 31-year-old PG... again, doubtful
BKN... Kyle still wants to win, right? Sometimes you sacrifice dollars to do that
PHX... They already have Bledsoe and Knight at PG
BOS... Only legit option that Kyle might consider, but again does Boston not have enough guards under 6'2 (I.Thomas, Bradley)

My stance remains, there is no need to be offering Lowry a 35% Max contract... 4 years at Demar money should be more than sufficient.

It only takes one max offer. I see 3 highly likely offers. Even if toronto is the best option for Kyle for winning, you think he will turn down 50M+ to stay with the raptors? Kyle has been underpaid his whole career. This is his last chance to cash in. Loyalty needs to go both ways.

BC traded for Kyle and currently has no NBA staring quality guards. He wants to win now. Cuban can exercise his team option on Dirk, sign Kyle and then resign Dirk with an exception for one last run with Dirk. Ainge will always go for the biggest splash possible and IT is better in a 6th man role than running an offense. You may not have noticed, but small players have been very successful in this small ball era we are currently in.

I don't give a crap who a player compares themselves to. Already making over 50m in less than a 10 year period will never in my book be considered underpaid... If anything the salaries are beginning to turn me off the game of basketball to be honest. I understand your meaning its too tough for me to swallow though.

Now back to the point, Lowry's max deal... First, let's remember no team can offer him 5 years, so let's take that off the table. I have not done the math yet but what is a 10yr Experience Max deal over 4yrs with 4.5 raises? Approx 4yrs/130m-135m... I'm talking about giving him a Derozan like deal 28m over the course of 4 years, so what is that 4yrs/112m? He's not leaving Toronto for 20m, and if he does that loyalty isn't going both ways as you state.

Dallas is done, you don't invest 135m to see if you can get one more year of a 40 year old Dirk
Boston... A small guard can work in the small ball scheme, absolutely, but not Three of them... Lowry, Bradley both starting and then a below 6 foot I.T off that bench... That doesn't make much sense.

[Gold Dragon]

The point is the current core is not good enough to win. Trying to insult my intelligence is not making your point. It's making you look like a dbag. I'm not comfortable locking up Lowry to a massive deal if the team around him isn't addressed. Signing him will eliminate all possible flexibility. And everyone has been waiting for Masai to do something about it. We had flexibility last year he decided to stay pat. It's time to make a move.

Then you do not understand the salary cap. There is no flexibility gained by not signing Lowry. We are pretty much at the salary cap whether Lowry is signed or not. If you want flexibility, the best thing to do is to resign Lowry and then trade him.

Your initial post was talking about drafting a superstar. I'm not sure how one does that by going from #25 to #17 in the draft. That is the "flexibility" you will get by not resigning Lowry and not tanking.

No I fully understand the salary cap. Obviously not giving Lowry a near max contract would not be the only choice made... If we can sign and trade him that would be lovely. But having him and DeRozan for four years with seemingly no help is pretty bleak. Especially if Masai is reluctant to shake up the core. Winning 50 games is meaningless if that is your ceiling. Trade Jonas, trade some young pieces, trade both your first round picks. Anything to bring in a franchise changing talent. That should be 1A and 1B on Masai's list.

When is the last sign and trade that netted more than a highly protected 1st round pick?

Unfortunately, franchise changing talents don't usually change teams. Pinning your hopes on that is an exercise in futility.

Is cousins really a franchise changing talent? He is definitely a talented player. I'm not so sure that what it will cost to get him will actually improve the raptors overall. Who else is there? Franchise players don't exactly grow on trees.

[Gold Dragon]

Now back to the point, Lowry's max deal... First, let's remember no team can offer him 5 years, so let's take that off the table. I have not done the math yet but what is a 10yr Experience Max deal over 4yrs with 4.5 raises? Approx 4yrs/130m-135m... I'm talking about giving him a Derozan like deal 28m over the course of 4 years, so what is that 4yrs/112m? He's not leaving Toronto for 20m, and if he does that loyalty isn't going both ways as you state.

You are correct. It will not be 50M+ because of the 4 year limit.

The ten year vet max will be 33M if the cap is as projected at 102M. At 4.5% raises over 4 years that is 141M. A 4 year 28M contract like demar is 112M. So the difference is 29M. How can you say that contracts are ridiculous and at the same time say that is a small amount of money that lowry should just give up because of loyalty?

[Skeezo]

Now back to the point, Lowry's max deal... First, let's remember no team can offer him 5 years, so let's take that off the table. I have not done the math yet but what is a 10yr Experience Max deal over 4yrs with 4.5 raises? Approx 4yrs/130m-135m... I'm talking about giving him a Derozan like deal 28m over the course of 4 years, so what is that 4yrs/112m? He's not leaving Toronto for 20m, and if he does that loyalty isn't going both ways as you state.

You are correct. It will not be 50M+ because of the 4 year limit.

The ten year vet max will be 33M if the cap is as projected at 102M. At 4.5% raises over 4 years that is 141M. A 4 year 28M contract like demar is 112M. So the difference is 29M. How can you say that contracts are ridiculous and at the same time say that is a small amount of money that lowry should just give up because of loyalty?

I can say it cause he is already getting 112m for four years of service... I can say it because in four years a then 31-year-old Demar DeRozan making 28m per will be worth way more than a 35-year-old Lowry making 37-38m... That's foolish... If you know you don't have TRUE Franchise changing players ala LeBron, A.Davis, CP3, Durant, Westbrook, then they are not worth the 10-year 35% max... I love both Demar and Lowry and their worth the 25% and maybe even the 30% max but not the 35%... We are a very good team, but we aren't contenders, and you don't pay your two best players Max dollars if they aren't getting you into Contender status.

Again if Lowry wants to walk away from Toronto to go to an unsure environment, and surely a non-competitive one for 20-30m extra let him... I'm still not a believer there are going to be 35% max offers for him... Anyways, I guess I am the person that believes there isn't much in the world you can do for 140m that you can't already do with 110m. Anything else you could mention is merely an exercise in vanity or power which to me is just douche like. Guess I'm just hoping Lowry is the type to realize that.

[Gold Dragon]

Now back to the point, Lowry's max deal... First, let's remember no team can offer him 5 years, so let's take that off the table. I have not done the math yet but what is a 10yr Experience Max deal over 4yrs with 4.5 raises? Approx 4yrs/130m-135m... I'm talking about giving him a Derozan like deal 28m over the course of 4 years, so what is that 4yrs/112m? He's not leaving Toronto for 20m, and if he does that loyalty isn't going both ways as you state.

You are correct. It will not be 50M+ because of the 4 year limit.

The ten year vet max will be 33M if the cap is as projected at 102M. At 4.5% raises over 4 years that is 141M. A 4 year 28M contract like demar is 112M. So the difference is 29M. How can you say that contracts are ridiculous and at the same time say that is a small amount of money that lowry should just give up because of loyalty?

I can say it cause he is already getting 112m for four years of service... I can say it because in four years a then 31-year-old Demar DeRozan making 28m per will be worth way more than a 35-year-old Lowry making 37-38m... That's foolish... If you know you don't have TRUE Franchise changing players ala LeBron, A.Davis, CP3, Durant, Westbrook, then they are not worth the 10-year 35% max... I love both Demar and Lowry and their worth the 25% and maybe even the 30% max but not the 35%... We are a very good team, but we aren't contenders, and you don't pay your two best players Max dollars if they aren't getting you into Contender status.

Again if Lowry wants to walk away from Toronto to go to an unsure environment, and surely a non-competitive one for 20-30m extra let him... I'm still not a believer there are going to be 35% max offers for him... Anyways, I guess I am the person that believes there isn't much in the world you can do for 140m that you can't already do with 110m. Anything else you could mention is merely an exercise in vanity or power which to me is just douche like. Guess I'm just hoping Lowry is the type to realize that.

Unfortunately, your personal feelings about how much money is "enough" have no bearing on the type of contract he will be offered or accept.

We went through all this with demar's contract and complaining about it and misreading the market again will not get you anywhere. Trying to impose your socialist perspective on the free market process of NBA free agency will only frustrate you.

[Berserk_Raptor]

i dont know why people still state that Kyle should be paid below the max based on his age. Hey guys, it seems like you didnt see Grizzlies or Wizards when they re-signed Conley and Beal. If Beal received the max being injured, just imagine how much Kyle will get. Kyle will be offered max contracts from several teams, in fact, he's one of the top free agents this offseason.

[Rapcity_11]

i dont know why people still state that Kyle should be paid below the max based on his age. Hey guys, it seems like you didnt see Grizzlies or Wizards when they re-signed Conley and Beal. If Beal received the max being injured, just imagine how much Kyle will get. Kyle will be offered max contracts from several teams, in fact, he's one of the top free agents this offseason.

Only a few teams have max space, so several is likely not true (because of need, fit, etc.). But it only takes one.

[Berserk_Raptor]

i dont know why people still state that Kyle should be paid below the max based on his age. Hey guys, it seems like you didnt see Grizzlies or Wizards when they re-signed Conley and Beal. If Beal received the max being injured, just imagine how much Kyle will get. Kyle will be offered max contracts from several teams, in fact, he's one of the top free agents this offseason.

Only a few teams have max space, so several is likely not true (because of need, fit, etc.). But it only takes one.

I mean, several teams that have cap space

[Rapcity_11]

i dont know why people still state that Kyle should be paid below the max based on his age. Hey guys, it seems like you didnt see Grizzlies or Wizards when they re-signed Conley and Beal. If Beal received the max being injured, just imagine how much Kyle will get. Kyle will be offered max contracts from several teams, in fact, he's one of the top free agents this offseason.

Only a few teams have max space, so several is likely not true (because of need, fit, etc.). But it only takes one.

I mean, several teams that have cap space

Who are these several teams?

[Gold Dragon]

Only a few teams have max space, so several is likely not true (because of need, fit, etc.). But it only takes one.

I mean, several teams that have cap space

Who are these several teams?

Scroll up a few posts to this post
viewtopic.php?p=50265215#p50265215

[Rapcity_11]

I mean, several teams that have cap space

Who are these several teams?

Scroll up a few posts to this post
viewtopic.php?p=50265215#p50265215

Yeah, I saw that (and responded to your Dallas point).