JV with a whopping 47 pts allowed vs. Phoenix

[Lukeem]

It can simultaneously be true that:

1. You can (and should) do this for every player (DD, Lowry, etc.)
2. The information about JV is still valuable regardless

i dont think that info alone has any value... it could if you add 2 things one very easy (still time consuming) and the other time consuming and very difficult do to objectivity
1) percentages... if plays a player is involved in is responsible for 82 points that sounds bad, but if its an active defender they will be involved in more plays. what is the percentage / ppp of plays thst defender is involved in if its 82 per 100 possesions that is really good

2) % of blame that player is responsible for especially in pick and rolls. obviously the two direct defenders have responsibility but so does whoever is responsible to pick up the help (sometimes thats closest to play, sometimes its furthest, sometimes its a specific defender, sometimes its the defender of a specific offensive player all depending on the scheme)

within almost every play there is responsibility to every defender, depending on the play it might look something like this

c - 45%
pg - 30%
sg- 15%
pf- 5
sf- 5

good luck removing objectivity from that enough to make it a truly valuable measurement

These percentages can vary depending on who the individual defender is on the team. If a team sees Gobert down the middle they sure as hell don't want to keep going at him in pick and rolls, Favors is the much wiser choice in that regard, and I think the same can be said for JV vs say Ibaka or Poeltl. Teams know who they're attacking, scouting reports are there for a reason.

those percentages would change on every single play

if for example lowry is guarding the ball with hands down while jvs man is coming with a screen. ogs man is setting a weakside screen for ibakas man and derozan falls asleep and gives up an easy back door cut for a dunk it might be

c - 1%
pf - 1%
sf 1%
pg 7%
sg 90%

[Local_NG_Idiot]

You have to look at the whole team and judge their defense. Lowry, Derozan (I think he did ok yesterday), JV and the bench did not play good defense. Especially because troy daniels was playing like klay thompson yesterday.

Also you wanna know why there are "Raptors Killers" seemingly in every game? Because Collectively our team is not good defensively and have become an offense first team. Its crazy how a casey led team has gone full 180 considering his philosophy.

So you cant really on blame JV especially when he was also getting buckets in a favourable matchup

Toronto as a team is currently ranked 9th in DefRtg @ 103.1

With JV on the on-court drating is 109.1 (worst DRtg on the team by 3 pts/100 poss)

When looking at similar ranked teams (7-12 ranked range), their starting Cs are not their worst ranked defenders.

POR -102.5 --> Nurkic 99.7 (2nd best on-court drating for the team)
LAL - 102.9 --> Lopez 102.2 (ranked 6th best on-court drating for the team)
WAS - 103.9 --> Gortat 104.5 (ranked middle of the pack on-court drating for the team)
CHO - 104.4 --> Howard 102.8 (ranked 5th best on-court drating for the team)
PHI - 104.6 --> Embiid 100.2 (ranked 3rd best on-court drating for the team)

JV is a true detriment to the defense and when compared to similarly above average defensive teams, it becomes quite obvious just how much of a liability he is on that end of the floor.

[Johnny Bball]

They started running their version of ICE in 2011 when Casey and Sterner left Dallas and came to Toronto together. At that time, they weren't EXCLUSIVELY using it, but I attended coaching clinics that season and they introduced the concept (which I hated at the time) and then they started running it in games. By 2012, it was FULLY integrated.

Does that mean they will NEVER hedge or trap or do anything else? No of course not. EVERY NBA team has anywhere from 4-6 schemes they run against ball screens depending on people playing D and attributes of the offensive players.

No team fully relies on ONE P&R coverage, but Toronto is most comfortable running the drop back and protecting rim when JV is on the floor

Im not sure what you saw there, and they may have had something they discussed, but if this team iced the sideline pnr in 2012 to 2015 I didn’t see it. People were posting that we needed to copy Thibs and start icing the PNR precisely BECAUSE it would help JV. I especially remember DHackett making this point often. We adopted that part of Thibs Bulls defence 2 years ago.

I’m saying this to be crystal clear, JV is bad at defending the PNR and it is not the fault of this staff. They have done everything they can.

hoping i can disagree slighlty without starting a fight

jv is a bad pnr defender... within our defense he is the weakest link. last couple years its been atrocious at times .

i do think he has made imorovements and is passable now. I do not think systems is the major problem, there might be some adjustments that should be made but none of that other stuff matters if we do not hold players accountable.

it is really hard to tell at times what specifcally the raps are trying to run when its obvious multiple players are out of position.

the raps have had many plays where
-big plays low and we do not fight over screen
-big hedges or traps 3 off ball players do not move
-big switches on screened doesnt recover

jv again is often at fault but as a team we need to get better. PNR is jvs biggest weakness. if we didnt have jv we would have someone else in there who also has a weakness and teams would figure out how to attack that.

basketball is a game of runs... the season holds true to this as well

the best teams are the ones that are able to adapt the quickest and most - hiding their weaknesses and exploiting their strengths

JV needs to keep improving more than anyone on defense. but if he can make slight imorovements with everyone else we can negate this weakness as a team and be a dangerous team going forward



throwing this out again... probably because i doubt it lasts too long

starters from highest to lowest 3pt %

val
og
ibaka
lowry
derozan


by end of the year id bet jv is 4th on that list but still settling above/ around 350

that coupled with his size strength and inside skills makes for a lot of potential in this lineup

Sure we can. Just as long as you don’t insult me like other people have.

We can disagree he’s passable. But there is no other defensive system to help him or us. There is no defense invented yet that solves his problems. I sure can’t see what could be done within the current rules of the nba.

If the big doesn’t slow down the ballhandler at all, then the guard is going to always trail the play against any remotely quick ballhandler. This isn’t about if a guard can fight over a pick. With the distance JV plays off the pnr, the guard is always going to be behind unless the ballhandler sucks. It’s why the ability to show/hedge and recognize when the pnr is happening is so important.

If the big hedges and the three players off the ball don’t have to move that’s awesome. Pnr is a two man game and if the big hedges, the guard is given time to catch up, and there is no switching. The big has to switch more if he can’t hedge, but he’s likely defending 1 on 2 at that point.

We could have someone else there but it won’t be a slow centre again, no. It will be someone that can both hedge and rim protect. Since pnr is overwhelming the easiest and most frequent way to attack a defense nowadays, it’s tge most important part of a bigs defense imo.

But JV isn’t gong to improve at this in mid season, that’s impossible I think for him to gain speed out of nowhere. It’s very likely he never does at this point. Pnr is mostly a two man game, the team can’t help him here, and “as a team” nobody can negate the weakness for him. It’s just constant rotation after the pnr until it eventually the defense breaks down the way it’s going.

All I know, blaming this pnr defense on coaches or sytems is not real (not that you did that, just saying).

As for your last sentence, if JV were a good PNR defender and wasn’t slow, and he then could stay on the floor, then even teams like CLE etc. can’t go small, they would be forced to put TT out there at the 5 and not Love. We might actually have a real shot if he had a big 4 players. And that’s what is so very disappointing.

[Lukeem]

It can simultaneously be true that:

1. You can (and should) do this for every player (DD, Lowry, etc.)
2. The information about JV is still valuable regardless

i dont think that info alone has any value... it could if you add 2 things one very easy (still time consuming) and the other time consuming and very difficult do to objectivity
1) percentages... if plays a player is involved in is responsible for 82 points that sounds bad, but if its an active defender they will be involved in more plays. what is the percentage / ppp of plays thst defender is involved in if its 82 per 100 possesions that is really good

2) % of blame that player is responsible for especially in pick and rolls. obviously the two direct defenders have responsibility but so does whoever is responsible to pick up the help (sometimes thats closest to play, sometimes its furthest, sometimes its a specific defender, sometimes its the defender of a specific offensive player all depending on the scheme)

within almost every play there is responsibility to every defender, depending on the play it might look something like this

c - 45%
pg - 30%
sg- 15%
pf- 5
sf- 5

good luck removing objectivity from that enough to make it a truly valuable measurement

These percentages can vary depending on who the individual defender is on the team. If a team sees Gobert down the middle they sure as hell don't want to keep going at him in pick and rolls, Favors is the much wiser choice in that regard, and I think the same can be said for JV vs say Ibaka or Poeltl. Teams know who they're attacking, scouting reports are there for a reason.

those percentages would change on every single play

if for example lowry is guarding the ball with hands down while jvs man is coming with a screen. ogs man is setting a weakside screen for ibakas man and derozan falls asleep and gives up an easy back door cut for a dunk it might be

c - 1%
pf - 1%
sf 1%
pg 7%
sg 90%

[fouronesix22]

You have to look at the whole team and judge their defense. Lowry, Derozan (I think he did ok yesterday), JV and the bench did not play good defense. Especially because troy daniels was playing like klay thompson yesterday.

Also you wanna know why there are "Raptors Killers" seemingly in every game? Because Collectively our team is not good defensively and have become an offense first team. Its crazy how a casey led team has gone full 180 considering his philosophy.

So you cant really on blame JV especially when he was also getting buckets in a favourable matchup

Toronto as a team is currently ranked 9th in DefRtg @ 103.1

With JV on the on-court drating is 109.1 (worst DRtg on the team by 3 pts/100 poss)

When looking at similar ranked teams (7-12 ranked range), their starting Cs are not their worst ranked defenders.

POR -102.5 --> Nurkic 99.7 (2nd best on-court drating for the team)
LAL - 102.9 --> Lopez 102.2 (ranked 6th best on-court drating for the team)
WAS - 103.9 --> Gortat 104.5 (ranked middle of the pack on-court drating for the team)
CHO - 104.4 --> Howard 102.8 (ranked 5th best on-court drating for the team)
PHI - 104.6 --> Embiid 100.2 (ranked 3rd best on-court drating for the team)

JV is a true detriment to the defense and when compared to similarly above average defensive teams, it becomes quite obvious just how much of a liability he is on that end of the floor.

That is an interesting stat. I agree his defense is not good. I was one of the people that wanted him traded. His on/off Opponent ORtg stats also justify his poor defense. 112.2 when ON and 101.7 when OFF. Can you pull up these stats for Demar and Kyle please? I want to know how they are

[Lukeem]

Im not sure what you saw there, and they may have had something they discussed, but if this team iced the sideline pnr in 2012 to 2015 I didn’t see it. People were posting that we needed to copy Thibs and start icing the PNR precisely BECAUSE it would help JV. I especially remember DHackett making this point often. We adopted that part of Thibs Bulls defence 2 years ago.

I’m saying this to be crystal clear, JV is bad at defending the PNR and it is not the fault of this staff. They have done everything they can.

hoping i can disagree slighlty without starting a fight

jv is a bad pnr defender... within our defense he is the weakest link. last couple years its been atrocious at times .

i do think he has made imorovements and is passable now. I do not think systems is the major problem, there might be some adjustments that should be made but none of that other stuff matters if we do not hold players accountable.

it is really hard to tell at times what specifcally the raps are trying to run when its obvious multiple players are out of position.

the raps have had many plays where
-big plays low and we do not fight over screen
-big hedges or traps 3 off ball players do not move
-big switches on screened doesnt recover

jv again is often at fault but as a team we need to get better. PNR is jvs biggest weakness. if we didnt have jv we would have someone else in there who also has a weakness and teams would figure out how to attack that.

basketball is a game of runs... the season holds true to this as well

the best teams are the ones that are able to adapt the quickest and most - hiding their weaknesses and exploiting their strengths

JV needs to keep improving more than anyone on defense. but if he can make slight imorovements with everyone else we can negate this weakness as a team and be a dangerous team going forward



throwing this out again... probably because i doubt it lasts too long

starters from highest to lowest 3pt %

val
og
ibaka
lowry
derozan


by end of the year id bet jv is 4th on that list but still settling above/ around 350

that coupled with his size strength and inside skills makes for a lot of potential in this lineup

Sure we can. Just as long as you don’t insult me like other people have.

We can disagree he’s passable. But there is no other defensive system to help him or us. There is no defense invented yet that solves his problems. I sure can’t see what could be done within the current rules of the nba.

If the big doesn’t slow down the ballhandler at all, then the guard is going to always trail the play against any remotely quick ballhandler. This isn’t about if a guard can fight over a pick. With the distance JV plays off the pnr, the guard is always going to be behind unless the ballhandler sucks. It’s why the ability to show/hedge and recognize when the pnr is happening is so important.

If the big hedges and the three players off the ball don’t have to move that’s awesome. Pnr is a two man game and if the big hedges, the guard is given time to catch up, and there is no switching. The big has to switch more if he can’t hedge, but he’s likely defending 1 on 2 at that point.

We could have someone else there but it won’t be a slow centre again, no. It will be someone that can both hedge and rim protect. Since pnr is overwhelming the easiest and most frequent way to attack a defense nowadays, it’s tge most important part of a bigs defense imo.

But JV isn’t gong to improve at this in mid season, that’s impossible I think for him to gain speed out of nowhere. It’s very likely he never does at this point. Pnr is mostly a two man game, the team can’t help him here, and “as a team” nobody can negate the weakness for him. It’s just constant rotation after the pnr until it eventually the defense breaks down the way it’s going.

All I know, blaming this pnr defense on coaches or sytems is not real (not that you did that, just saying).

ive always said that it appears playing off that much is a coaching choice - if it is not than jv should not be playing at all. whatever system the coach chooses every player has to buy into or it doesnt matter

so if casey wants him to play up and he isnt then val is 100% responsible for being lazy, stupid and or slow whatever you want to chalk it up to. but casey is 100% responsible for not holding him accountable. i doubt that is the case. so can we advance on the pretense that casey wants him to play back?

if that is the strategy then the screened defender needs to put enough pressure on ball handler to make any potential shot being a contested two with us sitting in a great spot to rebound. id be okay living with that. in a two man game scenario.

but pnr d cannot be a two man game. there are 3 other defenders and usually they are more responisble for the roll man but with the big playing back they do not need to be. so if the BH goes to a side with two offensive players they can rotate over and force a kick with x closeouts. if they are going to a side with one offensive player they probably need to help from the overloaded side which is a lot of distance to cover.


that is all looking at what we need to do better when sitting back and protecting rim.

this is the nba we are talking back and if defensively you do the same time everytime any team will eat you up. val needs to be better in different scenarios as do all the defenders.

one thing we have not done much, which i love doing is just doubling the f out of the ball and other three players drop to a triangle recover zone

when we have hedged hard it shouldnt be too hard for point guards to pass out and then our big is 30 feet from the net and we often got burned

when we give a medium hedge that roll man seems to eat us up

when we give a soft hedge guards at this level are good enough to force that soft hedge into a switch or again hit that roll man


we need to be able to mix it up and make pnr a 5 man game because at this level playing it like a 2 man game youre playing at a huge disadvantage


and yes a lot of this trying to cover for jvs weakness but putting the blame soley on him is just looking for an easy out, which at this level is never that simple

[CoachJReturns]

When you have a poor pick and roll center, combined with guards who won't fight over a screen it can get ugly. JV takes his share ofbtge blame but our all stars are also a part of the problem. Anyway they won which is always enough for most of this fan base.id like a rebuild but that's years always.

[Johnny Bball]

hoping i can disagree slighlty without starting a fight

jv is a bad pnr defender... within our defense he is the weakest link. last couple years its been atrocious at times .

i do think he has made imorovements and is passable now. I do not think systems is the major problem, there might be some adjustments that should be made but none of that other stuff matters if we do not hold players accountable.

it is really hard to tell at times what specifcally the raps are trying to run when its obvious multiple players are out of position.

the raps have had many plays where
-big plays low and we do not fight over screen
-big hedges or traps 3 off ball players do not move
-big switches on screened doesnt recover

jv again is often at fault but as a team we need to get better. PNR is jvs biggest weakness. if we didnt have jv we would have someone else in there who also has a weakness and teams would figure out how to attack that.

basketball is a game of runs... the season holds true to this as well

the best teams are the ones that are able to adapt the quickest and most - hiding their weaknesses and exploiting their strengths

JV needs to keep improving more than anyone on defense. but if he can make slight imorovements with everyone else we can negate this weakness as a team and be a dangerous team going forward



throwing this out again... probably because i doubt it lasts too long

starters from highest to lowest 3pt %

val
og
ibaka
lowry
derozan


by end of the year id bet jv is 4th on that list but still settling above/ around 350

that coupled with his size strength and inside skills makes for a lot of potential in this lineup

Sure we can. Just as long as you don’t insult me like other people have.

We can disagree he’s passable. But there is no other defensive system to help him or us. There is no defense invented yet that solves his problems. I sure can’t see what could be done within the current rules of the nba.

If the big doesn’t slow down the ballhandler at all, then the guard is going to always trail the play against any remotely quick ballhandler. This isn’t about if a guard can fight over a pick. With the distance JV plays off the pnr, the guard is always going to be behind unless the ballhandler sucks. It’s why the ability to show/hedge and recognize when the pnr is happening is so important.

If the big hedges and the three players off the ball don’t have to move that’s awesome. Pnr is a two man game and if the big hedges, the guard is given time to catch up, and there is no switching. The big has to switch more if he can’t hedge, but he’s likely defending 1 on 2 at that point.

We could have someone else there but it won’t be a slow centre again, no. It will be someone that can both hedge and rim protect. Since pnr is overwhelming the easiest and most frequent way to attack a defense nowadays, it’s tge most important part of a bigs defense imo.

But JV isn’t gong to improve at this in mid season, that’s impossible I think for him to gain speed out of nowhere. It’s very likely he never does at this point. Pnr is mostly a two man game, the team can’t help him here, and “as a team” nobody can negate the weakness for him. It’s just constant rotation after the pnr until it eventually the defense breaks down the way it’s going.

All I know, blaming this pnr defense on coaches or sytems is not real (not that you did that, just saying).

ive always said that it appears playing off that much is a coaching choice - if it is not than jv should not be playing at all. whatever system the coach chooses every player has to buy into or it doesnt matter

so if casey wants him to play up and he isnt then val is 100% responsible for being lazy, stupid and or slow whatever you want to chalk it up to. but casey is 100% responsible for not holding him accountable. i doubt that is the case. so can we advance on the pretense that casey wants him to play back?

if that is the strategy then the screened defender needs to put enough pressure on ball handler to make any potential shot being a contested two with us sitting in a great spot to rebound. id be okay living with that. in a two man game scenario.

but pnr d cannot be a two man game. there are 3 other defenders and usually they are more responisble for the roll man but with the big playing back they do not need to be. so if the BH goes to a side with two offensive players they can rotate over and force a kick with x closeouts. if they are going to a side with one offensive player they probably need to help from the overloaded side which is a lot of distance to cover.


that is all looking at what we need to do better when sitting back and protecting rim.

this is the nba we are talking back and if defensively you do the same time everytime any team will eat you up. val needs to be better in different scenarios as do all the defenders.

one thing we have not done much, which i love doing is just doubling the f out of the ball and other three players drop to a triangle recover zone

when we have hedged hard it shouldnt be too hard for point guards to pass out and then our big is 30 feet from the net and we often got burned

when we give a medium hedge that roll man seems to eat us up

when we give a soft hedge guards at this level are good enough to force that soft hedge into a switch or again hit that roll man


we need to be able to mix it up and make pnr a 5 man game because at this level playing it like a 2 man game youre playing at a huge disadvantage


and yes a lot of this trying to cover for jvs weakness but putting the blame soley on him is just looking for an easy out, which at this level is never that simple

How do you hold the guy accountable for something he just can’t do years back when we had no other centre. He hedged 1 or 2% of the time before 2015-16. That’s all I remember from past discussions. They were asking him to do it when he could see it coming and react. He cannot do it. There little choice. It’s not the team asking him to defend like that so it’s ok, it’s just, he doesn’t seem to bc able to offer an option.

We needed him on the floor. When you get to a point that you don’t need him, sure then never play him and hold him accountable. That’s kind of what was happening when we would play quicker centres and he would get 18 mpg isn’t it.

Hedging is the best way to diffuse the pnr and defend. Period. I’m not going to argue pnr Much more because It is a two man game and it’s best defended that way. 5 man game just means scrambling and rotating. Man, it took years for people to understand our “scramble defense”that they saw wasnt intentional and was a byproduct of this. They would rail on how bad this team was coached because of a scramble defense, when we would simply be rotating because of the pnr. You maybe have just been seeing us do it badly. That’s not the way it’s supposed to go as best practice.

It is that simple for me btw. We could have Avery Bradley fighting thru screens out there and out pnr defense would still suck. It doesn’t improve with a Norm fighting through them much and he’s pretty good.

[dagger]

Meanwhile, the Raptors are 18-8, and the starting five - after a slow start to many games - is starting to click really well while the vaunted second unit is increasing impotent on offence and vulnerable on defence. Hopefully, Delon's return will help on the latter. Jonas and Serge are starting to put together back to back good games, he look increasingly comfortable working with each other - as Jack noted on air last night - and if that keeps up, we have a great 56 games ahead of us.

[pbj]

Booo

No wonder that more and more people are leaving RealGm and going to reddit. RealGm is losing its value full speed. Only Raptors and Knics are still hanging on because they can trash talk without being downvoted to disappearance.

I don't understand. People are leaving RealGM because I want to encourage people to do some legitimate, objective, original analysis?

You're probably right though, we would get more traffic if RGM were more like r/torontoraptors where currently..
#2 post is an 8s clip of JV hitting a 3 (and all the top comments are all memes and jokes)
#3 post is a meme
#4 post is a picture of the Suns in-arena entertainment

TONS of value there.

All you do is encouraging haters to put their own analysis based on their bias perception.
At some point there was like 1/4 of page based on JV hate.

That's where the 'discuss' and 'debate' part of a forum comes in - someone posts (mostly) objective analysis like OP here, another poster replies with some unfounded/biased opinion, a third poster explains to him why he's wrong and at the end of the day, hopefully we're all smarter for it.

That's how it should work anyway. Usually doesn't.

[Lukeem]

Sure we can. Just as long as you don’t insult me like other people have.

We can disagree he’s passable. But there is no other defensive system to help him or us. There is no defense invented yet that solves his problems. I sure can’t see what could be done within the current rules of the nba.

If the big doesn’t slow down the ballhandler at all, then the guard is going to always trail the play against any remotely quick ballhandler. This isn’t about if a guard can fight over a pick. With the distance JV plays off the pnr, the guard is always going to be behind unless the ballhandler sucks. It’s why the ability to show/hedge and recognize when the pnr is happening is so important.

If the big hedges and the three players off the ball don’t have to move that’s awesome. Pnr is a two man game and if the big hedges, the guard is given time to catch up, and there is no switching. The big has to switch more if he can’t hedge, but he’s likely defending 1 on 2 at that point.

We could have someone else there but it won’t be a slow centre again, no. It will be someone that can both hedge and rim protect. Since pnr is overwhelming the easiest and most frequent way to attack a defense nowadays, it’s tge most important part of a bigs defense imo.

But JV isn’t gong to improve at this in mid season, that’s impossible I think for him to gain speed out of nowhere. It’s very likely he never does at this point. Pnr is mostly a two man game, the team can’t help him here, and “as a team” nobody can negate the weakness for him. It’s just constant rotation after the pnr until it eventually the defense breaks down the way it’s going.

All I know, blaming this pnr defense on coaches or sytems is not real (not that you did that, just saying).

ive always said that it appears playing off that much is a coaching choice - if it is not than jv should not be playing at all. whatever system the coach chooses every player has to buy into or it doesnt matter

so if casey wants him to play up and he isnt then val is 100% responsible for being lazy, stupid and or slow whatever you want to chalk it up to. but casey is 100% responsible for not holding him accountable. i doubt that is the case. so can we advance on the pretense that casey wants him to play back?

if that is the strategy then the screened defender needs to put enough pressure on ball handler to make any potential shot being a contested two with us sitting in a great spot to rebound. id be okay living with that. in a two man game scenario.

but pnr d cannot be a two man game. there are 3 other defenders and usually they are more responisble for the roll man but with the big playing back they do not need to be. so if the BH goes to a side with two offensive players they can rotate over and force a kick with x closeouts. if they are going to a side with one offensive player they probably need to help from the overloaded side which is a lot of distance to cover.


that is all looking at what we need to do better when sitting back and protecting rim.

this is the nba we are talking back and if defensively you do the same time everytime any team will eat you up. val needs to be better in different scenarios as do all the defenders.

one thing we have not done much, which i love doing is just doubling the f out of the ball and other three players drop to a triangle recover zone

when we have hedged hard it shouldnt be too hard for point guards to pass out and then our big is 30 feet from the net and we often got burned

when we give a medium hedge that roll man seems to eat us up

when we give a soft hedge guards at this level are good enough to force that soft hedge into a switch or again hit that roll man


we need to be able to mix it up and make pnr a 5 man game because at this level playing it like a 2 man game youre playing at a huge disadvantage


and yes a lot of this trying to cover for jvs weakness but putting the blame soley on him is just looking for an easy out, which at this level is never that simple

How do you hold the guy accountable for something he just can’t do years back when we had no other centre. He hedged 1 or 2% of the time before 2015-16. That’s all I remember from past discussions. They were asking him to do it when he could see it coming and react. He cannot do it. There little choice. It’s not the team asking him to defend like that so it’s ok, it’s just, he doesn’t seem to bc able to offer an option.

We needed him on the floor. When you get to a point that you don’t need him, sure then never play him and hold him accountable. That’s kind of what was happening when we would play quicker centres and he would get 18 mpg isn’t it.

Hedging is the best way to diffuse the pnr and defend. Period. I’m not going to argue pnr Much more because It is a two man game and it’s best defended that way. 5 man game just means scrambling and rotating. Man, it took years for people to understand our “scramble defense”that they saw wasnt intentional and was a byproduct of this. They would rail on how bad this team was coached because of a scramble defense, when we would simply be rotating because of the pnr. You maybe have just been seeing us do it badly. That’s not the way it’s supposed to go as best practice.

It is that simple for me btw.

imo 18mpg is too much for someone that is not trying your system. That needs to be a priority to move forward. It is a fact that JV has hedged successfully, I cannot recall seeing the raps double but wouldn't be surprised if it is just rare. He is capable of doing different things, the more predictable we are the easier it is to pick apart.

If he is asked to play up at times and isn't at this point that should be an instant sub regardless if the team scores or not. 4mpg sounds appropriate... I am not a big bobby knight fan but i am a big fan of his ass to brain theory. sit their ass on the bench and the message gets to their brain. If you just do it some of the time, or when you can get away with it though it loses all effectiveness.

Hedging is the best way to diffuse the pnr and defend. Period. I’m not going to argue pnr Much more because It is a two man game and it’s best defended that way. 5 man game just means scrambling and rotating.

I could not disagree with this anymore. Every form of defence is a situational. Every nuance of the each defence has its strengths and weaknesses, which makes them all basically even until you factor in the defensive players involved and the offensive players involved. Then you will have some strategies that are more effective but even then if an offence knows it is coming it is easier to attack the advantage given up. I doubt you would ever be successful at the highest level saying a generalisation like plan A is always the best thing to do for anything, especially a sport with so many variable with competition that is constantly evolving and scouting you.

Using all 5 defenders does not mean just scrambling and rotating. It means all 5 defenders understanding roles and rotations, with how they change depending on the position on the court and the players involved. Again in my opinion if you think just because a PNR only has two players that are directly involved that they are the only 2 involved at all then a hedge would be pretty useless, the big roles or slips hard and has a step on the hedger, game over. The simplest of systems would be using 3 players and having for example the PF (ibaka collapse to stunt or switch to the roll man) while allowing the others two defenders to stick to their man, but there are a lot of elaborate ways to change this up.

[vini_vidi_vici]

It is a fact that JV has hedged successfully, I cannot recall seeing the raps double but wouldn't be surprised if it is just rare. He is capable of doing different things, the more predictable we are the easier it is to pick apart.

Where is this documented??

[I_Like_Dirt]

Where is this documented??

JV has played in enough games that he's probably done it once or twice.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Where is this documented??

JV has played in enough games that he's probably done it once or twice.

Fair enough.

FWIW, we are mortal enemies until Monday.

[Johnny Bball]

Well we can agree to disagree Lukeem.

http://www.bendhoops.com/pick-n-roll-defense/

But in all these examples of pnr defense, look at where the big stands and what he does. It’s very different than what we see. If you want to call it hedging or even anything that even impedes the ballhandlers progress, none of them involve sagging so far back as a primary means of success which is the issue.

[Lukeem]

It is a fact that JV has hedged successfully, I cannot recall seeing the raps double but wouldn't be surprised if it is just rare. He is capable of doing different things, the more predictable we are the easier it is to pick apart.

Where is this documented??

within the realm of common sense, and memory of a logical fan

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Just a cpl weeks ago VanWest was applauded for his thread about JVs influence in Wins (or something to that effect), a cpl weeks later hes just another JV "hater". RGM in a nutshell.

VanWest is the definitely of RGM as a poster. one day he/she is one extreme and another day he/she is another extreme.

[Lukeem]

Well we can agree to disagree Lukeem.

http://www.bendhoops.com/pick-n-roll-defense/

But in all these examples of pnr defense, look at where the big stands and what he does. It’s very different than what we see. If you want to call it hedging or even anything that even impedes the ballhandlers progress, none of them involve sagging so far back as a primary means of success which is the issue.

I have in almost every post IF CASEY DOES NOT WANT VAL PLAYING THAT LOW HE SHOULD BE BENCHING HIM THE FIRST TIME HE DOES THAT - so if that is the case it is 100% vals fault and 100% caseys fault

Ok, you can believe that NBA coaches stick to what they can learn from bendhoops.com

And that there is one type of defence that is always superior (without even acknowledging that there are 3 general different ways to do that which are very different) but yet teams are constantly coming up with new ways and changing what they apply in different scenarios instead of just running the "best" one

[VanWest82]

Just a cpl weeks ago VanWest was applauded for his thread about JVs influence in Wins (or something to that effect), a cpl weeks later hes just another JV "hater". RGM in a nutshell.

VanWest is the definitely of RGM as a poster. one day he/she is one extreme and another day he/she is another extreme.

I've had a few on here basically accuse me of being a bipolar Raptors fan. Just because I hate "narrative" discussion and like to get into nuanced points about certain aspects of our team, that doesn't mean I'm constantly changing my mind. Like, it's ok to agree with Buff and other JV fans that we're a better, more diversified offensive team when our guards look for JV more on PnR while also thinking that often lost in JV's offensive success is that he's crippling our defense on certain nights (like last night).

If it helps you to think about it another way, I lean conservative/republican on many issues but still think guns are a bad idea, and believe in one payor healthcare. It's about individual topics/issues, not pro JV vs. anti JV.

[EH15]

Just a cpl weeks ago VanWest was applauded for his thread about JVs influence in Wins (or something to that effect), a cpl weeks later hes just another JV "hater". RGM in a nutshell.

VanWest is the definitely of RGM as a poster. one day he/she is one extreme and another day he/she is another extreme.

I've had a few on here basically accuse me of being a bipolar Raptors fan. Just because I hate "narrative" discussion and like to get into nuanced points about certain aspects of our team, that doesn't mean I'm constantly changing my mind. Like, it's ok to agree with Buff and other JV fans that we're a better, more diversified offensive team when our guards look for JV more on PnR while also thinking that often lost in JV's offensive success is that he's crippling our defense on certain nights (like last night).

If it helps you to think about it another way, I lean conservative/republican on many issues but still think guns are a bad idea, and believe in one payor healthcare. It's about individual topics/issues, not pro JV vs. anti JV.

Your qualitative anaylsis is appreciated. The truth is probably somewhere between the two extremes. If everyone on here just agreed then I would not need to go online for discussions. Watching sports isn't like checking the weather. You're not suppose to just take it for what it is and move on. I mean, I guess you could, but what fun is that.