Has it not become overwhelmingly clear (even to management) it's time to blow this up?

[AkelaLoneWolf]

It’s actually not that obvious. There’s clearly a talent deficit but there are things in the short term that can help. Getting back up guards. Better 3 point shooters will help immensely. Tanking this season is a must tho to get another blue chip top 10 prospect.

[PhilBlackson]

the scouting reports on the raptors is simple.

only pascal can get to the rim without help so just crowd the middle of the paint and collapse on shooters.

if the raps dont make 15+ threes then they lose.

a centre fixes this.

?????????

How does getting a centre fix other teams clogging the paint?

lmao.

ask philblackson and barney

ill give you a hint, it has something to do with having a player on the low block that can create a shot for himself.

im sure you three can put it together

Yes & we've concluded that your idiocy knows no bounds. You're literally proposing an idea that only COMPOUNDS the problem. You're both saying we clog the paint too much but want to ADD another player into said area. You can't make up how contradictory & dumb that is

[agkagk]

and youre response to the second quote was " the idea is to contend not be a top ten team".

stop trying to bait me into an argument. its just dense and trolling what your doing kid.

and yes, a back up point guard that can score ten points a night and a centre that can play 20 minutes a night and create passing seams and this team would be 500 or better right now.

The only thing dense is you & your pathetically short sighted ideas for the team lol

It literally has you getting laughed at for multiple pages & by half of the board now. Also don't try the "kid" stuff with me when it's quite clear by everyone's reaction that it's ironically you that has the comprehension level of one. No one is buying into your short-sighted hopes of just being an above .500 team, they want to actually contend which again ironically only points to your lack of comprehension.

once again kid, your twisting my words like a dense childish troll.

your basketball knowledge is as weak sauce as your conversational skills.

warned, personal attack.

[PhilBlackson]

and youre response to the second quote was " the idea is to contend not be a top ten team".

stop trying to bait me into an argument. its just dense and trolling what your doing kid.

and yes, a back up point guard that can score ten points a night and a centre that can play 20 minutes a night and create passing seams and this team would be 500 or better right now.

The only thing dense is you & your pathetically short sighted ideas for the team lol

It literally has you getting laughed at for multiple pages & by half of the board now. Also don't try the "kid" stuff with me when it's quite clear by everyone's reaction that it's ironically you that has the comprehension level of one. No one is buying into your short-sighted hopes of just being an above .500 team, they want to actually contend which again ironically only points to your lack of comprehension.

once again kid, your twisting my words like a dense childish troll.

your basketball knowledge is as weak sauce as your conversational skills.

I've literally just quoted things YOU said, unfortunately you're just far too stupid a) to know how to capitalise your sentences for starters lol b) to explain your viewpoints that again you're being called out by poster after poster for your utter failure to comprehend what garbage ideas you have. But please go on, we're all enjoying a good laugh at your expense...

[italraptors]

How isn't EVERYONE seeing this as an ideal BLOW IT UP situation including MANAGEMENT at this point??

- We are 11th in the East.

- Even if we start winning a bit we are clearly a treadmill team at BEST(worst position for a franchise to be in)

- FVV is clearly flawed and isn't taking us anywhere besides treadmill territory, he's 29 yrs old, declining, and a free agent you don't want to overpay.

- GTJ is a free agent and will be another new contract contributing to this treadmill core.

- Our best player is 28 yrs old, could potentially get a supermax contract which would likely cement us into a treadmill future for years.

- The ceiling for this leadership core (FVV + Siakam) is pretty much sealed - they're both about to be 29 yrs old and max our future as a treadmill team +  both need to be resigned potentially to BIG DEALS! Pivot much orr?

- We could potentially get big returns for our core players who are highly valued around the league.

- We have a promising young player ( Barnes) or two (OG) to potentially boost our rebuild with.

- This is one of the deepest draft in years with a couple potential superstars at the top.

- Unlike past yrs we are currently not far off from top 5 draft lottery odds.

- Choosing not to rebuild/blow it up and resign this core to big deals CLEAR AS DAY cements us into a treadmill team for yrs.

- There are rumors some players are currently disgruntled on the roster.

- By not trading FVV + Trent you either lose for nothing or resign them to deals we'll likely regret, lock us into being a treadmill team.

- This is a turning point moment that requires immediate ACTION (FVV+GTJ) before we lock ourselves into a non-contending future.

- Actually making Pascal Siakam available for trade at his top value EVER could potentially yield a MASSIVE return.

- There are way too many immediate contract decisions that must be made with this current core (FVV+GTJ+Siakam) - choosing to keep current core clearly locks us into a treadmill team with bad contracts.

- The Eastern conference and NBA in general has become so much more improved, this current core convincingly has no path to contending.

We could add more...

It's become overwhelmingly clear, BLOW IT THE F UP MASAI!!!!!!

Is it not if you're not dillusional?

ive been saying this for weeks! thank you.

[agkagk]

?????????

How does getting a centre fix other teams clogging the paint?

lmao.

ask philblackson and barney

ill give you a hint, it has something to do with having a player on the low block that can create a shot for himself.

im sure you three can put it together

Yes & we've concluded that your idiocy knows no bounds. You're literally proposing an idea that only COMPOUNDS the problem. You're both saying we clog the paint too much but want to ADD another player into said area. You can't make up how contradictory & dumb that is

see, this is where your lack of critical thinking skills shows.....

Centres who can create and finish from the low block dont clog the paint they open it up and create spacing for shooters and passers.

right now, its way to easy for opposing defenders to cheat and clog the middle of the court.

No centre ='s no spacing.



here, go learn about what you've been staring at all these years.

"How is rudy gobert a premier floor spacer when he cant shoot": https://www.slcdunk.com/research-statistics-analytics/2019/7/23/20700323/utah-jazz-what-is-nba-spacing-holy-spirit

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Jr.NBA

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/OffBall.html

Boston celtics management gets it, you dont, but they do: https://theathletic.com/3977378/2022/12/07/celtics-joe-mazzulla-system/

Spoiler warning: spacing doesnt just mean 3 point shooting. you see, words have different meanings when used in different contexts.

Im rooting for ya!!!!!

[canz55]

Its true that Pascal is unlikely to be traded midseason. The only way that happens is if Pelicans crack and want to make a finals run right now.

[Harold_and_Kumar]

I think Masai is waiting on two options:

#1 - Trade Fred/GTJ - tank this season and add a blue chipper (plus better fitting players) to Scottie, OG, and Siakam.

#2 - Trade Siakam/Fred, build a younger roster with upside around Scottie/OG/GTJ with a window to compete in 2-3 years.

I think the answer will depend on the return he's getting, particularly for Siakam, and to a lesser extent OG. Either way, I can't imagine Masai is watching this team and not wanting to make a move. The evaluation is over. The team is lifeless and sad to watch and if it goes on much longer their assets will begin to depreciate, namely Fred and also potentially Pascal.

He's doing the right thing by suggesting we're still trying to make the playoffs and turn it around. It sucks for fans because we're worried he isn't seeing what we are, but if you're in his shoes trying to maximize the return you get, why make it clear everything can be had at a cut rate?

[Tha Cynic]

I don't think the Raptors under Masai will ever fully blow anything up. You always want some sort of continuity because you can't sign free agents. If you're constantly rebuilding, you will continue to go through years of suckage when your team prices themselves out. I see more of a retool while shifting timelines. So, if Siakam is traded which I doubt, then it will be for someone who can make this team good again in a year or two.

[PhilBlackson]

lmao.

ask philblackson and barney

ill give you a hint, it has something to do with having a player on the low block that can create a shot for himself.

im sure you three can put it together

Yes & we've concluded that your idiocy knows no bounds. You're literally proposing an idea that only COMPOUNDS the problem. You're both saying we clog the paint too much but want to ADD another player into said area. You can't make up how contradictory & dumb that is

see, this is where your lack of critical thinking skills shows.....

Centres who can create and finish from the low block dont clog the paint they open it up and create spacing for shooters and passers.

Jesus, it's almost baffling just how stupid your posts are & insanely ironic how you question anyone's critical thinking while displaying just how piss poor yours' is

1. Why do you think the post is clogged to begin with?

Could it be all of Pascal/OG/Scottie primarily operate there?! So you believe it's best to bring a C in to FURTHER clog that area (which again is a COMPLAINT that you're making) in order to play to AGAINST their strengths??!? To try & force them out to the perimeter where we are one of the WORST shooting teams (both contested & OPEN -- I know at one point we actually we're THE worst) in the league

2. If anything this team should want a C that can shoot out on the perimeter for the OPPOSITE effect of what you're saying ie/ like when we had Marc near the top of the key to allow Kawhi, Pascal & OG to again play TO THEIR STRENGTHS or even Ibaka to just camp him out more in the perimeter to allow those guys to do what they do BEST

But please go on with your "brilliant" rationale lol it's literally some of the funniest material on here in months. I know you didn't just edit some stupid youtube video about Gobert with no comprehension of different Utah's roster was with Bogi, Mitchell, Conley, Ingles as SHOOTERS on the perimeter for him vs how badly he's ruining things in MIN because he's now clogging the paint for Ant and KAT. You stay racking the Ls lol it's hilarious.

[Duffman100]

and youre response to the second quote was " the idea is to contend not be a top ten team".

stop trying to bait me into an argument. its just dense and trolling what your doing kid.

and yes, a back up point guard that can score ten points a night and a centre that can play 20 minutes a night and create passing seams and this team would be 500 or better right now.

The only thing dense is you & your pathetically short sighted ideas for the team lol

It literally has you getting laughed at for multiple pages & by half of the board now. Also don't try the "kid" stuff with me when it's quite clear by everyone's reaction that it's ironically you that has the comprehension level of one. No one is buying into your short-sighted hopes of just being an above .500 team, they want to actually contend which again ironically only points to your lack of comprehension.

once again kid, your twisting my words like a dense childish troll.

your basketball knowledge is as weak sauce as your conversational skills.

You've both been warned for personal attacks. Please stop this interaction now.

[agkagk]

Yes & we've concluded that your idiocy knows no bounds. You're literally proposing an idea that only COMPOUNDS the problem. You're both saying we clog the paint too much but want to ADD another player into said area. You can't make up how contradictory & dumb that is

see, this is where your lack of critical thinking skills shows.....

Centres who can create and finish from the low block dont clog the paint they open it up and create spacing for shooters and passers.

Jesus, it's almost baffling just how stupid your posts are & insanely ironic how you question anyone's critical thinking while displaying just how piss poor yours' is

1. Why do you think the post is clogged to begin with?

Could it be all of Pascal/OG/Scottie primarily operate there?! So you believe it's best to bring a C in to FURTHER clog that area (which again is a COMPLAINT that you're making) in order to play to AGAINST their strengths??!? To try & force them out to the perimeter where we are one of the WORST shooting teams (both contested & OPEN -- I know at one point we actually we're THE worst) in the league

2. If anything this team should want a C that can shoot out on the perimeter for the OPPOSITE effect of what you're saying ie/ like when we had Marc near the top of the key to allow Kawhi, Pascal & OG to again play TO THEIR STRENGTHS or even Ibaka to just camp him out more in the perimeter to allow those guys to do what they do BEST

But please go on with your "brilliant" rationale lol it's literally some of the funniest material on here in months.

warned, personal attack.

you dont know what your talking about.

We dont have anyone big enough down low to space the floor. its that simple.


im literally going to copy and paste my previous posts with the same links and not bother reading your ranting nonesense.


here, go learn about what you've been staring at all these years.

"How is rudy gobert a premier floor spacer when he cant shoot": https://www.slcdunk.com/research-statistics-analytics/2019/7/23/20700323/utah-jazz-what-is-nba-spacing-holy-spirit

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Jr.NBA

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/OffBall.html

Boston celtics management gets it, you dont, but they do: https://theathletic.com/3977378/2022/12/07/celtics-joe-mazzulla-system/

Spoiler warning: spacing doesnt just mean 3 point shooting. you see, words have different meanings when used in different contexts.

Im rooting for ya!!!!!

[PhilBlackson]

see, this is where your lack of critical thinking skills shows.....

Centres who can create and finish from the low block dont clog the paint they open it up and create spacing for shooters and passers.

Jesus, it's almost baffling just how stupid your posts are & insanely ironic how you question anyone's critical thinking while displaying just how piss poor yours' is

1. Why do you think the post is clogged to begin with?

Could it be all of Pascal/OG/Scottie primarily operate there?! So you believe it's best to bring a C in to FURTHER clog that area (which again is a COMPLAINT that you're making) in order to play to AGAINST their strengths??!? To try & force them out to the perimeter where we are one of the WORST shooting teams (both contested & OPEN -- I know at one point we actually we're THE worst) in the league

2. If anything this team should want a C that can shoot out on the perimeter for the OPPOSITE effect of what you're saying ie/ like when we had Marc near the top of the key to allow Kawhi, Pascal & OG to again play TO THEIR STRENGTHS or even Ibaka to just camp him out more in the perimeter to allow those guys to do what they do BEST

But please go on with your "brilliant" rationale lol it's literally some of the funniest material on here in months.

warned, personal attack.

you dont know what your talking about.

We dont have anyone big enough down low to space the floor. its that simple.


im literally going to copy and paste my previous posts with the same links and not bother reading your ranting nonesense.


here, go learn about what you've been staring at all these years.

"How is rudy gobert a premier floor spacer when he cant shoot": https://www.slcdunk.com/research-statistics-analytics/2019/7/23/20700323/utah-jazz-what-is-nba-spacing-holy-spirit

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Jr.NBA

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/OffBall.html

Boston celtics management gets it, you dont, but they do: https://theathletic.com/3977378/2022/12/07/celtics-joe-mazzulla-system/

Spoiler warning: spacing doesnt just mean 3 point shooting. you see, words have different meanings when used in different contexts.

Im rooting for ya!!!!!

Again showing your failed comprehension of what you're reading & watching with no actual understanding in the differences in roster construction that is REQUIRED to make it work ie/ BOS has MUCH better perimeter shooters all around as did Utah when they had Gobert & as the TWolves don't and exactly why they are struggling but stay racking up those Ls lol.

Masai on the otherhand actually understood OUR roster construction and that Kawhi, Pascal & OG primarily operate from the mid-range to post to be most effective (as does Pascal, OG and Barnes who is even more post oriented than anyone) so he actually did the opposite and had Cs like Marc & Ibaka spread out the floor by putting them on the perimeter which was also the ONLY formula that led to any of the aforementioned teams winning a championship despite your love for BOS & Utah who again had much better perimeter shooting as a whole so again you have a failed concept without the correct pieces that FIT.

Sidebar, none of that should be considered a personal attack Duff, I'm literally pointing to a failed comprehension to understand the differences in roster construction that is at the core of a horribly flawed argument.

[KrazyP]

lmao.

ask philblackson and barney

ill give you a hint, it has something to do with having a player on the low block that can create a shot for himself.

im sure you three can put it together

Yes & we've concluded that your idiocy knows no bounds. You're literally proposing an idea that only COMPOUNDS the problem. You're both saying we clog the paint too much but want to ADD another player into said area. You can't make up how contradictory & dumb that is

see, this is where your lack of critical thinking skills shows.....

Centres who can create and finish from the low block dont clog the paint they open it up and create spacing for shooters and passers.

right now, its way to easy for opposing defenders to cheat and clog the middle of the court.

No centre ='s no spacing.



here, go learn about what you've been staring at all these years.

"How is rudy gobert a premier floor spacer when he cant shoot": https://www.slcdunk.com/research-statistics-analytics/2019/7/23/20700323/utah-jazz-what-is-nba-spacing-holy-spirit

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Jr.NBA

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/OffBall.html

Boston celtics management gets it, you dont, but they do: https://theathletic.com/3977378/2022/12/07/celtics-joe-mazzulla-system/

Spoiler warning: spacing doesnt just mean 3 point shooting. you see, words have different meanings when used in different contexts.

Im rooting for ya!!!!!

On top of this, just having an experienced, decent IQ center with good size setting offball screens would help our scorers actually get more open....give them that extra time to setup to shoot, attack or just make cuts in general which all puts pressure on the D.

That said, Im leaning towards saying this is a team management problem....they've been sitting on the fence...not willing to give up what it takes to fill the obvious holes on the roster and not willing to commit to a full rebuild either. Sometimes its not easy though.....you might know what you need but the price just isnt right.

[agkagk]

Jesus, it's almost baffling just how stupid your posts are & insanely ironic how you question anyone's critical thinking while displaying just how piss poor yours' is

1. Why do you think the post is clogged to begin with?

Could it be all of Pascal/OG/Scottie primarily operate there?! So you believe it's best to bring a C in to FURTHER clog that area (which again is a COMPLAINT that you're making) in order to play to AGAINST their strengths??!? To try & force them out to the perimeter where we are one of the WORST shooting teams (both contested & OPEN -- I know at one point we actually we're THE worst) in the league

2. If anything this team should want a C that can shoot out on the perimeter for the OPPOSITE effect of what you're saying ie/ like when we had Marc near the top of the key to allow Kawhi, Pascal & OG to again play TO THEIR STRENGTHS or even Ibaka to just camp him out more in the perimeter to allow those guys to do what they do BEST

But please go on with your "brilliant" rationale lol it's literally some of the funniest material on here in months.

warned, personal attack.

you dont know what your talking about.

We dont have anyone big enough down low to space the floor. its that simple.


im literally going to copy and paste my previous posts with the same links and not bother reading your ranting nonesense.


here, go learn about what you've been staring at all these years.

"How is rudy gobert a premier floor spacer when he cant shoot": https://www.slcdunk.com/research-statistics-analytics/2019/7/23/20700323/utah-jazz-what-is-nba-spacing-holy-spirit

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Jr.NBA

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/OffBall.html

Boston celtics management gets it, you dont, but they do: https://theathletic.com/3977378/2022/12/07/celtics-joe-mazzulla-system/

Spoiler warning: spacing doesnt just mean 3 point shooting. you see, words have different meanings when used in different contexts.

Im rooting for ya!!!!!

Again showing your failed comprehension of what you're reading & watching with no actual understanding in the differences in roster construction that is REQUIRED to make it work ie/ BOS has MUCH better perimeter shooters all around as did Utah when they had Gobert & as the TWolves don't and exactly why they are struggling but stay racking up those Ls lol.

Sidebar, none of that should be considered a personal attack Duff, I'm literally pointing to a failed comprehension to understand the differences in roster construction that is at the core of a horribly flawed argument.

ok you win, my lack of comprehension is the issue.

boston has better shooters. the end of thinking.

[agkagk]

Yes & we've concluded that your idiocy knows no bounds. You're literally proposing an idea that only COMPOUNDS the problem. You're both saying we clog the paint too much but want to ADD another player into said area. You can't make up how contradictory & dumb that is

see, this is where your lack of critical thinking skills shows.....

Centres who can create and finish from the low block dont clog the paint they open it up and create spacing for shooters and passers.

right now, its way to easy for opposing defenders to cheat and clog the middle of the court.

No centre ='s no spacing.



here, go learn about what you've been staring at all these years.

"How is rudy gobert a premier floor spacer when he cant shoot": https://www.slcdunk.com/research-statistics-analytics/2019/7/23/20700323/utah-jazz-what-is-nba-spacing-holy-spirit

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Jr.NBA

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/OffBall.html

Boston celtics management gets it, you dont, but they do: https://theathletic.com/3977378/2022/12/07/celtics-joe-mazzulla-system/

Spoiler warning: spacing doesnt just mean 3 point shooting. you see, words have different meanings when used in different contexts.

Im rooting for ya!!!!!

On top of this, just having an experienced, decent IQ center with good size setting offball screens would help our scorers actually get more open....give them that extra setup to shoot or attack.

omg thank you so much.

bless you sir!

maybe you can schedule a one on one with philblackson!!!!!

[PhilBlackson]

you dont know what your talking about.

We dont have anyone big enough down low to space the floor. its that simple.


im literally going to copy and paste my previous posts with the same links and not bother reading your ranting nonesense.


here, go learn about what you've been staring at all these years.

"How is rudy gobert a premier floor spacer when he cant shoot": https://www.slcdunk.com/research-statistics-analytics/2019/7/23/20700323/utah-jazz-what-is-nba-spacing-holy-spirit

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Jr.NBA

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/OffBall.html

Boston celtics management gets it, you dont, but they do: https://theathletic.com/3977378/2022/12/07/celtics-joe-mazzulla-system/

Spoiler warning: spacing doesnt just mean 3 point shooting. you see, words have different meanings when used in different contexts.

Im rooting for ya!!!!!

Again showing your failed comprehension of what you're reading & watching with no actual understanding in the differences in roster construction that is REQUIRED to make it work ie/ BOS has MUCH better perimeter shooters all around as did Utah when they had Gobert & as the TWolves don't and exactly why they are struggling but stay racking up those Ls lol.

Sidebar, none of that should be considered a personal attack Duff, I'm literally pointing to a failed comprehension to understand the differences in roster construction that is at the core of a horribly flawed argument.

ok you win, my lack of comprehension is the issue.

Finally something we can all agree on

[Los_29]

If this team continues to struggle then there will be changes at the deadline. GTJ and Fred are the most likely candidates to go. In my opinion, for them to trade OG and/or Pascal, it would have to be an incredible haul. As much as I love OG, if what Zach Lowe is saying is true, then that's something you have to seriously consider.

The team lacks depth and talent but there are some good pieces here. They are just in the wrong roles. Masai has never been a guy to gut teams but there are some desperate teams out there and the right offer might make Masai consider trading one or two of his best players. You just never know. When you lose like this, no one is untouchable.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The next time you think about tanking, look at yourself in the mirror and think about this...Jalen Suggs is a career .229 three point shooter. Just imagine if we listened to these people.

[agkagk]

The next time you think about tanking, look at yourself in the mirror and think about this...Jalen Suggs is a career .229 three point shooter. Just imagine if we listened to these people.

but the 8th overall pick in the draft is the future man!