Raptors should announce retiring Vince Carter's jersey soon

[ThatClockWork]

Do you know this to be 100% fact?

This is what I cannot take seriously. Posts that include statements on things that person can never possibly know with absolute certainty.

You don't know that for sure. Contacts, extensions, timing, ownership willingness to spend are all major factors that go into recruiting

well said, but I find it odd to have to need 100% facts to argue against "PUT US ON THE MAP", which is a fanboy catch-all phrase that is extremely fluid and super make-believe.

I was at the Stoudamire draft and attended every single preseason exhibition game in the city (pre-raptors). Toronto was on the NBA's map the minute the league started heavily researching and testing the viability of putting an NBA franchise here. Add the interest of an investor group, corporate sponsors and adjust for the city's changing demographics... it was a no brainer

Newsflash for the "PUT US ON THE MAP" crowd : Tristan Thompson & Corey Joseph were NEVER going to play Lacrosse

I don't agree with your thought process here. He did put us on the map. That point about Tristan and Corey ... I have no idea where that came from but ... alright?

Vince is iconic, probably still has the best selling Raptors jersey ever here, and is one of the best ever to play the game.

I think the city will retire his jersey eventually just like Orlando eventually did with Shaq.

He did put Toronto on the map through his play, whether or not many will admit to it. If/When it happens, I will be cheering on my feet. He inspired many future generations with the positive aspects of his time in Toronto. It matters.

[nestea]

Interesting topic.

I think the older folks like myself who saw vince play would yes for the retirement Jersey. The younger generation who really never saw him play would say no.

I vote for Vince. Back then raptors wouldnt have been talked about if it wasn't for Vince. That's facts

[SST]

Hes the reason the Raptors didn't have the same fate as the Grizz while they were in Vancouver. His jersey should definitely be retired.

[Reeko]

Can't reward bad behavior with such an honor. Had he left under different circumstances, I would have been cool with it given what he meant to the franchise and basketball in Canada in general.

[maternal85]

Hes the reason the Raptors didn't have the same fate as the Grizz while they were in Vancouver. His jersey should definitely be retired.

Not at all. Learn the economics of the NBA. Owned by MLSE, which owns the arena. This was never our fate. Stop this narrative.

[maternal85]

Been a fan from day 1. When you were ducking birds at the Skydome while trying to watch the games. I remember being upset we traded Jamison for him, as he was the better college player. Of course the trade was already done in advance.

Should he get his numbered retired ? I would if it makes business sense. Basically if he goes to the hall of fame as a Raptor. It'd be good asthetically from a historic standpoint. How he left was horrible. But you have to remember Vince is not an alpha male. He's very feminine. Keep that in mind. Only get it done from a marketing perspective if it makes sense.

[Potential]

It should be retired easily

[adubmac]

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I would retire Kawhi's jersey before anyone else. He might've only been here a year, but he brought us a championship, something that I never thought I would see in my lifetime.

Despite the way he left, Vince brought Raptor fans so many firsts and certainly helped legitimize us as a franchise and Lowry, while never being abe to deliver as the number one (and often number two guy), he still was an anchor during the Raptor's most successful stretch, but neither come close to what Kawhi did for all of us.

[Dennis 37]

Fred!?!

Some of you guys are ridiculous.

Fred accomplished being in the right place at the right time.

Fred never tanked his trade value. I was glad to see him go, but if I was made to choose who to honour, would I choose the guy who worked his butt off to improve every year, or would I pick the guy who coasted on talent and was criticized by his veteran teammates for not working on his game?

What has Fred actually done for the raptors. Yes he was a good piece in a championship team, but he never was the leader and definitly not a starplayer. VC, Lowry, DeRozean, Bosh all were top Players at their peak, something Fred could only dream of.

I'm not arguing that Fred should have his jersery retired. I am arguing that if Vince qualifies surely a player who worked hard to improve his game every year, wasn't dishonest about his playing skill, and was part of a championship team is just as worthy or more so than a player who tanked his trade value so much it set our franchise back years. I was happy to see Fred leave, but I respect him far more than VC.

[Mikistan]

No

[discconnected]

Yeh, right after we retire Damon's number for "putting us on the map" and slightly before we retire Terrence Ross's number for winning the dunk contest.

Gtfoh. Obviously these "fans" didn't live through the era.

[Dennis 37]

This is a no brainer! As much as I like Lowry to receive this honour first , Vince put the team on the map

Maybe Lowry gets a statue

Stop it with this map ****. The Raptors never had attendance problems before Vince or after. Getting attention from American media benefited the Raptors how? How many star players said to their agents, "I want to play with Vince. Get me to Toronto!"? Not one. Getting on the map means players want to come here. Players did not want to come here because of Vince. We are no more on the map than the Charlotte Hornets or the Portland Trailblazers.

Do you know this to be 100% fact?

This is what I cannot take seriously. Posts that include statements on things that person can never possibly know with absolute certainty.

You don't know that for sure. Contacts, extensions, timing, ownership willingness to spend are all major factors that go into recruiting top talent.

Which brings me back to: how do you PERSONALLY know no one wanted to come to Toronto to play with Vince?

"Because no one did" doesn't cut it at this point.

Every couple years someone has to dig up this Vince jersey retirement garbage so in the past I looked up our attendance. Our attendance was fine pre and post Vince.

So after almost 30 years you don't think that at player, just one, being interviewed about his career, wouldn't have mentioned an effort to go to Toronto to play with Vince. Look at Damian Lillard. He demanded to be traded to the Miami Heat. Name one player who made a public demand to come here. Name one player, who in his retirement, said he had wanted to come here.

[Scase]

20 years later, and grown ass men in here still in their feelings, chefkiss.jpg

Interesting topic.

I think the older folks like myself who saw vince play would yes for the retirement Jersey. The younger generation who really never saw him play would say no.

I vote for Vince. Back then raptors wouldnt have been talked about if it wasn't for Vince. That's facts

You literally couldn't go a single day without VC and the Raps on sports center....the ESPN one. Lead the ASG voting 3 years in a row, and quite frankly, the only reason anyone gave a single **** about the Raps outside of toronto.

I can get not wanting his number retired, but the attempt to act like he wasn't a transcendent star in the NBA those years is just stupid. But I'm sure all bad players are in trade rumours to swap with Kobe.

[Dennis 37]

Can't reward bad behavior with such an honor. Had he left under different circumstances, I would have been cool with it given what he meant to the franchise and basketball in Canada in general.

Exactly. Had he played to the best of his ability while waiting for a trade and we got a decent haul to build with Bosh, then nobody would be mad at him. Yes Babcock should have been smarter, but Carter had us all fooled. We actually thought he was L.A. Lakers Mark Gasol level of washed.

[Reeko]

Interesting topic.

I think the older folks like myself who saw vince play would yes for the retirement Jersey. The younger generation who really never saw him play would say no.

I vote for Vince. Back then raptors wouldnt have been talked about if it wasn't for Vince. That's facts

I saw him play and I vote no.

[Dennis 37]

20 years later, and grown ass men in here still in their feelings, chefkiss.jpg

Interesting topic.

I think the older folks like myself who saw vince play would yes for the retirement Jersey. The younger generation who really never saw him play would say no.

I vote for Vince. Back then raptors wouldnt have been talked about if it wasn't for Vince. That's facts

You literally couldn't go a single day without VC and the Raps on sports center....the ESPN one. Lead the ASG voting 3 years in a row, and quite frankly, the only reason anyone gave a single **** about the Raps outside of toronto.

I can get not wanting his number retired, but the attempt to act like he wasn't a transcendent star in the NBA those years is just stupid. But I'm sure all bad players are in trade rumours to swap with Kobe.

I do not deny he was a transcendent star. My point has always been that there are those that think if we didn't have Vince this franchise would have moved or folded. It's just ludicrous. One could argue that if we had kept Antawn Jamison and not traded him for Vince, we might have had a much more enjoyable, on average, 2000 - 2010. Maybe without another huge star on the team McGrady might have stayed.


As for feelings when has realgm not been about bitter? Bitter runs this place. It lives in every hoped for player transaction and reaction to player transaction. It lives in reactions to every coach rotation decision and dnp. Why would anyone be surprised?

[SharoneWright]

All world talent.

Quitter that put himself over the team. Accepted zero responsibility. Don't want that stench hanging in our rafters.

[Scase]

20 years later, and grown ass men in here still in their feelings, chefkiss.jpg

Interesting topic.

I think the older folks like myself who saw vince play would yes for the retirement Jersey. The younger generation who really never saw him play would say no.

I vote for Vince. Back then raptors wouldnt have been talked about if it wasn't for Vince. That's facts

You literally couldn't go a single day without VC and the Raps on sports center....the ESPN one. Lead the ASG voting 3 years in a row, and quite frankly, the only reason anyone gave a single **** about the Raps outside of toronto.

I can get not wanting his number retired, but the attempt to act like he wasn't a transcendent star in the NBA those years is just stupid. But I'm sure all bad players are in trade rumours to swap with Kobe.

I do not deny he was a transcendent star. My point has always been that there are those that think if we didn't have Vince this franchise would have moved or folded. It's just ludicrous. One could argue that if we had kept Antawn Jamison and not traded him for Vince, we might have had a much more enjoyable, on average, 2000 - 2010. Maybe without another huge star on the team McGrady might have stayed.


As for feelings when has realgm not been about bitter? Bitter runs this place. It lives in every hoped for player transaction and reaction to player transaction. It lives in reactions to every coach rotation decision and dnp. Why would anyone be surprised?

The point is that in his tenure here, VC had a disproportionate impact on basketball in Canada overall. I'm not someone who thinks the team would have moved or folded without him, but Canada basketball and a fair chunk of new players in the league now, likely wouldn't exist without him paving the way and giving them some identity in the NBA.

If we had Jamison, this team wouldn't have ever even seen the playoffs lol.

[Raptorfan2012]

Vince will get his jersey retired despite the way things ended with the Raptors. He was our first All-Star, first Raptor to make it to the All-NBA 2nd and 3rd team, and he took us to our first playoffs and our first playoff series win. He really helped the Raptors remove their expansion tag and put the Toronto Raptors on the NBA map. That is enough for his jersey to hang up on the rafters.

[Badonkadonk]

Do you know this to be 100% fact?

This is what I cannot take seriously. Posts that include statements on things that person can never possibly know with absolute certainty.

You don't know that for sure. Contacts, extensions, timing, ownership willingness to spend are all major factors that go into recruiting

well said, but I find it odd to have to need 100% facts to argue against "PUT US ON THE MAP", which is a fanboy catch-all phrase that is extremely fluid and super make-believe.

I was at the Stoudamire draft and attended every single preseason exhibition game in the city (pre-raptors). Toronto was on the NBA's map the minute the league started heavily researching and testing the viability of putting an NBA franchise here. Add the interest of an investor group, corporate sponsors and adjust for the city's changing demographics... it was a no brainer

Newsflash for the "PUT US ON THE MAP" crowd : Tristan Thompson & Corey Joseph were NEVER going to play Lacrosse

Anybody who was grown during that time knows that Vince was a nice bump for the Raps' popularity, but NBA hoops was going to be more than fine in Toronto with or without Vince.

We can debate the semantics of "put us on the map", but for those who contend that the franchise would've been in trouble without Vince, that's just wrong.