What if Giannis chooses and Toronto on short list - Does this change Conversation?

[Pointgod]

I agree with you on that part. Scotty and #9 would be going the other way. But my main point is that Giannis has alot of leverage in choosing where he goes. This doesn't mean the bucks will have to take any package the selected team offers.

If giannis chooses a team....it's an indication he will extend with them next summer. No team will offer the big package without being on Giannis' shortlist.

I doubt it's true....but if Giannis specifies it must be an Eastern team.....that bodes REALLY well for us. It means OKC/spurs/rockets will NOT put together the package they are capable of (because giannis would be a 2 year rental).

Here’s where I disagree with you. There are lots of teams that could offer a better package than Toronto’s best offer without Barnes for 2 years to convince Giannis to resign. Jimmy Butler tried to play hard ball to get to Phoenix and he ended up going in Golden State. Toronto’s package without Barnes is pretty weak for a player of Giannis’ caliber.

Is it possible you are replying in the wrong thread or to the wrong person? I have never said anything about toronto's package not including Barnes. Butler was different because he was an expiring and the return package was relatively small.

There's gonna be two different type packages a team like OKC would trade for Giannis:

1. The one where they are named to his shortlist (indicating he will extend next summer): something like Chet, IH, multiple picks

2 The one they'd offer if they were specifically NOT included in his shortlist (2 year rental): no chet, less picks.

This is why it DEFINITELY changes the conversation if Giannis gives the bucks a shortlist of say toronto, Brooklyn, Orlando (wants to stay in the east). Effectively, we'd only be bargaining with teams on the shortlist and don't have to worry about the packages that the spurs, thunder can concoct. If giannis still had 4 years left on his contract....it wouldn't matter if he gave them a shortlist. Bucks could simply go with the highest bidder. Giannis would have no leverage.

It's really our only hope.

But to address your point....even if giannis gave the bucks a shortlist of Orlando, Brooklyn, Toronto....I agree with you that Barnes is still gonna be necessary to include.

Yeah the premise of this thread is that Toronto can get Giannis without including Barnes. That’s why I’ve been hammering home that point. If we both agree that Barnes and #9 is the starting point on the short list, I think we’re competitive but it depends on the direction Milwaukee is looking to go in at the end of the day.

Milwaukee with Barnes instead of Giannis is most likely a lottery team and they don’t even have their own pick next year if they’re worse than New Orleans. I could make the same argument with Orlando if Franz is the only piece they’re giving up but Brooklyn has the assets to trade the Pelicans or Trail Blazers for Milwaukee to get their picks back.

I think the point is moot because there’s always teams that would make a trade for Giannis even if they aren’t on the short list. Remember Dame was trying to force his way out of Miami and the Bucks came out of nowhere. These things happen all the time in the NBA.

[M3tro]

What conversation is there?

You get Giannis and work with it on the fly.

[Appostis]

If this year's pick was top 2..maybe even 3 you might have a chance to make a trade package without Barnes.

With 9th pick being the best pick in the package they can offer.. can't see it happening. If they are willing..you take it and run but let's be honest with ourselves this is not 2k.

If the Raptors had #2 they would still not be able to trade for giannis without Barnes.

It's crazy how casual basketball fans over-value draft picks.

Ingram is better than the expected outcome for the 3rd overall pick. But watch the tank ppl deny this. They are in love with the roulette wheel.

Watch how jaded they are about Brandon Ingram. Watch how overly optimistic they are about the top 5 prospects under the age of 20.

It's weird. They love young boys and they are jaded about grown men. Don't blame me for their weirdness. Doesn't exist in any other sports fan archetype except for basketball tanker trolls.

There ain't no sri lankan cricket fans that hate all the cricket players older than 23 lol. This is a very specific thing.

I blame video game simulators. They should have never given us video game general manager modes.

I think it's also the nature of basketball viewership. So ppl watch the game and see the ball either go down or out. And this becomes some sort of roulette wheel for ppl. So many ppl who have no understanding of basketball convince themselves of being able to understand the game because they familiarize themselves with stats that determine their fantasy league outcomes.

If you disagree with Ime udoka and believe that Fred vanvleet is a horrible basketball player....that's the best litmus test. If it confounds you why Fred isn't playing in China....you are a casual fan that doesn't understand the game.

Which makes sense why such casuals gravitate towards young prospects who have never proven they can play ball with real men.

So strange...there are not large vocal contingencies of hockey fans that claim veterans are sabotaging prospects lol. You don't see that with NFL or MLB fans either.

Sure thing bro.

[ConSarnit]

If this year's pick was top 2..maybe even 3 you might have a chance to make a trade package without Barnes.

With 9th pick being the best pick in the package they can offer.. can't see it happening. If they are willing..you take it and run but let's be honest with ourselves this is not 2k.

If the Raptors had #2 they would still not be able to trade for giannis without Barnes.

It's crazy how casual basketball fans over-value draft picks.

Ingram is better than the expected outcome for the 3rd overall pick. But watch the tank ppl deny this. They are in love with the roulette wheel.

Watch how jaded they are about Brandon Ingram. Watch how overly optimistic they are about the top 5 prospects under the age of 20.

It's weird. They love young boys and they are jaded about grown men. Don't blame me for their weirdness. Doesn't exist in any other sports fan archetype except for basketball tanker trolls.

There ain't no sri lankan cricket fans that hate all the cricket players older than 23 lol. This is a very specific thing.

I blame video game simulators. They should have never given us video game general manager modes.

I think it's also the nature of basketball viewership. So ppl watch the game and see the ball either go down or out. And this becomes some sort of roulette wheel for ppl. So many ppl who have no understanding of basketball convince themselves of being able to understand the game because they familiarize themselves with stats that determine their fantasy league outcomes.

If you disagree with Ime udoka and believe that Fred vanvleet is a horrible basketball player....that's the best litmus test. If it confounds you why Fred isn't playing in China....you are a casual fan that doesn't understand the game.

Which makes sense why such casuals gravitate towards young prospects who have never proven they can play ball with real men.

So strange...there are not large vocal contingencies of hockey fans that claim veterans are sabotaging prospects lol. You don't see that with NFL or MLB fans either.

You don’t get to call other posters casuals when earlier in this thread you were arguing the Mavs did the right thing by keeping the Luka trade negotiations secret.

[TheRaptor!]

Be realistic

If you were Giannis would you want to go to the West for that blood bath or stay in the East with Knicks and Pacers stopping you from reaching the finals? Cavs shown they are frauds, Boston out for a year

Bucks will have to do him right and not trade him to a bottom feeder, considering only teams in the East, who are better trade chips than Scottie? Mobley and Franz and thats about it.

I think if he wants just an East team he might just choose Knicks....since he tweeted a while ago his fav city is New York......Question would be what will the Knicks offer since they do not have many draft picks to trade....Would Knicks really offer up OG+Bridges? Prolly gonna be the asking price....Or he goes to Nets to build his own thing there...

He is too old to build anything with the Nets, he dont have much time to waste

Knicks about to reach the Finals, if it aint broke dont fix it. Would YOU trade Barnes and 9th for OG and Mikal? Exactly.

Its well known we were chasing him in free agency, this is not a pipe dream, we will go after him and we will get him this time.

The less we hear about it now, the better, because too much noise is how deals fall through.

[Prestige]

Why waste our time? No chance he goes to a rebuilding team that finished with a worse record than the Bucks, in Canada. He’s trying to win rings on a ready made team and enjoy the sun. He’ll go to a Texas or Florida based team.

[TheRaptor!]

Why waste our time? No chance he goes to a rebuilding team that finished with a worse record than the Bucks, in Canada. He’s trying to win rings on a ready made team and enjoy the sun. He’ll go to a Texas or Florida based team.

If you were Giannis would YOU want to play in the West? Every night youre up against a star player. In the East you got the Knicks and Pacers in your way only.

Florida? Miami has no assets, Orl has no shooting which is desperately needed with a Giannis based team.

We are literally the team that makes the most sense.

Name me a team that is better than

Quickley RJ Ingram Giannis Poetl after the trade

Knicks are already going to be in the Finals, why would they even try to mess up whats working? Further more, why would the Bucks value OG/Mikal/KAT over Scottie and 9th pick + our future picks? NYK can't trade any more picks.

[mdenny]

If this year's pick was top 2..maybe even 3 you might have a chance to make a trade package without Barnes.

With 9th pick being the best pick in the package they can offer.. can't see it happening. If they are willing..you take it and run but let's be honest with ourselves this is not 2k.

If the Raptors had #2 they would still not be able to trade for giannis without Barnes.

It's crazy how casual basketball fans over-value draft picks.

Ingram is better than the expected outcome for the 3rd overall pick. But watch the tank ppl deny this. They are in love with the roulette wheel.

Watch how jaded they are about Brandon Ingram. Watch how overly optimistic they are about the top 5 prospects under the age of 20.

It's weird. They love young boys and they are jaded about grown men. Don't blame me for their weirdness. Doesn't exist in any other sports fan archetype except for basketball tanker trolls.

There ain't no sri lankan cricket fans that hate all the cricket players older than 23 lol. This is a very specific thing.

I blame video game simulators. They should have never given us video game general manager modes.

I think it's also the nature of basketball viewership. So ppl watch the game and see the ball either go down or out. And this becomes some sort of roulette wheel for ppl. So many ppl who have no understanding of basketball convince themselves of being able to understand the game because they familiarize themselves with stats that determine their fantasy league outcomes.

If you disagree with Ime udoka and believe that Fred vanvleet is a horrible basketball player....that's the best litmus test. If it confounds you why Fred isn't playing in China....you are a casual fan that doesn't understand the game.

Which makes sense why such casuals gravitate towards young prospects who have never proven they can play ball with real men.

So strange...there are not large vocal contingencies of hockey fans that claim veterans are sabotaging prospects lol. You don't see that with NFL or MLB fans either.

You don’t get to call other posters casuals when earlier in this thread you were arguing the Mavs did the right thing by keeping the Luka trade negotiations secret.

I didn't say they did the right thing. I said they had no choice.

[bballsparkin]

You don’t get to call other posters casuals when earlier in this thread you were arguing the Mavs did the right thing by keeping the Luka trade negotiations secret.

Calling folks casuals is lame. troll like which is ironic.

[Scase]

Why waste our time? No chance he goes to a rebuilding team that finished with a worse record than the Bucks, in Canada. He’s trying to win rings on a ready made team and enjoy the sun. He’ll go to a Texas or Florida based team.

If you were Giannis would YOU want to play in the West? Every night youre up against a star player. In the East you got the Knicks and Pacers in your way only.

Florida? Miami has no assets, Orl has no shooting which is desperately needed with a Giannis based team.

We are literally the team that makes the most sense.

Name me a team that is better than

Quickley RJ Ingram Giannis Poetl after the trade

Knicks are already going to be in the Finals, why would they even try to mess up whats working? Further more, why would the Bucks value OG/Mikal/KAT over Scottie and 9th pick + our future picks? NYK can't trade any more picks.

Giannis never struck me as the type of guy who doesn't want a challenge. Ultimately he probably goes where the best chance of winning is, presuming that's what's still most important to him, west be damned.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

- We know the connection with Masai.

- Giannis has made comments about playing with Scottie and Raptors hypothetically have pieces to still have a win-now team around him.

- I doubt he would say "only Toronto" but what if they are amongst a finalist of teams he would welcome a trade?

a) wanting to go to competent franchise
b) with some win now talent --- how would we stack up then?

Does an RJ, Dick, Shead all the picks package not even get the conversation started?

- An established up and coming player (RJ)
- Promising young player top 10 pick (Dick)
- Interesting PG prospect (Shead)
- Another top 10 pick deep draft(9th overall - 2025)
- All remaining picks possible to trade

Is it a complete pipe dream even in that scenario?

PG- Quickley
SG - Ingram
SF- Barnes
PF- Giannis
C- Poeltl

Walter, Obaji, Mogbo, Battle, Boucher, Lawson, 2nd round big?

Is that a championship favorite after OKC?

this team ain't winning a chip with Poeltl at center.

Id trust Poeltl over any of our players. You obviously don't watch games

I watch them and the product of the team is not good the last two years ever since Poeltl was acquired.

Now, that being said, I didn't say Poeltl was not good but as currently constructed and what Poeltl offers the team, this team would serve much better with a better two way player with range vs what Poeltl has shown the last two years.

Thay being said, Poeltl is a good player. But not for this team. Well not until he can show more range in his game. It happened to Brook Lopez I suppose.

[Tacoma]

We're debating a lot on this "what if" he chooses Toronto question, but going beyond the hypothetical, what has Giannis actually said? Well... we have two instances to draw from:

(1) When asked on X (Twitter) yesterday what is his favorite city to play? His direct response was: New York.

Read on Twitter

(2) When asked by Serge Ibaka a few years back, "true or false, one day Giannis will play for the Toronto Raptors"? He responded with the preface "I'm authentic and I'm a man of my word" and then he said: "Let's go with False, let's go with false, yes".

Watch on YouTube

Giannis has also said repeatedly in interviews: "I want to win another Championship." If this is still the goal, then there are better teams he can go to for a better chance to achieve this goal (i.e., not Toronto).

So, ultimately, what is the chance that Giannis joins the Raptors? To quote a famous line from Giannis' favorite city, New York: Fuhgeddaboudit!

[SFour]

People, get it together. There is no trade for Giannis without Scottie going the other way, unless Masai has some dirt on Horst, or he's on the take like Nico was or something.

Stop thinking we can come out after that trade with our best player/asset, it's just insanity.

It just gets annoying how people put together fantasy trades on this board with no level of thought. You CANNOT get Giannis without sending Barnes the other way. The whole point of the deal for Milwaukee would be to get a high level young talent back. Otherwise they'd just trade with someone who is offering that (Green from Houston even though I don't rate him, etc.)

anything is possible...remember everyone thought the Kawhi trade wasn't happening without Raptors giving up both Siakam and OG......a trade without giving up Barnes is definitely possible...you would just have to give up more picks.

[MoneyBall]

If we are on the short list, it’s just for leverage as usual. Toronto teams always used as leverage.

Wouldn't that work against him, though? Why would Giannis want his new team to give up more assets?

[YogurtProducer]

Why waste our time? No chance he goes to a rebuilding team that finished with a worse record than the Bucks, in Canada. He’s trying to win rings on a ready made team and enjoy the sun. He’ll go to a Texas or Florida based team.

If you were Giannis would YOU want to play in the West? Every night youre up against a star player. In the East you got the Knicks and Pacers in your way only.

Florida? Miami has no assets, Orl has no shooting which is desperately needed with a Giannis based team.

We are literally the team that makes the most sense.

Name me a team that is better than

Quickley RJ Ingram Giannis Poetl after the trade

Knicks are already going to be in the Finals, why would they even try to mess up whats working? Further more, why would the Bucks value OG/Mikal/KAT over Scottie and 9th pick + our future picks? NYK can't trade any more picks.

Giannis never struck me as the type of guy who doesn't want a challenge. Ultimately he probably goes where the best chance of winning is, presuming that's what's still most important to him, west be damned.

I dont disagree with you, but if winning is what is most important his best bet is to stay east.

Going to west drastically decreases his chances. He always seems to get banged up to. being out east increases his chances to rest

[NotMyKawhi]

Sabonis is more likely. IQ, ocahi, 9 and 2 future 1sts.

Scottie, RJ, BI, Sabonis, Poeltl
Shead, Dick, Jakobe, mogbo, blazers pick.

[Raps Next GM]

I only read the first couple of pages of this thread and it was giving me a headache.

Giannis is a top 3-5 player in the league and is still relatively young.
Barnes would have to be the centrepiece of any return, and certainly not the only asset. After the Nico debacle with the Luka trade, no GM is trading away a talent like that for pennies on the dollar again.

RJ, Dick, Shahed, the #9 pick might be OUR best assets beyond Scottie, but that doesn’t make them exceptional. Any suggestion that a package built around them could fetch Giannis is absurd.

Giannis is not going to insist on Toronto only. Why would he? He is going to leave the city where he is a god and a team that is an annual playoff team for a worse team that has been a non contender for years, and would be stripped bare in order to acquire him? It’s a lateral move at best.
We have to stop overrating his friendship with Masai. He’s not going to insist on a worse situation as a token of friendship.

And the “his value plummets as he nears the end of his contract” suggestion is ridiculous. Heck, the Raptors gave up a first round pick for Poetl’s expiring contract, but teams are going to shy away from a top 5 in his prime player with two years left on his deal?

And someone mentioned the Luka deal needing to be confidential or he could torpedo his value. While there is some merit to that premise, the Mavs settled for much less than they could have gotten in an open market even with Luka refusing to extend.

While I would love to see Giannis here, for what we would have to lose to acquire him makes it a pointless exercise IMO. He would be nearing the end of his career, and certainly his prime, by the time the Raptors could restock the cupboard around him.

[RoteSchroder]

Buck's GM says he's going for blood and wants to gut the team of whoever he's trading Giannis to. So to gut our team:

Giannis
Kuzma

FOR

Scottie Barnes, RJ Barrett, Gradey Dick, Ja'Kobe, Chomche, 4 1sts (draft and trade Maluach (2025) + 2026 1st + 2028 1st + 2030 1st, 3 pick swaps (2027, 2029, 2031)

Bring over Lopez, Portis, Lowry (Garrett Temple replacement) through FA

Poeltl / Brook Lopez (vet min)
Giannis / Kuzma / Bobby Portis (MLE)
Ingram / Mogbo / Battle
Ochai / AJ Lawson / Jared Rhoden
IQ / Shead / Lowry (vet min)

Would you guys gut the team and how does this compare to potential Spurs/Houston/OKC/Nets packages?

[JB7]

We're debating a lot on this "what if" he chooses Toronto question, but going beyond the hypothetical, what has Giannis actually said? Well... we have two instances to draw from:

(1) When asked on X (Twitter) yesterday what is his favorite city to play? His direct response was: New York.

Read on Twitter

(2) When asked by Serge Ibaka a few years back, "true or false, one day Giannis will play for the Toronto Raptors"? He responded with the preface "I'm authentic and I'm a man of my word" and then he said: "Let's go with False, let's go with false, yes".

Watch on YouTube

Giannis has also said repeatedly in interviews: "I want to win another Championship." If this is still the goal, then there are better teams he can go to for a better chance to achieve this goal (i.e., not Toronto).

So, ultimately, what is the chance that Giannis joins the Raptors? To quote a famous line from Giannis' favorite city, New York: Fuhgeddaboudit!

Yep, the way this league is going, it will be a straight up swap of Giannis for Towns

[Harry Palmer]

What if Giannis secretly kidnaps the Bucks GM in order to fulfill his childhood oath to his dying father to play for the Raptors? Sounds unlikely, but hey, it wasn’t supposed to rain the other day but did! Therefore I think this is almost a certainty!