How is this not a super Mid plan? what's the pitch on our direction

[MiamiSPX]

Anyone who thinks RealGM commenters would do a better job running an NBA franchise than Masai can’t be taken seriously

Pontificating about what we would do differently is, um, the whole point of this site. I mean, it's right in the name lol.

[Duffman100]

Anyone who thinks RealGM commenters would do a better job running an NBA franchise than Masai can’t be taken seriously

Pontificating about what we would do differently is, um, the whole point of this site. I mean, it's right in the name lol.

I think your statement is different than what he's saying.

[Jadoogar]

Again, there are so many variables:

1) Does Scottie continue to improve?

2) Does Quickley emerge as a legit top tier starting point guard. He was hurt for most of last season so we barely got to see him.

3) How does the #9 pick pan out? Is it a bust, is it a role player, is it a good starter or do we find a diamond in the rough like a Booker or a Mitchell or a George or Kawhi or a Giannis that all went in the 9-15 range?

4) Do Walters and Gradey continue to improve?

1) it's going to need to be a drastic jump considering his regression last year
2) Entering his age 26 season, health will be his biggest improvement mark
3) The median outcome is a rotation player. A good starter would be a pretty great outcome. Expecting a Booker or Mitchell is setting ourselves up for disappointment.
4) I think they both have starter upside but i do not see any allstar selections in their future. Starter level player is pretty great considering where they were selected but i don't think they are changing the fortunes of the franchise

The main thing is Scottie. Can he be a star? I don't think he'll be a primary scoring option for a good team but neither is Haliburton. If he can get to #2 level scoring option, we may be cooking.

[Jadoogar]

I don't think this roster is hopeless. I actually think there's a lot of talent. And if scottie is capable of putting together a monster defensive season I can envision the team being a 4-6 seed.

If a bunch of things go right, i could see this happening. But even if it does, what does that mean? T

he East is really bad. You've got 3 good teams at the top in Indiana, NYK and Cleveland. Boston probably takes the year off with Tatum's injury (they are still probably better than us). After that you have the rising young teams in Detroit and Orlando. Then the wild cards in Philly and Milwaukee. We are in the next tier with the Heat, Chicago, Atlanta.

Could we climb a tier? Sure, if everything goes right. Detroit/Orlando could have step back seasons. Philly could remain injured. Bucks could trade Giannis. We would be the skinniest person at fat camp.

[MiamiSPX]

I don't think this roster is hopeless. I actually think there's a lot of talent. And if scottie is capable of putting together a monster defensive season I can envision the team being a 4-6 seed.

If a bunch of things go right, i could see this happening. But even if it does, what does that mean? T

It would mean we are watching much better basketball than we have for the last 3 seasons. I can't speak for anyone else, but I desperately want that (as a newly minted Anti-Tank Member).

[DreamTeam09]

I don't think this roster is hopeless. I actually think there's a lot of talent. And if scottie is capable of putting together a monster defensive season I can envision the team being a 4-6 seed.

If a bunch of things go right, i could see this happening. But even if it does, what does that mean? T

he East is really bad. You've got 3 good teams at the top in Indiana, NYK and Cleveland. Boston probably takes the year off with Tatum's injury (they are still probably better than us). After that you have the rising young teams in Detroit and Orlando. Then the wild cards in Philly and Milwaukee. We are in the next tier with the Heat, Chicago, Atlanta.

Could we climb a tier? Sure, if everything goes right. Detroit/Orlando could have step back seasons. Philly could remain injured. Bucks could trade Giannis. We would be the skinniest person at fat camp.

But what is the flipside to your sentiments, sit there and do nothing, tear it down again, go all in? All 3 options are still available, no1 just wants to play the waiting game.

Even to all the TWO ppl, what doesn't it matter when we tank, wether that's now or in 3 yrs from now.

[kalel123]

Masai Ujiri's just doing what he's always been doing. Rinse and repeat strategy since Lowry/DeMar years. Keep building on the core and collecting assets and hope to strike on a buy-low trade for a star. Of course, he's failed at that with the last core of Siakam/OG/FVV when he failed to build any kind of decent depth through any means while their salaries went on verge of ballooning to uncontrollable stage and then dragged his feet when it was clear it was time to let go. And the current core is on a very shaky ground and already, they are getting paid before actually doing anything as a team. NBA landscape also changed enough that I don't know if his slow approach is going to work like it did... I mean proof is in the pudding.

Will see how this round goes but I really hope they reset from top to bottom if the team fails to reach playoffs for whatever reason. Doesn't matter at this point, Ujiri sealed the deal when he made play for Ingram and locked him to an extension IMO.

[Jadoogar]

I don't think this roster is hopeless. I actually think there's a lot of talent. And if scottie is capable of putting together a monster defensive season I can envision the team being a 4-6 seed.

If a bunch of things go right, i could see this happening. But even if it does, what does that mean? T

he East is really bad. You've got 3 good teams at the top in Indiana, NYK and Cleveland. Boston probably takes the year off with Tatum's injury (they are still probably better than us). After that you have the rising young teams in Detroit and Orlando. Then the wild cards in Philly and Milwaukee. We are in the next tier with the Heat, Chicago, Atlanta.

Could we climb a tier? Sure, if everything goes right. Detroit/Orlando could have step back seasons. Philly could remain injured. Bucks could trade Giannis. We would be the skinniest person at fat camp.

But what is the flipside to your sentiments, sit there and do nothing, tear it down again, go all in? All 3 options are still available, no1 just wants to play the waiting game.

Even to all the TWO ppl, what doesn't it matter when we tank, wether that's now or in 3 yrs from now.

Unfortunately, i think our only option now is to sit and do nothing. Just let this roster play it out, there's not much we can change at this point. We committed to this roster when we traded for Ingram.

My only point is to temper expectations. I don't think this is a good team and even if by some series of fortunate events, we can grab the 4th seed, i would caution putting too much stock in that because of the circumstances.

[YogurtProducer]

Why is this current roster viewed as the final product?

because
1) we are capped financially and
2) soon to be capped in draft standings (too good to be in the lottery) and
3) our top guys are not showing much growth anymore

How are we capped? We have exactly 2 players on the books longer than 2 years.

[YogurtProducer]

We have better assets on the roster right now vs when Masai took over.

Posters acting like Masai was lucky to have the collection of talent the Raptors did at the end of 2013 season are delusional

Yeah man, who needs Lowry who is the GROAT, who needs DD who was integral to trading for Kawhi, Or Jonas and Ross who we flipped to get the best big man rotation this team has ever had. He did it all on his own, built the team from the ground up.

So by this logic, GMs should get no credit unless they inherit a team that has zero players and no picks?

Are we seriously acting like Lowry/DD/Ross/Jonas was some champiosnhip contending core than Masai just had to coast with to win?

[YogurtProducer]

Why is this current roster viewed as the final product?

Exactly

PG Lowry - FVV
SG Derozan - Delon
SF Ross - Powell
PF Siakam - CJMiles - Bruno
C Poeltl - JV

Trade for Ibaka, Kawhi and Marc Gasol!

I would say that Brandon Ingram is the first move.

In 2013-14, the first year we made the playoffs with Masai, our opening night roster was:

Lowry - Augustin - Buycks
Demar - Ross - Stone
Gay - Fields - Daye
Amir - Hansborough - Acy
Jonas - Gray

By yearend, it was
Lowry - Vasquez - De Colo - Buycks
Demar - Fields - Stone
Ross - Salmons
Amir - Pat - Novak
Jonas - Hayes - Gray

The next year we added Lou Will, Bebe, and James Johnson for the 2014-15 year.

By 2015-16 we made an ECF after adding Carroll, Biyombo, and Joseph. Oh and we drafted Delon and Powell.

Then we added Anuonby/Poeltl/Siakam/FVV the two years after.

But for some reason, people think we are gonna roll the same 15 guys on this team for the next half decade or something.

[nikster]

I feel like we've had this conversation 1000x somewhere else in this forum. But I COULD be wrong.

Only 974 times.

The fact that people are making these threads year in and year out, is an indicator of the organization than the people making the threads I'd say. This used to be the norm during the BC years, and it looks like it's trending again over the past 4 or so years

It's just an indication that some people can't fathom any strategy other than tank or win now. We were getting similar posts during the Derozan era too

[dTox]

Only 974 times.

The fact that people are making these threads year in and year out, is an indicator of the organization than the people making the threads I'd say. This used to be the norm during the BC years, and it looks like it's trending again over the past 4 or so years

It's just an indication that some people can't fathom any strategy other than tank or win now. We were getting similar posts during the Derozan era too

Our end results over the past 5 years, at best has been a first round exit, so you can't fault the people for treating the situation like it did with BC, since those times also ended in similar fashion. They were in the wrong for doing it in the Derozan era because we've had a top 4 seed year in and year out, very different scenario. I'm happy to be a glass half full person if Masai can right the ship next season, but time's running out for him in TO, it's close to make or break next year.

[redeye514]

Pretty sure most of this board called all of NYK, Indy and Wolves all 'mid' at the beginning of the year...

[Tacoma]

Masai Ujiri's just doing what he's always been doing. Rinse and repeat strategy since Lowry/DeMar years. Keep building on the core and collecting assets and hope to strike on a buy-low trade for a star. Of course, he's failed at that with the last core of Siakam/OG/FVV when he failed to build any kind of decent depth through any means while their salaries went on verge of ballooning to uncontrollable stage and then dragged his feet when it was clear it was time to let go. And the current core is on a very shaky ground and already, they are getting paid before actually doing anything as a team. NBA landscape also changed enough that I don't know if his slow approach is going to work like it did... I mean proof is in the pudding.

Will see how this round goes but I really hope they reset from top to bottom if the team fails to reach playoffs for whatever reason. Doesn't matter at this point, Ujiri sealed the deal when he made play for Ingram and locked him to an extension IMO.

This is it - at least since 2020 - we've started each season trying to win, then around Dec/Jan before trade deadline, either pivot to tanking (2021, 2024, 2025) or sell picks to push for the playoffs (2022, 2023) - as you allude, rinse lather repeat.

A key difference however is 2026 will be Masai's contract year, so he'll more likely go all out to win next season rather than pivot to tanking because because he can't afford to go 3 straight years of tanking and expect to have his contract renewed.

In this light, one of the biggest thing to do this coming season is to keep BI healthy. We likely treat him with kid gloves like make him become more of a shooter instead of driving to be basket which increases the risk of injury, and load manage him like we did with Kawhi.

This will be a make it or break it season for Masai. For sake of his contract & his ego, he absolutely needs the team to win and show potential.

[nikster]

The fact that people are making these threads year in and year out, is an indicator of the organization than the people making the threads I'd say. This used to be the norm during the BC years, and it looks like it's trending again over the past 4 or so years

It's just an indication that some people can't fathom any strategy other than tank or win now. We were getting similar posts during the Derozan era too

Our end results over the past 5 years, at best has been a first round exit, so you can't fault the people for treating the situation like it did with BC, since those times also ended in similar fashion. They were in the wrong for doing it in the Derozan era because we've had a top 4 seed year in and year out, very different scenario. I'm happy to be a glass half full person if Masai can right the ship next season, but time's running out for him in TO, it's close to make or break next year.

Yeah but we completely rebuilt a new core at last seasons deadline and this coming season is basically year 1 of that new core. It's clear the plan is to compete this year and see how they do.

[Anticon]

It is a mid plan that suffers most from not having that core piece (Lowry) that you can pivot roster construction around.

Barnes looks more like a Kirilenko / Thad Young / Al Harrington versatile player than an anchor.

So it seems likely it'll create a short run that will burn out and lead us back into a rebuild.

Missteps in 2022/24 will likely limit the teams direction for most of this decade.

[Anticon]

Yeah, some of us having been saying all of this for years, they're betting everything on Ingram's questionable health record now because they are desperate. Since the title the Raptors have made the playoffs twice in 6 years and won a single playoff round, and that was with good chunks of title team still mostly intact back in 2020. That's a poor record for any highly paid executive that is looking for a new contract like Masai and Bobby are, there's immense pressure on them to get this team back into the playoffs and show things are moving forward in a positive direction.

They've literally done a worse job then the majority of fans would've on this board...

Id say the consensus of fans on here decisions leaned:

- Kept Norm Powell.

- Traded FVV, OG, Siakam earlier when value was higher for better returns.

- Committed to rebuild earlier (we were 5th worse team = Wemby slot before trading for Poeltl, shouldve went full rebuild)

- Not traded multiple 1st round picks for treadmill moves.

-Not traded top 10 pick for Poeltl.

I feel like there's more no Brainer ones.

If they get fired can't say the didn't earn it.

This board would have picked Sugg over Barnes.

That top ten pick ending up being little Rob Dillingham who hopefully one day will be a 6 man. I would have traded Dillingham for a starter in Poeltl.

13 other teams some with better odds didn't win the Wemby lottery. It's called a lottery for a reason.


The year after he left Toronto Norm Powell played 27 games, next year 40, next year 7. He averages under 2 assists a game. Bad defense. 20 million was too much.

Listening to podcasts can be bad for your health. They are trying to get you raging so you tune in.

There's a reasonable argument that drafting Barnes messed up the roster construction and led the team to build around an interesting but highly flawed focal point.

In some ways picking Suggs, who is playing well now, would have been the better outcome, even if he isn't the better player.

[earthtone]

Anyone who thinks RealGM commenters would do a better job running an NBA franchise than Masai can’t be taken seriously

Pontificating about what we would do differently is, um, the whole point of this site. I mean, it's right in the name lol.

Yah, thinking about what you would do as the decision maker is half the fun of being a fan, but I think there’s a difference between that and

They've literally done a worse job then the majority of fans would've on this board...

[ciueli]

This board would have picked Sugg over Barnes.

That top ten pick ending up being little Rob Dillingham who hopefully one day will be a 6 man. I would have traded Dillingham for a starter in Poeltl.

13 other teams some with better odds didn't win the Wemby lottery. It's called a lottery for a reason.


The year after he left Toronto Norm Powell played 27 games, next year 40, next year 7. He averages under 2 assists a game. Bad defense. 20 million was too much.

Listening to podcasts can be bad for your health. They are trying to get you raging so you tune in.

There's a reasonable argument that drafting Barnes messed up the roster construction and led the team to build around an interesting but highly flawed focal point.

In some ways picking Suggs, who is playing well now, would have been the better outcome, even if he isn't the better player.

Throw in the rumour that trading Suggs could let the Magic get Darius Garland off the Cavs and it seems like his value is quite high on the trade market, part of that is likely due to the fact that he is on a declining contract going forward at same time the cap and tax are set to increase substantially.