Toronto needs a new Center

[LarSiN]

Koloko was insurance and bloodclots derailed his career, then Chomche was insurance and bloodclots are currently derailing his career

Exactly. These "We did NOTHING!!" posts are cringey asf

[Kobe Anunoby]

We should try to hit on a 10 day, like Pre gambling Jontay Porter who was actually pretty productive before the scandal. Ibou Badji looks like he has a chance, only 22 right now. 7'8 wingspan. Just dunks, and defends the rim but maybe not a fit for Darko's offense. Still think he can force some turnovers though and overall positively contribute for small minutes

Badji looked intriguing at Afrobasket. Not super fluid but could be interesting against the right matchup, he’s got that body

[tsherkin]

Koloko was insurance and bloodclots derailed his career, then Chomche was insurance and bloodclots are currently derailing his career

Exactly. These "We did NOTHING!!" posts are cringey asf

Yeah. Quality centers who are worth a rotation spot aren't easy to find, nor cheap. And cheap options who might work out don't pan out all the time, or even very often. We've tried some things, we just haven't landed on any of them in that regard. So here we are. We've identified a need, but it isn't a simple one to fulfill. We'll keep trying, but we have to work within what we have for the moment.

[ConSarnit]

Koloko was insurance and bloodclots derailed his career, then Chomche was insurance and bloodclots are currently derailing his career

Exactly. These "We did NOTHING!!" posts are cringey asf

Koloko as a near term plan made sense. He was older and showed flashes but couldn’t overcome his health problems.

Relying on Chomche as insurance was a terrible plan. He’s a lottery ticket. Raw 18 year old drafted 57th. The odds of him working out (even without his health problems) are probably 1 in 10. He was not going to be a viable rotation big until year 3 if he EVER even became one at all. Thats not a viable plan for a team that needs a backup C yesterday.

[ConSarnit]

Koloko was insurance and bloodclots derailed his career, then Chomche was insurance and bloodclots are currently derailing his career

Exactly. These "We did NOTHING!!" posts are cringey asf

Yeah. Quality centers who are worth a rotation spot aren't easy to find, nor cheap. And cheap options who might work out don't pan out all the time, or even very often. We've tried some things, we just haven't landed on any of them in that regard. So here we are. We've identified a need, but it isn't a simple one to fulfill. We'll keep trying, but we have to work within what we have for the moment.

That’s because we are capped out. There are viable backup C’s in the $7-10m range we just don’t have the money.

Given what we know about Poeltl (can only play 28mpg) finding a backup C should have been a higher priority. Poeltl is our lowest minutes starter and probably the key piece to our defense. That’s the type of guy you need to carve out cap space for a backup. Instead we have 4 shooting guards.

If you know you’re going to have 20 minutes per game where your C can’t play you need to work to address that issue and it can’t be minimum guys.

[tsherkin]

That’s because we are capped out. There are viable backup C’s in the $7-10m range we just don’t have the money.

Given what we know about Poeltl (can only play 28mpg) finding a backup C should have been a higher priority. Poeltl is our lowest minutes starter and probably the key piece to our defense. That’s the type of guy you need to carve out cap space for a backup. Instead we have 4 shooting guards.

We could definitely use fewer guards and more frontcourt depth, I can't argue there.

[Thaddy]

The new C thing doesn't make sense. Mamu is playing 100% at C and he's killing it.

Watch on YouTube

[tsherkin]

The new C thing doesn't make sense. Mamu is playing 100% at C and he's killing it.

Watch on YouTube

Offensively, Mamu has been very good for us. Would like to see him get back to the rebounding he was managing the previous 3 years though, because he's rebounding at a guard-like level at the moment. The spacing is wonderful, but he's not a strong defender and he isn't hellaciously athletic. It'd be nice to have a lob threat kind of guy who can do a better job for us on defense when we need it. That's a tall ask, if you'll pardon the pun, but that's probably the reason behind most of the push for a 3rd-string guy. That, and planning for Jak being unhealthy. He's very good, but he hasn't played 60+ games since 2023, and the three years before that, he was also under 70 games. So prepping for his absence is of some importance.

[YogurtProducer]

Koloko was insurance and bloodclots derailed his career, then Chomche was insurance and bloodclots are currently derailing his career

Exactly. These "We did NOTHING!!" posts are cringey asf

Koloko as a near term plan made sense. He was older and showed flashes but couldn’t overcome his health problems.

Relying on Chomche as insurance was a terrible plan. He’s a lottery ticket. Raw 18 year old drafted 57th. The odds of him working out (even without his health problems) are probably 1 in 10. He was not going to be a viable rotation big until year 3 if he EVER even became one at all. Thats not a viable plan for a team that needs a backup C yesterday.

No one outside unrealistic Raptors fans had any expectation Chomche would ever play meaningful minutes for the org.

[YogurtProducer]

That’s because we are capped out. There are viable backup C’s in the $7-10m range we just don’t have the money.

such as..? Who realistically was available in the 7-10M range that is obtainable?

Given what we know about Poeltl (can only play 28mpg) finding a backup C should have been a higher priority. Poeltl is our lowest minutes starter and probably the key piece to our defense. That’s the type of guy you need to carve out cap space for a backup. Instead we have 4 shooting guards.

Have you seen the backups around the NBA actually? Like who is actually worth it? Here is a comprehensive list of guys listed as a "C" on basketball reference, who have came off the bench for 50% or more of their games. Which guys were both:

A) obtainable
B) worth it

Spoiler:

ATL - Onyeka Okongwu
BOS - Luka Garza
BOS - Xavier Tillman Sr.
BRK - Day'Ron Sharpe
CHI - Jalen Smith
CHO - Moussa Diabaté
DAL - Dwight Powell
DEN - Jonas Valančiūnas
DET - Isaiah Stewart
DET - Paul Reed
HOU - Steven Adams
HOU - Clint Capela
IND - Jay Huff
IND - Tony Bradley
LAC - Brook Lopez
MIN - Naz Reid
NOP - Derik Queen
NYK - Guerschon Yabusele
OKC - Branden Carlson
ORL - Goga Bitadze
PHI - Adem Bona
PHI - Andre Drummond
PHO - Nick Richards
SAC - Drew Eubanks
SAS - Bismack Biyombo
TOR - Sandro Mamukelashvili
UTA - Jusuf Nurkić
WAS - Tristan Vukcevic

You are vastly overrating the quality of backups around the NBA.

[nikster]

That’s because we are capped out. There are viable backup C’s in the $7-10m range we just don’t have the money.

such as..? Who realistically was available in the 7-10M range that is obtainable?

Given what we know about Poeltl (can only play 28mpg) finding a backup C should have been a higher priority. Poeltl is our lowest minutes starter and probably the key piece to our defense. That’s the type of guy you need to carve out cap space for a backup. Instead we have 4 shooting guards.

Have you seen the backups around the NBA actually? Like who is actually worth it? Here is a comprehensive list of guys listed as a "C" on basketball reference, who have came off the bench for 50% or more of their games. Which guys were both:

A) obtainable
B) worth it

Spoiler:

ATL - Onyeka Okongwu
BOS - Luka Garza
BOS - Xavier Tillman Sr.
BRK - Day'Ron Sharpe
CHI - Jalen Smith
CHO - Moussa Diabaté
DAL - Dwight Powell
DEN - Jonas Valančiūnas
DET - Isaiah Stewart
DET - Paul Reed
HOU - Steven Adams
HOU - Clint Capela
IND - Jay Huff
IND - Tony Bradley
LAC - Brook Lopez
MIN - Naz Reid
NOP - Derik Queen
NYK - Guerschon Yabusele
OKC - Branden Carlson
ORL - Goga Bitadze
PHI - Adem Bona
PHI - Andre Drummond
PHO - Nick Richards
SAC - Drew Eubanks
SAS - Bismack Biyombo
TOR - Sandro Mamukelashvili
UTA - Jusuf Nurkić
WAS - Tristan Vukcevic

You are vastly overrating the quality of backups around the NBA.

Don't ask them to give realistic examples, its much easier to find make believe solutions.

[Thaddy]

The new C thing doesn't make sense. Mamu is playing 100% at C and he's killing it.

Watch on YouTube

Offensively, Mamu has been very good for us. Would like to see him get back to the rebounding he was managing the previous 3 years though, because he's rebounding at a guard-like level at the moment. The spacing is wonderful, but he's not a strong defender and he isn't hellaciously athletic. It'd be nice to have a lob threat kind of guy who can do a better job for us on defense when we need it. That's a tall ask, if you'll pardon the pun, but that's probably the reason behind most of the push for a 3rd-string guy. That, and planning for Jak being unhealthy. He's very good, but he hasn't played 60+ games since 2023, and the three years before that, he was also under 70 games. So prepping for his absence is of some importance.

We need shooting so bad that it doesn't matter to me. If a player can stretch the floor and protect the rim/rebound then they are usually expensive all stars. I would say we are kind of forced to build a team where 1-4 can shoot and the 5 is strictly an anchor that rebounds, finishes, and plays high IQ (similar to Jakob). I don't think there's any defensive C in the league that can consistently shoot. Banging down low causes fatigue and that affects shooting.

[tsherkin]

We need shooting so bad that it doesn't matter to me. If a player can stretch the floor and protect the rim/rebound then they are usually expensive all stars. I would say we are kind of forced to build a team where 1-4 can shoot and the 5 is strictly an anchor that rebounds, finishes, and plays high IQ (similar to Jakob). I don't think there's any defensive C in the league that can consistently shoot. Banging down low causes fatigue and that affects shooting.

Mamu has been very good. I don't think anyone is complaining about him. We're talking about a 3rd-string guy who can pick up minutes when Jak misses games. Jak can't shoot and he works out just fine for us.

Meantime, there are guys who can defend and shoot, but they certainly aren't cheap or easily available, no doubt. Regardless, I don't think it matters, because we're talking more about someone who can replicate a little of what Poeltl does, not so much what Mamu does, and then working with that set.

[Yallbecrazy]

Is it too much to ask for a backup centre who can pass and play within the flow of the offense while being a lob threat, rim protector, 3pt threat, can switch defensively, and improve our team rebounding?

Someone like a Myles Turner, or JJJ, but a better passer, and an elite rebounder too. Can we trade a 2nd rounder for one of those backups around the league making near minimum salary that does those things please?

[Thaddy]

We need shooting so bad that it doesn't matter to me. If a player can stretch the floor and protect the rim/rebound then they are usually expensive all stars. I would say we are kind of forced to build a team where 1-4 can shoot and the 5 is strictly an anchor that rebounds, finishes, and plays high IQ (similar to Jakob). I don't think there's any defensive C in the league that can consistently shoot. Banging down low causes fatigue and that affects shooting.

Mamu has been very good. I don't think anyone is complaining about him. We're talking about a 3rd-string guy who can pick up minutes when Jak misses games. Jak can't shoot and he works out just fine for us.

Meantime, there are guys who can defend and shoot, but they certainly aren't cheap or easily available, no doubt. Regardless, I don't think it matters, because we're talking more about someone who can replicate a little of what Poeltl does, not so much what Mamu does, and then working with that set.

Another Poeltl is probably something like going for Sharpe on the Nets. I don't really think it's worth moving someone like Agbaji. It seems like he's on the chopping block. I'm guessing we wait for the draft and pick up a project there. Maybe Chomche makes a comeback at some point and comes back to us.

[Kobe Anunoby]

The new C thing doesn't make sense. Mamu is playing 100% at C and he's killing it.

Watch on YouTube

It’s nice to see that you’ve came around on manu, after all the doubt you had during the summer (eurobasket)

[Thaddy]

The new C thing doesn't make sense. Mamu is playing 100% at C and he's killing it.

Watch on YouTube

It’s nice to see that you’re coming around on manu, after all the doubt you had during the summer (eurobasket)

I love his nickname "Mamu said knock you out"

He's similar to Gradey where the highs are really great and give a glimpse as to what he can be. His skill is exactly what I was advocating for. A stretch big gives such an advantage to the wing creator, it completely removed paint congestion. I want to see him, Dick, and IQ increase their three point volume. This will mean that guys like RJ, Ingram, and Barnes will need to find them more often. It would help us remain a top 10 offense in the NBA while the defense catches up and drives our offense even further.

I doubt his shooting remains as high as it is now but I do expect his three point volume to get higher along with his rebounding numbers. It seemed like last year he benefited a lot from playing with Wemby. It likely resulted in more open 3s and easier rebounding opportunities while playing the 4 more often.

[HKBOY]

We should have just drafted Missi instead of Jakobe imo.

[tsherkin]

Another Poeltl is probably something like going for Sharpe on the Nets. I don't really think it's worth moving someone like Agbaji. It seems like he's on the chopping block. I'm guessing we wait for the draft and pick up a project there. Maybe Chomche makes a comeback at some point and comes back to us.

Yeah, I think that's about right. At some point, it's just depth, until/unless Jak stops being healthy. So it isn't necessary until it's necessary, I think. If we're lucky, we can wait until the draft and maybe do something about it then. Or the deadline or something. Agbaji is an interesting one. Assuming he gets back to where he was last year, he's a reasonable 3+D guy, but he's also a little far down our depth chart, so I wonder if he's the right kind of asset to move for this. It feels a little much, I agree.

[Clay Davis]

Random, but shouldn't we spell it "centre"? I spell the word as "centre" without even thinking about it, and it always surprises me when I talk with Americans.

I really wonder what caused Jakob to regress over a period of... what, 5 months? Did he get injured training over the Summer? Anyway, if he gets back to being a 15/10 centre, I actually think we'll lowkey have an interesting (not great) centre line-up with CMB/Scottie/Mamu playing small-ball 5 and Jakob playing traditional 5. I think the centre line-up of a team should have a "main" traditional centre, a back-up traditional centre, and a number of 4s who can slot in as small-ball 5s.

He's 30.

He's a 30 year old centre. But yes it will be more difficult for him to get back to the level he was last year. I hope he has the rizz.

Centripital rizz...