Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

[Brinbe]

Also, some tweets from David Thorpe on Knight.

I think, by June, whomever is drafting in the top 3 will consider Brandon Knight. I think he can go number 1.

He's not as explosive an athlete as D Rose, but he's a better scorer, shooter, and passer at that age. Rose has higher upside, not by a lot.

[JamesNaismith]

A lack of size was the knock on Chris Paul entering the league too.

Maybe so but they could already see he was a very skilled passer.


Everyone here is just speculating that Kemba can as well....there's no reason to believe that he can though. He looks everybit like a shoot first PG, nothing really jumps out that shows he's even a decent passer. It makes a big difference as a PG if you're shoot or pass first. You don't have to be incredibly athletic to be a great passing PG (ie/ Steve Nash) but if you're a scorer you have to be exceptional....

Kemba looks good now BUT the fact is, is that he is playing against nobodies at the PG position in the NCAA, hence why Kyrie is considered miles above the rest of PGs in this draft. When Kemba gets here against guys like Rondo, Westbrook, Wall, Deron, Paul etc....he might be in over his head. As mentioned before Iverson although small as well had long limbs and incredible speed (much better then Kemba). Like I put in my last post, this team would need to pray he becomes Mighty Mouse 2.0.

[Alfred]

Wow, that's some pretty high praise. It's nice to see that there might be another high level prospect at the 1 for us to draft if we don't manage to grab Kyrie.

[JamesNaismith]

There's no way Brandon Knight gets taken over Kyrie.

[toka]

A lack of size was the knock on Chris Paul entering the league too.

Kemba looks good now BUT the fact is, is that he is playing against nobodies at the PG position in the NCAA, hence why Kyrie is considered miles above the rest of PGs in this draft. When Kemba gets here against guys like Rondo, Westbrook, Wall, Deron, Paul etc....he might be in over his head. As mentioned before Iverson although small as well had long limbs and incredible speed (much better then Kemba). Like I put in my last post, this team would need to pray he becomes Mighty Mouse 2.0.

Your argument is that Kemba Walker plays against nobodies in the NCAA. He's played against Cory Joseph, Brandon Knight, Kalin Lucas, Ashton Gibbs, Dwight Hardy, Corey Fisher, Chris Wright this year alone. Then you advocate for Jimmer Fredette who isn't quick enough to consistently drive by the nobodies in the NCAA.

Hello, Kemba has a 2.1 A/T ratio on a team that can't finish plays. If you've only watched Kemba in a couple of games this year, you'd think he was shoot first. Throughout his HS career he was always labeled as a true point guard and not a scorer.

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http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p= ... id=2742155

Scout.com's evaluation of Kemba in HS.

Strengths: Passing, Leadership, Toughness
Weaknesses: Perimeter shot, 3 Point range.

The guy works on his weaknesses and improves his shooting and now he's considered a shoot-first guy? Give me a break.

[CunningLinguist]

A lack of size was the knock on Chris Paul entering the league too.

Maybe so but they could already see he was a very skilled passer.


Everyone here is just speculating that Kemba can as well....there's no reason to believe that he can though. He looks everybit like a shoot first PG, nothing really jumps out that shows he's even a decent passer. It makes a big difference as a PG if you're shoot or pass first. You don't have to be incredibly athletic to be a great passing PG (ie/ Steve Nash) but if you're a scorer you have to be exceptional....

Kemba looks good now BUT the fact is, is that he is playing against nobodies at the PG position in the NCAA, hence why Kyrie is considered miles above the rest of PGs in this draft. When Kemba gets here against guys like Rondo, Westbrook, Wall, Deron, Paul etc....he might be in over his head. As mentioned before Iverson although small as well had long limbs and incredible speed (much better then Kemba). Like I put in my last post, this team would need to pray he becomes Mighty Mouse 2.0.

I've seen the passing skills from him. Also don't forget, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are plenty of point guards who developed their passing skills after enetering the league. For example:

Billups
Parker
Rose
Rondo
Curry
Westbrook
Holiday

Some of those guys didn't even play much PG in college (Westbrook/Holiday).

I was a huge fan of Rondo at Kentucky because of his penetration, defense and rebounding abilities, but I had no idea that he could become a 10 assist/game guy. Rose didn't display that skill set at Memphis either. But anyone that can penetrate at will like that will have a positive impact on his team if he has even a hint of passing ability.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Kemba's assist numbers in our system will be pretty high, with his ability to dribble-drive, even if he does look to score in those instances. A simple drive-and-kick out to the three pt line to Andrea in the halfcourt, or a dish off to DeMar or Amir in transition can net easy assists.

The guy is going to cause matchup problems for teams in theory, because teams might have to put a bigger guy on him, like a Marion-type, to negate his ability to score, and that could open up post-up opportunities for James Johnson and DeMar DeRozan against smaller guys.

Will be interested to see if San Diego St. puts Leonard on Walker in the UCONN-SDST game, and they probably will at some point in the game.

[JamesNaismith]

[=====================================================================
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p= ... id=2742155

Scout.com's evaluation of Kemba in HS.

Strengths: Passing, Leadership, Toughness
Weaknesses: Perimeter shot, 3 Point range.

The guy works on his weaknesses and improves his shooting and now he's considered a shoot-first guy? Give me a break.

If this was a good assessment of him in highschool then you're absolutely right and I would be for it....but despite you're skeptism I have watched him this year and the only time I seen him put up decent assists was when he up 12 assists at beginning of the tourney. Other then that he just seemed to have tunnel vision imo...hate all you want.

[CunningLinguist]

Kemba's assist numbers in our system will be pretty high, with his ability to dribble-drive, even if he does look to score in those instances. A simple drive-and-kick out to the three pt line to Andrea in the halfcourt, or a dish off to DeMar or Amir in transition can net easy assists.

The guy is going to cause matchup problems for teams in theory, because teams might have to put a bigger guy on him, like a Marion-type, to negate his ability to score, and that could open up post-up opportunities for James Johnson and DeMar DeRozan against smaller guys.

Will be interested to see if San Diego St. puts Leonard on Walker in the UCONN-SDST game, and they probably will at some point in the game.

Both he and Knight would be killer in the pick and roll because they can drive and shoot off the dribble.

[dagger]

I would simply remind people of the obvious - we don't have to fill all of this team's weaknesses in this draft. In fact, it would be impossible to do that. It's a multi-stage process, so if we don't like these point guards, we can go somewhere else with our pick. BPA is still a very good approach. The deeper you are in assets, the more you can trade to fill needs with quality options, like NJ did with Deron Williams. We can probably get back to "respectability", like 7th or 8th place, in one year, but it will take more years to lay the foundation for a potential contender.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Wow, that's some pretty high praise. It's nice to see that there might be another high level prospect at the 1 for us to draft if we don't manage to grab Kyrie.

Doesn't somebody always come up with an anti-#1?

[toka]

One last evaluation. This is Summer of 2010, this past summer, when Kemba and Jimmer were selected for the USA select team and they played against NBA players

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JIMMER FREDETTE, BYU

What he does well: Shoot. Fredette is as pure a shooter as anyone in college basketball. He can shoot the ball from NBA range with consistency.

What he needs to work on: Against the NBA players, Fredette had trouble getting open for an outside jumper. At his size, he needs to be a point guard to make the NBA. His ball-handling and passing wasn't great at all. He needs to prove this year that he can be an NBA point guard.

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KEMBA WALKER, UConn

What he does well: Ball handling and passing. Walker has the skills to be an NBA point guard. He can dribble through pressure, get past his defenders, run an offense, and makes good passes.

What he needs to work on: Knowing when to be a point guard and when to be a scorer. Walker is a very good point guard but he likes to shoot a lot of jumpers. When he's open or it's late in the shot clock, it's good to shoot the ball. But other than that, Walker needs to learn to always be a facilitator and focus on getting his teammates the ball.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

I would simply remind people of the obvious - we don't have to fill all of this team's weaknesses in this draft. In fact, it would be impossible to do that. It's a multi-stage process, so if we don't like these point guards, we can go somewhere else with our pick. BPA is still a very good approach. The deeper you are in assets, the more you can trade for to fill needs with quality options. We can probably get back to "respectability", like 7th or 8th place, in one year, but it will take more years to lay the foundation for a potential contender.

Yeah, this is absolutely true.

[CunningLinguist]

[=====================================================================
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p= ... id=2742155

Scout.com's evaluation of Kemba in HS.

Strengths: Passing, Leadership, Toughness
Weaknesses: Perimeter shot, 3 Point range.

The guy works on his weaknesses and improves his shooting and now he's considered a shoot-first guy? Give me a break.

If this was a good assessment of him in highschool then you're absolutely right and I would be for it....but despite you're skeptism I have watched him this year and the only time I seen him put up decent assists was when he up 12 assists at beginning of the tourney. Other then that he just seemed to have tunnel vision imo...hate all you want.

Try not to get hung up on assist numbers. You have to consider his decision to pass or shoot in the context of the game. I saw several games this year where he tried to get teammates invloved, finding them for open looks that they weren't hitting. UConn would fall behind and he would have to take over as a scorer if they had a chance to win. His goal is to help his team win games, not to convince people that he's a pass first point guard.

I'm not sure if you saw UConn's first game of the tournament against Bucknell that you referenced, but he was finding guys with great looks and they were hitting them. Since they were smoking Bucknell, he didn't need to look for his own shot much.

[Silk Wilkes]

I would simply remind people of the obvious - we don't have to fill all of this team's weaknesses in this draft. In fact, it would be impossible to do that. It's a multi-stage process, so if we don't like these point guards, we can go somewhere else with our pick. BPA is still a very good approach. The deeper you are in assets, the more you can trade for to fill needs with quality options. We can probably get back to "respectability", like 7th or 8th place, in one year, but it will take more years to lay the foundation for a potential contender.

Yeah, this is absolutely true.

I agree as well, but that's how people are during draft time. It's almost guaranteed that everyone sees one or more prospect they want. However, taking the same approach Boston did is a good way to go. They collected a bunch of young talent and somehow turned it into Garnett and Allen. It's honestly not even like their young talent was that impressive but it got the job done.

[CunningLinguist]

I would simply remind people of the obvious - we don't have to fill all of this team's weaknesses in this draft. In fact, it would be impossible to do that. It's a multi-stage process, so if we don't like these point guards, we can go somewhere else with our pick. BPA is still a very good approach. The deeper you are in assets, the more you can trade to fill needs with quality options, like NJ did with Deron Williams. We can probably get back to "respectability", like 7th or 8th place, in one year, but it will take more years to lay the foundation for a potential contender.

I agree with the BPA approach as well, I just feel that the way this draft may shake out, the BPA at the 5th or 6th pick may indeed be a point guard, which makes things a lot easier.

[toka]

You meant Bucknell though. Carolina played LIU.

[CunningLinguist]

You meant Bucknell though. Carolina played LIU.

Oops sorry. Wrong blowout.

[just23]

I would simply remind people of the obvious - we don't have to fill all of this team's weaknesses in this draft. In fact, it would be impossible to do that. It's a multi-stage process, so if we don't like these point guards, we can go somewhere else with our pick. BPA is still a very good approach. The deeper you are in assets, the more you can trade for to fill needs with quality options. We can probably get back to "respectability", like 7th or 8th place, in one year, but it will take more years to lay the foundation for a potential contender.

Yeah, this is absolutely true.

I agree as well, but that's how people are during draft time. It's almost guaranteed that everyone sees one or more prospect they want. However, taking the same approach Boston did is a good way to go. They collected a bunch of young talent and somehow turned it into Garnett and Allen. It's honestly not even like their young talent was that impressive but it got the job done.

This is how I feel as well. We don't need to take average players here just to fill a need. We need the best available talent. If Kanter measure's at 6'10 - 6'11 we should give him a long look because a guy who gets Horford comparisons would definitely have value. There aren't enough bruising big men in the league these days and playoff teams always need them.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I would simply remind people of the obvious - we don't have to fill all of this team's weaknesses in this draft. In fact, it would be impossible to do that. It's a multi-stage process, so if we don't like these point guards, we can go somewhere else with our pick. BPA is still a very good approach. The deeper you are in assets, the more you can trade for to fill needs with quality options. We can probably get back to "respectability", like 7th or 8th place, in one year, but it will take more years to lay the foundation for a potential contender.

Looking at the pick as a multi-faceted asset is a must, IMO. That's why I'm dead set against drafting a combo guard, their value falls off a cliff once they're selected while the bigs remain attractive, Somebody always thinks they can get something out of size, you take big question marks over little ones every day of the week. Could Kahn have traded Wes Johnson, who at least has legit size for his position, straight-up for Cousins or Monroe, even during the draft? The draft is the best way to get quality size, sometimes the only way. It's worth taking a chance on.

One problem is, if you draft a guy at a loaded position and he doesn't play, his value will go down no matter what. Teams know you want to move him/another, he's not putting up numbers, not getting attention, grumbling starts, etc. For example, if the Raps were to take a PF they'd need a plan in place, to be executed before the season starts, IMO.