Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[LoveMyRaps]

RJ + Poeltl + 1st for Bam + Kyle Anderson

that'd be reaaaaaaally interesting. I'd have to think Bam's price is higher though. Especially since if they trade Bam they're heading for a rebuild

Maybe we have to toss in Dick?

Herro/Mitchell
Barrett/Dick
Wiggins/Robinson
Ware/Jovic
Poeltl/Love

That's a pretty well balanced lineup.

[ishoy123]

Masai/Bobby aren't going to mortgage the entire future (all picks and swaps) for Giannis. That's not how he works.

[Raps in 4]

Keep Scottie and let the Bucks rot. Milwaukee is no longer a threat even with a healthy Giannis.

East is wide open and we can compete with what we have.

We can't compete with what we have (yet), but I do agree that we shouldn't be mortgaging our future for a 30 year-old Giannis who would be joining a team that isn't ready to compete.

Unless Giannis forces his way here or no one else is interested, and therefore he can be had for cheap, we're just not at the point yet where a trade like this makes sense.

[OakleyDokely]

Masai/Bobby aren't going to mortgage the entire future (all picks and swaps) for Giannis. That's not how he works.

I agree. If the deal happens, it will be something like Barnes/Dick/#9, maybe a future pick.

Has Masai ever packaged multiple #1s in any deal?

[Raps in 4]

RJ + Poeltl + 1st for Bam + Kyle Anderson

Unless that first is #9, there is no way Miami accepts that trade (and even that, Miami probably says no). Riley is similar to Masai in that he won't move his stars unless they force his hand, or he can get another star in return.

[OakleyDokely]

Looking at some of these team with multiple picks, a lot of these picks lean more towards quantity over quality. Most of these picks will be mid-late 1sts.

If I'm the Bucks, I'd rather have Barnes or Harper (if SA is willing to trade #2) over picks 3-5 years in the future that could be in the 20s, especially considering the Bucks can't tank with picks owing.

[WuTang_CMB]

I would do this and it's probably the best offer Bucks will get if he wants to stay in the East. Toronto also pays for Bucks to get their own 26' back with no swap. If I made this deal for the Bucks I would tank the 2026 season and pick high and roll in 27' with Barnes and a top pick and then look to move Lillard next off-season for more. It's a steep price but I don't think Toronto is getting him for cheaper than this.

[brownbobcat]

Keep Scottie and let the Bucks rot. Milwaukee is no longer a threat even with a healthy Giannis.

East is wide open and we can compete with what we have.

We can't compete with what we have (yet), but I do agree that we shouldn't be mortgaging our future for a 30 year-old Giannis who would be joining a team that isn't ready to compete.

Unless Giannis forces his way here or no one else is interested, and therefore he can be had for cheap, we're just not at the point yet where a trade like this makes sense.

Whether it makes sense depends on the goal.
Competing for a championship? Doubtful
Competing for 45-50 wins and playoffs? Probable

[Mister Ze]

140M right now towards Ingram, Barnes, Quickley, and Barrett. A lot of money for a core that is basically a play-in team.

I think Barrett or Quickley should be upgraded by throwing in the 2025 first.

[MoneyBall]

GS was starting Looney+Draymond

Looney wasn't starting in almost half the games he played that postseason. He also barely averaged 20 mpg. At the very least we'd have to diminish Poeltl's role on the team, which is not ideal.

The Warriors for almost their entire run played Iggy / Draymond / Looney / Livingston / Bogut big minutes.

They also had Steph and Klay which kind of is hard to replicate

I'm talking about the 2021-2022 Warriors. You're probably talking about the 2019 team which also had Kevin Durant. Iggy also shot .350 from three during that run.

In any case, my point stands. It's a huge handicap have a front court with zero long range shooting.

[JB7]

Masai/Bobby aren't going to mortgage the entire future (all picks and swaps) for Giannis. That's not how he works.

I agree. If the deal happens, it will be something like Barnes/Dick/#9, maybe a future pick.

Has Masai ever packaged multiple #1s in any deal?

I agree. I think that is also why a Giannis deal is actually feasible, provided Giannis is interested in the Raps. The Bucks need young talent that can contribute now, over future picks that are an unknown quality.

I also don't think the Pelicans will be easily swayed to offer up the Bucks picks, because there is the possibility they could produce high end draft picks. So Bucks have no reason to tank.

[Clutch0z24]

I would do this and it's probably the best offer Bucks will get if he wants to stay in the East. Toronto also pays for Bucks to get their own 26' back with no swap. If I made this deal for the Bucks I would tank the 2026 season and pick high and roll in 27' with Barnes and a top pick and then look to move Lillard next off-season for more. It's a steep price but I don't think Toronto is getting him for cheaper than this.

I don't think Pels trade that pick esp for Ochai ....Gotta think they know how valuable that Bucks pick is right now considering it could be a top 5 pick if Giannis is gone...

[carlosey]

I don’t think the Raptors have the assets the Bucks are looking for. Several other teams can offer a superior package.

You're right.

Giannis also going to play a big factor in determining where he plays next year so the best package might not be the package Milwaukee takes.

Personally, I think Brooklyn is where he ends up. They will have the ability to save Milwaukee all kinds of $$$

Agreed. Giannis will likely close things off in good terms with MIL. This means he will choose where he goes, and well, MIL wouldnt be able to gut the team where he goes as he is looking to cntinue to compete.

[Young Moosehead]

Yep.

Ingram and Siakam are the same tier of player. Both are all-star caliber guys who might make an all-nba team if the stars align.
Quick and Turner are both guys who are 4th/5th starters. I like Turner, but he has just as many flaws as IQ does. He is a center who averaged 6.5rpg and is not some elite defender. Blocks shots but isn't a great defender by any means.

You add Giannis to this team and we are easily at Indiana's level.

You going to add something to the conversation or no?

This happens every damn year.

It was the Knicks before this.

It was the Hawks before this.

Now it is Indiana. A team we had a winning record against in a tanking year. Pascal and Hali played in all three games we played against them, Scottie missed two of them, and yet we won the season series 2-1. We started Davion Mitchell, Ochai and Gradey Dick one of those games, and won.

The gap to make up is never as bad as some of the reactionaries would have you believe.

[gerrit4]

Masai/Bobby aren't going to mortgage the entire future (all picks and swaps) for Giannis. That's not how he works.

I agree. If the deal happens, it will be something like Barnes/Dick/#9, maybe a future pick.

Has Masai ever packaged multiple #1s in any deal?

I'm pretty sure it was rumoured he offered a bunch of picks for KD and Dame, as neither of those deals were rumoured to have included Scottie or Pascal. But I guess it doesn't really count if the deals never actually happened.

[Raps in 4]

Delusion

Delusion is thinking the gap between Siakam and Ingram + Turner and Quickley is greater than the gap between Giannis and Haliburton. Giannis is a top 3-5 player — a true superstar in the league — whereas Haliburton is a borderline All-NBA player. Giannis is one of maybe 5 players that singlehandedly would elevate almost any team in the league to contender status. That is far more important than the extra defence that Siakam and Turner give the Pacers while Ingram and IQ are slightly better offensive players.

Haliburton being hella overrated on here. Before this playoff run I bet most people wouldn’t have even considered him a top 15 player in the league and now all of the sudden he’s basically as good as Giannis? Okay lol.

Yep.

Ingram and Siakam are the same tier of player. Both are all-star caliber guys who might make an all-nba team if the stars align.
Quick and Turner are both guys who are 4th/5th starters. I like Turner, but he has just as many flaws as IQ does. He is a center who averaged 6.5rpg and is not some elite defender. Blocks shots but isn't a great defender by any means.

You add Giannis to this team and we are easily at Indiana's level.

I wonder if you had this same opinion back when Siakam was a Raptor and BI wasn't. I'm doubtful.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram. He's actually available to play for an entire season and playoffs, and he can actually play defence. And even on the offensive end, he's easier to plug into any system than Ingram (neither one is a first option, so that matters).

[Yeezus_]

Wouldn’t the safer path to contention be acquiring KD? It’ll require less assets to get him and he’s not slowing down for atleast another couple of seasons. If some package with Barrett, a prospect, picks and filler can get it done, that’s something the team needs to make. Its a more seamless fit too.

Quickley
Ingram
KD
Barnes
Poeltl

Lots of balance, defense, shooting and playmaking here that can easily compete in a conference that’s weak at the moment.

[MoneyBall]

GS was starting Looney+Draymond

Looney wasn't starting in almost half the games he played that postseason. He also barely averaged 20 mpg. At the very least we'd have to diminish Poeltl's role on the team, which is not ideal.

Poeltl isn't a 38-40 minute guy though. You'd use him as you need him based on matchups. There would be times when you need to play big with Poeltl/Giannis, and there would be times when you go small with Giannis at C or someone else.

When the Raps won the title, they'd play Gasol/Ibaka together, and they'd play them separately depending on matchups and score.

40 mpg? No. But he is currently a 30 mpg starter. That doesn't fit with Giannis. I don't think it's good asset management to reduce Poeltl's role to a bench big.

[TravisScott55]

Delusion is thinking the gap between Siakam and Ingram + Turner and Quickley is greater than the gap between Giannis and Haliburton. Giannis is a top 3-5 player — a true superstar in the league — whereas Haliburton is a borderline All-NBA player. Giannis is one of maybe 5 players that singlehandedly would elevate almost any team in the league to contender status. That is far more important than the extra defence that Siakam and Turner give the Pacers while Ingram and IQ are slightly better offensive players.

Haliburton being hella overrated on here. Before this playoff run I bet most people wouldn’t have even considered him a top 15 player in the league and now all of the sudden he’s basically as good as Giannis? Okay lol.

Yep.

Ingram and Siakam are the same tier of player. Both are all-star caliber guys who might make an all-nba team if the stars align.
Quick and Turner are both guys who are 4th/5th starters. I like Turner, but he has just as many flaws as IQ does. He is a center who averaged 6.5rpg and is not some elite defender. Blocks shots but isn't a great defender by any means.

You add Giannis to this team and we are easily at Indiana's level.

I wonder if you had this same opinion back when Siakam was a Raptor and BI wasn't. I'm doubtful.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram. He's actually available to play for an entire season and playoffs, and he can actually play defence. And even on the offensive end, he's easier to plug into any system than Ingram (neither one is a first option, so that matters).

It's so funny reading this thread and seeing Raptor fans convince themselves Ingram is a top 15 player now and Quickley is better than Myles Turner and Giannis is better than Jokic.

[Clutch0z24]

Wouldn’t the safer path to contention be acquiring KD? It’ll require less assets to get him and he’s not slowing down for atleast another couple of seasons. If some package with Barrett, a prospect, picks and filler can get it done, that’s something the team needs to make. Its a more seamless fit too.

Quickley
Ingram
KD
Barnes
Poeltl

Lots of balance, defense, shooting and playmaking here that can easily compete in a conference that’s weak at the moment.

Depends how you look at it...For Durant you are still giving up the #9th pick, Prolly another future pick and some good players to match salaries....For a smaller window to compete....Maybe 2 years max....With Giannis you have him for 5 years at least + if his game ages gracefully could be longer...

If the report is true and we are "Big Fish Hunting" you got to think that Giannis/KD are top 2 on Masai list though...