Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23)

[provecy15]

Does anybody know who is working out today? Thanks

[PhilBlackson]

*SLEEPER ALERT*

Atlanta Timekeeper provided me with the tip on Bolden. After watching this video I'm convinced Bolden is mocked way too low and that after workouts and interviews he will become a late first round pick. He does some Otto Porter stuff in this video and the Adriatic league is a good league that's put out a ton of quality lately. Guys with his length and athleticism and 3 point shooting ability and rebounding ability and net protection are highly coveted as role players and paid a lot on the open market.

Watch on YouTube

Seems like he's had a moment of clarity and that he's coachable.

Watch on YouTube

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

No offense but not sure it's really an "alert" when he's been discussed for pages and pages now?! lol

But yes this is the player I think we need to pick.

Failing that I would take Diallo, Anigbogu or Kuzma.

[Kevin Willis]

Jonah is a good prospect but I am curious what happened at UCLA that caused him to underperform. Same with Semi at Duke. He did play with Powell as someone mentioned so he can give insight.

Also considering some GMs read this board I am guessing Jonah is not a secret and might not be available at our pick. The positive though is it might drop someone down to us.

Edit: Don't sleep on Rodions.

[HeadtopChunes]

Jonah is a good prospect but I am curious what happened at UCLA that caused him to underperform. Same with Semi at Duke. He did play with Powell as someone mentioned so he can give insight.

Also considering some GMs read this board I am guessing Jonah is not a secret and might not be available at our pick. The positive though is it might drop someone down to us.

Edit: Don't sleep on Rodions.

I think some players are just late bloomers or aren't used correctly. Semi didn't get minutes because Duke was stacked with forwards at the time he probably wasn't anything special in practice then either.

Bolden is weird there are all sorts of rumors but nothing concrete. Like there's rumors of friction with the coaches or rumors of flunking out of school. Interesting to see what GMs think but I doubt it makes too much of an impact

[Kevin Willis]

Jonah is a good prospect but I am curious what happened at UCLA that caused him to underperform. Same with Semi at Duke. He did play with Powell as someone mentioned so he can give insight.

Also considering some GMs read this board I am guessing Jonah is not a secret and might not be available at our pick. The positive though is it might drop someone down to us.

Edit: Don't sleep on Rodions.

I think some players are just late bloomers or aren't used correctly. Semi didn't get minutes because Duke was stacked with forwards at the time he probably wasn't anything special in practice then either.

Bolden is weird there are all sorts of rumors but nothing concrete. Like there's rumors of friction with the coaches or rumors of flunking out of school. Interesting to see what GMs think but I doubt it makes too much of an impact

HeadtopChunes thanks for your contributions to this draft board. I always look forward to your thoughts - along with a few others.

For Semi and Bolden, I hope it's just circumstances and not a flag. I think Powell would help with insight on Bolden, has he come in yet for workouts? Also Justin Jackson was in, curious how he did.

[HeadtopChunes]

Jonah is a good prospect but I am curious what happened at UCLA that caused him to underperform. Same with Semi at Duke. He did play with Powell as someone mentioned so he can give insight.

Also considering some GMs read this board I am guessing Jonah is not a secret and might not be available at our pick. The positive though is it might drop someone down to us.

Edit: Don't sleep on Rodions.

I think some players are just late bloomers or aren't used correctly. Semi didn't get minutes because Duke was stacked with forwards at the time he probably wasn't anything special in practice then either.

Bolden is weird there are all sorts of rumors but nothing concrete. Like there's rumors of friction with the coaches or rumors of flunking out of school. Interesting to see what GMs think but I doubt it makes too much of an impact

HeadtopChunes thanks for your contributions to this draft board. I always look forward to your thoughts - along with a few others.

For Semi and Bolden, I hope it's just circumstances and not a flag. I think Powell would help with insight on Bolden, has he come in yet for workouts? Also Justin Jackson was in, curious how he did.

Bolden probably won't workout because his team's season runs until mid June.

We didn't hear much about JJs workout, unlike Semis where he set a drill record.

Also thanks it's nice to be appreciated

[OAKLEY_2]

Now we're talking about what guys studied in college when it was irrelevant given the fact they already knew what their profession would be?
Honestly I know some of us have been posting in this thread all year, so we've naturally run out of things to say, but this is just sad. lol.
Education is important in general, but I really don't care what a pro athlete studied in school.

Tonight I will prepare head to head stats for freshmen with upside in our range if trying to avoid the Delonte West's is offensive. Character does count. Ball IQ does count. Culture does matter. Paul Pierce would have us believe the IT factor is a type of toughness perhaps found in places like only where he comes from. That may be true for some players. Thing is we do need more players like Patterson and cannot get on the train for immature players. When a player is a five star recruit who puts up big numbers as a freshman and has the head for the game, and then some, we cannot dismiss them outright because of prevailing notions that they look like unathletic nobodies from Bill Russell's time. I bring up character and intelligence for balance in this discussion. Sorry man you don't agree. Semi also does tick these boxes BTW.

[CoachJReturns]

Now we're talking about what guys studied in college when it was irrelevant given the fact they already knew what their profession would be?
Honestly I know some of us have been posting in this thread all year, so we've naturally run out of things to say, but this is just sad. lol.
Education is important in general, but I really don't care what a pro athlete studied in school.

Tonight I will prepare head to head stats for freshmen with upside in our range if trying to avoid the Delonte West's is offensive. Character does count. Ball IQ does count. Culture does matter. Paul Pierce would have us believe the IT factor is a type of toughness perhaps found in places like only where he comes from. That may be true for some players. Thing is we do need more players like Patterson and cannot get on the train for immature players. When a player is a five star recruit who puts up big numbers as a freshman and has the head for the game, and then some, we cannot dismiss them outright because of prevailing notions that they look like unathletic nobodies from Bill Russell's time. I bring up character and intelligence for balance in this discussion. Sorry man you don't agree. Semi also does tick these boxes BTW.

First, being unathletic is significant and always has been. I keep hearing Kevin Love being mentioned because he's white, went to UCLA and could shoot 3s, but he is also an elite rebounder(which we've forgotten since he has a different role now in Cleveland) and was a top 5ish prospect. He was a better player than Leaf without question and is one of the few slow guys left in the league who are doing well. Quicker guys are more valuable to coaches right now and that's just the way it is.
Next character, intelligence and education are all separate things though. And the most talented players this team ever drafted, along with most other teams, were not seniors.. Most stars no longer attend more than the 1 mandatory year of college. Also among those who stay for 3-4 years, how many did more than the minimum required to maintain eligibility? Sure there are probably some good students among them, but I wouldn’t’ be surprised at all if most studied something relatively easy simply because they saw their stock wasn’t so high in the draft and they’d be better off waiting another year to declare.
I’ll admit it’s probably a good sign if a guy can balance his studies and playing ball as it shows a degree of responsibility and seriousness. It may also indicate that they don’t have a number of off court issues troubling them and taking away their time. But if it’s a matter of talent vs. a guy who stayed in school I’m taking talent every time. Character, intangibles, intelligence or whatever you want to call them are worth taking into account, along with everything else, but they still come secondary to showing actual ability to perform the job required. It’s not like a guy who declares early is automatically less mature than others. I would think it’s best to look at every individual case and make an informed decision based on what you know about them and not what you want to project onto them based on some predetermined system of beliefs. That’s probably a sure fire way to miss out on an underrated talent in a draft.
For what it’s worth, I like Rabb and he’s supposedly a high character guy, which is cool, but it’s his potential as a shooter, rebounder and decent passer that I’m more interested in rather than his GPA. Being able to apply himself in other areas is a point in his favor, but it’s not what’s most important. If it was, Rabb would be a top 5 pick in this draft, which he shouldn’t be and a guy like Garnett, who seemingly had no interests apart from basketball, wouldn’t be worth drafting.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Has it occurred to anyone else that given how low we're drafting, we can just grab anyone who isn't an athletic dud and can dribble a basketball and their odds of success would be the same as anyone else's in our range?

You can also be an athletic dud, see Nikola Jokic, Malcolm Brogdan. We may as well discuss the possibility, as every year there's a couple of really good players.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Has it occurred to anyone else that given how low we're drafting, we can just grab anyone who isn't an athletic dud and can dribble a basketball and their odds of success would be the same as anyone else's in our range?

You can also be an athletic dud, see Nikola Jokic, Malcolm Brogdan. We may as well discuss the possibility, as every year there's a couple of really good players.

Exactly, and people are afraid to reach for guys but take those two examples into account. Jokic and Brogdon. If someone reached for them in the first, say around 20-30, it may have looked odd at the time, but wouldn't be so odd once you see their abilities. The opportunity to trade down isn't always there, and who's to say that you trade down and someone snags your guy before you get the chance to pick him that you gave up.

[HeadtopChunes]

You guys ever irrationaly like a prospect? There's always that one guy every year who I really like but I know isn't that good. Like Josh Hart this year for me.

[PhilBlackson]

Jonah is a good prospect but I am curious what happened at UCLA that caused him to underperform. Same with Semi at Duke. He did play with Powell as someone mentioned so he can give insight.

Also considering some GMs read this board I am guessing Jonah is not a secret and might not be available at our pick. The positive though is it might drop someone down to us.

Edit: Don't sleep on Rodions.

Well in regards to Bolden you have to keep in mind a couple things :

1. He may not have been developed as well when he first entered. If I'm not mistaken he started playing basketball a little bit later so therefore was also not as highly touted coming out of HS. But it's important that his skill base likely isn't anywhere near what it is today so he couldn't be used to do the same things on the court that he can now which plays into the next point

2. The system himself and Norm played in isn't the same one Leaf and more importantly Ball played in. The system is pretty much designed around Ball and the general idea was to create a roster much like top NBA teams : 1 dynamic playmaker, surrounded by shooters (Leaf being one of many) and rebounder/shotblocker (Anigbogu). UCLA was not constructed the same way back then n Bolden wasn't the same level of skill. The result is playing him out of character and looking underwhelming

[Psubs]

Jonah is a good prospect but I am curious what happened at UCLA that caused him to underperform. Same with Semi at Duke. He did play with Powell as someone mentioned so he can give insight.

Also considering some GMs read this board I am guessing Jonah is not a secret and might not be available at our pick. The positive though is it might drop someone down to us.

Edit: Don't sleep on Rodions.

Well in regards to Bolden you have to keep in mind a couple things :

1. He may not have been developed as well when he first entered. If I'm not mistaken he started playing basketball a little bit later so therefore was also not as highly touted coming out of HS. But it's important that his skill base likely isn't anywhere near what it is today so he couldn't be used to do the same things on the court that he can now which plays into the next point

2. The system himself and Norm played in isn't the same one Leaf and more importantly Ball played in. The system is pretty much designed around Ball and the general idea was to create a roster much like top NBA teams : 1 dynamic playmaker, surrounded by shooters (Leaf being one of many) and rebounder/shotblocker (Anigbogu). UCLA was not constructed the same way back then n Bolden wasn't the same level of skill. The result is playing him out of character and looking underwhelming

Semi was behind Jabari Parker and Rodney Hood as a freshman. Then as a sophomore Justice Winslow was beast and Duke had a lot of guards. He could turn out to be a better shooter than Winslow with less defense.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-draft-2017-semi-ojeleye-scouting-report-combine-smu-duke-basketball-first-round-prospects/15lctixt4z6471iaxhk0bklxob

“We really emphasize player development,” assistant Jay Duncan said. “And with Semi, it was easy. His work ethic is second to none. He just lives in the gym. You can’t stress that enough. How much time the kid puts into perfecting his craft is crazy. We’d get back at something like 2 a.m. from a road game, and he’d be in the gym getting shots either after the game or first thing in the morning.”

He doesn't get the defensive stats but he shows good movement to play positional defense. There's a nice clip in the link.

[Drop Shot]

Is TJ Leaf that poor defensively?

[Psubs]

Is TJ Leaf that poor defensively?

I think he's average and puts effort into it. He seems like a mix of Keith Vanhorn and Robert Horry.

[OAKLEY_2]

Is TJ Leaf that poor defensively?

Draft.net so take as is.

"The biggest area of concern for Leaf at this point is his lack of strength ... He needs to add leg and core strength to better absorb contact and maintain balance ... The good news is that he is only 19 years old and that there’s plenty of time for his frame to fill out ... However, this hurts his ability to defend in the post where he can sometimes get pushed around ... Although he is a capable finisher at the rim, he also struggles to finish through contact and does not have great body control when attacking the basket ... As skilled as he is, rarely does he finish around the basket with his left hand ... Leaf will need to improve in this area at the next level, or it will be much more difficult for him to score consistently ... Right now he projects as more of a stretch four than a reliable go to option on the block ... Leaf also doesn’t have great length and doesn’t really project as a rim protector at the next level ... Although he has good instincts, he struggles defensively at times with longer and more athletic forwards ... "

BTW as a slight freshman he had 1.6 blocks per 40 and 10 boards per 40.

and...

"Leaf is not an elite athlete, but he is a good jumper off two feet and can finish above the rim consistently ... Even though he isn’t the quickest laterally, he does a good job of moving his feet and using his size to stay in front of quicker guards ... He also has solid defensive instincts and is a capable shot blocker ... Two of Leaf’s strongest attributes are his high basketball I.Q. and his motor ."

and...

"He plays with consistent effort and regularly makes hustle plays, particularly on the offensive glass ... Leaf is a terrific rebounder, which has a lot to do with how relentlessly he pursues the ball on both ends of the court ... Leaf’s size, versatility, feel for the game, and motor make him a prospect with a high floor ... "

[OAKLEY_2]

I think Leaf is a much better athlete than some give him credit for especially when watching him hustle offensive boards or finish alley-oops.

[Psubs]

I think Leaf is a much better athlete than some give him credit for especially when watching him hustle offensive boards or finish alley-oops.

Yup, he has some highlights of put back jams and 1-handed alley-oops like Semi.

[HeadtopChunes]

My top 5 as of now is

1. Anunoby
2. Bolden
3. Ojeleye
4. Jeanne
5. Thornwell

[OAKLEY_2]

Jonah is a good prospect but I am curious what happened at UCLA that caused him to underperform. Same with Semi at Duke. He did play with Powell as someone mentioned so he can give insight.

Also considering some GMs read this board I am guessing Jonah is not a secret and might not be available at our pick. The positive though is it might drop someone down to us.

Edit: Don't sleep on Rodions.

Well in regards to Bolden you have to keep in mind a couple things :

1. He may not have been developed as well when he first entered. If I'm not mistaken he started playing basketball a little bit later so therefore was also not as highly touted coming out of HS. But it's important that his skill base likely isn't anywhere near what it is today so he couldn't be used to do the same things on the court that he can now which plays into the next point

2. The system himself and Norm played in isn't the same one Leaf and more importantly Ball played in. The system is pretty much designed around Ball and the general idea was to create a roster much like top NBA teams : 1 dynamic playmaker, surrounded by shooters (Leaf being one of many) and rebounder/shotblocker (Anigbogu). UCLA was not constructed the same way back then n Bolden wasn't the same level of skill. The result is playing him out of character and looking underwhelming

Semi was behind Jabari Parker and Rodney Hood as a freshman. Then as a sophomore Justice Winslow was beast and Duke had a lot of guards. He could turn out to be a better shooter than Winslow with less defense.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-draft-2017-semi-ojeleye-scouting-report-combine-smu-duke-basketball-first-round-prospects/15lctixt4z6471iaxhk0bklxob

“We really emphasize player development,” assistant Jay Duncan said. “And with Semi, it was easy. His work ethic is second to none. He just lives in the gym. You can’t stress that enough. How much time the kid puts into perfecting his craft is crazy. We’d get back at something like 2 a.m. from a road game, and he’d be in the gym getting shots either after the game or first thing in the morning.”

He doesn't get the defensive stats but he shows good movement to play positional defense. There's a nice clip in the link.

I thought him against that rail thin big - number 0 was an insane mismatch. I hope we are not all over Semi as a "will-guard-Lebron" solution. He might be a very decent pick at 23 as a cheap Tucker replacement. He certainly should be in a top four at 23 conversation.