2023 Draft Discussion Part 5

[Clutch0z24]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

This kid had an extra season of sitting on the bench and practicing to figure out the college game, which is a totally different game than the NBA. Stepped on the court every night believing Hunter Dickinson was the best player on his team. Went to a blue chip school where he put up decent numbers to NOT EVEN MAKE THE TOURNAMENT. I guess the numbers on a bad team thing doesn't matter for college?

In contrast Keyonte George scores more point (albeit inefficiently) on a team with multiple upper classman guards who think it's their team, yet Keyonte swaggers on the court believing he's the best player on it. Baylor earned a 3rd seed in the tournament.

When comparing these two to what our team needs, the choice is clear to me. Did you guys watch a lot of Bufkin? Or is this mostly looking at his percentage at the rim and the highlight vids. This guy isn't another Fox just because he finishes at the rim with his left hand. How much are we putting stock in his name being Kobe?

Obviously if we draft him I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see the mentality/physicality that's going to propel this kid into becoming anything significant in the NBA. I think he's an 8th man on a good team at his peak. I would love it if the hype he's getting made a team in front of us draft him.

I like both Bufkin/George i just watch Bufkins tape and i see his game translate to a higher NBA ceiling than George....Bufkins ball handling and his ISO game impresses me....I like the rim finishing as well that shows when he gets to the rim hes able to finish in a variety of ways....George looks good as well just if i had to rank them id have Bufkin 1st on my board....I don't really look at athletic ability when im evaluating a talent cause most players that rely on athletics don't always last the longest in the NBA...

Bufkin to me just has that game where you can look at him and just tell hes a "Hooper" and i feel we need that on our team atm...

Atm my board would be

Bufkin
Wallace
George

Id be happy with any of them...But at the end of the day i trust in Masai drafting so whoever he takes ill be fine with.

What do you see Bufkin's ceiling as? I see the Fox comp on here, but Fox is the fastest guy in the league, and a much better vertical athlete. I see the poole/quickley comps, but they are also better athletes and better shooters. Who is this guy at an NBA level? Is he a lead guard?

Im not a big comparing players guy cause they never pan out that way.....Fox is a good player for Bufkin to stride to become though....I just like Bufkins all around game...Hes able to hit contested Mid range shots, Able to shoot the 3, Able to hit off the dribble jump shots, and finishes at the rim with the best of them. Can develop into a PG cause he has a good handle as well and decent vision.

With George i also see a great player....Someone who is just a hooper and can get you buckets....To me either one i would be fine with and personally i think for the Raptors its going to come down to Bufkin vs George cause i think Black and Wallace will be off the board at 13....

I do not see the Raptors drafting anything but a guard....Hawkins and Nick Smith could be dark horse picks....Ill trust Masai though with whatever guard he takes...If we trade for Scoot though than the 13th pick could be a complete different player.

[C_Money]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

Honestly, it's highly unlikely we find high end talent at 13 so that's something we shouldn't put a lot of emphasis on. I would rather focus on someone with a high floor than a high ceiling.

Secondly, what's the difference between Keyonte George and James Bouknight?

This is the problem, and it extends from Bouknight to guys like Jordan Poole. These smaller scoring guards are great in the regular season and can catch a 20 point game from time to time, but in the clutch and in the playoffs they get played off the floor because they are targets on defense and they lack elite scoring ability.

Unless you can stop NBA guards as a POA defender and even guard up a position or two, it is tough to see a future unless you are an elite shotmaker like Jamal Murray or D'Aaron Fox or Brunson or Mitchell. These 2023 draft combo guards are all on the small side and likely not going to be huge factors on defense.

Long-term, guys like Bufkin, Hawkins, George, Smith Jr. are all 6 man types at best unless they take a fairly unprecedently leap in scoring efficiency. Guys like Wallace, Black and maybe Hood-Schifino have a shot at starting because of their size and defensive potential but the question about whether these guys have starter level offense is another consideration.

I would say every team needs at least one of these guys for your offence. Guys that can get creative with the ball and break down the defence. We have zero guys that can do that and we’re the ugliest halfcourt team to watch because of it.

[C_Money]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

Honestly, it's highly unlikely we find high end talent at 13 so that's something we shouldn't put a lot of emphasis on. I would rather focus on someone with a high floor than a high ceiling.

Secondly, what's the difference between Keyonte George and James Bouknight?

Thats what makes this scouting so hard and why the NBA draft probably has more busts than any other sport.

I was so high on Bouknight I thought we should have taken him 4th.

[Psubs]

Apparently this Toronto-based writer Esfandiar Barajeni confirms that Max Lewis has already worked out for the Raptors. Kind of explains that Raptor's shorts. Read into it what you will, I just think he is likely BPA at 13.

Read on Twitter

If we picked Max at 13 I would be quite happy because they must really see something in him. Has that smooth Tatum style game and measured bigger than I expected. Would be a very interesting pick.

Ugh. Please trade down to #20 and #21 for him. Might be as successful as Joey Graham.

[causal_fan]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

Honestly, it's highly unlikely we find high end talent at 13 so that's something we shouldn't put a lot of emphasis on. I would rather focus on someone with a high floor than a high ceiling.

Secondly, what's the difference between Keyonte George and James Bouknight?

Thats what makes this scouting so hard and why the NBA draft probably has more busts than any other sport.

I was so high on Bouknight I thought we should have taken him 4th.

I think baseball is the most difficult sport to scout because the prospects are so far away and baseball easily has more high draft bust than any other sport.

[Dalek]

If we picked Max at 13 I would be quite happy because they must really see something in him. Has that smooth Tatum style game and measured bigger than I expected. Would be a very interesting pick.

I agree with you there, because the Raps would be going against their usual solid analytics approach because they see potential in Lewis.

If drafted, I am just mainly happy to see a guy in our system that can dunk and bring some excitement. This team as currently constructed is such a bunch of solid functionally athletic guys.

It would be nice to have a guy around who put the ball on the floor and dunk. It has been missing for years.

[Jadoogar]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

Honestly, it's highly unlikely we find high end talent at 13 so that's something we shouldn't put a lot of emphasis on. I would rather focus on someone with a high floor than a high ceiling.

Secondly, what's the difference between Keyonte George and James Bouknight?

Thats what makes this scouting so hard and why the NBA draft probably has more busts than any other sport.

I was so high on Bouknight I thought we should have taken him 4th.

I'm very cautious on these types of players. The scoring looks great but you need to offer atleast one more aspect weather it be playmaking, defense or elite off ball skill. Otherwise your ceiling will always be 6th man.
I wasn't super high on Jalen Green for this reason.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Bufkin is the age of many true freshman and he put up 17/6/4 with 1stl 1blk on 52/45/90 over his last two months as mentioned above ^^^ on a weird bad team that didn't help him pad stats in any capacity. That's pretty impressive.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Apparently this Toronto-based writer Esfandiar Barajeni confirms that Max Lewis has already worked out for the Raptors. Kind of explains that Raptor's shorts. Read into it what you will, I just think he is likely BPA at 13.

Read on Twitter

If we picked Max at 13 I would be quite happy because they must really see something in him. Has that smooth Tatum style game and measured bigger than I expected. Would be a very interesting pick.

Ugh. Please trade down to #20 and #21 for him. Might be as successful as Joey Graham.

True but if he hits he's not just gonna be an average player, he's a guaranteed all-star given what he can do on the court. He's gonna need an organization that invests in his development and Masai is no stranger to taking guys and believing he can develop them.

[Clutch0z24]

Apparently this Toronto-based writer Esfandiar Barajeni confirms that Max Lewis has already worked out for the Raptors. Kind of explains that Raptor's shorts. Read into it what you will, I just think he is likely BPA at 13.

Read on Twitter

If we traded for 3 and got Scoot Max Lewis at 13 would be decent....Scoot/Max/Barnes trio would be fun.

[deeps6x]

I'd love to pry #9 and #16 from Utah. I wonder what it would take to get that done.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I can't even explain the ways in which I've seen Max Lewis score but these are definitely some of them:

-Hesitation dribble pull up jumpshots + crossover drive & pull up j
-Cutting to basket as lob threat
-Stepback jump shots from midrange and downtown
-Backing people down in the post then turnaround push shot or fadeaway jumpshot
-Bank shots
-High off glass driving to the rim, uses the glass well
-Driving by closeouts and dunking
-Catch and shoot all around arc
-Spin move and finish
-Up and under moves near the rim
-Eurostep layups
etc....

He has the deepest bag of tricks of ANYONE in the draft.

It's not clouding my overall perception of him, but this is incredibly impressive for someone who started playing organized basketball in 2016-2017 and he should be commended for displaying such incredible depth of skill and scoring ability.

There's no way Masai takes him at #13 but he could be under consideration if they acquire more picks as a project player with an incredibly high payout if they can get him to hit. He's an athletic freak with a very good feel for the game on offense and his shot is borderline incapable of being guarded. There might come a point where he realizes that even at the highest level he cannot be stopped and it will flip a switch and he'll become something special. Of course, that may never happen either, that's why he ain't going 13.

[grant101]

I can't even explain the ways in which I've seen Max Lewis score but these are definitely some of them:

-Hesitation dribble pull up jumpshots + crossover drive & pull up j
-Cutting to basket as lob threat
-Stepback jump shots from midrange and downtown
-Backing people down in the post then turnaround push shot or fadeaway jumpshot
-Bank shots
-High off glass driving to the rim, uses the glass well
-Driving by closeouts and dunking
-Catch and shoot all around arc
-Spin move and finish
-Up and under moves near the rim
-Eurostep layups
etc....

He has the deepest bag of tricks of ANYONE in the draft.

It's not clouding my overall perception of him, but this is incredibly impressive for someone who started playing organized basketball in 2016-2017 and he should be commended for displaying such incredible depth of skill and scoring ability.

There's no way Masai takes him at #13 but he could be under consideration if they acquire more picks as a project player with an incredibly high payout if they can get him to hit. He's an athletic freak with a very good feel for the game on offense and his shot is borderline incapable of being guarded. There might come a point where he realizes that even at the highest level he cannot be stopped and it will flip a switch and he'll become something special. Of course, that may never happen either, that's why he ain't going 13.

I agree with this - his offensive game is weirdly mature for a college player, and the tools are all there. That said, he's on the older side, and from the games i've watched he plays soft, with low effort and poor awareness - especially on D. He reminds me a bit of Kelly Oubre. I was very high on Pepperdine coming into the year and came away very dissapointed. I'd be ok with missing on Lewis.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I can't even explain the ways in which I've seen Max Lewis score but these are definitely some of them:

-Hesitation dribble pull up jumpshots + crossover drive & pull up j
-Cutting to basket as lob threat
-Stepback jump shots from midrange and downtown
-Backing people down in the post then turnaround push shot or fadeaway jumpshot
-Bank shots
-High off glass driving to the rim, uses the glass well
-Driving by closeouts and dunking
-Catch and shoot all around arc
-Spin move and finish
-Up and under moves near the rim
-Eurostep layups
etc....

He has the deepest bag of tricks of ANYONE in the draft.

It's not clouding my overall perception of him, but this is incredibly impressive for someone who started playing organized basketball in 2016-2017 and he should be commended for displaying such incredible depth of skill and scoring ability.

There's no way Masai takes him at #13 but he could be under consideration if they acquire more picks as a project player with an incredibly high payout if they can get him to hit. He's an athletic freak with a very good feel for the game on offense and his shot is borderline incapable of being guarded. There might come a point where he realizes that even at the highest level he cannot be stopped and it will flip a switch and he'll become something special. Of course, that may never happen either, that's why he ain't going 13.

I agree with this - his offensive game is weirdly mature for a college player, and the tools are all there. That said, he's on the older side, and from the games i've watched he plays soft, with low effort and poor awareness - especially on D. He reminds me a bit of Kelly Oubre. I was very high on Pepperdine coming into the year and came away very dissapointed. I'd be ok with missing on Lewis.

He looks like Kevin Durant after having taken 6 shots of vodka on offense

[Syd-TK3]

I can't even explain the ways in which I've seen Max Lewis score but these are definitely some of them:

-Hesitation dribble pull up jumpshots + crossover drive & pull up j
-Cutting to basket as lob threat
-Stepback jump shots from midrange and downtown
-Backing people down in the post then turnaround push shot or fadeaway jumpshot
-Bank shots
-High off glass driving to the rim, uses the glass well
-Driving by closeouts and dunking
-Catch and shoot all around arc
-Spin move and finish
-Up and under moves near the rim
-Eurostep layups
etc....

He has the deepest bag of tricks of ANYONE in the draft.

It's not clouding my overall perception of him, but this is incredibly impressive for someone who started playing organized basketball in 2016-2017 and he should be commended for displaying such incredible depth of skill and scoring ability.

There's no way Masai takes him at #13 but he could be under consideration if they acquire more picks as a project player with an incredibly high payout if they can get him to hit. He's an athletic freak with a very good feel for the game on offense and his shot is borderline incapable of being guarded. There might come a point where he realizes that even at the highest level he cannot be stopped and it will flip a switch and he'll become something special. Of course, that may never happen either, that's why he ain't going 13.

He's become extremely underrated for whatever reason I've seen him out the first round in mocks recently

[HumbleRen]

I'm cool on Max Lewis.

[ArthurVandelay]

Negative DBPM is a huge pass for me. Can anyone find a successful NBA player with a negative DBPM in college?

Success is > 5 years in league.

Then his OBPM is only 1.9.

I am shocked Raptors would even work him out but due diligence I guess.

[Psubs]

We all like Benedict Mathurin, right? He shot 32.3% from 3 last season and had an A/T <1

[PhilBlackson]

For me I basically have 3 Tiers of Prospects I like...

Why is Keyonte at a higher level than Bufkin even though he's older and was much worse in college?

Bufkin's numbers got better when his usage went up following Howard getting injured and he damn near shot 50/40/85 in the last 16 games of the season. He's also taller than Keyonte and shot 70% at the rim.

I keep seeing sentiments similar to yours feeling Keyonte has star potential but I don't see why its also common to see Kobe as a decent guard who could be a good starter or something. I honestly feel like Kobe's production should warrant the hype Keyonte has been getting and not the other way around.

I wouldn't hate a Keyonte pick but I def would rather have Bufkin. Guys that show they can steadily improve especially within season means they are putting work in

IMO George is a higher level because he just flat out is a way more skilled ballhandler that he can pretty much get off his shot when he wants which I already know ahead of time that everyone is going to want to pounce at his "efficiency". Yes of course everyone knows he didn't have the kind of shooting season that was EXPECTED (keyword) going in and for me, hearing that he was dealing with a lingering ankle injury that also made him play well above what he considered his ideal game shape makes a lot of sense for some his shortcomings this past year. People thought he looked less explosive in his dunks, that he wasn't creating the same amount of separation as he was in highschool. Well if you have a bum ankle, it's hard to plant your leg to make hard cuts/changes of direction and obviously getting up to punch it the way you used to...

All I've heard about his combine workout is that people in attendance were raving about how much more explosive he looked, that he looked to be in excellent shape and while nothing can be made too much of training drills, his jumper apparently looked really good which all falls back in line with what was known of him, pre-college...but who knows?! Maybe it's hype & why he's not at the top of my board...but if it isn't and he has extra pop off the dribble to create more space, he's able to get higher on his drives...that all to me can add up to some obviously better percentages -- and I also left out that he's a very underrated passer & solid defender. But if George is hitting at greater efficiency, he has all the skills & tools of star guards that we already see in the league and it's why Keyonte came in being perceived as a top 5-10 pick. I realize none of that is a guarantee & it's why he's 3rd and not 1st on my list.

As for Bufkin, I'll get it out of the way and say it has nothing to do with his lack of hype coming in (like KG), I loved Jalen Williams last year, so it's nothing to do with that just to be clear. Bufkin can definitely shoot the ball which is nice and of course we all know we need shooting. But watching Bufkin's game, I think he's a rock solid type of player (something like Cason), he's mainly good coming off of different picks & of course has some fantastic touch around the rim. BUT he really doesn't have something "extra" that most other top players have...he's not a superior athlete, he's not really that skilled of a ballhandler -- again solid but he doesn't have the kind of arsenal when defences lock into a guy in the Playoffs where he has the kind of creativity off the hop where he can just get to his spots. He has a few counters but nothing that really jumps out at you. So that to me seems like a Dimwiddie type of offensive player, really good but not quite enough and I think better defences will be able to force the ball out of his hands easier (as in having to pass the ball). Would I still think he can be an upgrade over Gary?! Sure and it's why he's still on my list, I think he could add a little extra punch with his drives than Gary could and obviously a better defender. So I do see him helping us improve and maybe there's something I'm missing but I just don't see any "star" quality to him but surely a damn good, solid player. Just my 2c.

[WuTang_CMB]

Raps wont touch Lewis