2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 5

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

All this 5-8 talk is gonna be pointless after we move up and win capture the Flagg, leetttssss gooooooo! NBA prevented us from drafting Iverson, so now we’re calling in that favour, it’s reparation time.

Flagg almost certainly isn't the franchise changing superstar people think he is. He's just a really good wing you can win with who gets by on effort, athleticism/dimensions and feel more than pure skill. At this point I'd say he is being overrated and overhyped.

Cooper isn’t Wemby, but im gonna have to disagree vehemently on the notion Cooper is overhyped. He deserves the hype, he’s going to be great. Do you win a chip if he’s your number 1 option on offence? Maybe not, depends on the types of guys he’s playing with. But I’m sold that he will be every bit of that #1 selection.

He's nowhere near Wemby and highly unlikely to end up with 40+ vorp. He's a culture guy more than anything. His ORB% and stock rates are not that great TBH.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[BoyzNTheHood]

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I love how whenever the Raps pick it's always the guy we're all skeptical about, but screw it, stick him in Canada cause who gives a crap.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

All this 5-8 talk is gonna be pointless after we move up and win capture the Flagg, leetttssss gooooooo! NBA prevented us from drafting Iverson, so now we’re calling in that favour, it’s reparation time.

Flagg almost certainly isn't the franchise changing superstar people think he is. He's just a really good wing you can win with who gets by on effort, athleticism/dimensions and feel more than pure skill. At this point I'd say he is being overrated and overhyped.

He'd be in the mix with Dybansta, Peterson and Boozer.

He's supposed to be in highschool and already is an 85% FT shooter than went 8 for 8 in the championship semifinal game. He's already a better 3pt shooter than Scottie. He'll likely be a better 3pt shooter than MJ or Kobe.

Only players I would trade him for would be SGA, Wemby, Jokic.

See this is what I'm pushing back against, the idea that someone would legit only trade Flagg for SGA Wemby and Jokic.

[Syd-TK3]

What will make me sick is if Houston who are at 9th rn jump into the top 4 while the 76ers move back to 7....Both teams win over 50 games In Rockets/OKC add top prospects to already good teams....And we somehow move down to 8/9 or 10th....

Reason i say that is because i run one tankathon sim a day and today it landed on

I hate the sixers and that shameless organization so id be perfectly fine with them giving away the pick.

[CanadaB-Ball]

Flagg almost certainly isn't the franchise changing superstar people think he is. He's just a really good wing you can win with who gets by on effort, athleticism/dimensions and feel more than pure skill. At this point I'd say he is being overrated and overhyped.

Cooper isn’t Wemby, but im gonna have to disagree vehemently on the notion Cooper is overhyped. He deserves the hype, he’s going to be great. Do you win a chip if he’s your number 1 option on offence? Maybe not, depends on the types of guys he’s playing with. But I’m sold that he will be every bit of that #1 selection.

He's nowhere near Wemby and highly unlikely to end up with 40+ vorp. He's a culture guy more than anything. His ORB% and stock rates are not that great TBH.

Hate to say it, since I happen to agree with your approach of leading with statistical evaluation, but you’re wrong on Flagg. He’ll be a superstar.

Feel free to come back to this post in three years.

[PushDaRock]

Cooper isn’t Wemby, but im gonna have to disagree vehemently on the notion Cooper is overhyped. He deserves the hype, he’s going to be great. Do you win a chip if he’s your number 1 option on offence? Maybe not, depends on the types of guys he’s playing with. But I’m sold that he will be every bit of that #1 selection.

He's nowhere near Wemby and highly unlikely to end up with 40+ vorp. He's a culture guy more than anything. His ORB% and stock rates are not that great TBH.

Hate to say it, since I happen to agree with your approach of leading with statistical evaluation, but you’re wrong on Flagg. He’ll be a superstar.

Feel free to come back to this post in three years.

Depends on your definition of Superstar. I think Top 15 player in the league potential, Flagg definitely has that. Top 5 in the league I'm not so sure.

[Dalek]

My controversial take is that Tre Johnson is going to be a jumbo PG at the next level.

He may not be as high level a passer, but I think he could be a guy you build an offense around like Ty Haliburton. Tre is a three level scorer whose passing really went unnoticed, IMO. He is a high level processor who at worse is combo guard like Devin Booker.

He is definitely a guy in that top five for me, likely higher than Edgecombe and maybe even Ace.

[PoundTown]

My controversial take is that Tre Johnson is going to be a jumbo PG at the next level.

He may not be as high level a passer, but I think he could be a guy you build an offense around like Ty Haliburton. Tre is a three level scorer whose passing really went unnoticed, IMO. He is a high level processor who at worse is combo guard like Devin Booker.

He is definitely a guy in that top five for me, likely higher than Edgecombe and maybe even Ace.

He’s definitely in the same tier as ace and VJ, and im kind of close to putting derik queen in that group too because I believe in his offence so much, defence is the big point of concern with that one. But, tre is being overlooked. I might have him 3rd overall.

[Indeed]

My controversial take is that Tre Johnson is going to be a jumbo PG at the next level.

He may not be as high level a passer, but I think he could be a guy you build an offense around like Ty Haliburton. Tre is a three level scorer whose passing really went unnoticed, IMO. He is a high level processor who at worse is combo guard like Devin Booker.

He is definitely a guy in that top five for me, likely higher than Edgecombe and maybe even Ace.

He’s definitely in the same tier as ace and VJ, and im kind of close to putting derik queen in that group too because I believe in his offence so much, defence is the big point of concern with that one. But, tre is being overlooked. I might have him 3rd overall.

He is not a PG though, as his assist rate seems to be lower in the SG.
Meanwhile, he is definitely near Bailey and Edgecombe. I think people have him lower due to defense and getting to the rim, he is more a jump shooter (eg. Joe Johnson).

I think Tre Johnson and Fears are closer to that tier. Queen seems to be tough at ranking him with them due to defensive potential, Queen is definitely limited on the defensive end.

[PhilBlackson]

Personally I have VJ, Tre, Fears & Queen all in the same tier.

I can see any of them becoming all-star level players. Still have Ace just a slight notch above because his combination of height, athleticism & shooting ability is just rare, if he gets coached up/developed the right way he has a chance to be "superstar". Not necessarily a MVP level player but damn good and popular player like Ja, Ant etc. but so much of that will be dependent on him having the right culture/people around him.

Obv Flagg is the dream scenario but I'd happy af with any of the other names just listed. HM Maluach who I'd just trust our developmental team to turn into a really good player but very slight notch below the rest I listed.

[raptor jesus]

Fears doesn't look like the special-type of athlete at the guard position ala Russ, Rose, Ja that makes it easier to overlook his flaws (poor shooting and eye-popping turnover numbers). I'd let another team try to make that work. Maluach is another guy I'd feel comfortable letting another team try to maximize. I must say, the more I look into this draft, the less I like it. At the moment, Tre, Kon and Queen are the guys I'm most interested in assuming the Raps stay at 7-8.

[Indeed]

Fears doesn't look like the special-type of athlete at the guard position ala Russ, Rose, Ja that makes it easier to overlook his flaws (poor shooting and eye-popping turnover numbers). I'd let another team try to make that work. Maluach is another guy I'd feel comfortable letting another team try to maximize. I must say, the more I look into this draft, the less I like it. At the moment, Tre, Kon and Queen are the guys I'm most interested in assuming the Raps stay at 7-8.

His turnovers are align with most freshman, and his assist rate is pretty high, so the assist / turnover ratio are still good for a PG.
As for comparing to elite athlete guards, they don't come that often these days with the same skill level.

The only concern for Fears are shooting and defense, yet, his shooting aren't bad, particularly, many are pull ups. He is comparable to Tre Johnson with not as a good finisher. Afterall, it is more about buying his defense or not.

You can argue we have enough guards, but it is hard not to put him in the Tre Johnson tier if he can show better defense (particularly showing better effort).

[Duffman100]

Every mock I watch has us taking Malauch. It just feels lazy and I get frustrated.

[raptor jesus]

Fears doesn't look like the special-type of athlete at the guard position ala Russ, Rose, Ja that makes it easier to overlook his flaws (poor shooting and eye-popping turnover numbers). I'd let another team try to make that work. Maluach is another guy I'd feel comfortable letting another team try to maximize. I must say, the more I look into this draft, the less I like it. At the moment, Tre, Kon and Queen are the guys I'm most interested in assuming the Raps stay at 7-8.

His turnovers are align with most freshman, and his assist rate is pretty high, so the assist / turnover ratio are still good for a PG.
As for comparing to elite athlete guards, they don't come that often these days with the same skill level.

The only concern for Fears are shooting and defense, yet, his shooting aren't bad, particularly, many are pull ups. He is comparable to Tre Johnson with not as a good finisher. Afterall, it is more about buying his defense or not.

You can argue we have enough guards, but it is hard not to put him in the Tre Johnson tier if he can show better defense (particularly showing better effort).

140 assists to 116 turnovers is concerning at the college level, even for a freshman. Jakuciunas is in the same territory, but other freshman guards like Philon (140/64) and Fland (108/29) turned the ball over much less. Not saying those guys are better prospects than Fears, but explaining away his turnovers to being a freshman doesn't fly imo.

[Indeed]

Fears doesn't look like the special-type of athlete at the guard position ala Russ, Rose, Ja that makes it easier to overlook his flaws (poor shooting and eye-popping turnover numbers). I'd let another team try to make that work. Maluach is another guy I'd feel comfortable letting another team try to maximize. I must say, the more I look into this draft, the less I like it. At the moment, Tre, Kon and Queen are the guys I'm most interested in assuming the Raps stay at 7-8.

His turnovers are align with most freshman, and his assist rate is pretty high, so the assist / turnover ratio are still good for a PG.
As for comparing to elite athlete guards, they don't come that often these days with the same skill level.

The only concern for Fears are shooting and defense, yet, his shooting aren't bad, particularly, many are pull ups. He is comparable to Tre Johnson with not as a good finisher. Afterall, it is more about buying his defense or not.

You can argue we have enough guards, but it is hard not to put him in the Tre Johnson tier if he can show better defense (particularly showing better effort).

140 assists to 116 turnovers is concerning at the college level, even for a freshman. Jakuciunas is in the same territory, but other freshman guards like Philon (140/64) and Fland (108/29) turned the ball over much less. Not saying those guys are better prospects than Fears, but explaining away his turnovers to being a freshman doesn't fly imo.

20.2% TO rate for Fears, 25.4% for Jakucionis, 17.2% for Philon.
Fland is the only one being outstanding, 10.5% turnover rate, and a 3.7% A/TO, which leads freshman and being in the top 3 (Ryan Nembhard being 1st, with 4.0%, I believe).

Fears is around average among freshmen for turnover, and his usage is pretty high. I think the focus is how he turned the ball over. Most likely from driving without clear path for the pass and lack of strength, which believe it can be improved slightly.

Before 9 mins of the video talked about passing:

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[MEDIC]

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I love how whenever the Raps pick it's always the guy we're all skeptical about, but screw it, stick him in Canada cause who gives a crap.

I don't see Jak as a top 10 pick. There are so many players I would take over him, including Maluach & Walter Clayton Jr.......and I am not even super high on those guys.

[S.W.A.N]

Every mock I watch has us taking Malauch. It just feels lazy and I get frustrated.

its not lazy. its destiny

[Saul Goodman]

If the Raptors end up with Tre Johnson they would be swamped at guard. Could they get another pick for Gradey Dick to get Khamam as well


Gradey Dick
#40


For

#8

[PushDaRock]

Fears doesn't look like the special-type of athlete at the guard position ala Russ, Rose, Ja that makes it easier to overlook his flaws (poor shooting and eye-popping turnover numbers). I'd let another team try to make that work. Maluach is another guy I'd feel comfortable letting another team try to maximize. I must say, the more I look into this draft, the less I like it. At the moment, Tre, Kon and Queen are the guys I'm most interested in assuming the Raps stay at 7-8.

Yeah, he's definitely not an elite athlete by any stretch. He's probably closer to an IQ level athlete if anything. He's a horrid finisher at the rim and it seems pretty unlikely that his incredibly high FTR translates over to the NBA at least right away. The shooting will obviously need to improve a lot as well but the FT % gives some hope there. But even if it does, what's the likely result? Maybe a Jordan Poole type player?