Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread

[DG88]

Honestly, if I were a player, I'd be more interested in ensuring that no matter where I play, there's a chance the team I'm on has a chance to be competitive. This is why I don't understand the players' ire about an increasing luxury tax, even if it is tantamount to a hard cap at a certain level. Not everyone can play for the Lakers, of the Mavs, or the Knicks. The majority of players will likely end up on a team that, no matter what, will want to maintain some sense of fiscal responsibility, so it would behoove them to accept a structure that, at the very least, offers some attempt at parity.

Exactly the point I made in the last page. The majority of team now don't even go over the luxury tax in the old system. So making a harsher one won't change that. It really puts into question how much the players care about being competitive. The two blood issues were the hard cap and non guaranteed contracts. The owners came up with a harsher luxury tax and guaranteed contracts yet it still a hard cap. Stop belly aching because I believe this is the best the players will get.

all of these guys have egos.
its another sport, but look at hockey. Look what Doughtey did on LA. he wouldn't sign unless he was the highest paid player on the team.
couldn't care less about chemistry or about keeping their young talent.
they all want what's best for them. winning is secondary.

It's true and it sad as well. You could say that the corruption of money has made the players forget why they love to play the game of basketball. They don't play it because they love to compete against one another, they just do it for the money and fame.

[Homer Jay]

Exactly the point I made in the last page. The majority of team now don't even go over the luxury tax in the old system. So making a harsher one won't change that. It really puts into question how much the players care about being competitive. The two blood issues were the hard cap and non guaranteed contracts. The owners came up with a harsher luxury tax and guaranteed contracts yet it still a hard cap. Stop belly aching because I believe this is the best the players will get.

all of these guys have egos.
its another sport, but look at hockey. Look what Doughtey did on LA. he wouldn't sign unless he was the highest paid player on the team.
couldn't care less about chemistry or about keeping their young talent.
they all want what's best for them. winning is secondary.

It's true and it sad as well. You could say that the corruption of money has made the players forget why they love to play the game of basketball. They don't play it because they love to compete against one another, they just do it for the money and fame.

As the owners tighten up the share of BRI, you will see the players start to turn on each other for whats left. Plain and simple you get the idea that Wade's putting out there that's he worth 50 million, and only making 17, is because he has to share it with scrubs that nobody is coming to see.

[Salted Meat]

all of these guys have egos.
its another sport, but look at hockey. Look what Doughtey did on LA. he wouldn't sign unless he was the highest paid player on the team.
couldn't care less about chemistry or about keeping their young talent.
they all want what's best for them. winning is secondary.

It's true and it sad as well. You could say that the corruption of money has made the players forget why they love to play the game of basketball. They don't play it because they love to compete against one another, they just do it for the money and fame.

Then their union truly has failed them.

The union's purpose is to promote and ensure the health and well-being of the collective, even if it comes at the expense of a few who might stand to make more in a free-for-all system.

In Doughety's case, his actions completely go against the union's interests, and sets an unfortunate precedent for future players, because it reduces the collective bargaining power of the union, since owners have elephant-like memory when it comes to situations like this, and no owner wants to effectively have his franchise's future hijacked by someone who can't see past his own bank account. The NHLPA should really look into this and, if they were serious about ensuring the collective health of their members, and serious about maintaining one shred of credibility at the bargaining table for the next CBA, they'd reprimand Doughtey severely. That's what being in a union is supposed to be all about: all for one, and one for all.

Once the individual starts taking precedence over the collective, then the union no longer has a place, because everyone has to buy into it in order for it to work. You can't have some people sacrificing for the better of the whole, and have some people putting themselves first. The NBAPA wants to maintain minimum salary expectations, a minimum % of revenues, and keep all of the lovely little frills that being a professional athlete entails, but they also want a free-market system that entices owners to overspend and outbid each other, which is largely what has created this two-tiered system of have's and have-nots that we currently see in the league.

The NBAPA really should concede the tiered luxury tax. It's in the best interest of the league as a whole- owners and players.

[knickerbocker2k2]

Some of you are not considering how important of an issue the luxury tax is. It currently discourages most teams for going over it, and if you make it more punitive it will essentially act as salary cap as no team would want to be in luxury tax zone.

Currently only teams with plans of deep playoff runs go over the luxury tax. Usually this is 4-5 teams. But without these teams it would significantly lessen demand for MLE type of players. Every summer you see 4-5 MLE contracts handed out by these teams usually running into 4/30,5/40 type of contracts. This usually sets the market. If these teams (Lakers, Celtics, Mavs, etc) are not willing to go into luxury tax, than you would lose your market setters and this dramatically effect the middle class of the league.

[DG88]

Some of you are not considering how important of an issue the luxury tax is. It currently discourages most teams for going over it, and if you make it more punitive it will essentially act as salary cap as no team would want to be in luxury tax zone.

Currently only teams with plans of deep playoff runs go over the luxury tax. Usually this is 4-5 teams. But without these teams it would significantly lessen demand for MLE type of players. Every summer you see 4-5 MLE contracts handed out by these teams usually running into 4/30,5/40 type of contracts. This usually sets the market. If these teams (Lakers, Celtics, Mavs, etc) are not willing to go into luxury tax, than you would lose your market setters and this dramatically effect the middle class of the league.

The MLE either needs to go or needs to be reduce in $ amount and years. What MLE player so far has made a huge contribution to a playoff team in the last couple of years. The only one that comes to mind is Ron Artest. There will still be teams that will go over the luxury tax. You'd think that since the owners put out this harsher luxury tax that they would still go into it if necessary. Either way most teams don't go over the luxury tax anyways.

[carlosey]

Good points guys. For sure this is becoming the ego of the top 20 paid players and the union with no regard for the rest of the players. The union has indeed failed the entire player body as a whole. Wade is not there because he cares about the players and the union he only cares about his 50 million. Well said.

[DG88]

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
From the NBA and union labor meeting today, there's been "progress" says source in the room. No details offered. Groups still meeting.

[DG88]

KBergCBS Ken Berger
On serious note, #lockout parties have broken for lunch. Source briefed on talks says owners expected to "bring something to the table."

[arbsn]

owners: we want 50 new bentleys
players: we demand 10 new bentleys each
owners: no, we will only give u 7 new bentleys
players: is that some sort of joke? quit insulting us
owners: you don't deserve those extra bentleys
players: i'm not your child you don't choose how many bentleys i get
owners: but we own you...

[Dr Positivity]

Wade is the clown who said superstars are underpaid. Nuff said.

Superstars really are underpaid. It's a necessary evil

[DG88]

KBergCBS Ken Berger
"Going pretty good," committee member Mo Evans said on his way out. "Exchanging proposals back and forth."

[DG88]

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Only non-economic proposals were exchanged today, person briefed on talks says. Could be using system issues to back into the big one: BRI.

[S.W.A.N]

Good points guys. For sure this is becoming the ego of the top 20 paid players and the union with no regard for the rest of the players. The union has indeed failed the entire player body as a whole. Wade is not there because he cares about the players and the union he only cares about his 50 million. Well said.

Wow could you have that more backwards.

[DG88]

Talks have reach 6 1/2 hours now. Longest session since the lockout began

[DG88]

7 hours and counting

[HSOB SIRHC]

Meeting is over. Cross your fingers for some good news.

[KRANG]

thanks for the updates DG88 and HSOB.

[HSOB SIRHC]

@Monroe_SA Mike Monroe
Matt Bonner on @nba lockout talks: 'some closing of gaps buit remember how large gaps were to begin with'

[HSOB SIRHC]

Bummer...

@Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
No meeting tomorrow. Some time next week they'll meet again....bonner gave me impression that not much progress made

[UGA Hayes]

To be fair Broussard sounds like he is just interpreting the progress comment, not really adding anything.