Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb (HOU)

[Anatomize]

Damn DH, look at that wingspan..

[barrist]

i saw pretty much all the Riga games (to watch JV).. Lamb seemed to disappear alot. But he did show up in the LT-USA game.

I've seen the same thing happen every year for the last 15 years--fans dissect player's weaknesses to the point where everybody (except the guys beyond your teams reach) seems like "garbage". It happened to Rudy Gay, it happened to Valanciunas. If the rest of the world hadn't congratulated Colangelo on a brilliant pick, this board would still be trashing Valanciunas.

I was excited about drafting JV and would have been happy with Rudy as well.

I don't really know who the best pick is tbh. Just stating what I saw when I saw him play, I wouldn't take it too personally.

[nowayguy]

The biggest reason why fans of our team doubt our picks is due to a very very poor drafting history; this only makes people more sceptical about our next pick.

Yeah this is spot on. When I'm watching the NFL Draft, it's a happy day for me as a Packers fan. When I'm watching the NBA Draft, praying whoever the Raps draft becomes a decent player.

The Raps have drafted well the last few years, so I'm not sure why this is still an issue. You need to let the Hoffa and Graham picks go dudes. That's ancient history.

This team hasn't gone anywhere with the players they've drafted though. Until they win a playoff series I think most people will remain skeptical when it comes to the Raps draft.

[Fenris-77]

The Raps have drafted well the last few years, so I'm not sure why this is still an issue. You need to let the Hoffa and Graham picks go dudes. That's ancient history.

[Anatomize]

The Raps have drafted well the last few years, so I'm not sure why this is still an issue. You need to let the Hoffa and Graham picks go dudes. That's ancient history.

DeRozan and Ed Davis haven't exactly shown much (Ed Davis much more so in his second year).. and both have in fact regressed this past season.

They're decent players given their pick range.. just nothing to be enamoured with. That being said, there were players picked after both DeRozan and Ed Davis who may have better careers moving forward (if not already).

DeRozan draft class: Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague

Ed Davis: Patrick Patterson (arguable), Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley (when playing starters minutes - very productive on both ends), Jordan Crawford (can light it up - but is a chucker).

Valanciunas remains to be seen. We think he'll be a stud, but nothing is guaranteed until you see him play.

Again, if we're talking about the whole picture, it's pretty grim. We've not only drafted poorly, we've also dealt draft picks which turned out to be very valuable pieces for other teams, leaving us with zilch.

In fact, I was quite frustrated when we took Ed Davis over Bradley. Our scouts were very excited about Bradley's showing at our workouts, liked his defensive tenacity, and saw offensive upside. He dominated on-ball defense in the scrimmages. Why the hell didn't we take him? We had a huge need for a PG with upside, and he even plays combo-guard now for Boston and guards some of the top twos in the league.

When a guy like Ed Davis slides as much as he did (despite being projected as a top lottery pick), there must be a reason why. Even if he had a torn wrist or what not, if he's a very good prospect, someone will take a flier on him. I can't see his wrist being the only reason he dropped to 13. With no work outs to base that pick on, it was a risky take on our part. He definitely lacks some motor, seems to fade in and out during games (coasts from time to time on either end), doesn't have a plethora of post moves to go to, no jumpshot, and a small frame to boot. Not to mention his work ethic has been questioned.

[Fenris-77]

At their spots both guys were excellent picks, and most people thought so at the time. I'm not even going to bother going into detail here actually. I f you think the Davis and DeRozan picks were terrible then You're probably out to lunch.

You're reading of who went after who is completely 20-20 hindsight too. The only guy there that really should have been the pick is Lawson, and even then there are solid reasons to pass on him (even if I don't agree with all of them).

Revisionist history is for wankers.

[Anatomize]

At their spots both guys were excellent picks, and most people thought so at the time. I'm not even going to bother going into detail here actually. I f you think the Davis and DeRozan picks were terrible then You're probably out to lunch.

You're reading of who went after who is completely 20-20 hindsight too. The only guy there that really should have been the pick is Lawson, and even then there are solid reasons to pass on him (even if I don't agree with all of them).

Revisionist history is for wankers.

What are you reading? You may want to read my post over again.. I didn't say they were terrible picks..

[Kid Canada]

The Raps have drafted well the last few years, so I'm not sure why this is still an issue. You need to let the Hoffa and Graham picks go dudes. That's ancient history.

DeRozan and Ed Davis haven't exactly shown much (Ed Davis much more so in his second year).. and both have in fact regressed this past season.

They're decent players given their pick range.. just nothing to be enamoured with. That being said, there were players picked after both DeRozan and Ed Davis who may have better careers moving forward (if not already).

DeRozan draft class: Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague

Ed Davis: Patrick Patterson (arguable), Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley (when playing starters minutes - very productive on both ends), Jordan Crawford (can light it up - but is a chucker).

Valanciunas remains to be seen. We think he'll be a stud, but nothing is guaranteed until you see him play.

Again, if we're talking about the whole picture, it's pretty grim. We've not only drafted poorly, we've also dealt draft picks which turned out to be very valuable pieces for other teams, leaving us with zilch.

In fact, I was quite frustrated when we took Ed Davis over Bradley. Our scouts were very excited about Bradley's showing at our workouts, liked his defensive tenacity, and saw offensive upside. He dominated on-ball defense in the scrimmages. Why the hell didn't we take him? We had a huge need for a PG with upside, and he even plays combo-guard now for Boston and guards some of the top twos in the league.

When a guy like Ed Davis slides as much as he did (despite being projected as a top lottery pick), there must be a reason why. Even if he had a torn wrist or what not, if he's a very good prospect, someone will take a flier on him. I can't see his wrist being the only reason he dropped to 13. With no work outs to base that pick on, it was a risky take on our part. He definitely lacks some motor, seems to fade in and out during games (coasts from time to time on either end), doesn't have a plethora of post moves to go to, no jumpshot, and a small frame to boot.

Avery Bradley over Ed Davis? WHAT! Eric Bledsoe has had about 2 good games in his career. Which is about the same as Ben Uzoh. Patterson isn't better than Davis. You are really reaching. Derozan is probably a better shooting guard than Teague and Holiday are point guards. Lawson is probably a better pg than Demar is a sg.

[Anatomize]

The Raps have drafted well the last few years, so I'm not sure why this is still an issue. You need to let the Hoffa and Graham picks go dudes. That's ancient history.

DeRozan and Ed Davis haven't exactly shown much (Ed Davis much more so in his second year).. and both have in fact regressed this past season.

They're decent players given their pick range.. just nothing to be enamoured with. That being said, there were players picked after both DeRozan and Ed Davis who may have better careers moving forward (if not already).

DeRozan draft class: Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague

Ed Davis: Patrick Patterson (arguable), Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley (when playing starters minutes - very productive on both ends), Jordan Crawford (can light it up - but is a chucker).

Valanciunas remains to be seen. We think he'll be a stud, but nothing is guaranteed until you see him play.

Again, if we're talking about the whole picture, it's pretty grim. We've not only drafted poorly, we've also dealt draft picks which turned out to be very valuable pieces for other teams, leaving us with zilch.

In fact, I was quite frustrated when we took Ed Davis over Bradley. Our scouts were very excited about Bradley's showing at our workouts, liked his defensive tenacity, and saw offensive upside. He dominated on-ball defense in the scrimmages. Why the hell didn't we take him? We had a huge need for a PG with upside, and he even plays combo-guard now for Boston and guards some of the top twos in the league.

When a guy like Ed Davis slides as much as he did (despite being projected as a top lottery pick), there must be a reason why. Even if he had a torn wrist or what not, if he's a very good prospect, someone will take a flier on him. I can't see his wrist being the only reason he dropped to 13. With no work outs to base that pick on, it was a risky take on our part. He definitely lacks some motor, seems to fade in and out during games (coasts from time to time on either end), doesn't have a plethora of post moves to go to, no jumpshot, and a small frame to boot.

Avery Bradley over Ed Davis? WHAT! Eric Bledsoe has had about 2 good games in his career. Which is about the same as Ben Uzoh. Patterson isn't better than Davis. You are really reaching. Derozan is probably a better shooting guard than Teague and Holiday are point guards. Lawson is probably a better pg than Demar is a sg.

Eric Bledsoe is productive when starting, and I think his upside trumps many young players in the league. He averaged 9/4/6 as a starter in 25 games (his rookie year). Again, he's also a two way player.

Yes, Avery Bradley over Ed Davis. I'd take it any day, and I was adamant about it the day of the draft.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/ ... aLIM.ubwM6

Look at that last month...

15/2/1/1 on 52% FG/54% 3 point/78% FT.. people talk about Dragic's last month of the season (which was amazing), but no one talks about how productive Avery Bradley was once they inserted him as the starting SG (and backup PG minutes). He was also a shut down defender for the Celtics. Remember, the Celtics were .500 at the break and ended up with 20+ wins over .500 after the break (due in large part to inserting Bradley as a starter).

Lawson/Holiday probably? For young PGs they are far more productive than DeRozan and they both run point on winning teams with multiple ball handlers yet they put up great stats and are two way players (can't say the same for Derozan)

[Double Helix]

Damn DH, look at that wingspan..

Just turned 20 a month ago and his max vert reach is 11'8. That's the same as Andre Iguodala. That's .5 inches less than Blake Griffin. That's only an inch less than a guy who was largely drafted soley for his explosive athleticism which everybody expected would translate into NBA stardom in Demar Derozan. That's more vertical than Luol Deng. That's more vertical than JR Smith. That's more vertical than Spencer Hawes can reach as a relatively athletic C. That's more vertical than Eric Gordon, David Lee and Carmello Anthony.

Young, late bloomer with room to improve?
Ball handling?
Elite verticality?
3 point range?
Mid-range game?
Floaters in traffic?
Free throw shooting?
Movement without the ball?
Willingness to take the big shot?
Willingness to work with an alpha and fit into a winning team?
Ability to challenge shots?

Checkmarks on all of the above. He's a vastly superior offensive weapon to where Derozan was at the very same age and let's be real for a second. Versatile scoring is what the 2-guard spot should be all about. We have things a little skewed up here with Bargnani shooting long jumpers but there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a versatile SG that can shoot from all over. Derozan was hyped for dunk contests and "ball is life" mixtapes since high school. Lamb appeared out of nowhere and is suddenly known for versatile scoring and an arsenal of shots at a young age. I know which I'd rather have in a 19/20 year old shooting guard prospect. I like Derozan because we watched him grow and he's one of our boys now but I strongly believe that Lamb's a better prospect than where he was at the same age.

[Legal Non-Conforming]

My faith in the fans ability to assess talent was formed when they booed Damon Stoudamire as the first pick in the 1995 draft because the Raptors didn't take Ed O’Bannon. Go back to the pre-draft threads for 2011--half of the board wanted to draft Walker or Biyombo over Valanciunas. There were posters who dismissed him simply because he was "Euro". Of course, I'm not saying that "everyone did". But let's not pretend that RealGM posters have some sort of special insight, especially when it comes to character---we are working with a he$$ of a lot less information than NBA scouts and organizations. Maybe the concerns about Lamb's passivity are correct, but we don't know. On the other side, he's had some great games and big performances when it has mattered most. I'm all in favour of discussion, but let's not pretend we know more than we do.

I've seen the same thing happen every year for the last 15 years--fans dissect player's weaknesses to the point where everybody (except the guys beyond your teams reach) seems like "garbage". It happened to Rudy Gay, it happened to Valanciunas. If the rest of the world hadn't congratulated Colangelo on a brilliant pick, this board would still be trashing Valanciunas.

Not liking our picks is not only because of the players' weaknesses. Many people here liked the DeRozan pick and the Valanciunas pick as soon as they were made, so I think you're generalization is a tad inaccurrate (also saying that we only rely on outside information to bandwagon over our picks).

The biggest reason why fans of our team doubt our picks is due to a very very poor drafting history; this only makes people more sceptical about our next pick.

[BillyGM]

In celebration of Lamb coming to Toronto today...

The low dribble for a 6'6 guard


The shot


The coordination


The athleticism


The winner


The future home

This pictures excites but ain't convinced yet, if he is BPA let's pick him if not screw him.

[Undefeated]

decided to watch more Lamb film and caught a number of examples of ridiculously quick reaction-time which is not what you'd expect after hearing him speak. I'm talking about tap backs, floaters where he had to adjust in the air, shots where he caught the ball quickly and immediately had to extend fully not to get blocked. There's a lot of talk of how smooth he is with the ball and it's legit but he doesn't play in slow motion. He does seem to make pretty quick decisions on the court, unlike when answering questions.

That's what I've been saying all along. I just don't understand all the talk about Lamb having poor bball IQ when he has shown otherwise by making quick decisions on the move because his ability to read-and-react either by beating his defender to the rim for a rebound or to a spot on the floor for the catch-and-shoot or dives to the rim off of a curl are outstanding. It's as if he already knows where he wants to be before he even has the ball.

[Raptors Aiya]

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen
Lamb walks out of ACC practice court w/ Raptors trainer, curses, slaps wall.

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen
(See? He cares.)

Andrew Perucho ‏@hoyitsandrew
Thats that **** I DO like. #TeamRivers

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen
@hoyitsandrew Don't cheer for kids to get injured.

Andrew Perucho ‏@hoyitsandrew
@ekoreen Oh, he got injured? Thought he got outplayed. That's unfortunate.

@hoyitsandrew They're not even working out against each other. But yep: injury.

hope it wasn't serious, probably a muscle pull from the workouts. Seems like he's really trying to make an impression.

Will this hinder his stock or lower his ranking on BCs/Stefanski's ranking?

[JN]

If it's nothing serious I doubt it will hurt his stock (whatever it is in the eyes of BC). Lamb does not have a history of missing ganes.

[Meeks]

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen
Lamb walks out of ACC practice court w/ Raptors trainer, curses, slaps wall.

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen
(See? He cares.)

Andrew Perucho ‏@hoyitsandrew
Thats that **** I DO like. #TeamRivers

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen
@hoyitsandrew Don't cheer for kids to get injured.

Andrew Perucho ‏@hoyitsandrew
@ekoreen Oh, he got injured? Thought he got outplayed. That's unfortunate.

@hoyitsandrew They're not even working out against each other. But yep: injury.

hope it wasn't serious, probably a muscle pull from the workouts. Seems like he's really trying to make an impression.

Will this hinder his stock or lower his ranking on BCs/Stefanski's ranking?

And here I though he walked out on the workout!!! PHEW!!!

[Marlo Stanfield]

We hurt him, we owe him so LETS DRAFT HIM!

[fredericklove]

Damn DH, look at that wingspan..

Just turned 20 a month ago and his max vert reach is 11'8. That's the same as Andre Iguodala. That's .5 inches less than Blake Griffin. That's only an inch less than a guy who was largely drafted soley for his explosive athleticism which everybody expected would translate into NBA stardom in Demar Derozan. That's more vertical than Luol Deng. That's more vertical than JR Smith. That's more vertical than Spencer Hawes can reach as a relatively athletic C. That's more vertical than Eric Gordon, David Lee and Carmello Anthony.

Young, late bloomer with room to improve?
Ball handling?
Elite verticality?
3 point range?
Mid-range game?
Floaters in traffic?
Free throw shooting?
Movement without the ball?
Willingness to take the big shot?
Willingness to work with an alpha and fit into a winning team?
Ability to challenge shots?

Checkmarks on all of the above. He's a vastly superior offensive weapon to where Derozan was at the very same age and let's be real for a second. Versatile scoring is what the 2-guard spot should be all about. We have things a little skewed up here with Bargnani shooting long jumpers but there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a versatile SG that can shoot from all over. Derozan was hyped for dunk contests and "ball is life" mixtapes since high school. Lamb appeared out of nowhere and is suddenly known for versatile scoring and an arsenal of shots at a young age. I know which I'd rather have in a 19/20 year old shooting guard prospect. I like Derozan because we watched him grow and he's one of our boys now but I strongly believe that Lamb's a better prospect than where he was at the same age.

+1

[fredericklove]

decided to watch more Lamb film and caught a number of examples of ridiculously quick reaction-time which is not what you'd expect after hearing him speak. I'm talking about tap backs, floaters where he had to adjust in the air, shots where he caught the ball quickly and immediately had to extend fully not to get blocked. There's a lot of talk of how smooth he is with the ball and it's legit but he doesn't play in slow motion. He does seem to make pretty quick decisions on the court, unlike when answering questions.

That's what I've been saying all along. I just don't understand all the talk about Lamb having poor bball IQ when he has shown otherwise by making quick decisions on the move because his ability to read-and-react either by beating his defender to the rim for a rebound or to a spot on the floor for the catch-and-shoot or dives to the rim off of a curl are outstanding. It's as if he already knows where he wants to be before he even has the ball.

People assume his slowness to interview questions is the main reason believing he has poor BBIQ, SMH at the lack of basketball knowledge these posters have. When he plays, and all of us that watches during game thread were impressed by his high IQ and the ability to score from vast offensive repertoire. Its what he does on the court that matters.

[Marlo Stanfield]

I'm surprised so many people soured on him so fast, and all because of sleepy eyes. Look at the production, not the numbers. And those same people are jizzing themselves thinking about Damien Lillard who will be an average guard at best. Raps fans, gotta love 'em...