Shams: Raps acquire Ingram for Brown + Olynyk + IND 1st

[rapsincr]

For the ones that hate this trade

This is the reason why.

Read on Twitter

?s=46

what about the other playoff series where he avg 27 points on good averages?

and was a bigger sample

[treerollins]

healthy bruce brown was really helping us win and derailing the tank, and i couldn’t envision him resigning here so that’s ok
kelly was also kind of helping us win but he wasn’t starter calibre and could be targeted on defence s bit too easily
indy 1st is whatever, wasn’t gonna be a lotto pick

ingram is a cool addition but i worry about our team defence. i’d want to start ochai and jak personally. a lot rides on the extension value though i don’t expect we get much of a discount, we need a backup big again and imo we need to think about dealing one of rj/gradey. maybe we can channel the luka deal and do scottie, jakobe and a 2028 first for jokic next year lol.

[RaptorLakerJay]

Curious to see if Darko can manage to unlock a different part of Ingram's game like he did with RJ Barrett. That's really the biggest thing for me. If he can, the upside could be huge.

[mtcan]

How does Kelly get dealt again today if the trade deadline just closed?

Deal's not finalized yet. There is opportunity to loop other teams in if the Pelicans are rerouting Kelly and Bruce. Deadline is at 3PM today.

Even if we finalize the trade, Kelly can still be traded seperately, but can't be combined with anyone else.

Utah recently traded PJ Tucker after acquiring him last week from the Clippers

I think this will be a 3 or 4 team trade when it is all finalized with either or both of Bruce and Kelly being rerouted elsewhere. It is easier to move contracts around prior to finalizing the original Toronto/NO deal.

[douggood]

pending a physical, i would not be surprised if an extension is announced soon

[Ramako]

In isolation trade value is fine if they can get him signed for a reasonable contract (hopefully 35 but I am probably dreaming).

Bigger problem is I don’t see how he fits. We have too many guys who can’t shoot 3s so the spacing will be bad. And we have several guys that you can attack on d.

But most importantly we still lack a true number 1 guy. Maybe you can use him in a package to get a 1? But I just don’t see how this team becomes a championship caliber team the way it is currently constructed.

Agreed. I think it's still too early in the process to worry about fit. I see this as an asset building move. You have a bunch of guys like Ingram, RJ and IQ on the team, plus picks and prospects... that gives you the capital you need to make a big splash in the future if you see an opportunity to grab that true number 1 guy. We know Masai won't be afraid to pull the trigger.

[KillaSham23]

Hopefully there's an extension with this otherwise we threw away a first

[brownbobcat]

About 16 million under the tax if he signs @40 million given that Boucher and Mitchell walk. That's 12 players, if they get the first overall pick they may have to shed a few million.

$137.3M - Currently guaranteed (9 players)
$40M - Ingram
$2M - Battie (RFA)
$8-13M - FRP

That already gets them to 12 players and $187-192M depending on the pick slot - remember that rookies almost always sign for 20% above the scale. Odd man out could be Agbaji

I'm guessing his first year salary starts at $35m.

Year 2 $37,800,000
Year 3 $40,824,000
Year 4 $44,089,920
PO Year 5 $47,617,113

Total $205,331,033

Pretty vomit-inducing, but I think the 5yr deal is likely advantage they can use to get BI to a lower number.

[Lord_Zedd]

has anyone seen an updated salary cap projection for next year based on this trade? Assuming BI gets $40M per, how's our books look?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/toronto-raptors/cap/_/year/2025

I also looked at the Hoopshype data because I like how it's organized with options and totals. And so if my understanding is correct, the Raps will have $137,926,309 committed next year if they let Boucher and Mitchell go without bringing in another salary.

The luxury tax for next season is expected to be about $188.4 million. That leaves about $50.5 room under the tax.

Let's say they luck out and get the 3rd overall pick in the draft. That's another $8.4 million leaving about $42 million.

They'd need at least $4-5 million for a 2nd round pick and other minimum contracts to fill out the roster.

So really, they need to get Ingram signed for about $35-36 million to make sure they're not into the tax if they don't want to be in the position where they need to off-load someone else this summer.

Does that make sense? Is my math mathing? Most importantly, is this doable as a deal with Ingram?

Yep your math is mathing. Kelly O and our 2026 IND 1st had to be sacrificed to fit Ingram's next contract and our top 5 pick.

Barring trades or re-signing Boucher/Mitchell to a super cheap contracts, the last two roster slots are most likely min salary filler next season. Would not surprise me if our 2nd round pick this year is a draft and stash overseas

[Duffman100]

Hopefully there's an extension with this otherwise we threw away a first

They're signing him, I wouldn't worry about that.

[douggood]

$137.3M - Currently guaranteed (9 players)
$40M - Ingram
$2M - Battie (RFA)
$8-13M - FRP

That already gets them to 12 players and $187-192M depending on the pick slot - remember that rookies almost always sign for 20% above the scale. Odd man out could be Agbaji

I'm guessing his first year salary starts at $35m.

Year 2 $37,800,000
Year 3 $40,824,000
Year 4 $44,089,920
PO Year 5 $47,617,113

Total $205,331,033

Pretty vomit-inducing, but I think the 5yr deal is likely advantage they can use to get BI to a lower number.

this is starting at 22.5 of the cap, near the end under 20% of cap.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Curious to see if Darko can manage to unlock a different part of Ingram's game like he did with RJ Barrett. That's really the biggest thing for me. If he can, the upside could be huge.

He’s no longer the primary offense option. Maybe he could focus on defense more now

[Tha Cynic]

Brandon Ingram has a pretty similar impact to Jaylen Brown and Pascal Siakam and we got him for a first round pick.

I do think he can be better if we have him focus on certain areas in his game. He’s a good enough 3 point shooter where he should probably be taking more 3s and less mid range jumpers. He has had a few seasons where he shot 6 3s a game and he shot 39%, 38% and 37% in those seasons (last being this season so far). He is a very good passer which isn’t talked about much.

I think he will actually look better in our offense where we try not to stop the ball, so we’ll see. I do agree with those who say Barrett probably needs to be moved sometime in the near future as we do need another defender in the starting lineup. Maybe we get Harper and this is solved.

[Jadoogar]

this place really loves overrating mid FRPs. Massive overpay? Ingram was gotten quite cheap, but we need to see if we re-sign him and for how much

the issue isn't the pick itself. Like the poeltl trade, the value is fair in a vacuum.
The issue is direction. Like the poeltl trade, we are going to be forced to re-sign Ingram. The team has been a complete disaster and the opportunity to tank in a loaded draft is right there for the taking (jst like the Wemby draft) but instead we are choosing to purse the play-in once again.

Just feels like management continues to take the wrong direction. Tickets sales must have been dropping.

[Rapsobsessed7]

First post in i don't know how long but wanted to jump on to say i like this trade. I don't understand the skepticism from some posters on it. The team being as bad as it has been is largely due to injuries more than the actual talent on the roster. I really don't believe the trade alters our tank in the slightest, regardless of Ingram or not, the chances of the team bottoming out are slim. So you stay in the 6-12 range, add a all-star level player and look to bounce back next year. Acquisition cost is low, you have to believe that a extension has already been discussed/agreed to. I really like the move, fit is a bit questionable potentially but you are adding talent at a very low cost. The net result of the Siakam trade looks much better now on paper and i think theres more to come (Boucher/Mitchell).

[Gavin_TDThree]

Hopefully there's an extension with this otherwise we threw away a first

They're signing him, I wouldn't worry about that.

agreed. I'd have to think that a condition of the trade was being able to talk to Ingrams agent about an extension number

[MiamiSPX]

As I have mentioned before several times, the Pelicans are the team I follow the most closely after the Raps. Really not sure why, I can't stand Zion, but I just have a soft spot for that team (and the Pistons lol). Also love their broadcast duo and how candid and excited Daniels gets....

So I've watched Ingram quite a bit, and he is a walking bucket when he's on a middie heater. By all accounts also a solid dude and terrific teammate, which is in line with Masai only chasing high character guys.

Of course there is the very real concern about his fragility, but that is also why he was available, and for not that high of a cost. I really like this trade, especially when you accept the reality that the Raps were not going to, rightly or wrongly, tank again next year. A lottery pick is already secured. That addition, plus BI and IQ, who can hopefully both stay healthy, and that is legitimate talent added to this group.

Anyone thinking this is a push for the play-in missed that SL we trotted out last night against one of the top teams in the league. ONE legitimate starter, along with 2 rookies, one 2nd year player, and a bench vet. I understand 3 of our starters were out, but there is no way those guys should have been starting over Brown, Boucher and Davion if the goal was to try and win.

Also, say what we want about Klutch but Masai and Rich Paul have a very good relationship, friends even. The framework of a contract is absolutely worked out already. If even Lewenberg was fed this information, then it is all but done.

Lastly, Ingram has not even started on-court activities to return. There are 31 games left, and I am guessing he maybe doesn't even play 15 of them. He doesn't need to show anything for FA because as stated above, any reasonable person can assume the contract is already agreed upon. They'll pay him and sit him as long as they can.

[ishoy123]

Why is our local beat writer acting like a realgm poster?

[sbsat]

this place really loves overrating mid FRPs. Massive overpay? Ingram was gotten quite cheap, but we need to see if we re-sign him and for how much

the issue isn't the pick itself. Like the poeltl trade, the value is fair in a vacuum.
The issue is direction. Like the poeltl trade, we are going to be forced to re-sign Ingram. The team has been a complete disaster and the opportunity to tank in a loaded draft is right there for the taking (jst like the Wemby draft) but instead we are choosing to purse the play-in once again.

Just feels like management continues to take the wrong direction. Tickets sales must have been dropping.

The tank continues this year, I don't think Ingram affects this year.

[Jadoogar]

this place really loves overrating mid FRPs. Massive overpay? Ingram was gotten quite cheap, but we need to see if we re-sign him and for how much

the issue isn't the pick itself. Like the poeltl trade, the value is fair in a vacuum.
The issue is direction. Like the poeltl trade, we are going to be forced to re-sign Ingram. The team has been a complete disaster and the opportunity to tank in a loaded draft is right there for the taking (jst like the Wemby draft) but instead we are choosing to purse the play-in once again.

Just feels like management continues to take the wrong direction. Tickets sales must have been dropping.

The tank continues this year, I don't think Ingram affects this year.

why do say that? The team is already starting to win more games as they got healthier. Ingram is obviously a talent upgrade over Brown/Kelly.

If we're going to sit Ingram the rest of the season, are we going to be comfortable paying Ingram a huge contract?