Summer Runs and Random Player Sightings

[Spates]

In 2021-22, Luke Kennard got 6th man of the Year votes while playing Norm’s role. Other players to receive votes the past couple of years include Harrell, Portis, Oubre, Clarke, Tyus. Not exactly elite company.

Would a contender take Norm over GTJ? A team already dumped Norm for expiring contracts and Norm was being actively shopped at the deadline just 6 months ago. Doesn’t seem like any team wants to actually keep Norm.

I like Norm and I am thrilled he’s been able to carve out a career in this league. He’s worked extremely hard. But he has some serious flaws that he’s been unable to fix. GTJ just so happens to have those same flaws. GTJ might have time to fix them though. If not, we just replaced Norm with another Norm.

You raised an interesting side point about the quality of recent 6th man contenders. I looked up the list of the award winners and first 10 years or so, starting in 82, were either HOF players or other truly great players. More recently Ginobili was another great player in the role. But of late there's been a number of fairly pedestrian talents like Kennard.

Honest question, has Norm ever started for a playoff team? GTJ started 69 of 70 games for a team that won 48 games in 2021-22. Most games Norm started was in Tampa and our team was awful. The following year Portland was terrible and he got traded. Last year, Norm barely started any games and the team hovered around .500 all year.

Gerald Henderson has started for a playoff team...

[ItsDanger]

Norm is a career 43.8% corner 3 pt shooter. His skillset actually fits our roster better on offense. Trent is your typical low ceiling guy that fools many. He's the same player as he was at Duke. Avoids physical contact, poor handles.

[Boogie!]

It's funny how this people keeps finding ways to **** on norms career elite offensive production. Like people just can't admit norm Is a good offensive player. How are you gonna keep finding ways to discount someone that shoots Close to 50/40. And then they wanna keep saying that chucker trent is better or has more potential.

Listen trent is here now and I want him to do well. Really, I'm over the fact the trade happened, and am hoping trent can turn it up a notch. Genuinely I want his numbers to go up, to be more efficient. But objectively, I understand his skillset. I mean I've watched and observed him play every night. And it's quite obvious that he's lacking things like athleticism, iq, explosiveness, handles,finishing ability and that those things will forever hold back. For whatever reason people don't seem to understand these things when making assessments or evaluations. There's a reason certain players have more potential than others and it's not just because of age.

[sbsat]

It's funny how this people keeps finding ways to **** on norms career elite offensive production. Like people just can't admit norm Is a good offensive player. How are you gonna keep finding ways to discount someone that shoots Close to 50/40. And then they wanna keep saying that chucker trent is better or has more potential.

Listen trent is here now and I want him to do well. Really, I'm over the fact the trade happened, and am hoping trent can turn it up a notch. Genuinely I want his numbers to go up, to be more efficient. But objectively, I understand his skillset. I mean I've watched and observed him play every night. And it's quite obvious that he's lacking things like athleticism, iq, explosiveness, handles,finishing ability and that those things will forever hold back. For whatever reason people don't seem to understand these things when making assessments or evaluations. There's a reason certain players have more potential than others and it's not just because of age.

No one is discounting his offensive prowess. Stop being triggered for no reason. Hes a **** defensive player thats the only criticism.

And the funny thing is i was on this very board defending norm when everyone wanted to trade him for a sack of potatoes.

[ItsDanger]

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[hyper316]

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I love norm, but he wasn't gonna fix last year's woes. That core wasn't the main pieces in championship year

[raptor jesus]

Norm was a rather inconsistent player imo. During the title and bubble seasons he'd have stretches where he looked like he deserved more usage; but then he'd balance those stretches out with equally long disappearing acts. His playoff performances were always up-and-down as well. I love Norm, but I remember being leery of giving him a sizable raise given his inconsistent play at the time. I think it was reasonable to trade him - that said, I also remember being underwhelmed by the return (Trent's grown on me, but I wasn't a fan at the time).

[Los_29]

It's funny how this people keeps finding ways to **** on norms career elite offensive production. Like people just can't admit norm Is a good offensive player. How are you gonna keep finding ways to discount someone that shoots Close to 50/40. And then they wanna keep saying that chucker trent is better or has more potential.

Listen trent is here now and I want him to do well. Really, I'm over the fact the trade happened, and am hoping trent can turn it up a notch. Genuinely I want his numbers to go up, to be more efficient. But objectively, I understand his skillset. I mean I've watched and observed him play every night. And it's quite obvious that he's lacking things like athleticism, iq, explosiveness, handles,finishing ability and that those things will forever hold back. For whatever reason people don't seem to understand these things when making assessments or evaluations. There's a reason certain players have more potential than others and it's not just because of age.

No one is discounting his offensive prowess. Stop being triggered for no reason. Hes a **** defensive player thats the only criticism.

And the funny thing is i was on this very board defending norm when everyone wanted to trade him for a sack of potatoes.

I was defending him as well. The same people defending Norm in this thread are also the same ones who criticized him and wanted Masai to trade him for a poo poo platter.

People need to start being objective on here as opposed to always trying to go against Masai. It’s a really bad look when you look through these posters post histories and see how much their views have changed.

[Los_29]

You raised an interesting side point about the quality of recent 6th man contenders. I looked up the list of the award winners and first 10 years or so, starting in 82, were either HOF players or other truly great players. More recently Ginobili was another great player in the role. But of late there's been a number of fairly pedestrian talents like Kennard.

Honest question, has Norm ever started for a playoff team? GTJ started 69 of 70 games for a team that won 48 games in 2021-22. Most games Norm started was in Tampa and our team was awful. The following year Portland was terrible and he got traded. Last year, Norm barely started any games and the team hovered around .500 all year.

Gerald Henderson has started for a playoff team...

And he wouldn’t even be considered anywhere close to the worst. I was more thinking along the lines of players comparable to Norm. He’s never been a part of a starting lineup that won 48 games. GTJ has. It’s about as silly as referring to Norm getting 3rd place votes for 6MOTY. Lol.

[Got Nuffin]

Meh GTJ or Powell.. does it really matter? What difference would either of them have made to our fortunes? Powell has no trade value and GTJ has not improved.

Powell is the better player if you can handle the tunnel vision, but on this team I'd take GTJ for the chance he improves and because we're likely trying to get rid of our 30 yr old vets anyway (and Powell has no trade value).

[WuTang_CMB]

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[WaltFrazier]

Meh GTJ or Powell.. does it really matter? What difference would either of them have made to our fortunes? Powell has no trade value and GTJ has not improved.

Powell is the better player if you can handle the tunnel vision, but on this team I'd take GTJ for the chance he improves and because we're likely trying to get rid of our 30 yr old vets anyway (and Powell has no trade value).

If Kawhi and PG magically are healthy this year and the Clippers are the contender they are capable of being, then Norm is better for them than Gary would be. But sure, at this age if Gary does improve his all round game then he is better for the Raptors over the next few years. Hopefully.

[WaltFrazier]

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I'd love to have seen if that happened. Nothing to do with Gary. Just keep Norm, get Delon and Jakob back, see how far the old bench mob could go. I know there are arguments against it but would have been fun

[canada_dry]

I side Powell over gtj. More refined. Good shot chart. Good shot making. Really good in the paint finishing and attacking close outs. Better at what we need at the position too,But gtj is younger and has more potential. Wasnt a bad trade at the time and still isnt now.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Boogie!]

It's funny how this people keeps finding ways to **** on norms career elite offensive production. Like people just can't admit norm Is a good offensive player. How are you gonna keep finding ways to discount someone that shoots Close to 50/40. And then they wanna keep saying that chucker trent is better or has more potential.

Listen trent is here now and I want him to do well. Really, I'm over the fact the trade happened, and am hoping trent can turn it up a notch. Genuinely I want his numbers to go up, to be more efficient. But objectively, I understand his skillset. I mean I've watched and observed him play every night. And it's quite obvious that he's lacking things like athleticism, iq, explosiveness, handles,finishing ability and that those things will forever hold back. For whatever reason people don't seem to understand these things when making assessments or evaluations. There's a reason certain players have more potential than others and it's not just because of age.

No one is discounting his offensive prowess. Stop being triggered for no reason. Hes a **** defensive player thats the only criticism.

And the funny thing is i was on this very board defending norm when everyone wanted to trade him for a sack of potatoes.

Stop projecting no one is getting defensive. The facts are norm is an elite scorer in terms of efficiency and is more talented with a more dynamic skillset than trent.

I'm gonna use a more exaggerated comparison to highlight my point, but its like if someone were to keep trying to prove scottie barnes could eventually be better than lebron because he's younger. I would like scottie to turn into a star, but its quite obvious lebron has so much more in terms of athleticism, ball handling, speed, his jumper, first step, etc, that no matter what scottie does he will never come close. That's not to say I'm not rooting for scottie, I have been one of his biggest defenders and supporters, but I can also objectively understand what his limitations are and that he has to do things differently than lebron in terms of his playstyle in order for him to be great and reach his potential. But I'm not gonna be mad that someone says he can't be lebron. Of course he can't, he's lacking in the things that allows lebron to he who he is.

[Boogie!]

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I don't think that team was ever gonna contend, but I do agree in the sense that keeping them together would've been good for chemistry and probably have resulted in a more fun team to watch. If we look at the timeline from then to now, with fvv leaving and us obviously having to do a pseudo retool, keeping norm for that duration would've probably resulted in slightly more success.

Management didn't really know what they were doing at that point and did a really half assed retool on the fly because they didn't wanna pay norm, who ended up getting the same amount of money as trent anyway.

At the end of the day though, we weren't contending so I guess in the grand scheme it doesn't matter. Plus norm is injured a lot, and Gary can grow with Barnes trajectory.

[sbsat]

It's funny how this people keeps finding ways to **** on norms career elite offensive production. Like people just can't admit norm Is a good offensive player. How are you gonna keep finding ways to discount someone that shoots Close to 50/40. And then they wanna keep saying that chucker trent is better or has more potential.

Listen trent is here now and I want him to do well. Really, I'm over the fact the trade happened, and am hoping trent can turn it up a notch. Genuinely I want his numbers to go up, to be more efficient. But objectively, I understand his skillset. I mean I've watched and observed him play every night. And it's quite obvious that he's lacking things like athleticism, iq, explosiveness, handles,finishing ability and that those things will forever hold back. For whatever reason people don't seem to understand these things when making assessments or evaluations. There's a reason certain players have more potential than others and it's not just because of age.

No one is discounting his offensive prowess. Stop being triggered for no reason. Hes a **** defensive player thats the only criticism.

And the funny thing is i was on this very board defending norm when everyone wanted to trade him for a sack of potatoes.

Stop projecting no one is getting defensive. The facts are norm is an elite scorer in terms of efficiency and is more talented with a more dynamic skillset than trent.

I'm gonna use a more exaggerated comparison to highlight my point, but its like if someone were to keep trying to prove scottie barnes could eventually be better than lebron because he's younger. I would like scottie to turn into a star, but its quite obvious lebron has so much more in terms of athleticism, ball handling, speed, his jumper, first step, etc, that no matter what scottie does he will never come close. That's not to say I'm not rooting for scottie, I have been one of his biggest defenders and supporters, but I can also objectively understand what his limitations are and that he has to do things differently than lebron in terms of his playstyle in order for him to be great and reach his potential. But I'm not gonna be mad that someone says he can't be lebron. Of course he can't, he's lacking in the things that allows lebron to he who he is.

1. Again no one os arguing that norm is not a more dynamic scorer than trent but the fact is basketball is a two way sport.
2. Using exaggerated arguments to prove a point is rarely effective and that rings true here with your example
3. I said you were triggered, not defensive

[Boogie!]

No one is discounting his offensive prowess. Stop being triggered for no reason. Hes a **** defensive player thats the only criticism.

And the funny thing is i was on this very board defending norm when everyone wanted to trade him for a sack of potatoes.

Stop projecting no one is getting defensive. The facts are norm is an elite scorer in terms of efficiency and is more talented with a more dynamic skillset than trent.

I'm gonna use a more exaggerated comparison to highlight my point, but its like if someone were to keep trying to prove scottie barnes could eventually be better than lebron because he's younger. I would like scottie to turn into a star, but its quite obvious lebron has so much more in terms of athleticism, ball handling, speed, his jumper, first step, etc, that no matter what scottie does he will never come close. That's not to say I'm not rooting for scottie, I have been one of his biggest defenders and supporters, but I can also objectively understand what his limitations are and that he has to do things differently than lebron in terms of his playstyle in order for him to be great and reach his potential. But I'm not gonna be mad that someone says he can't be lebron. Of course he can't, he's lacking in the things that allows lebron to he who he is.

1. Again no one os arguing that norm is not a more dynamic scorer than trent but the fact is basketball is a two way sport.
2. Using exaggerated arguments to prove a point is rarely effective and that rings true here with your example
3. I said you were triggered, not defensive

No one is triggered. Again stop projecting. You wanna see triggered, look up every discussion that involves he shall not be named. The fact that you can't even understand or won't understand the analogy I was using shows you're choosing to be ignorant and unwilling to accept my argument for what it is. See the post I just wrote before yours.

Norm is better than trent. It just is what it is. Not sure why people need to keep trying to prove otherwise. Was it a fair trade? Sure. Considering all the fleecings that happen for star players it's about as even as it gets in terms of trade value. But like I said keeping norm probably gets probably another playoff season... and the chemistry was already there, there would've been no weird tension with norm, fvv and siakam because they all came up together, and all were rooting for each other so that chemistry could've allowed all of them to succeed together.

That being said the core was flawed to begin with because no true star, so it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

[sbsat]

Stop projecting no one is getting defensive. The facts are norm is an elite scorer in terms of efficiency and is more talented with a more dynamic skillset than trent.

I'm gonna use a more exaggerated comparison to highlight my point, but its like if someone were to keep trying to prove scottie barnes could eventually be better than lebron because he's younger. I would like scottie to turn into a star, but its quite obvious lebron has so much more in terms of athleticism, ball handling, speed, his jumper, first step, etc, that no matter what scottie does he will never come close. That's not to say I'm not rooting for scottie, I have been one of his biggest defenders and supporters, but I can also objectively understand what his limitations are and that he has to do things differently than lebron in terms of his playstyle in order for him to be great and reach his potential. But I'm not gonna be mad that someone says he can't be lebron. Of course he can't, he's lacking in the things that allows lebron to he who he is.

1. Again no one os arguing that norm is not a more dynamic scorer than trent but the fact is basketball is a two way sport.
2. Using exaggerated arguments to prove a point is rarely effective and that rings true here with your example
3. I said you were triggered, not defensive

No one is triggered. Again stop projecting. You wanna see triggered, look up every discussion that involves he shall not be named. The fact that you can't even understand or won't understand the analogy I was using shows you're choosing to be ignorant and unwilling to accept my argument for what it is. See the post I just wrote before yours.

Norm is better than trent. It just is what it is. Not sure why people need to keep trying to prove otherwise. Was it a fair trade? Sure. Considering all the fleecings that happen for star players it's about as even as it gets in terms of trade value. But like I said keeping norm probably gets probably another playoff season... and the chemistry was already there, there would've been no weird tension with norm, fvv and siakam because they all came up together, and all were rooting for each other so that chemistry could've allowed all of them to succeed together.

That being said the core was flawed to begin with because no true star, so it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

So you agree it's a fair trade? That was my only original point. You just like debating sh*t for apparently no reason. At no point did i say trent was better. Do better reading peoples posts.

[Boogie!]

1. Again no one os arguing that norm is not a more dynamic scorer than trent but the fact is basketball is a two way sport.
2. Using exaggerated arguments to prove a point is rarely effective and that rings true here with your example
3. I said you were triggered, not defensive

No one is triggered. Again stop projecting. You wanna see triggered, look up every discussion that involves he shall not be named. The fact that you can't even understand or won't understand the analogy I was using shows you're choosing to be ignorant and unwilling to accept my argument for what it is. See the post I just wrote before yours.

Norm is better than trent. It just is what it is. Not sure why people need to keep trying to prove otherwise. Was it a fair trade? Sure. Considering all the fleecings that happen for star players it's about as even as it gets in terms of trade value. But like I said keeping norm probably gets probably another playoff season... and the chemistry was already there, there would've been no weird tension with norm, fvv and siakam because they all came up together, and all were rooting for each other so that chemistry could've allowed all of them to succeed together.

That being said the core was flawed to begin with because no true star, so it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

So you agree it's a fair trade? That was my only original point. You just like debating sh*t for apparently no reason. At no point did i say trent was better. Do better reading peoples posts.

Like I said, you're the one that sounds triggered. You realize you're not the only one posting in this thread about norm right and that other people have said other things. Read the original post you replied to and stop being so upset. If you really understood what I was writing and understood the point I was trying to make there would be no reason for you to even post.

Don't say no one is discounting norms skills when certain people in this thread have already done so. And a bunch of other people have posted in terms of piinting out reasons as to why norm is better than gtj so clearly there's a reason this is being discussed. Again of course as with most arguments this is about me and not about the argument itself since you failed to address any of those other posts.