2023 Draft Discussion Part 5

[grant101]

Guy looks 30 already

Watch on YouTube

This kid is gonna be a star. It's a pipe dream, but I'd be on the phone with Portland and Charlotte daily to try to make something work.

[PhilBlackson]

If OKC takes Bilal then I hope we draft Sidy.

I just really, really like his size, ballhandling and feel for the game. If a team gives him enough opportunity I think he has top 10 talent in him and I said it when he had that month & a half where Scoot was struggling with injury, that suddenly his numbers exploded when he was allowed to play more on ball & was basically averaging 20+ppg night in and night out.

It's funny because I liked him for our pick before the college season started and somehow always end up coming back to him as our pick (as others move up past him lol ie/ Hendricks, Bilal). Some of you can flame if you want but I genuinely don't see what makes Anthony Black THAT much better of a prospect, I actually like the look of Sidy's scoring arsenal more than Black's if I'm being honest.

[Psubs]

If OKC takes Bilal then I hope we draft Sidy.

I just really, really like his size, ballhandling and feel for the game. If a team gives him enough opportunity I think he has top 10 talent in him and I said it when he had that month & a half where Scoot was struggling with injury, that suddenly his numbers exploded when he was allowed to play more on ball & was basically averaging 20+ppg night in and night out.

It's funny because I liked him for our pick before the college season started and somehow always end up coming back to him as our pick (as others move up past him lol ie/ Hendricks, Bilal). Some of you can flame if you want but I genuinely don't see what makes Anthony Black THAT much better of a prospect, I actually like the look of Sidy's scoring arsenal more than Black's if I'm being honest.

Yup! You can see he's like OG in the halfcourt with Barnes' passing!

Has anyone on any level made so many spin moves and behind the back passes, all of which were needed and not to show up an opponent? So many dunks in the halfcourt offense, you'd think he was a 6'8+ player.

[PhilBlackson]

If OKC takes Bilal then I hope we draft Sidy.

I just really, really like his size, ballhandling and feel for the game. If a team gives him enough opportunity I think he has top 10 talent in him and I said it when he had that month & a half where Scoot was struggling with injury, that suddenly his numbers exploded when he was allowed to play more on ball & was basically averaging 20+ppg night in and night out.

It's funny because I liked him for our pick before the college season started and somehow always end up coming back to him as our pick (as others move up past him lol ie/ Hendricks, Bilal). Some of you can flame if you want but I genuinely don't see what makes Anthony Black THAT much better of a prospect, I actually like the look of Sidy's scoring arsenal more than Black's if I'm being honest.

Yup! You can see he's like OG in the halfcourt with Barnes' passing!

Has anyone on any level made so many spin moves and behind the back passes, all of which were needed and not to show up an opponent? So many dunks in the halfcourt offense, you'd think he was a 6'8+ player.

Every time I go back and watch more footage of him (literally), I find myself thinking why isn't this kid getting more buzz?! He just has a great feel for the game, plays very under control with the ball in his hand, seems to know how to read a defence VERY well and after a couple of months of a rough start to the season (*ahem Scottie did too lol), he really came on down the stretch. His shooting just got better and better after a dismal start. I remember in that month span some podcast mentioned he was shooting something like 37+% or something from 3 down the stretch and his shot mechanics genuinely were looking pretty good to me.

Obviously not incredible number but if he can shoot anywhere above 35% down the line (I don't see why not when we've improved MUCH worse shooters and his mechanics don't look bad), he can be an absolute stud imo and I'm NOT saying his GAME is Jimmy but his FRAME is. He's so STRONG, if people liked Daniels last year, I really don't get why they don't like Sidy who's scoring actually looks better imo than DD's did pre-draft & again I'm not seeing what Black does that makes him that much better honestly.

I know the IDEAL situation is to leave this draft with a great shooting/scoring wing and quite frankly I don't know if I see that in our range. Keyont is a MAAAAYBE for me because he has every damn trick in the bag but of course the fact his shooting numbers weren't great (possibly due to the ankle problems), I'm just not fully confident but he'd be my back up pick and Bufkin to me looks like a pro but not a star. So I don't see a potential star shooting/scoring wing then I'm taking BPA and to me that looks like Sidy and I think he could be developed to score more along the lines of someone like Jalen Williams but perhaps is a bit more pass oriented which isn't the worst thing considering even with Scottie, we still found there wasn't enough movement in the offence and I just think worst case we'd develop him into a helluva player that be the next guy to become one those "OG, Pascal" type of wings that every team wants in a few years from now but that's just me (and prob you lol because I know you've been on the Sid Wagon too).

[Kevin Willis]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/draft-combine-measurements-who-are-the-2023-prospects-most-comparable-to/

[PhilBlackson]

Even though the word is OKC wants Bilal, just random thought because everyone was trying to figure out who is he most physically like. Most guessed Mikal (imo too skinny when comparing around the same age, not as athletic) and same for young TMac who was also more explosive. It’s going to show my age and some of you will know the name but not really even remember much of his game or frame lol but just physically Coulibaly reminds me of Clyde Drexler in terms of his length & frame. I won’t say he has the athleticism at the level of the Glide’s but not too far off & that would be the closest in physical stature I can think of.

[ArthurVandelay]

Back issues are a stay away, especially for guards.

It could be he has never had a proper training or trainers, i.e. proper warm ups, cool downs combined. Could just have tight muscles from years of going all out without proper care and training. Muscles could be tight from this, then Kentucky gets him in the weight room doing Olympic lifts for the first time and his back really tightens up.

I really have no clue. This is a long way of saying if there is nothing structurally wrong with Wallace's back, I would select him and not think twice. Get him doing some yoga as part of his training with proper warm ups/cool downs and he should be good to go after a few months.

[Mark_83]

Joh Hollinger's Athletics article ranks the top 20 players in the draft:

T1
1. Wemby

T2
2. Scoot
3. Cam Whitmore
4. Brandon Miller
5. Anthony Black
Black reminds me of Jason Kidd at times, a big, smart, defensively active guard who impacts winning in so many other areas that the lack of a jump shot becomes secondary. Black is also among the younger players in this cohort, with an early 2004 birthdate, and thus time is on his side when it comes to finding his stroke.

T3
6. Amen
Overtime Elite played one real game against another professional team, versus the Adelaide 36ers of the Australian NBL in October. They lost, but Amen was the best player on the floor with 17 points, eight rebounds and five assists.

Fortunately, the eye test makes it easy to take the plunge here. Amen is 6-7, can handle the ball, jumps out of the gym and sees the floor. This is the exact thing every team in the league is moving heaven and earth to acquire: elite athletes with size who can handle and pass.
7. Ausar

T4
8. Lively
9. Hendricks
10. Bufkin
11. Dick
12. Jarace Walker
13. Cason Wallace
The issue with Wallace — one that scouts related to me as well — is what his medical report from the NBA Draft Combine will say. Wallace was impacted by several injuries this past season, including a back injury that you don’t usually see with 19-year-olds; at virtually any point in the season, you can see him wrapped up like a mummy while he takes the court.

His defensive clips, in particular, get notably worse as the season goes on, and he started to look very stiff by the end.

14. Dariq Whitehead
15. Noah Clowney

T5
16. Jaime Jaquez
17. Bilal
18. Sasser
19. Leonard Miller
20. Hawkins

Sleepers:
Trey Alexander
Podz

https://theathletic.com/4520965/2023/05/16/nba-draft-2023-hollinger-top-20-prospects/?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

I am pretty scared off of Wallace based on what Hollinger is reporting. Sore back is one thing, but to see a steady decline from him seems worrisome.

I'm concerned about it too, however, it may be an opportunity to grab a guy who never would have made it there otherwise. Trust your medical evaluators and staff (i.e., Alex Mckechnie). If they think they can rehab or work to fix the problem then you got a potential steal.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/small-business/sb-marketing/he-healed-shaq-but-his-business-is-still-on-the-bench/article4616609/

It was a recurring problem for the 25-year-old centre, then in his second year with the Los Angeles Lakers, and, at the time, Shaq remembers, it felt like his abs were "ripped in half, hanging together by one little thread."

Lakers medical staff didn't know what to do. They prescribed drugs and rest. A year-long recovery and surgery loomed. "One wrong move," Mr. O'Neal says, "and I'd have been out my whole career."

The Lakers staff searched for options and came across a Canadian who had successfully treated a similar injury. "This guy in Canada," Shaq was told, "he can fix you."

Working with Mr. McKechnie, Shaq would at one moment be tied up like a marionette, and then he'd perch his huge frame on the makeshift wobble board. It felt, Mr. O'Neal remembers, a bit "silly." But he was determined to skirt surgery and kept at it. It worked – he was back on the court several weeks later.

Over the next two years, Shaq spent his summers in Vancouver, training with Mr. McKechnie. By the autumn of 1999, he arrived for work with the Lakers more formidable than ever. He played almost every game and scored a career-best, league-leading 30 points a game, topped by a scorching night when he slammed in 61 points on his 28th birthday.

Also, different situations but I remember when OG fell to us because teams thought he would be out for the season with his knee injury. McKechnie helped him recover so fast that he almost broke camp with us.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Read on Twitter

[ATLTimekeeper]

Back issues are a stay away, especially for guards.

It could be he has never had a proper training or trainers, i.e. proper warm ups, cool downs combined. Could just have tight muscles from years of going all out without proper care and training. Muscles could be tight from this, then Kentucky gets him in the weight room doing Olympic lifts for the first time and his back really tightens up.

I really have no clue. This is a long way of saying if there is nothing structurally wrong with Wallace's back, I would select him and not think twice. Get him doing some yoga as part of his training with proper warm ups/cool downs and he should be good to go after a few months.

I think the reporting is that he's put in a brace whenever he hits the bench. It doesn't sound like negligence on UK's part. But there's always noise this time a year around injury flags. There's this other rumour that the Spurs are looking for another first round pick to draft a point guard, and he's the only other one slated (unless they're looking at Sasser). Wouldn't shock me if the Spurs are trying to kill his draft stock here by playing up his back health.

[WuTang_CMB]

If OKC takes Bilal then I hope we draft Sidy.

I just really, really like his size, ballhandling and feel for the game. If a team gives him enough opportunity I think he has top 10 talent in him and I said it when he had that month & a half where Scoot was struggling with injury, that suddenly his numbers exploded when he was allowed to play more on ball & was basically averaging 20+ppg night in and night out.

It's funny because I liked him for our pick before the college season started and somehow always end up coming back to him as our pick (as others move up past him lol ie/ Hendricks, Bilal). Some of you can flame if you want but I genuinely don't see what makes Anthony Black THAT much better of a prospect, I actually like the look of Sidy's scoring arsenal more than Black's if I'm being honest.

I think Sidy would be a solid pick for us. The playmaking and IQ are things that stand out to me and major ++ in his game. Had a nice growth year last season and the physical tools are there. I think this is a coming out party for the Ignite this year. Scoot, Sidy and Leonard can all translate.

[niQ]

Spurs should use one of their 2nd round picks on Zach Edey. Twin Towers 2.0.

[JShuttlesworth]

Spurs should use one of their 2nd round picks on Zach Edey. Twin Towers 2.0.

I almost didn't think his wingspan was real

[Psubs]

If OKC takes Bilal then I hope we draft Sidy.

I just really, really like his size, ballhandling and feel for the game. If a team gives him enough opportunity I think he has top 10 talent in him and I said it when he had that month & a half where Scoot was struggling with injury, that suddenly his numbers exploded when he was allowed to play more on ball & was basically averaging 20+ppg night in and night out.

It's funny because I liked him for our pick before the college season started and somehow always end up coming back to him as our pick (as others move up past him lol ie/ Hendricks, Bilal). Some of you can flame if you want but I genuinely don't see what makes Anthony Black THAT much better of a prospect, I actually like the look of Sidy's scoring arsenal more than Black's if I'm being honest.

Yup! You can see he's like OG in the halfcourt with Barnes' passing!

Has anyone on any level made so many spin moves and behind the back passes, all of which were needed and not to show up an opponent? So many dunks in the halfcourt offense, you'd think he was a 6'8+ player.

Every time I go back and watch more footage of him (literally), I find myself thinking why isn't this kid getting more buzz?! He just has a great feel for the game, plays very under control with the ball in his hand, seems to know how to read a defence VERY well and after a couple of months of a rough start to the season (*ahem Scottie did too lol), he really came on down the stretch. His shooting just got better and better after a dismal start. I remember in that month span some podcast mentioned he was shooting something like 37+% or something from 3 down the stretch and his shot mechanics genuinely were looking pretty good to me.

Obviously not incredible number but if he can shoot anywhere above 35% down the line (I don't see why not when we've improved MUCH worse shooters and his mechanics don't look bad), he can be an absolute stud imo and I'm NOT saying his GAME is Jimmy but his FRAME is. He's so STRONG, if people liked Daniels last year, I really don't get why they don't like Sidy who's scoring actually looks better imo than DD's did pre-draft & again I'm not seeing what Black does that makes him that much better honestly.

I know the IDEAL situation is to leave this draft with a great shooting/scoring wing and quite frankly I don't know if I see that in our range. Keyont is a MAAAAYBE for me because he has every damn trick in the bag but of course the fact his shooting numbers weren't great (possibly due to the ankle problems), I'm just not fully confident but he'd be my back up pick and Bufkin to me looks like a pro but not a star. So I don't see a potential star shooting/scoring wing then I'm taking BPA and to me that looks like Sidy and I think he could be developed to score more along the lines of someone like Jalen Williams but perhaps is a bit more pass oriented which isn't the worst thing considering even with Scottie, we still found there wasn't enough movement in the offence and I just think worst case we'd develop him into a helluva player that be the next guy to become one those "OG, Pascal" type of wings that every team wants in a few years from now but that's just me (and prob you lol because I know you've been on the Sid Wagon too).

Sidy shows decent lateral quickness to slide on defense and looks strong and wide to wall up players. Shows decent IQ on rotations from the weakside. Physically can see the defensive potential like OG. Practicing with OG might help too. At 19 and playing in the GLeague he looks physically ready to hang in the NBA.

Bufkin seems to have also grown an inch over the past year but still slight and would need to get stronger or take a bit longer like a Bones Hyland or Tre Mann.

Would Utah trade #16, #28 and Rudy Gay (player option) for #13, Otto Porter Jr and Malachi Flynn?

Utah gets younger, maybe they take Black at #9 and don't want to miss out on Bufkin so move up from 16 to 13 and draft Bufkin.

Raptors draft Cissoko at #16 and #28 Trayce Jackson-Davis (minimum he's as good as Jaylin Williams, solid backup PF/C that plays for 10+ years). Trade Precious for Isaiah Joe!

PG FVV - Barnes - Dowtin
SG OG - Trent - Joe/Banton
SF Siakam - OG - Harper/Cissoko
PF Barnes - Boucher - TJD
C Poeltl - Siakam/Koloko

[Lord_Zedd]

Yup! You can see he's like OG in the halfcourt with Barnes' passing!

Has anyone on any level made so many spin moves and behind the back passes, all of which were needed and not to show up an opponent? So many dunks in the halfcourt offense, you'd think he was a 6'8+ player.

Every time I go back and watch more footage of him (literally), I find myself thinking why isn't this kid getting more buzz?! He just has a great feel for the game, plays very under control with the ball in his hand, seems to know how to read a defence VERY well and after a couple of months of a rough start to the season (*ahem Scottie did too lol), he really came on down the stretch. His shooting just got better and better after a dismal start. I remember in that month span some podcast mentioned he was shooting something like 37+% or something from 3 down the stretch and his shot mechanics genuinely were looking pretty good to me.

Obviously not incredible number but if he can shoot anywhere above 35% down the line (I don't see why not when we've improved MUCH worse shooters and his mechanics don't look bad), he can be an absolute stud imo and I'm NOT saying his GAME is Jimmy but his FRAME is. He's so STRONG, if people liked Daniels last year, I really don't get why they don't like Sidy who's scoring actually looks better imo than DD's did pre-draft & again I'm not seeing what Black does that makes him that much better honestly.

I know the IDEAL situation is to leave this draft with a great shooting/scoring wing and quite frankly I don't know if I see that in our range. Keyont is a MAAAAYBE for me because he has every damn trick in the bag but of course the fact his shooting numbers weren't great (possibly due to the ankle problems), I'm just not fully confident but he'd be my back up pick and Bufkin to me looks like a pro but not a star. So I don't see a potential star shooting/scoring wing then I'm taking BPA and to me that looks like Sidy and I think he could be developed to score more along the lines of someone like Jalen Williams but perhaps is a bit more pass oriented which isn't the worst thing considering even with Scottie, we still found there wasn't enough movement in the offence and I just think worst case we'd develop him into a helluva player that be the next guy to become one those "OG, Pascal" type of wings that every team wants in a few years from now but that's just me (and prob you lol because I know you've been on the Sid Wagon too).

Sidy shows decent lateral quickness to slide on defense and looks strong and wide to wall up players. Shows decent IQ on rotations from the weakside. Physically can see the defensive potential like OG. Practicing with OG might help too. At 19 and playing in the GLeague he looks physically ready to hang in the NBA.

Bufkin seems to have also grown an inch over the past year but still slight and would need to get stronger or take a bit longer like a Bones Hyland or Tre Mann.

Would Utah trade #16, #28 and Rudy Gay (player option) for #13, Otto Porter Jr and Malachi Flynn?

Utah gets younger, maybe they take Black at #9 and don't want to miss out on Bufkin so move up from 16 to 13 and draft Bufkin.

Raptors draft Cissoko at #16 and #28 Trayce Jackson-Davis (minimum he's as good as Jaylin Williams, solid backup PF/C that plays for 10+ years). Trade Precious for Isaiah Joe!

PG FVV - Barnes - Dowtin
SG OG - Trent - Cissoko/Banton
SF Siakam - OG - Harper
PF Barnes - Boucher - TJD
C Poeltl - Siakam/Koloko

I wouldn't mind a trade down with Utah, but the trade needs to be more enticing for us. Swapping trash for trash ain't going to cut it for me. And this is Danny Ainge we're dealing with, he'll probably expect Siakam in the package.

[raincityraptors]

I may not agree with the order within these tiers but of all the tier groupings I have seen, this is the one that matches my eye test the most. I'm old school, not a data guy. So it's odd to find myself agreeing with someone who is.

Bufkin is the name I am looking for at 13, if he is there and we don't take him, it's going to give me heartburn for years.

Joh Hollinger's Athletics article ranks the top 20 players in the draft:

T1
1. Wemby

T2
2. Scoot
3. Cam Whitmore
4. Brandon Miller
5. Anthony Black
Black reminds me of Jason Kidd at times, a big, smart, defensively active guard who impacts winning in so many other areas that the lack of a jump shot becomes secondary. Black is also among the younger players in this cohort, with an early 2004 birthdate, and thus time is on his side when it comes to finding his stroke.

T3
6. Amen
Overtime Elite played one real game against another professional team, versus the Adelaide 36ers of the Australian NBL in October. They lost, but Amen was the best player on the floor with 17 points, eight rebounds and five assists.

Fortunately, the eye test makes it easy to take the plunge here. Amen is 6-7, can handle the ball, jumps out of the gym and sees the floor. This is the exact thing every team in the league is moving heaven and earth to acquire: elite athletes with size who can handle and pass.
7. Ausar

T4
8. Lively
9. Hendricks
10. Bufkin
11. Dick
12. Jarace Walker
13. Cason Wallace
The issue with Wallace — one that scouts related to me as well — is what his medical report from the NBA Draft Combine will say. Wallace was impacted by several injuries this past season, including a back injury that you don’t usually see with 19-year-olds; at virtually any point in the season, you can see him wrapped up like a mummy while he takes the court.

His defensive clips, in particular, get notably worse as the season goes on, and he started to look very stiff by the end.

14. Dariq Whitehead
15. Noah Clowney

T5
16. Jaime Jaquez
17. Bilal
18. Sasser
19. Leonard Miller
20. Hawkins

Sleepers:
Trey Alexander
Podz

https://theathletic.com/4520965/2023/05/16/nba-draft-2023-hollinger-top-20-prospects/?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

I am pretty scared off of Wallace based on what Hollinger is reporting. Sore back is one thing, but to see a steady decline from him seems worrisome.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

so who are the sleepers in this draft. guys who will probably get picked if the Raptors come to their picks :

- #3 (if Raptors trade Siakam, say if Miller or Scoot isn't what Masai thinks they will be, will there be a surprise pick?)
- #13

will the Raptors be given an opportunity to work out/interview any of the top 10 supposed nba draft picks or will they be snubbed?

[ATLTimekeeper]

FML!!

I just scrolled through my gram, not sure how legit the source is for the "globalscouting" BUT....the page says that "multiple scouts & agents believe that THE THUNDER HAVE THEIR EYES SET ON FRANCE'S BILAL COULIBALY AT NO.12"

Yeah with this dumb ass Play In push season, that sounds about f*cking right lol smdh

So you think that OKC is leaking their draft preference a month before the draft, and that they're a really smart and well-run organization.

[PhilBlackson]

so who are the sleepers in this draft. guys who will probably get picked if the Raptors come to their picks :

- #3 (if Raptors trade Siakam, say if Miller or Scoot isn't what Masai thinks they will be, will there be a surprise pick?)
- #13

will the Raptors be given an opportunity to work out/interview any of the top 10 supposed nba draft picks or will they be snubbed?

The obvious "surprise" pick at 3 would be Amen Thompson (something I actually said earlier this thread bc ofc they love to shock everyone lol) and at 13, it's not just because I like him a lot but I genuinely can see them draft Cissiko who I still find baffling that very few people talk about as a lottery level prospect and he completely fits both the physical profile and skillsets they usually value. I would throw in GG Jackson just because he fits the criteria as a shocking pick lol which again seems to the franchise's calling card at the draft. He fits the physical profile (not so much the defensive one). The other one that makes me sick to my stomach thinking is JHS, so good chance he's the pick lol smh

[Psubs]

Sidy shows decent lateral quickness to slide on defense and looks strong and wide to wall up players. Shows decent IQ on rotations from the weakside. Physically can see the defensive potential like OG. Practicing with OG might help too. At 19 and playing in the GLeague he looks physically ready to hang in the NBA.

Bufkin seems to have also grown an inch over the past year but still slight and would need to get stronger or take a bit longer like a Bones Hyland or Tre Mann.

Would Utah trade #16, #28 and Rudy Gay (player option) for #13, Otto Porter Jr and Malachi Flynn?

Utah gets younger, maybe they take Black at #9 and don't want to miss out on Bufkin so move up from 16 to 13 and draft Bufkin.

Raptors draft Cissoko at #16 and #28 Trayce Jackson-Davis (minimum he's as good as Jaylin Williams, solid backup PF/C that plays for 10+ years). Trade Precious for Isaiah Joe!

PG FVV - Barnes - Dowtin
SG OG - Trent - Cissoko/Banton
SF Siakam - OG - Harper
PF Barnes - Boucher - TJD
C Poeltl - Siakam/Koloko

I wouldn't mind a trade down with Utah, but the trade needs to be more enticing for us. Swapping trash for trash ain't going to cut it for me. And this is Danny Ainge we're dealing with, he'll probably expect Siakam in the package.

Do you think Otto could net a 2nd round pick? Do you think the Raptors could get a 2nd round pick for Flynn? Masai did get 2nd picks for TD and Matt Thomas, so you never know. Though they would probably be mid-late 2nds that when combined, likley would've net you #28. So giving up 3 spots to #16, makes the deal justifiable on their side. I guess it frees up a roster spot too.

If they can flip Flynn for a 2nd pick use it like a lottery ticket to draft Tristan Vukcevic.

Watch on YouTube