Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[Clutch0z24]

Exactly, you don't bend over backwards and give up every asset you have for a single player, Giannis is great, but he aint prime MJ.

Thing is other teams maybe offering up that many draft picks for Giannis....Which if your the Bucks who can obv accept any offer on the table....Why would they entertain us?...Unless they think Barnes is that good to ignore all the other assets available....Which is a stretch....

#9th pick is gone, Barnes is gone and one of RJ/Dick is gone....Thats just the starting offer...it may stretch to 3 future 1st on top of that imo...

No team is going to offer 4-5 unprotected picks and a top young guy like Barnes.

If Bucks want multiple unprotected picks, the Raps can offer that. If they want a deal centered around a good young player instead, the Raps can offer that as well.

Rockets could offer Sengun/Jabari/Reed Shep along with many first rounders as well as the 10th pick....Spurs can offer 2nd pick/14th pick, Castle, Keldon, Vassell + Future picks, OKC if they wanted could come in with Chet + Lots of future firsts...

You have to assume these offers will be on the table for an all time great....Now if Raptors are Giannis perfered destination but we have offers on the table like that ^ and the Raptors are trying to low ball me ....I am ignoring all wants Giannis has and accepting one of them deals...

[OakleyDokely]

Thing is other teams maybe offering up that many draft picks for Giannis....Which if your the Bucks who can obv accept any offer on the table....Why would they entertain us?...Unless they think Barnes is that good to ignore all the other assets available....Which is a stretch....

#9th pick is gone, Barnes is gone and one of RJ/Dick is gone....Thats just the starting offer...it may stretch to 3 future 1st on top of that imo...

No team is going to offer 4-5 unprotected picks and a top young guy like Barnes.

If Bucks want multiple unprotected picks, the Raps can offer that. If they want a deal centered around a good young player instead, the Raps can offer that as well.

Rockets could offer Sengun/Jabari/Reed Shep along with many first rounders as well as the 10th pick....Spurs can offer 2nd pick/14th pick, Castle, Keldon, Vassell + Future picks, OKC if they wanted could come in with Chet + Lots of future firsts...

You have to assume these offers will be on the table for an all time great....Now if Raptors are Giannis perfered destination but we have offers on the table like that ^ and the Raptors are trying to low ball me ....I am ignoring all wants Giannis has and accepting one of them deals...

They can, but they won't.

The deal will likely be multiple 1sts, with a couple b tier prospects and filler contracts or a top young guy and a pick/prospect.

[Madvillainy2004]

IQ, Ingram, Giannis and Poeltl will beat any team in the east. I have no worries about that.

Pacers don’t scare me at all lol. Especially with competent players around Giannis.

A team with Brunson and KAT was 2 games away from playing for a championship lmao honestly the east being weak makes this the perfect time. Like I've seen prime Bron in the playoffs, Mitchell, Haliburton, Cade, and Brunson don't scare me.

[TravisScott55]

No one in this thread has said Giannis is better than Jokic, unless I completely missed it.

Siakam is a better player than Ingram, though it's never been a massive gap. Ingram is a better shot creator in the half court while Siakam is a better transition player, off-ball play finisher, and defender. With that said, Ingram is a fine fit with Giannis given the need for a secondary initiator and scorer beside him (see Middelton, Dame trade). Would I rather have Siakam beside him? I think so, but it's not that far off.

IQ vs Turner is almost impossible to rank. They both give you desirable traits in their position while also bringing a few critical shortcomings.

I do wonder why you are dodging the original debate though. Haliburton/Siakam/Turner are in the finals. Do you believe Giannis/Ingram/IQ are considerably worse?

Yes they aren't as good. Quickley is a bench player as best, Ingram is injury prone and hasn't shown he can play off ball.

Okay man. Indiana is SO GOOD with obvious starters like Aaron Nesmith, and Andrew Nembhard, but IQ and Ingram suck. Got it.

Why do these awful troll accounts suddenly appear some days?

Your feelings are hurt cause someone disagrees with you

[WuTang_CMB]

The East is wide open
Even if we strike out (which is probably likely), Masai at least gets it and sees the window of opportunity
be aggressive for Giannis and you hope the price isn't crazy
if you miss out, then you continue with scottie and keep adding in other areas, grow your young guys etc

[TheDunc]

Im not too concerned, I think we end up giving less then people think for Giannis or the trade doesnt get done.

That being said, every trade starts with Barnes + 9th pick and thats fine to me even though Id hate to move on from Scottie.

Giannis can still be an MVP for the next few years, if you cab get him without emptying the team you have to do it

[OakleyDokely]

If the Raps go into the season with Giannis/Ingram/IQ/Poeltl, they might be the betting favorites in the east.

[Clutch0z24]

No team is going to offer 4-5 unprotected picks and a top young guy like Barnes.

If Bucks want multiple unprotected picks, the Raps can offer that. If they want a deal centered around a good young player instead, the Raps can offer that as well.

Rockets could offer Sengun/Jabari/Reed Shep along with many first rounders as well as the 10th pick....Spurs can offer 2nd pick/14th pick, Castle, Keldon, Vassell + Future picks, OKC if they wanted could come in with Chet + Lots of future firsts...

You have to assume these offers will be on the table for an all time great....Now if Raptors are Giannis perfered destination but we have offers on the table like that ^ and the Raptors are trying to low ball me ....I am ignoring all wants Giannis has and accepting one of them deals...

They can, but they won't.

The deal will likely be multiple 1sts, with a couple b tier prospects and filler contracts or a top young guy and a pick/prospect.

In what world do you think Giannis won't have that kinda value? This is not an over the hill KD or a Bridges/Donovan Mitchell level player here...This is an all time great top 3 player in the world type player....Giannis is not on his walk year they don't have to trade him even if he demands a trade....Bucks will get a haul for Giannis regardless of which team trades for him....Just like the GM already came out and said....Your not going to get Giannis on a discount and if you think you are ....Good luck...

[OakleyDokely]

Rockets could offer Sengun/Jabari/Reed Shep along with many first rounders as well as the 10th pick....Spurs can offer 2nd pick/14th pick, Castle, Keldon, Vassell + Future picks, OKC if they wanted could come in with Chet + Lots of future firsts...

You have to assume these offers will be on the table for an all time great....Now if Raptors are Giannis perfered destination but we have offers on the table like that ^ and the Raptors are trying to low ball me ....I am ignoring all wants Giannis has and accepting one of them deals...

They can, but they won't.

The deal will likely be multiple 1sts, with a couple b tier prospects and filler contracts or a top young guy and a pick/prospect.

In what world do you think Giannis won't have that kinda value? This is not an over the hill KD or a Bridges/Donovan Mitchell level player here...This is an all time great top 3 player in the world type player....Giannis is not on his walk year they don't have to trade him even if he demands a trade....Bucks will get a haul for Giannis regardless of which team trades for him....Just like the GM already came out and said....Your not going to get Giannis on a discount and if you think you are ....Good luck...

I'm going based on history. Name another deal where any player landed a top, established young player like Barnes + 4-5 unprotected 1sts

[bballsparkin]

I don't mind trading Barnes but I am not in favour of trading far off picks especially if they are not protected. Are people assuming Giannis would extend? Two years of Giannis does not sound that great to me if he bolts. Plus, I kinda want to draft #9 this year. Barnes, RJ, pick swaps in 26+28. Top 4 protected FRP in 2027 and top 4 protected in 2029.

I'd probably do that.

[Troubadour]

The move that would be really exciting: pairing KD and Giannis in Toronto.

IQ / Shead
Agbaji / Walter
Durant / Battle
Antetokounmpo / Mogbo
Poeltl / Boucher

Now that's a team that I want to see in Toronto!

[Clutch0z24]

They can, but they won't.

The deal will likely be multiple 1sts, with a couple b tier prospects and filler contracts or a top young guy and a pick/prospect.

In what world do you think Giannis won't have that kinda value? This is not an over the hill KD or a Bridges/Donovan Mitchell level player here...This is an all time great top 3 player in the world type player....Giannis is not on his walk year they don't have to trade him even if he demands a trade....Bucks will get a haul for Giannis regardless of which team trades for him....Just like the GM already came out and said....Your not going to get Giannis on a discount and if you think you are ....Good luck...

I'm going based on history. Name another deal where any player landed a top, established young player like Barnes + 4-5 unprotected 1sts

Not many players on the level of Giannis have been traded before....LeBron always walked in Free agency and was never traded....Kobe was never traded, MJ was never traded.....I don't remember a time a top 3 player was ever traded....So this is not a player you can look at the history because it does not exist....

A 35 year old KD costed the Suns Mikal Bridges/Cam Johnson(Their best young players) + 4 First rounders...And thats a old KD...

Giannis value will in fact be a few of your best young players + Draft picks + A lotto pick in this upcoming draft....Like i said Giannis is also not on his walk year so this is not a Siakam/OG situation either...

[OakleyDokely]

In what world do you think Giannis won't have that kinda value? This is not an over the hill KD or a Bridges/Donovan Mitchell level player here...This is an all time great top 3 player in the world type player....Giannis is not on his walk year they don't have to trade him even if he demands a trade....Bucks will get a haul for Giannis regardless of which team trades for him....Just like the GM already came out and said....Your not going to get Giannis on a discount and if you think you are ....Good luck...

I'm going based on history. Name another deal where any player landed a top, established young player like Barnes + 4-5 unprotected 1sts

Not many players on the level of Giannis have been traded before....LeBron always walked in Free agency and was never traded....Kobe was never traded, MJ was never traded.....I don't remember a time a top 3 player was ever traded....So this is not a player you can look at the history because it does not exist....

Giannis value will in fact be a few of your best young players + Draft picks + A lotto pick in this upcoming draft....Like i said Giannis is also not on his walk year so this is not a Siakam/OG situation either...

If the asking price is a young player the equivalent of Barnes + 4-5 unprotected picks, he won't be traded because nobody will offer all that.

[Clutch0z24]

I'm going based on history. Name another deal where any player landed a top, established young player like Barnes + 4-5 unprotected 1sts

Not many players on the level of Giannis have been traded before....LeBron always walked in Free agency and was never traded....Kobe was never traded, MJ was never traded.....I don't remember a time a top 3 player was ever traded....So this is not a player you can look at the history because it does not exist....

Giannis value will in fact be a few of your best young players + Draft picks + A lotto pick in this upcoming draft....Like i said Giannis is also not on his walk year so this is not a Siakam/OG situation either...

If the asking price is a young player the equivalent of Barnes + 4-5 unprotected picks, he won't be traded because nobody will offer all that.

Lol...Okay....I don't think you realize how good Giannis is....I never said 5 picks btw i said prolly Barnes/Dick or RJ/Ochai #9 And up to 3-4 Picks on top....Rockets/Spurs will most likely offer a heavy pick + player package ...You have to also realize Bucks do not own their own picks here so they need a compilation of players + Picks to be satisfied with giving away a generational player...

[Jim Todd Jr.]

my only fear is they make us take lopez with him

f lopez

You sure you didnt mean Kuzma?

oh god him too

[WuTang_CMB]

[OakleyDokely]

Not many players on the level of Giannis have been traded before....LeBron always walked in Free agency and was never traded....Kobe was never traded, MJ was never traded.....I don't remember a time a top 3 player was ever traded....So this is not a player you can look at the history because it does not exist....

Giannis value will in fact be a few of your best young players + Draft picks + A lotto pick in this upcoming draft....Like i said Giannis is also not on his walk year so this is not a Siakam/OG situation either...

If the asking price is a young player the equivalent of Barnes + 4-5 unprotected picks, he won't be traded because nobody will offer all that.

Lol...Okay....I don't think you realize how good Giannis is....I never said 5 picks btw i said prolly Barnes/Dick or RJ/Ochai #9 And up to 3-4 Picks on top....Rockets/Spurs will most likely offer a heavy pick + player package ...You have to also realize Bucks do not own their own picks here so they need a compilation of players + Picks to be satisfied with giving away a generational player...

I know exactly how good he is. But I also know the Magic aren't trading Wagner + 4-5 unprotected picks for him. And HOU isn't trading Sengun + 4-5 unprotected picks for him. Teams aren't going to gut both their present and future for anyone.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Read on Twitter

I would do that in a heartbeat.

I think any version of Giannis + Ingram + shooters is going to win you a lot of games.

Making those all unprotected while relying on a duo that is heavily reliant on an unhealthy player staying healthy, and another increasingly injured player no longer being injured, is a horrible trade. Giannis has played 70 + games once in the last 6 years, and we all know BI's struggle with injuries.

The two of them probably barely play 50 games together, and lord only knows how the playoffs would work out.

Those picks absolutely need top 5-10 protections.

Only two of the picks in that proposal are unprotected. We retain 2026, 2028, 2030 FRP. We're already building with Ingram. You either give him an MVP ceiling calibre player or an all-star calibre player to work with.

[Clutch0z24]

If the asking price is a young player the equivalent of Barnes + 4-5 unprotected picks, he won't be traded because nobody will offer all that.

Lol...Okay....I don't think you realize how good Giannis is....I never said 5 picks btw i said prolly Barnes/Dick or RJ/Ochai #9 And up to 3-4 Picks on top....Rockets/Spurs will most likely offer a heavy pick + player package ...You have to also realize Bucks do not own their own picks here so they need a compilation of players + Picks to be satisfied with giving away a generational player...

I know exactly how good he is. But I also know the Magic aren't trading Wagner + 4-5 unprotected picks for him. And HOU isn't trading Sengun + 4-5 unprotected picks for him. Teams aren't going to gut both their present and future for anyone.

Both the Spurs + The Rockets ....Even if they give up Sengun/Reed Shepp + Picks or Spurs give up #2/#14 future picks + Players both teams still have enough to compete after...Same with OKC if they decide to get involved....

If Giannis was on his walk year you would have a point...But Bucks can sit on Giannis if they don't like the offers and everyone is lowballing them....Like i said no player of Giannis level ever been traded in the recent NBA....Teams know if you get Giannis in the door you are one step closer to a title ....There will be steep offers made...

[OakleyDokely]

Lol...Okay....I don't think you realize how good Giannis is....I never said 5 picks btw i said prolly Barnes/Dick or RJ/Ochai #9 And up to 3-4 Picks on top....Rockets/Spurs will most likely offer a heavy pick + player package ...You have to also realize Bucks do not own their own picks here so they need a compilation of players + Picks to be satisfied with giving away a generational player...

I know exactly how good he is. But I also know the Magic aren't trading Wagner + 4-5 unprotected picks for him. And HOU isn't trading Sengun + 4-5 unprotected picks for him. Teams aren't going to gut both their present and future for anyone.

Both the Spurs + The Rockets ....Even if they give up Sengun/Reed Shepp + Picks or Spurs give up #2/#14 future picks + Players both teams still have enough to compete after...Same with OKC if they decide to get involved....

If Giannis was on his walk year you would have a point...But Bucks can sit on Giannis if they don't like the offers and everyone is lowballing them....Like i said no player of Giannis level ever been traded in the recent NBA....Teams know if you get Giannis in the door you are one step closer to a title ....There will be steep offers made...

If these deals were actually on the table, Giannis would already be traded.