Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread II

[carlosey]

Fisher and Hunter need to be fired. You cant tell me this has been the only possible way to negociate a deal.

[Ponchos]

Fisher and Hunter need to be fired. You cant tell me this has been the only possible way to negociate a deal.

This doesn't even make sense.

[Orsk]

He's right! Their excuse every time is that "we don't have anything to take to the players", "the NBA and Stern are lying", "We won't be pushed around", yada yada yada. They never have a real excuse apart from wanting more money (52%+). They have been terrible with their negotiations. If they hate the offers so much, how come we hardly hear of any offers going the other way. It's always just "NO" from them, I want to see them come back with a counter offer every time they refuse one from the NBA and not just "we want more money". They do not appear to be trying to make anything work.

[C_Money]

If the players don't agree to this its clearly an ego thing. They have no better option at this point. Just take comfort in knowing you never had a choice.

[S.W.A.N]

I surprised how much hate Union has for latest proposal....

Its the best they going to get, and I fear that they don't see it...

Just like the hockey lockout

[Ponchos]

He's right! Their excuse every time is that "we don't have anything to take to the players", "the NBA and Stern are lying", "We won't be pushed around", yada yada yada. They never have a real excuse apart from wanting more money (52%+). They have been terrible with their negotiations. If they hate the offers so much, how come we hardly hear of any offers going the other way. It's always just "NO" from them, I want to see them come back with a counter offer every time they refuse one from the NBA and not just "we want more money". They do not appear to be trying to make anything work.

What are you smoking? They've come in with their own proposals, read the tweets from Woj. 51% was what they came in with tonight. Hardly 52%+.

If you or Carlosey were negotiating for the players I bet they would be at about 30% BRI by now.

[Ponchos]

I surprised how much hate Union has for latest proposal....

Its the best they going to get, and I fear that they don't see it...

Just like the hockey lockout

Even if they plan to accept it before Wednesday, this is exactly the right way for the NBAPA to proceed.

Show disdain for the deal, present your side of the story (51%). Have some show of solidarity with the players on Sunday or Monday. Arrange another meeting with the owners for Tuesday, present your final counter-offer that is very close to the "ultimatum" and see if you can get a deal.

If this truly is the players saying "F this, we're decertifying (or just holding out)" it's a bad play. But I don't think we can tell just yet.

[Orsk]

He's right! Their excuse every time is that "we don't have anything to take to the players", "the NBA and Stern are lying", "We won't be pushed around", yada yada yada. They never have a real excuse apart from wanting more money (52%+). They have been terrible with their negotiations. If they hate the offers so much, how come we hardly hear of any offers going the other way. It's always just "NO" from them, I want to see them come back with a counter offer every time they refuse one from the NBA and not just "we want more money". They do not appear to be trying to make anything work.

What are you smoking? They've come in with their own proposals, read the tweets from Woj. 51% was what they came in with tonight. Hardly 52%+.

If you or Carlosey were negotiating for the players I bet they would be at about 30% BRI by now.

Lol personal attack much?

I said I would like to see a proposal from the players that wasn't just tacking more money on every time. They should say, "if you want to give us 50% we will do it if you do this..." etc or we want "52% but we will give up this". That is negotiating. The players are trying to "Strongarm" the owners by threatening decertifying. Maybe they have come back with more detailed proposals and I just missed it, I don't know.

If they came in with 51% tonight, then the sure as hell should take the 49-51% offered! It will not get much better without going to court.

[Orsk]

I surprised how much hate Union has for latest proposal....

Its the best they going to get, and I fear that they don't see it...

Just like the hockey lockout

Even if they plan to accept it before Wednesday, this is exactly the right way for the NBAPA to proceed.

Show disdain for the deal, present your side of the story (51%). Have some show of solidarity with the players on Sunday or Monday. Arrange another meeting with the owners for Tuesday, present your final counter-offer that is very close to the "ultimatum" and see if you can get a deal.

If this truly is the players saying "F this, we're decertifying (or just holding out)" it's a bad play. But I don't think we can tell just yet.

+1, much better post than your previous one..

[Ponchos]

"if you want to give us 50% we will do it if you do this..."

That's what the players have been doing this whole time. They started at 57%, and have continually moved downward with compromises on system issues between what the owners want and what the players want.

Have you not been paying attention?

[Orsk]

"if you want to give us 50% we will do it if you do this..."

That's what the players have been doing this whole time. They started at 57%, and have continually moved downward with compromises on system issues between what the owners want and what the players want.

Have you not been paying attention?

Yes, but all I have seen is them say "for us to accept that offer we need this % of BRI" I have rarely seen them try to get them to compromise the system issues, it usually just we wont accept that. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong here, but to me it feels like the owners are doing all the work to get a deal done and just running it by the players each time. I'm sure that's not the case behind closed doors, but /shrug

[S.W.A.N]

It seems crazy to me that the players could miss an entire years paychecks over 1% bri.

For a vast number of the current members this season represents 20% or more of their life time earnings.

Swallow your pride take the deal.

[C_Money]

Apparently the players already rejected the offer. So I don't see how these 4 days would change anything. Looks like we won't be having a season this year.

[Ponchos]

"if you want to give us 50% we will do it if you do this..."

That's what the players have been doing this whole time. They started at 57%, and have continually moved downward with compromises on system issues between what the owners want and what the players want.

Have you not been paying attention?

Yes, but all I have seen is them say "for us to accept that offer we need this % of BRI" I have rarely seen them try to get them to compromise the system issues, it usually just we wont accept that. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong here, but to me it feels like the owners are doing all the work to get a deal done and just running it by the players each time. I'm sure that's not the case behind closed doors, but /shrug

If anything, it's the exact opposite.

The owners and the players negotiated for the last month or so on system issues and they worked a ton of them out. The players came down to 52.5% BRI with the system issues they compromised on, and the owners appeared to move towards the players (but in actuality did not). When it came down to crunch time, the owners retreated from all the progress and basically said "if you want the deal with the system issues that we both compromised on, then it will be 47% BRI for you. If you want 50% BRI, then we'll implement whatever system we want'. That's when negotiations went nuclear last week.

The owners have done nothing but stall.. Stall.. Stall... Stall... Stall... While the players have been trying desperately to get a deal done that they can sell to their members.

[Ponchos]

Apparently the players already rejected the offer. So I don't see how these 4 days would change anything. Looks like we won't be having a season this year.

Disagree completely.

The owners just want to break the union. That can happen anytime between now and Jan-Feb and still have a partial season.

[S.W.A.N]

Apparently the players already rejected the offer. So I don't see how these 4 days would change anything. Looks like we won't be having a season this year.

By tomorrow the league will have leaked the full proposal to the press.

There are a percentage of the players who will accept nothing less that 52
There are a percentage of the players who were already willing to accept 50

The question becomes which side gains enough support.

My guess is the silent majority belong to the 50% group but few want to rock the boat.

[floppymoose]

Stern tries to give the players an ultimatum. Players tell him to get bent. Decert here we come?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... lks_110511

[DreamTeam09]

- No sign & trades for tax paying teams... Thats a good call

[floppymoose]

Tweets:

Woj:

Veteran player who has long been on side of decertification just texted me: "Time to blow this (bleep) to the moon."

DeronWilliams:

I've been ready to sign a decertification petition since July? Can't believe we are just now going this route! SMH

[Laowai]

The owners are serious and the players should realize this. Many hardliners are more than willing to blow up the season to get what they really want a hard cap and BRI at 47% and a more more sharing from the have teams.e of you that think this is just about money are crazy. If I was the owner of OKC I would want the hard cap and all of the exemptions gone or face losing a competitive team.

Think 90% of the owners want to win a title while making a profit is important ego of being a winner is more important.

Its quite obvious Stern no longer has control just like Hunter.