2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[Rodrickle]

The Raptors don't have a lot of trade bait and shouldn't be trading future firsts in order to gain entry into this one. Do you trade Boucher, a really good bench player on an already thin bench, for a late first where you might be able to get a really good bench player?

They're in a good range now, and there's really nobody outside of Wemby and Scoot I think is worth trading up for (and unless a team with an established PG gets Scoot, #2 is probably not getting traded).

Definitely trade Boucher and hope that Precious can keep improving and take Boucher's minutes. Package Flynn with Boucher to squeeze out a 1st pick?

I'd rather keep Boucher, who is what you want out of a bench player (always shows up, stable production) and downgrade Precious to a bubble rotation player. I'd trade Boucher for immediate help at the guard position, if that was available, but not for a late first.

Agreed. You're not likely to get a better player than Boucher with a late 1st. Boucher has really positive impact on the game with his length and motor. He's great of the bench, getting blocks and extra possessions and he's a good play finisher. Even with his inconsistent shooting, he still a great bench player. Unless we get an impactful guard, he's better to keep imo. Not sure what more ppl want with a bench big on a reasonable contract

[Ell Curry]

Best option to me is moving forward with OG-Barnes-Jak and two young guards. It's not a full tank because that team is still a .350 team probably. If we get the right young players in here to form our backcourt then we can grow with OG-Barnes-Jak pretty quickly. If we were to blow it up entirely we become a .200 team and it will take aeons to compete again.

I think no matter what teams that have a good mix of some vets with young players will always be in a better place in terms of development than teams comprised of almost all youngsters. It's always a good idea to mix both.

If this is the way, then I think we're hoping (apart from winning the lotto ourselves) for Portland or Charlotte to get #3, #2 to be Brandon Miller and then we can do something like Siakam and #13 for #4 and a contract from those teams (tougher with Portland, but a 1 year 15M deal for Reddish makes it work, along with Nurkic to a 3rd team that needs a center and some random guy to us, like an expiring in 2024 deal like Joe Harris or Marcus Morris).

Van Vleet leaves for say Orlando and we run out: Scoot-Trent-OG-Barnes-Jak, Achiuwa and Koloko keep developing as the 4 and 5 backups and I guess we probably look to turn those expirings and some minor draft equity into a quality 6th man guard like we did with the Brogdon trade, or we end up with a guy like Rozier or Anfernee Simons in the Siakam trade (even if the latter means also giving up one of Achiuwa or Koloko to Portland, who could really use either).

Not sure there's enough shooting with Scoot and Barnes being average, but we should be able to get Trent and OG a ton of 3s with those 2 being athletic (Barnes will be a handful for 4s off the dribble as his handle improves) and good passers.

[Psubs]

Definitely trade Boucher and hope that Precious can keep improving and take Boucher's minutes. Package Flynn with Boucher to squeeze out a 1st pick?

I'd rather keep Boucher, who is what you want out of a bench player (always shows up, stable production) and downgrade Precious to a bubble rotation player. I'd trade Boucher for immediate help at the guard position, if that was available, but not for a late first.

Agreed. You're not likely to get a better player than Boucher with a late 1st. Boucher has really positive impact on the game with his length and motor. He's great of the bench, getting blocks and extra possessions and he's a good play finisher. Even with his inconsistent shooting, he still a great bench player. Unless we get an impactful guard, he's better to keep imo. Not sure what more ppl want with a bench big on a reasonable contract

Kind of like Trayce Jackson-Davis to fill the roll. Even guys like Jaylin Williams and Xavier Tillman are starting at C these days.

[S ID]

Watch on YouTube

[DreamTeam09]

Best option to me is moving forward with OG-Barnes-Jak and two young guards. It's not a full tank because that team is still a .350 team probably. If we get the right young players in here to form our backcourt then we can grow with OG-Barnes-Jak pretty quickly. If we were to blow it up entirely we become a .200 team and it will take aeons to compete again.

I think no matter what teams that have a good mix of some vets with young players will always be in a better place in terms of development than teams comprised of almost all youngsters. It's always a good idea to mix both.

If this is the way, then I think we're hoping (apart from winning the lotto ourselves) for Portland or Charlotte to get #3, #2 to be Brandon Miller and then we can do something like Siakam and #13 for #4 and a contract from those teams (tougher with Portland, but a 1 year 15M deal for Reddish makes it work, along with Nurkic to a 3rd team that needs a center and some random guy to us, like an expiring in 2024 deal like Joe Harris or Marcus Morris).

Van Vleet leaves for say Orlando and we run out: Scoot-Trent-OG-Barnes-Jak, Achiuwa and Koloko keep developing as the 4 and 5 backups and I guess we probably look to turn those expirings and some minor draft equity into a quality 6th man guard like we did with the Brogdon trade, or we end up with a guy like Rozier or Anfernee Simons in the Siakam trade (even if the latter means also giving up one of Achiuwa or Koloko to Portland, who could really use either).

Not sure there's enough shooting with Scoot and Barnes being average, but we should be able to get Trent and OG a ton of 3s with those 2 being athletic (Barnes will be a handful for 4s off the dribble as his handle improves) and good passers.

We're not tanking next year with no pick. Any team with Barnes or OG as it's main option is a tanking team. If we were looking to trade Pascal this summer we wouldn't have traded a pick. The earliest this team will tank is 2025

[Ell Curry]

We're not tanking next year with no pick. Any team with Barnes or OG as it's main option is a tanking team. If we were looking to trade Pascal this summer we wouldn't have traded a pick. The earliest this team will tank is 2025

I agree with this, but even with young PGs who aren't great shooters mostly sucking, I'm not sure we're any worse than this year's 40 wins with Scoot-Trent-OG-Barnes-Poeltl as a starting 5, that seems like another 40 win team to me if we plug in Scoot as say rookie Marbury.

But yeah, the Poeltl deal suggests we bring back everyone, get a new coach in who's less into the Houston (NCAA) style of winning possession battle as the major tactic, and move Boucher for say Shamet to get a guard in and that's it.

[ATLTimekeeper]

We're not tanking next year with no pick. Any team with Barnes or OG as it's main option is a tanking team. If we were looking to trade Pascal this summer we wouldn't have traded a pick. The earliest this team will tank is 2025

I agree with this, but even with young PGs who aren't great shooters mostly sucking, I'm not sure we're any worse than this year's 40 wins with Scoot-Trent-OG-Barnes-Poeltl as a starting 5, that seems like another 40 win team to me if we plug in Scoot as say rookie Marbury.

That team would struggle to win 10 games, unless Scottie somehow turns into Giannis.

[DreamTeam09]

We're not tanking next year with no pick. Any team with Barnes or OG as it's main option is a tanking team. If we were looking to trade Pascal this summer we wouldn't have traded a pick. The earliest this team will tank is 2025

I agree with this, but even with young PGs who aren't great shooters mostly sucking, I'm not sure we're any worse than this year's 40 wins with Scoot-Trent-OG-Barnes-Poeltl as a starting 5, that seems like another 40 win team to me if we plug in Scoot as say rookie Marbury.

If this team with FVV and Pascal couldn't sustain injuries, then a rookie scoot with this team would be a top 6 lottery team, and our lotto pick is top 4 protected.

Ya'all should be looking at Boucher Thad Flynn maybe FVV type of trades. Pascal and GTJ are likely back imo

[OakleyDokely]

We're not tanking next year with no pick. Any team with Barnes or OG as it's main option is a tanking team. If we were looking to trade Pascal this summer we wouldn't have traded a pick. The earliest this team will tank is 2025

I agree with this, but even with young PGs who aren't great shooters mostly sucking, I'm not sure we're any worse than this year's 40 wins with Scoot-Trent-OG-Barnes-Poeltl as a starting 5, that seems like another 40 win team to me if we plug in Scoot as say rookie Marbury.

If this team with FVV and Pascal couldn't sustain injuries, then a rookie scoot with this team would be a top 6 lottery team, and our lotto pick is top 4 protected.

Ya'all should be looking at Boucher Thad Flynn maybe FVV type of trades. Pascal and GTJ are likely back imo

The pick next year is top 6 protected. Raps would give it up if it's between 7-30.

[Dalek]

Older prospects tends to have a niche NBA level skill that should translate. Kris Murray with his size and shooting should be able to fit into a rotation. Colby Jones with his passing, balanced floor game and IQ should be able to play on a playoff team.

Terrence Shannon Jr. is a player I have followed for years at Texas Tech and his size as a guard, defense, and motor would translate to the NBA as a role player. At Illinois they made him a focal point and for the at least half of the college season he looked like a lottery pick. The most translatable skill is his on ball speed. He is explosive on ball and will be tough to stop in the NBA while in transition.

Key numbers:
17 PPG/5 REB/3 AST
50 made threes (32%) - volume shooter who was the offensive focal point for Illinois
58 TS%
210 FTs (79 FT%; .583 FTR) - FTR is at a frontcourt player level while he is a guard; of note only 23% of his at the rim attempts are assisted showing his shot creation.
1.8 DPM (his defense fell behind this year with the increased offensive load)
6.1 BPM

Showcase game: UCLA had control of the game until TSJ took over in the second half and you can see it ranges from attacking in the halfcourt to getting white hot from outside. Keep in mind TSJ is doing this against NBA caliber players for the most part.

Watch on YouTube

In some ways he reminds me of Anthony Black but more of a shooting guard type and not a big connector like Black is. I feel like TSJ may surprise people in the draft.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I don't see any future for a guy like Shannon, hated Illinois too.

[dozo]

Read on Twitter

Smh. Most of the two way players will be off the board when the raptors select.

Perimeter Defenders

Cason Wallace is the top point of attack defender in the draft. His instincts paired with his great defensive IQ allows him to be a disruptive guard defender. He has the ability to take opposing teams out of their offense due to his tenacity as a defender. He has the strength to bump ball-handlers out of their spots and the lateral quickness to beat them to where they’re trying to go. Wallace has drawn comparisons to Jrue Holiday, Marcus Smart, and Derrick White for a reason.

Anthony Black is an NBA-ready perimeter defender as he has the high feel and size to defend a variety of top tier different ball-handlers in the NBA. He has better measurables than someone like Wallace, just not the same level of discipline. At 6-foot-7 he can bother shorter sized ball-handlers due to his ability to contain ball-handlers off the dribble and size to hurt their court vision. He’s only going to get better defensively. Think of him as a Lonzo Ball type of defender.

Amen Thompson has the best defensive tools in the entire draft amongst all guards. He has his lapses right now but looks to be on the Ben Simmons trajectory to where they were way better defensively in the NBA compared to their pre draft stage. His lateral quickness, size, and great defensive instincts will allow Thompson to be one of the most disruptive defenders in the entire NBA one day. Expect him to rapidly improve as a defender month by month.

Interior Defenders

Victor Wembanyama is one of the most polarizing prospects we’ve ever seen before widely due to his two-way impact. His elite shot-blocking skills and projection as a defender are special. He has unreal size paired with great defensive instincts. He still has to fill out his frame to fill out in a post but it’s incredibly rare to see someone at 7-foot-5 to have the feel for the game and mobility like he does.
Dereck Lively II is the top rim protecting prospect in college basketball. He stands at 7-foot-1 and possesses an incredible 7-foot-8 wingspan which allows him to block or alter almost any shot that comes in the paint. He has vastly improved as a defender from when he first entered college to now so it’s easy to imagine that he’ll continue to improve as a paint defender when Lively gets to the NBA which is scary to think about.

Taylor Hendricks isn’t a center like the other two prospects but it’s his shot-blocking skills, great movement skills at 6-foot-9, and incredibly long arms as he has a 7-foot-2 wingspan makes him the paint defending forward in the draft. Hendricks is a quick leaper getting off the ground and pairing that with some good timing to alter shots inside the paint gives him great upside as an interior defender.

Versatile Defenders

Ausar Thompson is one of the best defensive prospects in the entire draft. He has the quickness and ability to defend ball-handlers at a high level while also switching onto forwards due to his size and length. He’s a stock monster as he lives in the passing lanes and is the best shot-blocking guard prospect I’ve ever seen due to his incredible vertical pop, instincts, and timing. He reminds a lot of scouts of Andrew Wiggins.

Jarace Walker has an NBA ready frame as he currently weighs in at 240 pounds and stands at 6-foot-8 with a 7-foot-2 wingspan. His NBA ready physical tools and all-around athleticism gives him some ridiculous defensive upside. He can switch onto quicker guards late in the shot clock and has the ability to defend two through four at a high level. Walker doesn’t flip his hips incredibly quick but solid enough to guard out in space.

Rayan Rupert is one of the most intriguing defensive prospects in the entire draft. He’s a wing defender that stands at 6-foot-6 but has an unreal 7-foot-3 wingspan which gives him the upside to be an elite defensive playmaker in the passing lanes and on the ball. He has the ability to defend up and down any given lineup. He has drawn a ton of comparisons to an elite NBA defender in Matisse Thybulle.

[ItsDanger]

Terrence Shannon was forced to do too much ball handling. Showed flashes but was inconsistent. I'd definitely work him out.

[Yallbecrazy]

If we're trading Siakam it's for guys like Klay + Kuminga or Hield and picks. We are then probably using those picks to acquire other players via trade.

Siakam is a guy you trade to a contending team and most of those teams need shooting, not a primary/secondary creator.

Knicks may want him, but all their picks are heavily protected and I don't like their younger guys very much.
OKC has creators, they need shooting.
Maybe if the Nuggets get ousted quickly we could swap him for Porter Jr as I don't see them giving us Murray unless we throw more in there.

Problem is Porter and Murray allow Jokic to have more space and Siakam while better isn't as good of a fit and that will hold true for most teams we look to trade with.

[dozo]

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[Rapsfan07]

Terrence Shannon was forced to do too much ball handling. Showed flashes but was inconsistent. I'd definitely work him out.

He's mocked to go a lot lower than our pick but I would work him out just to get a look.

Looks like the Pacers will move some of their picks as well, who knows.

[Rapsfan07]

If we're trading Siakam it's for guys like Klay + Kuminga or Hield and picks. We are then probably using those picks to acquire other players via trade.

Siakam is a guy you trade to a contending team and most of those teams need shooting, not a primary/secondary creator.

Knicks may want him, but all their picks are heavily protected and I don't like their younger guys very much.
OKC has creators, they need shooting.
Maybe if the Nuggets get ousted quickly we could swap him for Porter Jr as I don't see them giving us Murray unless we throw more in there.

Problem is Porter and Murray allow Jokic to have more space and Siakam while better isn't as good of a fit and that will hold true for most teams we look to trade with.

If we're trading Siakam, it is for the best package available.

The definition of "best" will highly depend on the direction the front office wants to take. If we are moving Siakam, we don't need second tier stars like like Thompson back in return. We'd need picks and young guys and there are other teams in the league that can give us better packages.

As far as I'm personally concerned, I don't see a deal with the Nuggets. We don't need Murray back and I don't want Porter Jr. He's injured all the time and is owed a lot of money.

[Dalek]

I don't see any future for a guy like Shannon, hated Illinois too.

Do you really think he won't make the league? I thought he made huge improvements this past year and being Big 10 POY should give a shot at the first round. He was always a decent defender and he is a strong kid.

He is older but I think the NBA is willing to take athletes like him and develop the shooting. I think in Toronto's system he would be great because he does a little of everything and he is a high motor guy. If we had a second it might happen.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I don't see any future for a guy like Shannon, hated Illinois too.

Do you really think he won't make the league? I thought he made huge improvements this past year and being Big 10 POY should give a shot at the first round. He was always a decent defender and he is a strong kid.

He is older but I think the NBA is willing to take athletes like him and develop the shooting. I think in Toronto's system he would be great because he does a little of everything and he is a high motor guy. If we had a second it might happen.

Looks like g-league material to me. He will definitely get his shot with some club.

[Dalek]

Read on Twitter

Smh. Most of the two way players will be off the board when the raptors select.

Perimeter Defenders

Cason Wallace is the top point of attack defender in the draft. His instincts paired with his great defensive IQ allows him to be a disruptive guard defender. He has the ability to take opposing teams out of their offense due to his tenacity as a defender. He has the strength to bump ball-handlers out of their spots and the lateral quickness to beat them to where they’re trying to go. Wallace has drawn comparisons to Jrue Holiday, Marcus Smart, and Derrick White for a reason.

Anthony Black is an NBA-ready perimeter defender as he has the high feel and size to defend a variety of top tier different ball-handlers in the NBA. He has better measurables than someone like Wallace, just not the same level of discipline. At 6-foot-7 he can bother shorter sized ball-handlers due to his ability to contain ball-handlers off the dribble and size to hurt their court vision. He’s only going to get better defensively. Think of him as a Lonzo Ball type of defender.

Amen Thompson has the best defensive tools in the entire draft amongst all guards. He has his lapses right now but looks to be on the Ben Simmons trajectory to where they were way better defensively in the NBA compared to their pre draft stage. His lateral quickness, size, and great defensive instincts will allow Thompson to be one of the most disruptive defenders in the entire NBA one day. Expect him to rapidly improve as a defender month by month.

Interior Defenders

Victor Wembanyama is one of the most polarizing prospects we’ve ever seen before widely due to his two-way impact. His elite shot-blocking skills and projection as a defender are special. He has unreal size paired with great defensive instincts. He still has to fill out his frame to fill out in a post but it’s incredibly rare to see someone at 7-foot-5 to have the feel for the game and mobility like he does.
Dereck Lively II is the top rim protecting prospect in college basketball. He stands at 7-foot-1 and possesses an incredible 7-foot-8 wingspan which allows him to block or alter almost any shot that comes in the paint. He has vastly improved as a defender from when he first entered college to now so it’s easy to imagine that he’ll continue to improve as a paint defender when Lively gets to the NBA which is scary to think about.

Taylor Hendricks isn’t a center like the other two prospects but it’s his shot-blocking skills, great movement skills at 6-foot-9, and incredibly long arms as he has a 7-foot-2 wingspan makes him the paint defending forward in the draft. Hendricks is a quick leaper getting off the ground and pairing that with some good timing to alter shots inside the paint gives him great upside as an interior defender.

Versatile Defenders

Ausar Thompson is one of the best defensive prospects in the entire draft. He has the quickness and ability to defend ball-handlers at a high level while also switching onto forwards due to his size and length. He’s a stock monster as he lives in the passing lanes and is the best shot-blocking guard prospect I’ve ever seen due to his incredible vertical pop, instincts, and timing. He reminds a lot of scouts of Andrew Wiggins.

Jarace Walker has an NBA ready frame as he currently weighs in at 240 pounds and stands at 6-foot-8 with a 7-foot-2 wingspan. His NBA ready physical tools and all-around athleticism gives him some ridiculous defensive upside. He can switch onto quicker guards late in the shot clock and has the ability to defend two through four at a high level. Walker doesn’t flip his hips incredibly quick but solid enough to guard out in space.

Rayan Rupert is one of the most intriguing defensive prospects in the entire draft. He’s a wing defender that stands at 6-foot-6 but has an unreal 7-foot-3 wingspan which gives him the upside to be an elite defensive playmaker in the passing lanes and on the ball. He has the ability to defend up and down any given lineup. He has drawn a ton of comparisons to an elite NBA defender in Matisse Thybulle.

It is a good article but I am not sure why they didn't mention Noah Clowney as a versatile defender. He can defend in the paint and switch out onto to shooters and has some good numbers to back it up: (3.8 DBPM; 3.4 BLK%).

Kevin McCullar (4.6 DBPM; 3.7 STL%) is a huge miss on the list as he is going to be a a Thybulle type of defender. Same with Jaylen Clark having special potential on that end (5.1 STL%).

I like the Thompsons but saying they such special defenders against high school aged competition is a bit of a stretch for any scout.