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Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0

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Dennis 37
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#881 » by Dennis 37 » Fri Jan 3, 2025 4:07 am

Boogie! wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:
Dennis 37 wrote:
If the FO is betting on upside you don't offer 2 plus player option. The player option would only be picked up if the player didn’t develop. So if he developed he would be even more expensive to resign after year 2. If you bet upside you offer 4 years. Or 3 plus team option. Offering 2+1 means you expect to fail.


2+1 is a prove it contract. We've handed many of these out during our franchise history. You don't pay more for term.

Boogie! wrote:Norman Powell was traded twice… he could be considered a value contract as well, it wasn’t some albatross… meanwhile we lost Trent for nothing and he’s declined…

And then there’s the fact that it was an obvious talent downgrade when the trade happened simply because again if you actually watch them play and understand their skill sets you’d see that Trent would never be able to do the things Powell does and therefore would limit his potential.


He was only traded once on that contract. And it was a complete salary dump: Norm and Covington for Eric Bledsoe, Justise Winslow, Keon Johnson and a '25 2nd.

The rest of the post is irrelevant to the original topic of the contract. GTJ netted to the downside while Norm netted to the upside. The FO lost that bet. Norm was 28 years old while Trent was 22 years old. They sold an older vet for a younger player, believing he had much more untapped upside. They got that wrong, but I don't understand how you can't see the rationale. 22 year old Norm is nowhere the prospect that 22 year old GTJ was.


That last line is why I constantly criticize people’s ability to evaluate players…


The thing is, if GTJ was such a superior prospect you lock him up for 4 years. Otherwise what was the point? He becomes great and at the end if the 2nd year he opts out and is too expensive. If you're not willing to lock him up, then you don't believe he is any better than Norm.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#882 » by Tripod » Fri Jan 3, 2025 4:11 am

Maybe, just maybe, we don't have all the information on every move ever made.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#883 » by Dennis 37 » Fri Jan 3, 2025 4:11 am

ForeverTFC wrote:
Boogie! wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:
2+1 is a prove it contract. We've handed many of these out during our franchise history. You don't pay more for term.



He was only traded once on that contract. And it was a complete salary dump: Norm and Covington for Eric Bledsoe, Justise Winslow, Keon Johnson and a '25 2nd.

The rest of the post is irrelevant to the original topic of the contract. GTJ netted to the downside while Norm netted to the upside. The FO lost that bet. Norm was 28 years old while Trent was 22 years old. They sold an older vet for a younger player, believing he had much more untapped upside. They got that wrong, but I don't understand how you can't see the rationale. 22 year old Norm is nowhere the prospect that 22 year old GTJ was.


That last line is why I constantly criticize people’s ability to evaluate players…


You should be working in a front office then. Your talents are going to waste.


Definitely in scouting at least.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#884 » by ___Rand___ » Fri Jan 3, 2025 5:43 am

Sixers are an embarassment and Nurse is just having a very tough time.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#885 » by refshateRaps » Sat Jan 4, 2025 5:32 pm

___Rand___ wrote:Sixers are an embarassment and Nurse is just having a very tough time.


6-4 in last 10

Have you see our team since Kawai ran off? Masai is the embarrassment, Sixers are fine
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#886 » by D.Brasco » Wed Jan 8, 2025 9:15 pm

I sincerely hope Kahwi's family is safe, but I literally remember people were being shamed for saying one of the arguments for him to stay in Toronto is less risks of natural disasters than Cali.

Read on Twitter
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#887 » by Jstock12 » Fri Jan 10, 2025 9:00 pm

Vezenkov pretty close to breaking the Euroleague single game scoring record. He's at 45 points (18/20 FG, 8/10 3PT), 7 rebounds, 2 assists with 2 minutes to go.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#888 » by Tripod » Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:57 pm

Rough games.

OG 4 pts on 2-8 shooting, 0-5 from 3
Precious 2 pts and -16 in 5:48
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#889 » by Mr Fitzhume » Sat Jan 11, 2025 2:41 pm

Jstock12 wrote:Vezenkov pretty close to breaking the Euroleague single game scoring record. He's at 45 points (18/20 FG, 8/10 3PT), 7 rebounds, 2 assists with 2 minutes to go.


He made a pretty good decision choosing Europe. From an NBA bench scrub to the most valuable player in the Euroleague, that’s something.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#890 » by Jstock12 » Sat Jan 11, 2025 2:46 pm

Mr Fitzhume wrote:
Jstock12 wrote:Vezenkov pretty close to breaking the Euroleague single game scoring record. He's at 45 points (18/20 FG, 8/10 3PT), 7 rebounds, 2 assists with 2 minutes to go.


He made a pretty good decision choosing Europe. From an NBA bench scrub to the most valuable player in the Euroleague, that’s something.

For sure. I'd say he could have become a legitimate role player in the NBA, but chose happiness / quality of life and becoming a legend rather than getting sporadic minutes and potentially being a journeyman in the NBA. Similar to the Nikola Mirotic situation, choosing to live in places like Barcelona/Milan rather than Milwaukee or Detroit (lol).
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#891 » by Drygon » Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:23 am

Tacoma wrote:Reflections on Damon Stoudamire leaving The Raptors In 1998, his regret about what happened and what could've been...



Credit to Damon for this admission. It would've been fitting to hear similar from Vince.


Vince has nothing to apologize for :lol:

The Toronto front office (specifically Rob Babcock, Peddle) set back Raptors for years with awful decisions.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#892 » by Tripod » Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:18 am

Man OG is struggling lately....except against the Raps.

27 pts vs Raps
34 pts TOTAL in his other 4 games in his last 5

4-6 from 3 vs Raps
1-15 from 3 in those other 4 games

7-8 for FT's vs Raps
1-3 for FT's in those other 4 games
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#893 » by HumbleRen » Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:52 am

Tripod wrote:Man OG is struggling lately....except against the Raps.

27 pts vs Raps :o
34 pts TOTAL in his other 4 games in his last 5

4-6 from 3 vs Raps
1-15 from 3 in those other 4 games

7-8 for FT's vs Raps
1-3 for FT's in those other 4 games


Read on Twitter
?s=46

:o
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#894 » by Kingsway_fan » Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:54 am

Drygon wrote:
Tacoma wrote:Reflections on Damon Stoudamire leaving The Raptors In 1998, his regret about what happened and what could've been...



Credit to Damon for this admission. It would've been fitting to hear similar from Vince.


Vince has nothing to apologize for :lol:

The Toronto front office (specifically Rob Babcock, Peddle) set back Raptors for years with awful decisions.



100 percent correct.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#895 » by Tripod » Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:01 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
Tripod wrote:Man OG is struggling lately....except against the Raps.

27 pts vs Raps :o
34 pts TOTAL in his other 4 games in his last 5

4-6 from 3 vs Raps
1-15 from 3 in those other 4 games

7-8 for FT's vs Raps
1-3 for FT's in those other 4 games


Read on Twitter
?s=46

:o

Oh wow.

Maybe OG still wants to be a higher scoring option even after getting money instead of just a defense 1st guy.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#896 » by HumbleRen » Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:05 pm

Tripod wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Tripod wrote:Man OG is struggling lately....except against the Raps.

27 pts vs Raps :o
34 pts TOTAL in his other 4 games in his last 5

4-6 from 3 vs Raps
1-15 from 3 in those other 4 games

7-8 for FT's vs Raps
1-3 for FT's in those other 4 games


Read on Twitter
?s=46

:o

Oh wow.

Maybe OG still wants to be a higher scoring option even after getting money instead of just a defense 1st guy.


I think he’s just more exhausted than anything else. Thibs got him working like a dog lol.

Definitely been disappointing for a max player though. Think Thibs needs to play his bench more.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#897 » by Tripod » Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:07 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
Tripod wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46

:o

Oh wow.

Maybe OG still wants to be a higher scoring option even after getting money instead of just a defense 1st guy.


I think he’s just more exhausted than anything else. Thibs got him working like a dog lol.

Definitely been disappointing for a max player though. Think Thibs needs to play his bench more.

Yeah Thibs is a psycho
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#898 » by AkelaLoneWolf » Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:17 pm

Tripod wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Tripod wrote:Man OG is struggling lately....except against the Raps.

27 pts vs Raps :o
34 pts TOTAL in his other 4 games in his last 5

4-6 from 3 vs Raps
1-15 from 3 in those other 4 games

7-8 for FT's vs Raps
1-3 for FT's in those other 4 games


Read on Twitter
?s=46

:o

Oh wow.

Maybe OG still wants to be a higher scoring option even after getting money instead of just a defense 1st guy.

It’s just classic scapegoating when team is struggling. Given his contract and role it was inevitable
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#899 » by raptorforlife88 » Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:36 pm

Yeah interesting to see on their subreddit some complaints about OG's play relative to his contract. He's been good, but has shot the ball inconsistently, and I see people saying he may not be thrilled about his role in the offense (which who knows if that's true, he's already getting paid).

On the whole he's not producing much differently than he did here, he probably had one or two somewhat more effective seasons here. He's a guy who's great defensively but has otherwise capped out his ability on the offensive end. Valuable, but an easy scapegoat cause of the money he's making if there are any issues happening.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0 

Post#900 » by WaltFrazier » Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:54 am

raptorforlife88 wrote:Yeah interesting to see on their subreddit some complaints about OG's play relative to his contract. He's been good, but has shot the ball inconsistently, and I see people saying he may not be thrilled about his role in the offense (which who knows if that's true, he's already getting paid).

On the whole he's not producing much differently than he did here, he probably had one or two somewhat more effective seasons here. He's a guy who's great defensively but has otherwise capped out his ability on the offensive end. Valuable, but an easy scapegoat cause of the money he's making if there are any issues happening.

All the speculation about internal issues and egos is just that.

What I'm seeing is Brunson and KAT are not good defenders, so Thibs defensive scheme isn't going well because it relies on a rim protector. It's hard for OG and Mikal to thrive in a team D with too many flaws. Even Hart is a great hustle guy but not a great one on one defender, he gets beat a lot. On the two plays that sealed the game Hardaway screened for Cade, Brunson and Bridges doubled Cade, Hart ran at Hardaway foolishly and Beasley got the swing pass for wide open dagger threes. Same exact play back to back. OG was on Tobias who stayed in the corner away from the play. I did think Thibs should have have OG on Cade instead of Cunningham, where he would have been disruptive.

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I never watched Thibs teams that much till the OG trade a year ago. When he had Hartenstein last year, and Mitchell Robinson in the late season briefly, his defense was really effective. Most Knicks board posters this year are saying his scheme protects the paint too much and gives up threes freely, and he can't adjust his style to suit the personnel, ie KAT not being a rim protector.
There goes my hero. Watch him as he goes.

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