DreamTeam09 wrote:Apparently a lot of prospects had **** summer leagues this year looking at the #s & %s - 2nd yr prospects included
Summer league performance has always been a useless predictor of talent.
Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, Morris_Shatford, 7 Footer
DreamTeam09 wrote:Apparently a lot of prospects had **** summer leagues this year looking at the #s & %s - 2nd yr prospects included
Thaddy wrote:billy_hoyle wrote:OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Imagine if we picked Fillipowski at 31 and signed him to a 12m deal. I bet this board would go absolutely postal. Raps took a Moses Moody like player with this selection and they got Mitchell from the "stacked" Scottie draft for paying his expiring salary. Mitchell was in Rico Runs previously scrimming against Paskal and the like. I like what we are doing but Raps turned a corner with Casey when they had young versions of Demar and Lowry. Lowry was huge in flipping Raptors fortunes even if back then he looked like a tiny wide scoring combo guard with much coach killing attitude. Casey's twin point guard ball put alot of pressure on defences and we did this never having a 3 and d small forward. Darko earns his money now as development coach. Can appreciate what Casey did looking back. Can even appreciate Hansborough looking back LOL. Can twin point guards be far away?
Lowry should be on our staff.
Postal? That's 3m a year. What are we paying Mogbo like 2m a season? You actually think people care about $1m of salary? That's less than 1% of the cap.
Walter and Moody are very different players. Walter was a top 5 pick because of the creation skills he showed in high school. He's going to be better than Moody right away, and if we give him a few weeks in the GLeague to work on isolation ability he'll transition in well. Walter's ability to get to the FT line and get his own offense going despite the team being out of sync is a great sign.
Mogbo is better than Filipowski. He's got the same standing reach as Bam despite being a guy who use to be a PG early on in high school. Mogbo has a lot of interesting points in his player build. Center-like reach, guard-like playing making skills, and he's supposedly getting use to his new body. That's a better gamble than Filipowski who's like a worse version of Aldama.
Raps in 4 wrote:DreamTeam09 wrote:Apparently a lot of prospects had **** summer leagues this year looking at the #s & %s - 2nd yr prospects included
Summer league performance has always been a useless predictor of talent.
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Santi Aldama had a 7.7 bpm vs. -3.47 SOS as a 20 year old and Flip had an 11.1 bpm vs. 8.36 SOS as a 20 year old and i'm supposed to believe flip is a worse version of santi aldama?
Thaddy wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Santi Aldama had a 7.7 bpm vs. -3.47 SOS as a 20 year old and Flip had an 11.1 bpm vs. 8.36 SOS as a 20 year old and i'm supposed to believe flip is a worse version of santi aldama?
Mogbo had a 12.9 BPM.
Mogbo has 57 dunks, good for 3.16 per game. For some comparison, Obi Toppin has 3.71 dunks per game his sophomore year, Bam had 2.76 per game in his freshman year.
He also has a 67.8% TS. Mogbo has a 17.3 offensive rebounding %, good for the 65th best % since 2008. He has a 31.5% defensive rebounding %, good for 37th best since 2008. He has a 22.8% ast%, which is good for 105th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller, and a 1.8 ast/TO ratio. He has a 3.7% steal %, good for 27th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller. He is also shooting 74% from the line, so there is some hope for some shooting potential.
Mogbo led the NCAA in win shares per 40 minutes with .35. (2nd is Edey with .337, a distant 3rd at .298) He leads the WCC in offensive, defensive, and total win shares. He leads the WCC in offensive and total BPM, and is 2nd in defensive BPM. He leads the WCC in block %, stl%, defensive, offensive, and total rebound %, PER, FGs, TS, and eFG.
PoundTown wrote:Thaddy wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Santi Aldama had a 7.7 bpm vs. -3.47 SOS as a 20 year old and Flip had an 11.1 bpm vs. 8.36 SOS as a 20 year old and i'm supposed to believe flip is a worse version of santi aldama?
Mogbo had a 12.9 BPM.
Mogbo has 57 dunks, good for 3.16 per game. For some comparison, Obi Toppin has 3.71 dunks per game his sophomore year, Bam had 2.76 per game in his freshman year.
He also has a 67.8% TS. Mogbo has a 17.3 offensive rebounding %, good for the 65th best % since 2008. He has a 31.5% defensive rebounding %, good for 37th best since 2008. He has a 22.8% ast%, which is good for 105th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller, and a 1.8 ast/TO ratio. He has a 3.7% steal %, good for 27th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller. He is also shooting 74% from the line, so there is some hope for some shooting potential.
Mogbo led the NCAA in win shares per 40 minutes with .35. (2nd is Edey with .337, a distant 3rd at .298) He leads the WCC in offensive, defensive, and total win shares. He leads the WCC in offensive and total BPM, and is 2nd in defensive BPM. He leads the WCC in block %, stl%, defensive, offensive, and total rebound %, PER, FGs, TS, and eFG.
There's a lot to like there, agreed, and not trying to downplay it, but in a smaller and weaker conference those things are easier to achieve. Hopefully, Mogbo turns out to be a great glue guy, but I still think his two pathways to success are small ball C or more ideally, developing a jumper and being perimeter player. I think if a team wants to put the weakest defensive player on him, he could be a good pick and roll guy now, so the ball handler then gets switched onto the weakest defender or Mogbo gets to roll properly and/or attack a smaller player off the bounce and just drive right through them with ability to pass it when help comes is another skll that could potentially be exploited. Once again, all this becomes way easier when team's inevitably dare him to shoot the 3. Even him shooting it as well as Pascal would be a huge win for his development. It seems as though, if he can do that, he's a definite rotation piece.
ash_k wrote:LoveMyRaps wrote:ash_k wrote:Based on what? that elusive RealGMdream of tanking? and somehow expecting 3 young 20pt- scorers/all-star to bow down to an unproven rookie teenager like a Cooper Flag(he aint Wemby)? It is not going to happen.
Due a bit of due diligence. The lottery is stacked with star-potential prospects.
We're pretty much a lock to finish in the bottom 10 of the standings.
Our bench is non-existent. Doesn't matter how well the starting lineup plays, our bench will consistently lose us games.
Due your due diligence, there is no WEMBY in that draft. (the point being, established young players like ours could potentially hand over the keys(if you will) to a generational player like that). But we already have an MVP type on the roster.
We already have 2 more potentials All-stars on the team; there is no a room for a 4th one/20 point scorer. Unless you are wishing for more injuries. There is too much talent in our young Big 4 not to be 'at worst' a play-in team(upwards from there). If that Bulls team could win 39 games without a bench&Vucevic with some historically bad ratings I hear and big injuries to 2 starters then our BIG4 with proven NBAers on the bench can certainly match that.
You are only wishing the bench is non-existent with proven NBA players like Bruce Brown, KO and Boucher with Proven backup Point Guard from a winning team like Davion Mitchell. Then at some point, it is either that coach tattooed as a "player-developer" actually develops and enhances our players or NOT (Gradey, Ochai,J'KW, Shead and Mogbo).
Like many others, y'all keep posting like a roster is Detroit Pistons'/Charlotte Hornets'.
S.W.A.N wrote:ash_k wrote:LoveMyRaps wrote:
Due a bit of due diligence. The lottery is stacked with star-potential prospects.
We're pretty much a lock to finish in the bottom 10 of the standings.
Our bench is non-existent. Doesn't matter how well the starting lineup plays, our bench will consistently lose us games.
Due your due diligence, there is no WEMBY in that draft. (the point being, established young players like ours could potentially hand over the keys(if you will) to a generational player like that). But we already have an MVP type on the roster.
We already have 2 more potentials All-stars on the team; there is no a room for a 4th one/20 point scorer. Unless you are wishing for more injuries. There is too much talent in our young Big 4 not to be 'at worst' a play-in team(upwards from there). If that Bulls team could win 39 games without a bench&Vucevic with some historically bad ratings I hear and big injuries to 2 starters then our BIG4 with proven NBAers on the bench can certainly match that.
You are only wishing the bench is non-existent with proven NBA players like Bruce Brown, KO and Boucher with Proven backup Point Guard from a winning team like Davion Mitchell. Then at some point, it is either that coach tattooed as a "player-developer" actually develops and enhances our players or NOT (Gradey, Ochai,J'KW, Shead and Mogbo).
Like many others, y'all keep posting like a roster is Detroit Pistons'/Charlotte Hornets'.
Man I thought I was a homer. You are taking the rosy glasses to another level.
First of all. More talent is almost always better (fit chemistry etc can skew results) so wanting a super talent like Cooper isn't bad. He's not Wemby, he's more like a AK47+
And of the two "potential all-stars" you mentioned. Neither of them is a plus defender. So adding a two-way 'star' like a Flagg would be a massive improvement to our roster.
As for the standings..
Bulls, Hawks and Hornets are all likely going to finish above us this year. Hell, I think the Portland Trailblazers might win more games than us. We are absolutely more likely to get a top 10 pick this year than not. (I'm guessing we land around the 7th pick and then lotto ball luck to get us all the way to the top)
Dont' get me wrong. I love Scottie, and think that Quickley and RJ might prove to be above average starters/even all-stars if they ever show that they can play defense... But we absolutely need more talent to get to the upper echelons of the NBA once more. We aren't in the make a run for the playoffs stage of our development yet. We're in the our starters have barely played together and we have a whole bunch of rookies and new players that haven't proven anything yet stage.
It is a great spot to be in.
PoundTown wrote:S.W.A.N wrote:ash_k wrote:Due your due diligence, there is no WEMBY in that draft. (the point being, established young players like ours could potentially hand over the keys(if you will) to a generational player like that). But we already have an MVP type on the roster.
We already have 2 more potentials All-stars on the team; there is no a room for a 4th one/20 point scorer. Unless you are wishing for more injuries. There is too much talent in our young Big 4 not to be 'at worst' a play-in team(upwards from there). If that Bulls team could win 39 games without a bench&Vucevic with some historically bad ratings I hear and big injuries to 2 starters then our BIG4 with proven NBAers on the bench can certainly match that.
You are only wishing the bench is non-existent with proven NBA players like Bruce Brown, KO and Boucher with Proven backup Point Guard from a winning team like Davion Mitchell. Then at some point, it is either that coach tattooed as a "player-developer" actually develops and enhances our players or NOT (Gradey, Ochai,J'KW, Shead and Mogbo).
Like many others, y'all keep posting like a roster is Detroit Pistons'/Charlotte Hornets'.
Man I thought I was a homer. You are taking the rosy glasses to another level.
First of all. More talent is almost always better (fit chemistry etc can skew results) so wanting a super talent like Cooper isn't bad. He's not Wemby, he's more like a AK47+
And of the two "potential all-stars" you mentioned. Neither of them is a plus defender. So adding a two-way 'star' like a Flagg would be a massive improvement to our roster.
As for the standings..
Bulls, Hawks and Hornets are all likely going to finish above us this year. Hell, I think the Portland Trailblazers might win more games than us. We are absolutely more likely to get a top 10 pick this year than not. (I'm guessing we land around the 7th pick and then lotto ball luck to get us all the way to the top)
Dont' get me wrong. I love Scottie, and think that Quickley and RJ might prove to be above average starters/even all-stars if they ever show that they can play defense... But we absolutely need more talent to get to the upper echelons of the NBA once more. We aren't in the make a run for the playoffs stage of our development yet. We're in the our starters have barely played together and we have a whole bunch of rookies and new players that haven't proven anything yet stage.
It is a great spot to be in.
AK47 with a much better shot would be an excellent piece to add to this roster. Flagg would really be great. We need some lotto luck.
Dream season: Play-in loss while developing young talent, win the lotto ala this year's Hawks. Sorry, the former competitive athlete in me just can't cheer for losses; not how I'm wired. I see the logic of the tankers, and I think the first half season is going to naturally bring us to that point, but I'd be thrilled if this core was much better than people are thinking they will be. Is it a bit optimistic? Maybe, but I've always loved to win. I truthfully am not one of those people that hates losing more than I like winning, but I just really enjoy winning and the feeling of glory I got from it, and I really enjoyed watching the Raptors win. Remember when Swirksy used to say "Raptors win, Raptors win, Raptors win"... loved that. We didn't win a championship by tanking, just sayin.
Thaddy wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Santi Aldama had a 7.7 bpm vs. -3.47 SOS as a 20 year old and Flip had an 11.1 bpm vs. 8.36 SOS as a 20 year old and i'm supposed to believe flip is a worse version of santi aldama?
Mogbo had a 12.9 BPM.
Mogbo has 57 dunks, good for 3.16 per game. For some comparison, Obi Toppin has 3.71 dunks per game his sophomore year, Bam had 2.76 per game in his freshman year.
He also has a 67.8% TS. Mogbo has a 17.3 offensive rebounding %, good for the 65th best % since 2008. He has a 31.5% defensive rebounding %, good for 37th best since 2008. He has a 22.8% ast%, which is good for 105th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller, and a 1.8 ast/TO ratio. He has a 3.7% steal %, good for 27th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller. He is also shooting 74% from the line, so there is some hope for some shooting potential.
Mogbo led the NCAA in win shares per 40 minutes with .35. (2nd is Edey with .337, a distant 3rd at .298) He leads the WCC in offensive, defensive, and total win shares. He leads the WCC in offensive and total BPM, and is 2nd in defensive BPM. He leads the WCC in block %, stl%, defensive, offensive, and total rebound %, PER, FGs, TS, and eFG.
Thaddy wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Santi Aldama had a 7.7 bpm vs. -3.47 SOS as a 20 year old and Flip had an 11.1 bpm vs. 8.36 SOS as a 20 year old and i'm supposed to believe flip is a worse version of santi aldama?
Mogbo had a 12.9 BPM.
Mogbo has 57 dunks, good for 3.16 per game. For some comparison, Obi Toppin has 3.71 dunks per game his sophomore year, Bam had 2.76 per game in his freshman year.
He also has a 67.8% TS. Mogbo has a 17.3 offensive rebounding %, good for the 65th best % since 2008. He has a 31.5% defensive rebounding %, good for 37th best since 2008. He has a 22.8% ast%, which is good for 105th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller, and a 1.8 ast/TO ratio. He has a 3.7% steal %, good for 27th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller. He is also shooting 74% from the line, so there is some hope for some shooting potential.
Mogbo led the NCAA in win shares per 40 minutes with .35. (2nd is Edey with .337, a distant 3rd at .298) He leads the WCC in offensive, defensive, and total win shares. He leads the WCC in offensive and total BPM, and is 2nd in defensive BPM. He leads the WCC in block %, stl%, defensive, offensive, and total rebound %, PER, FGs, TS, and eFG.
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Thaddy wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Santi Aldama had a 7.7 bpm vs. -3.47 SOS as a 20 year old and Flip had an 11.1 bpm vs. 8.36 SOS as a 20 year old and i'm supposed to believe flip is a worse version of santi aldama?
Mogbo had a 12.9 BPM.
Mogbo has 57 dunks, good for 3.16 per game. For some comparison, Obi Toppin has 3.71 dunks per game his sophomore year, Bam had 2.76 per game in his freshman year.
He also has a 67.8% TS. Mogbo has a 17.3 offensive rebounding %, good for the 65th best % since 2008. He has a 31.5% defensive rebounding %, good for 37th best since 2008. He has a 22.8% ast%, which is good for 105th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller, and a 1.8 ast/TO ratio. He has a 3.7% steal %, good for 27th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller. He is also shooting 74% from the line, so there is some hope for some shooting potential.
Mogbo led the NCAA in win shares per 40 minutes with .35. (2nd is Edey with .337, a distant 3rd at .298) He leads the WCC in offensive, defensive, and total win shares. He leads the WCC in offensive and total BPM, and is 2nd in defensive BPM. He leads the WCC in block %, stl%, defensive, offensive, and total rebound %, PER, FGs, TS, and eFG.
SOS and age means everything when bringing up production, you cannot compare Mogbo's BPM with Flip's and assume they are similarly efficient producers or on a similar level of their growth curve. I'm sure you understand this Thaddy.
Thaddy wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Thaddy wrote:Mogbo had a 12.9 BPM.
Mogbo has 57 dunks, good for 3.16 per game. For some comparison, Obi Toppin has 3.71 dunks per game his sophomore year, Bam had 2.76 per game in his freshman year.
He also has a 67.8% TS. Mogbo has a 17.3 offensive rebounding %, good for the 65th best % since 2008. He has a 31.5% defensive rebounding %, good for 37th best since 2008. He has a 22.8% ast%, which is good for 105th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller, and a 1.8 ast/TO ratio. He has a 3.7% steal %, good for 27th best since 2008 for players 6'8 or taller. He is also shooting 74% from the line, so there is some hope for some shooting potential.
Mogbo led the NCAA in win shares per 40 minutes with .35. (2nd is Edey with .337, a distant 3rd at .298) He leads the WCC in offensive, defensive, and total win shares. He leads the WCC in offensive and total BPM, and is 2nd in defensive BPM. He leads the WCC in block %, stl%, defensive, offensive, and total rebound %, PER, FGs, TS, and eFG.
SOS and age means everything when bringing up production, you cannot compare Mogbo's BPM with Flip's and assume they are similarly efficient producers or on a similar level of their growth curve. I'm sure you understand this Thaddy.
One guy had a massive growth spurt. The other's been the same size since 10th grade. In terms of growth curve Mogbo has shown consistent improvement whereas Filipowski has been the same from his freshmen to sophomore season.
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Thaddy wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:
SOS and age means everything when bringing up production, you cannot compare Mogbo's BPM with Flip's and assume they are similarly efficient producers or on a similar level of their growth curve. I'm sure you understand this Thaddy.
One guy had a massive growth spurt. The other's been the same size since 10th grade. In terms of growth curve Mogbo has shown consistent improvement whereas Filipowski has been the same from his freshmen to sophomore season.
I think it was pretty evident but I'll just put it out there that I am in no way referring to physical growth but growth in ability as a basketball player.
YelloC wrote:Mogbo with a 3 could have an Igoudala like impact. Without looking at their measurements, they seem very similar buildwise and in the intangibles department.
DreamTeam09 wrote:YelloC wrote:Mogbo with a 3 could have an Igoudala like impact. Without looking at their measurements, they seem very similar buildwise and in the intangibles department.
No way, Mogbo is way wider than Iggy. Iggy looks like a legit 3! Mogbo looks like a PF. Not arguing impact or intangibles, just body size