Tank World Order V (Rise of the Phoenix)

[DelAbbot]

Its about that time in the season where you have to be making calls about Yak/Boucher/Brown and trying to move them especially Yak since hes playing decent and is not injured yet....We need to cash in while we can...Many teams could use a player like him.

"We need Yak to develop Dick, Barnes & IQ. Who else can set good screens that will determine those guys' career development"

[DelAbbot]

Imagine if we didn't trade for Poeltl in a vain attempt to make the playoffs. We would have had a higher pick in 2023, retained our 2024 pick, and be in a similar position currently in 2025 draft.

The Poetl trade was awful but getting Grady out of it who looks like the 2nd best rookie in the class so far makes it less bad. Zach Edey as a building block instead of Poetl would have been amazing tho.

What does Poeltl trade (2024 FRP) have anything to do with getting Grady Dick (2023 FRP)

[Stromile12]

Tank you RJ

[Appostis]

we already know what a semi healthy roster looks like. the ceiling isn't high enough.

Do we?

Missing 2 starters.

Why do you want to find out if a healthy roster is play-in or not? it's below mediocrity

Not saying I want to. I think this team as fully healthy is a play in/first round exit material.

I'm just saying it takes a fairly dense individual to say the team has played anywhere near healthy.

[Ell Curry]

Imagine if we didn't trade for Poeltl in a vain attempt to make the playoffs. We would have had a higher pick in 2023, retained our 2024 pick, and be in a similar position currently in 2025 draft.

Doesn't this just mean:

2023 - Maybe we still draft Grady Dick even if we pick a few spots higher. There were other good players in the draft, but unless we get a top 2 pick, I'm not sure we get much better? Amen Thompson is good, but he can't shoot at all, so we'll see how that goes. Lively looks like a great pick, but if the simplest way to compare players is what they'll get paid in the market, he's probably like a 20M type of guy and Grady seems like he'll get there based on his start to this season.

2024 - The big one, as if we'd still made the trades we did and pivoted to a tank, we could probably have drafted a young, cheap center in Clingan who I think will be better than Poeltl on D and that just matters more than offensive play at the position. But maybe we don't make the trades or just move one or 2 of the 3 guys? Lots of variables here. So far it appears to be the very weak draft everyone said it was, so we're probably talking about a 6th man or 4th/5th kind of starter here.

2025 - We probably get a better draft slot via tanking, but so far so good on that score anyways.

So yeah, I think it was definitely a bad trade, but in the end it seems unclear it will actually cost us anything, really. We could probably trade Poeltl right now for a late first rounder and say 10M in bad money next year (which likely won't matter, we'll be over the cap and under the tax regardless) and that late first probably doesn't have a big difference projection-wise from the pick we would have had in 2024.

The only way I see it being a huge problem is if it costs us Flagg this year or we could have gotten a top 2 pick last year and ended up with Wemby (in which case it was a cataclysmic trade) or Brandon Miller (good wings don't grow on trees). And math-wise that's at worse us going from 7.5% up to 14% at getting the Wemby pick (so a 6.5% difference, 1 in 15 or 16 chance) and probably a similar odds of getting Miller at #2 and let's tack on a 2-3% for the tank this year.

So yeah, if we assume we still make the Siakam/OG deals and let Van Vleet go (otherwise we're getting into a whole other debate), odds are it cost us having Clingan, Edey or another rookie in a weak 2024 class. Save like 12M at the position and more importantly get younger to closer match Barnes and what will hopefully be a very good 2025 rookie's timelines. That sucks. If Masai can't find a good center to be the successor at the spot by the time Poeltl expires (Chomche has great speed and is normal sized for a center, but obviously so raw at actually playing that odds are against him) it will matter more, and we'll probably have to burn a first down the line to get a starting center, or use a pick we could have used on another position.

TLDR: Bad trade, probably didn't kill us. Ranked well behind picking Flynn over Bane and probably right around the "surely we could have trade Van Vleet at the deadline for a pick, why didn't we?" move in terms of lost value, which I'd put at around a pick in the mid-late teens in a normal draft, whereas the Bane pick for example is like a 4 first round picks level mistake (what it feels like would be a fair deal to acquire him if Memphis wanted to save money and ship him to us, for example, for Bruce Brown and Boucher's expiring and picks. Maybe it's 5? 3 seems low.).

[Chandan]

who has more bust potential, cooper or ace?

[Scase]

who has more bust potential, cooper or ace?

Has to be ace, he's just a pure scorer, Flagg looks like a do it all unicorn sized player. Seems harder for them to **** the bed in the modern NBA.

[Chandan]

who has more bust potential, cooper or ace?

Has to be ace, he's just a pure scorer, Flagg looks like a do it all unicorn sized player. Seems harder for them to **** the bed in the modern NBA.

Is cooper really THAT special athletically?
someone said shorter Giannas with a jumpshot. but isnt that KIND OF Scottie.

[Duffman100]

At this point, I'm on board lol.

[Psubs]

who has more bust potential, cooper or ace?

Has to be ace, he's just a pure scorer, Flagg looks like a do it all unicorn sized player. Seems harder for them to **** the bed in the modern NBA.

Is cooper really THAT special athletically?
someone said shorter Giannas with a jumpshot. but isnt that KIND OF Scottie.

I would say Blake Griffin.


Is Tre Johnson's floor, Joe Johnson?


Pistons beat Miami
Blazers beat Minnesota
Atlanta beat Boston (no Trae Young but Dyson Daniels exploded)

[MiamiSPX]

Remaining games this month:

vs DET
@ Boston
vs Indiana
vs Minnesota
@ Cleveland
@ Detroit
@ New Orleans
@ Miami

2 wins in there at the most. One of the DET games, and maybe the NO game as they are really banged up.

[DelAbbot]

who has more bust potential, cooper or ace?

Has to be ace, he's just a pure scorer, Flagg looks like a do it all unicorn sized player. Seems harder for them to **** the bed in the modern NBA.

Is cooper really THAT special athletically?
someone said shorter Giannas with a jumpshot. but isnt that KIND OF Scottie.

That's closer to Banchero. Scottie is skinnier Jokic without the 3pt shot

[NinjaBro]

who has more bust potential, cooper or ace?

Ace 100% has more bust potential. It's almost guaranteed.

[Syd-TK3]

Its about that time in the season where you have to be making calls about Yak/Boucher/Brown and trying to move them especially Yak since hes playing decent and is not injured yet....We need to cash in while we can...Many teams could use a player like him.

"We need Yak to develop Dick, Barnes & IQ. Who else can set good screens that will determine those guys' career development"

Sean Woodley is that you?

[Scase]

who has more bust potential, cooper or ace?

Has to be ace, he's just a pure scorer, Flagg looks like a do it all unicorn sized player. Seems harder for them to **** the bed in the modern NBA.

Is cooper really THAT special athletically?
someone said shorter Giannas with a jumpshot. but isnt that KIND OF Scottie.

Definitely doesn't have top tier athleticism, but hes no slouch.

[Phezmo123]

Another 3+ weeks without Scottie.

Need to maximize losses rn, get a head start on the tank.

Then mid-season maybe we trade some veterans

[YogurtProducer]

At this point, I'm on board lol.

Hard not to be when all the best players are on track to miss another 3+ weeks

Might as well just lean fully in at this point. My guess is they "try" for a few weeks when Kelly and Brown get healthy and then trade them ASAP after that.

Kinda impossible to climb out of what might be (at best) a 4-16 or 5-15 hole.

[MiamiSPX]

Another 3+ weeks without Scottie.

Is this something that was just reported?

[Phezmo123]

At this point, I'm on board lol.

Hard not to be when all the best players are on track to miss another 3+ weeks

Might as well just lean fully in at this point. My guess is they "try" for a few weeks when Kelly and Brown get healthy and then trade them ASAP after that.

Kinda impossible to climb out of what might be (at best) a 4-16 or 5-15 hole.

Masai/Bobby are smart enough to pivot mid-season if we stay at this rate

Cooper Flagg seems like a rare do-it-all type player. All-NBA defense with Michael Beasley offense is a top-10 player in the game in his prime.

[Ell Curry]

who has more bust potential, cooper or ace?

Has to be ace, he's just a pure scorer, Flagg looks like a do it all unicorn sized player. Seems harder for them to **** the bed in the modern NBA.

Is cooper really THAT special athletically?
someone said shorter Giannas with a jumpshot. but isnt that KIND OF Scottie.

I'm not sure who to compare him to. He doesn't look similar to Giannis or Scottie really. I guess there's some Giannis on defence, but his handle and intelligence look like they'll be better than either guy. He's just not as massive as Giannis covering ground with his stride (though he's 17, so who knows if he's totally done growing), don't think he'll play center, and he's got a better handle and a bag unlike Giannis. Way more fluid than Scottie, and more comfortable going to get a bucket.

He looks like the perfect 3/4 (they're fairly interchangeable these days) for the modern NBA. Ran point basically last night and is a serious rebounder. Can get to his spot fairly easily and pull-up okay (looked better from say 10 feet than 15, but again he's 17). Maybe like Jimmy Butler if he was 6'9 and his shot was more reliable, which is absolutely a top 5-10 player in the league. So I guess I would put his over/under line similar to Tatum, in that he should be more of a playmaker on D, a similarly great, likely even better rebounder, but reads the game a bit better, so maybe he'll be 2-3 years ahead of Tatum development-wise. What if Franz Wagner was the 3rd-4th best player in the league because he was 20% better at everything? That sort of thing.