Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 8

[Al_Oliver]

Anyone else notice DX best case scenario for Kendall Marshall is Andre Miller, while worst case is Mark Jackson??? Anyone else that would take Mark Jackson over Miller any day?? Maybe a typo, or I'm just crazy :S

Best Case: Andre Miller
Worst Case: Mark Jackson


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1pzuEbxqA
http://www.draftexpress.com

Mark Jacksson is one of the greatest point guard in nba history and Andre Miller at best is decent starting point guard and pretty good role player ...

He was really good, but not in the greatest conversation... doubt he's even top 10. CP3, Deron Williams, Rose should be there eventually.

Magic
Oscar Robertson
Kidd
Isiah
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Walt Frazier
Nash
Kevin Johnson?

[CunningLinguist]

wolves thunder game right now is nuts.

I want Harden bad.

Perfect example of a guy that had a poor tournament showing in his draft year. I think there's a lesson to be learned that one should consider a player's entire body of work.

He got drafted third overall

The point being that many posters were down on him for his poor showing in the tournament and considered him overrated because of it. Clearly the Thunder looked at his entire body of work and were rewarded accordingly. They never would have drafted him at that spot if they overemphasized his tournament play.

[dballislife]

man if we get alil unlucky and miss out on davis barnes mkg or drummond, there is literally no1 else we need...robinson and moultrie being PFs and beal and lamb are smallish 2s while demar is here, sucks if we have to settle on one of em two, it will be a waste of season

[JamesNaismith]

man if we get alil unlucky and miss out on davis barnes mkg or drummond, there is literally no1 else we need...robinson and moultrie being PFs and beal and lamb are smallish 2s while demar is here, sucks if we have to settle on one of em two, it will be a waste of season

Beal and Lamb can potentially end up being better SGs then Barnes and MKG can be SFs....


Also Lamb would be far from a small SG, if anything he may be the longest SG in the league.

[Leolovinliberal]

I'd still take Barnes over MKG. I just don't see anything special about MKG. College perimeter defense doesn't usually translate to the NBA.

Based on what? Barnes was shut down last night by 6'2 guards from Ohio, not Ohio State, the University of Ohio.. He can't create his own shot, he doesn't slash to the basket, he isn't exceptionally athletic. Without Kendall Marshall he sucks. This guy is still living off of his high school hype more than any other player ever. MKG has the "it factor" the "eye of the tiger" Barnes is apathetic.

[Leolovinliberal]

wolves thunder game right now is nuts.

I want Harden bad.

Perfect example of a guy that had a poor tournament showing in his draft year. I think there's a lesson to be learned that one should consider a player's entire body of work.

If you're advocating for Barnes, his "entire body of work" is average at best. Compare Zhardens college stats with Barnes.

[CunningLinguist]

wolves thunder game right now is nuts.

I want Harden bad.

Perfect example of a guy that had a poor tournament showing in his draft year. I think there's a lesson to be learned that one should consider a player's entire body of work.

If you're advocating for Barnes, his "entire body of work" is average at best. Compare Zhardens college stats with Barnes.

The stats are pretty similar, despite Harden playing in a sh-tty conference, not that the stats matter. Harden was thought to be unathletic, slightly undersized and not a great shooter. He's an example of a guy who translates well to the pro game. Barnes is similar in that he will benefit from the greater floor spacing and less clogged paint of the pro game.

[Rapsfan07]

If Quincy Miller declares, then I hope the Raptors pick him with a second first rounder. But I think it's in his favour to return to Baylor, continue working on his game and upper body strength, and improve his draft stock. He'll be projected to go higher likely top 5 than he is now in the mid-lotto to late-first. He's got Isaiah Austin to work with next year, so it won't be that bad.

Miller could end up better than Barnes and Gilchrist if he puts in the work.

definitely. especially if his explosiveness returns to where it was pre-injury.

I agree. Even if Miller returns to half the form he was before the injury, he's the best SF in this draft. Like I said, he'd be best served by coming back another year but if he decided to declare, I'd love for BC to trade Ed for him. Let him come here and get back into form and sign Grant Hill in the offseason. I think he'd be an amazing veteran for our team and for Miller.

[Rapsfan07]

Barnes has a lot of work to do on his game but I think he's getting slept on. He's not at the top of my list but I wouldn't be upset if we drafted him.

Question: It's our turn and Davis, Robinson, Beal and Lamb are off the board. The BPA at this point is either Drummond or Barnes...Who do you draft?

[CunningLinguist]

I agree. Even if Miller returns to half the form he was before the injury, he's the best SF in this draft. Like I said, he'd be best served by coming back another year but if he decided to declare, I'd love for BC to trade Ed for him. Let him come here and get back into form and sign Grant Hill in the offseason. I think he'd be an amazing veteran for our team and for Miller.

In some respects, Miller reminds of a less athletic Rudy Gay with superior ball handling and passing ability.

[Leolovinliberal]

The "stats were pretty similar"? Really? Care to post them? Harden played for a mediocre ASU team and was constantly double and triple teamed as he as the only go to guy on the team. HB is surrounded by a team full of Mickey Dee's Alll Americans and first round picks and was just shut down by 6'2 guards from Ohio. This guy is so over rated it's incredible.

olves thunder game right now is nuts.

I want Harden bad.

Perfect example of a guy that had a poor tournament showing in his draft year. I think there's a lesson to be learned that one should consider a player's entire body of work.

If you're advocating for Barnes, his "entire body of work" is average at best. Compare Zhardens college stats with Barnes.

The stats are pretty similar, despite Harden playing in a sh-tty conference, not that the stats matter. Harden was thought to be unathletic, slightly undersized and not a great shooter. He's an example of a guy who translates well to the pro game. Barnes is similar in that he will benefit from the greater floor spacing and less clogged paint of the pro game.[/quote]

[Leolovinliberal]

Barnes has a lot of work to do on his game but I think he's getting slept on. He's not at the top of my list but I wouldn't be upset if we drafted him.

Question: It's our turn and Davis, Robinson, Beal and Lamb are off the board. The BPA at this point is either Drummond or Barnes...Who do you draft?

Wow, I HATE both of them. I would honestly trade the pck at that point.

[Marlo Stanfield]

James Harden is on another level than Harrison Barnes. He's on another level than Brad Beal too, so you know I'm not hating. But I'll still take Beal over Barnes 10/10 times. I was one of Harrison's defenders when people said he didn't show up in big situations, but he's proved me wrong. He shows up in the regular season, but when it's winning time the guy has gone ghost. So what happens when we make the playoffs and we need him? The Harden comparison is nice to try and say a bad tourney doesn't guarantee failure, but there's a HUGE talent difference there too.

[CunningLinguist]

Barnes has a lot of work to do on his game but I think he's getting slept on. He's not at the top of my list but I wouldn't be upset if we drafted him.

Question: It's our turn and Davis, Robinson, Beal and Lamb are off the board. The BPA at this point is either Drummond or Barnes...Who do you draft?

Drummond. I still think he has huge potential. I think he's been very poorly coached at both the high school and college levels. Calhoun should be ashamed of the coaching job he did this season.

Drummond has more than size and the ability to jump. He has great lateral quickness for his size, shotblocking instincts, great and hands and footwork. Sure he's rough around the edges, but there's some much to work with. I think he can play C and PF at the next level as well. He can certianly defend either position.

A team that's as talent poor as the Raptors can't pass up on a guy like that. I may even be tempted by Perry Jones for the same reason, although I don't see the effort on the defensive side that leads me to believe that he'll be a two way player.

As much as I like Barnes, I don't think he has the potential of Drummond, though he may be more likely to reach his potential.

[Leolovinliberal]

James Harden is on another level than Harrison Barnes. He's on another level than Brad Beal too, so you know I'm not hating. But I'll still take Beal over Barnes 10/10 times. I was one of Harrison's defenders when people said he didn't show up in big situations, but he's proved me wrong. He shows up in the regular season, but when it's winning time the guy has gone ghost. So what happens when we make the playoffs and we need him? The Harden comparison is nice to try and say a bad tourney doesn't guarantee failure, but there's a HUGE talent difference there too.

It takes a man to admit that he was wrong, props to you. HB is so over rated it is incredible. He is average at everything. Not one players lives off of his high school hype as much as Barnes.

[Leolovinliberal]

Man, you love over hyped under performing players, huh? Can you name me one college player of similar size and stature to Drummond that put up similar stats who was drafted in the lottery and went on to become an NBA All Star or at least have a very long and productive career? Just one.

Barnes has a lot of work to do on his game but I think he's getting slept on. He's not at the top of my list but I wouldn't be upset if we drafted him.

Question: It's our turn and Davis, Robinson, Beal and Lamb are off the board. The BPA at this point is either Drummond or Barnes...Who do you draft?

Drummond. I still think he has huge potential. I think he's been very poorly coached at both the high school and college levels. Calhoun should be ashamed of the coaching job he did this season.

Drummond has more than size and the ability to jump. He has great lateral quickness for his size, shotblocking instincts, great and hands and footwork. Sure he's rough around the edges, but there's some much to work with. I think he can play C and PF at the next level as well. He can certianly defend either position.

A team that's as talent poor as the Raptors can't pass up on a guy like that. I may even be tempted by Perry Jones for the same reason, although I don't see the effort on the defensive side that leads me to believe that he'll be a two way player.

As much as I like Barnes, I don't think he has the potential of Drummond, though he may be more likely to reach his potential.

[Marlo Stanfield]

James Harden is on another level than Harrison Barnes. He's on another level than Brad Beal too, so you know I'm not hating. But I'll still take Beal over Barnes 10/10 times. I was one of Harrison's defenders when people said he didn't show up in big situations, but he's proved me wrong. He shows up in the regular season, but when it's winning time the guy has gone ghost. So what happens when we make the playoffs and we need him? The Harden comparison is nice to try and say a bad tourney doesn't guarantee failure, but there's a HUGE talent difference there too.

It takes a man to admit that he was wrong, props to you. HB is so over rated it is incredible. He is average at everything. Not one players lives off of his high school hype as much as Barnes.

The only obvious skill Barnes has at the NBA level is shooting, but do we really need a majority spot up shooter? Is that going to catapult us to success? Barnes supporters need to ask themselves that. It's always been reaching at straws to defend anything outside of his shooting.

[CunningLinguist]

James Harden is on another level than Harrison Barnes. He's on another level than Brad Beal too, so you know I'm not hating. But I'll still take Beal over Barnes 10/10 times. I was one of Harrison's defenders when people said he didn't show up in big situations, but he's proved me wrong. He shows up in the regular season, but when it's winning time the guy has gone ghost. So what happens when we make the playoffs and we need him? The Harden comparison is nice to try and say a bad tourney doesn't guarantee failure, but there's a HUGE talent difference there too.

I'm not suggesting Barnes is as good as Harden. But they share some similarities in that they suffered from the same criticisms about they're lack of athleticism/explosiveness. What always set Harden apart in my mind was his court sense/playmaking ability which has carried over to the pro game. I'm also not suggesting I'd definitely take Barnes over Beal (or Jeremy Lamb for that matter)

I think people are missing the point. There are people who liked Barnes all year that are changing their opinions based on one game (not unlike the Raptors game threads).

If Anthony Davis sh_t the bed in this tournament would it dissuade you from drafting him #1? It shouldn't. (and I'm not comparing them as equal prospects by any stretch of the imagination).

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Harden was fat. Barnes is not, so he's not hiding any athleticism. In fact, he'll need to put on weight; and when he does, his first step may as well be backward and his lateral quickness becomes worse still.

[Marlo Stanfield]

James Harden is on another level than Harrison Barnes. He's on another level than Brad Beal too, so you know I'm not hating. But I'll still take Beal over Barnes 10/10 times. I was one of Harrison's defenders when people said he didn't show up in big situations, but he's proved me wrong. He shows up in the regular season, but when it's winning time the guy has gone ghost. So what happens when we make the playoffs and we need him? The Harden comparison is nice to try and say a bad tourney doesn't guarantee failure, but there's a HUGE talent difference there too.

I'm not suggesting Barnes is as good as Harden. But they share some similarities in that they suffered from the same criticisms about they're lack of athleticism/explosiveness. What always set Harden apart in my mind was his court sense/playmaking ability which has carried over to the pro game.

I think people are missing the point. There are people who liked Barnes all year that are changing their opinions based on one game (not unlike the Raptors game threads).

If Anthony Davis sh_t the bed in this tournament would it dissuade you from drafting him #1? It shouldn't. (and I'm not comparing them as equal prospects by any stretch of the imagination).

I know exactly what you're saying, but Harrison can have good games all he wants and the fact remains that he shoots EXTREMELY well, but provides little else. I don't think I'm hopping off the bandwagon after one game, he's been steadily dropping down my personal Raptors draft board all season to be honest. He was my #1, now he's my #6. His handles have always turned me off his game. Yes, he has a little bit of craftiness to his offense, but against NBA defenders that won't work. I've seen NCAA college players who won't even sniff the D-League defend Barnes well and that worries me.