ImageImageImageImageImage

Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread

Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford

EH15
General Manager
Posts: 8,100
And1: 7,157
Joined: Jan 15, 2008

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#901 » by EH15 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:06 pm

YelloC wrote:
Logicbro wrote:2600 cases in Florida, no bubble will stop that kind of spread. Canada is the only way forward :)

Between 2013-2018 Florida averaged 900 pneumonia deaths a year. This year Florida has had 5000+ pneumonia deaths. If I was an NBA player/staff, I would have big time worries about resuming play in a state that will use whatever dirty trick they could think of in order to have sports leagues host the end of their seasons there.

There was like a 3 week stretch where Florida's deaths were between 45-50 every single day :lol:. No variance. Just a flat line.
User avatar
Hero
RealGM
Posts: 38,318
And1: 53,515
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
Location: Edward Gardens
 

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#902 » by Hero » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:15 pm

I'm disappointed in how long it's taking cases to decline but it looks like we're finally making some progress. The sooner we can open up further, the better for society.
mtcan
RealGM
Posts: 27,764
And1: 24,176
Joined: May 19, 2001

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#903 » by mtcan » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:54 pm

Hero wrote:I'm disappointed in how long it's taking cases to decline but it looks like we're finally making some progress. The sooner we can open up further, the better for society.

The case numbers 2 weeks or so from now will be interesting. We will see how stage 2 of reopening York, Durham, Hamilton, etc. will affects the numbers.
Par36
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,156
And1: 4,024
Joined: Oct 10, 2015
   

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#904 » by Par36 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:05 am

Hero wrote:I'm disappointed in how long it's taking cases to decline but it looks like we're finally making some progress. The sooner we can open up further, the better for society.



In most of Canada anyway. But have to see how everything responds from reopening.

But until a vaccine/treatment is found kinda stuck with some level of social distancing measures
User avatar
dohboy_24
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,864
And1: 578
Joined: Apr 04, 2002
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#905 » by dohboy_24 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:02 pm

Image

If the social distancing and lockdown measures are as effective as advertised, why is there a 90 day lag between their implementation and observed effects?
Raptors record prediction: 45-37 (6th place in the East)
User avatar
fbalmeida
Head Coach
Posts: 6,260
And1: 8,411
Joined: Jul 03, 2019
Location: Braga, Portugal
         

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#906 » by fbalmeida » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:28 am

If you look at the charts properly the effects are staring you in the face at about 40 days. That's when new cases peaked. Not at 90. Whoever drew those red lines is either a pinhead or being purposely disingenuous.

That's how it works. In Portugal, for instance, where lockdown began with only 73 cases on March 13th, new daily cases peaked at 30 days.
Image
"The Raptors will be fine." - Masai Ujiri, March 26th, 2021
User avatar
dohboy_24
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,864
And1: 578
Joined: Apr 04, 2002
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#907 » by dohboy_24 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:17 pm

fbalmeida wrote:If you look at the charts properly the effects are staring you in the face at about 40 days. That's when new cases peaked. Not at 90.


I didn't say they peaked after 90 days. The first line is the start of the lock down measures and the next one is 90 days later, at which point the number of daily new cases is almost at the same level as it was 2 weeks after the lock down started.

30-day, 60-day, 90-day, 180-day trends are common in stats, finance, economics and business - hence the choice of that time frame within this series of data.

Yes, new cases peaked at around 45 days, or the mid-point of the data series.

At the end of April-beginning of May, the number of new cases per day drops below the 1,500 per day range and within the next 3-4 weeks (end of May) it never tops 1,000 daily new cases again. As we are now 2-3 weeks later, it's not eclipsed the 500 per day benchmark for almost a week.

What happened by that 45 day mark and during the next 45 days afterwards that could explain the decline after this peak?

Did we make changes to the lockdown and social distancing measures that were more restrictive and effective? NO.
Did we take additional measures to quarantine the most at-risk sectors of the population to protect them and reduce their exposure? NO.
Did we make masks mandatory? NO.

If the same measures taken since the middle of March when lockdown and social distancing began were still being used at the end of April-beginning of May and from that point onwards, why are they more effective after the 45 day mark than before?

By the middle of May, the province of Ontario was entering Stage 1 of its reopening plan and the lockdown measures and social distancing guidelines were being lifted.

During this time, people were "taking more risks" as they became "less concerned" about the virus and more people than the experts recommended were making social and health decisions against medical and government advice.

Since that time, just 2 weeks after the virus peaked as the lock down and social distancing measures finally blessed us with their intended effects, the number of daily new cases has continued to decline at a steady pace. Why?

Why did the number of daily new cases continue to decline for another 15 days after the peak without any changes being made to the lockdown measures or social distance guidelines to help explain them?

When the lock down measures and social distancing guidelines were in place, the number of daily new cases continued to rise until reaching a peak about 45 days after they began.

For about 15 days afterwards they continued to decline without any changes being made to the way we were protecting ourselves, but as the lock down measures and social distancing guidelines have been removed or become less restrictive, the number of daily new cases has continually declined.

Do you mean to say "the effects staring me in the face" are those of the stage 1 and stage 2 re-opening measures being taken right now and not the previous lock down and social distancing measures?

I mean... that's what the data is showing, right?

When we were in lock down and following social distancing guidelines more strictly, we experienced a continual increase in the number of daily new cases 75% of that time when compared to the previous period (i.e. comparing the past 2 weeks with the 2 weeks prior).

Since then, as we've removed lock down restrictions and become more inclined to ignore social distancing guidelines, we've seen the number of daily new cases have continued to decline compared to the previous period 100% of that time.

Since it's so plain to see and "staring me in the face", please make it 100% crystal-clear for me...

How do these charts prove the effectiveness of the original lock down and social distancing measures when compared to the timeline of measures being taken and their observed effects on the data being measured during those series of time?
Raptors record prediction: 45-37 (6th place in the East)
KrazyP
General Manager
Posts: 9,510
And1: 5,718
Joined: Jun 03, 2001
 

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#908 » by KrazyP » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:24 pm

dohboy_24 wrote:If the social distancing and lockdown measures are as effective as advertised, why is there a 90 day lag between their implementation and observed effects?


If a giant 400lb boulder is rolling down a hill and you try to stop it....will it stop right away or will it take time to slow it down?
User avatar
dohboy_24
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,864
And1: 578
Joined: Apr 04, 2002
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#909 » by dohboy_24 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:31 pm

No Spike In Coronavirus Cases After Philly Protests: Officials

The city's health commissioner said after the week of protests, the city saw a less than 6 percent positive rate in cases.

"Philadelphia's Health Commissioner Dr. Thomas Farley Tuesday addressed how the numerous protests over the last two weeks have impacted the city's coronavirus case count.

During a news conference Tuesday, Farley said the city's total case count is 24,591 after reporting 116 new cases.

He said before the protests over George Floyd's death, about 1,900 coronavirus tests were being administered daily. That figure dropped to about 1,500 as protests occurred throughout the city.

Now, he said the number of daily tests has risen to nearly 1,800 again. The 116 new cases came from a batch of roughly 2,000 tests.

He said that's less than a 6 percent positive rate, which is the lowest rate the city has seen during the pandemic.

"The fact that the number is above 100 really is more reflective of the fact we are doing more testing than an increase in number of transmissions of the infection," Farley said."

SOURCE: https://patch.com/pennsylvania/philadelphia/no-spike-coronavirus-cases-after-philly-protests-officials
Raptors record prediction: 45-37 (6th place in the East)
User avatar
dohboy_24
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,864
And1: 578
Joined: Apr 04, 2002
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#910 » by dohboy_24 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:38 pm

KrazyP wrote:
dohboy_24 wrote:If the social distancing and lockdown measures are as effective as advertised, why is there a 90 day lag between their implementation and observed effects?


If a giant 400lb boulder is rolling down a hill and you try to stop it....will it stop right away or will it take time to slow it down?


It wasn't a 400lb boulder when the lock down and social distancing measures began in mid-March. It was but a pebble that grew into a 400lb boulder during the time we were in lock down and taking the recommended social distancing measures.

Since the lock down and social distancing measures have begun to ease beginning in mid-May, the 400lb boulder that grew during the lock down has been chiseled and broken down almost to the point of it turning back into a pebble again.

Is that the analogy you want to express?

==========================================

If I were to provide these charts with the dates highlighted to show when the stage 1 and stage 2 re-opening measures started taking place, how would you or anyone else explain the decline in daily new cases of the virus since the 3rd week in April?

For the 2 week period starting after the peak and ending at the start of the stage 1 re-opening measures (April 21-May 03), the daily new cases continually declines compared to the previously observed periods that occurred before the peak.

Without any underlying changes to the lock down and social distancing measures, why do you think this decline occurred?

I have no explanation or plausible suggestion for this decline after the peak, yet before stage 1 started, other than the number of tests administered and the positive test rate among those being tested.

Since those variables can affect the data independently of the lock down and social distance measures being taken, they could just as well explain the rise itself before cresting to a peak as much as they can explain this brief 2-week period.

After the stage 1 re-opening measures began, the number of daily new cases has continued to decline compared to the previously observed periods.

Other than how the easing of restrictions themselves might have an effect on the underlying results in favor (new cases decline) or for worse (new cases increase as limitations are removed) compared to the previously observed periods, what else could explain the decline other than the number of tests and the positive test rate among those being tested as noted earlier?

Aside from the ones already mentioned, which other variables do you believe could have affected the positive test rate and number of daily new cases being tracked?
Raptors record prediction: 45-37 (6th place in the East)
KrazyP
General Manager
Posts: 9,510
And1: 5,718
Joined: Jun 03, 2001
 

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#911 » by KrazyP » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:40 pm

dohboy_24 wrote:
KrazyP wrote:
dohboy_24 wrote:If the social distancing and lockdown measures are as effective as advertised, why is there a 90 day lag between their implementation and observed effects?


If a giant 400lb boulder is rolling down a hill and you try to stop it....will it stop right away or will it take time to slow it down?


It wasn't a 400lb boulder when the lock down and social distancing measures began in mid-March. It was but a pebble that grew into a 400lb boulder during the time we were in lock down and taking the recommended social distancing measures.

Since the lock down and social distancing measures have begun to ease beginning in mid-May, the 400lb boulder that grew during the lock down has been chiseled and broken down almost to the point of it turning back into a pebble again.

Is that the analogy you want to express?

==========================================

If I were to provide these charts with the dates highlighted to show when the stage 1 and stage 2 re-opening measures started taking place, how would you or anyone else explain the decline in daily new cases of the virus since the 3rd week in April?

For the 2 week period starting after the peak and ending at the start of the stage 1 re-opening measures (April 21-May 03), the daily new cases continually declines compared to the previously observed periods that occurred before the peak.

Without any underlying changes to the lock down and social distancing measures, why do you think this decline occurred?

I have no explanation or plausible suggestion for this decline after the peak, yet before stage 1 started, other than the number of tests administered and the positive test rate among those being tested.

Since those variables can affect the data independently of the lock down and social distance measures being taken, they could just as well explain the rise itself before cresting to a peak as much as they can explain this brief 2-week period.

After the stage 1 re-opening measures began, the number of daily new cases has continued to decline compared to the previously observed periods.

Other than how the easing of restrictions themselves might have an effect on the underlying results in favor (new cases decline) or for worse (new cases increase as limitations are removed) compared to the previously observed periods, what else could explain the decline other than the number of tests and the positive test rate among those being tested as noted earlier?

Aside from the ones already mentioned, which other variables do you believe could have affected the positive test rate and number of daily new cases being tracked?



Do viruses spread faster when humans interact with each other or when they stay away from each other?
User avatar
dohboy_24
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,864
And1: 578
Joined: Apr 04, 2002
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#912 » by dohboy_24 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:41 pm

Florida bars and restaurants close just a week after reopening

Businesses on Jacksonville Beach shutdown as state’s second coronavirus wave hits

"The state’s health department has since confirmed two consecutive days with more than 2,000 new cases, breaking records set when the pandemic began in March.

That announcement came almost one week on from Florida’s second reopening phase permitting bars, cinemas and tattoo shops to welcome customers with some restrictions, as mandated under governor Ron DeSantis’ reopening plan.

Still, increased Covid-19 transmission in Florida has forced some businesses to shut down."

SOURCE: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/florida-bars-restaurants-close-coronavirus-spike-outbreak-a9568631.html
Raptors record prediction: 45-37 (6th place in the East)
Fairview4Life
RealGM
Posts: 70,168
And1: 34,009
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
     

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#913 » by Fairview4Life » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:49 pm

Florida did a very good job with old people and a very bad job with everything else.
9. Similarly, IF THOU HAST SPENT the entire offseason predicting that thy team will stink, thou shalt not gloat, nor even be happy, shouldst thou turn out to be correct. Realistic analysis is fine, but be a fan first, a smug smarty-pants second.
User avatar
dohboy_24
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,864
And1: 578
Joined: Apr 04, 2002
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#914 » by dohboy_24 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:57 pm

Why have the number of new cases and positive test rate in Florida increased since reopening measures were taken?

Is it because the virus has become more deadly or more people are getting sick because they're ignoring the social distancing guidelines or coming into contact with more people than before?

While you might conclude as much after reading such an article as the one posted above, if you do some research on your own you'll find there's much more to the story than just what's in that one article.

================

"The state of Florida has seen a spike in coronavirus cases in the first couple of weeks of June while around 27,000 COVID-19 tests have been administered each day. Testing is more available than it was at the beginning of the pandemic. The state’s daily positive test rate has also gone up in the past week."

SOURCE: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/06/18/update-track-floridas-rate-of-positive-covid-19-tests/

================

#1 - More people are being tested on a daily basis than in the past.

More tests have been administered in the first two weeks of June than the previous two week period.

The number of daily tests administered has increased during the last few weeks.

Even in light of an unchanging positive test rate, the number of new cases will increase as the number of tests are administered - that's how math works when the denominator increases and the numerator is a function of it.

All that aside, how can the increase in positive test rate be explained? Even if more people are being tested, how can it be explained that a greater percentage of them are testing positive than before?

Does that mean the virus is becoming more deadly?

================

"A crash program to test for COVID-19 at Florida nursing homes and ALFs has given state officials a clearer picture of the devastation wrought by the virus at long-term care facilities — including more than 1,500 deaths and thousands more infections.
In the course of two months, the state went from having tested at just a handful of elder-care homes to 2,215. Another 1,000 homes reported conducting their own tests of staff or residents or both, according to a Herald analysis of records supplied by the state. Advocates applauded the effort.

The rapidly organized program, announced to the industry in a May 21 conference call, set June 12 — last Friday — as a deadline to get the project completed."

"By May 18, when Florida began to reopen, more than 1,300 long-term care facilities still hadn’t reported any testing. By June 1, that number had shrunk to fewer than 550 facilities.

To increase testing, the Florida Department of Health began shipping COVID-19 testing kits to elder-care homes that responded to a state survey that they had the capability to conduct tests on their own. For those that couldn’t do the testing, DOH coordinated with local health departments and the National Guard to administer tests, as well as sending its mobile testing lab.

“In the past few weeks they really ramped up the effort to do the testing,’’ said Nick Van Der Linden, a spokesman for LeadingAge Florida, an association about 250 mostly nonprofit long-term care facilities.

“For the most part I’m not aware of any member that hasn’t either been testing either by receiving a testing kit or through DOH, or the American Health Associates, a new lab they have partnered with.”

================

#2 - Not only did testing increase, testing among senior citizens increased as well.

Through prior testing, people in the 60+ age group were shown to have higher positive test rates compared to other groups.

If 50% of the tests administered the last two weeks were given to people aged 60+ compared to 25% the previous 2-4 week period, should you really be surprised to learn the positive test rate has increased?

More daily tests + more daily tests of at-risk patients = increased number of daily new cases + increased positive test rate.

Don't believe me? What about if Governor Rob DeSantis said the same during his press conference to release these numbers?

"At a press conference just before the record number was reported, Mr DeSantis told reporters that numbers were going up because of an expansion in testing, including to asymptomatic people and those less at risk, and that there was no sign that major events that saw people gathering together had led to a spike in infections."

SOURCE: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/florida-coronavirus-reopening-cases-surge-testing-a9565996.html

This article with the above quote is even linked to within the second last paragraph of the original article from the Independent posted above.

"Governor deSantis denounced new coronavirus concerns on Sunday, as Donald Trump plans on staging this summer’s Republican convention in the state.

“I think it’s important for people to understand who is being tested now compared to who was being tested in March"

The link to the above article and quote can be reached by clicking on the "denounced new coronavirus... " text in the second last paragraph of the original article.

I guess the author of the article I quoted above just forgot to add that information.... must not be an important detail :)

15 minutes to find the information. 15 minutes to write this post. I don't spend my time doing this to deceive people, there's enough of that coming from those we've been told all our lives we can trust.
Raptors record prediction: 45-37 (6th place in the East)
mtcan
RealGM
Posts: 27,764
And1: 24,176
Joined: May 19, 2001

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#915 » by mtcan » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:59 pm

dohboy_24 wrote:Florida bars and restaurants close just a week after reopening

Businesses on Jacksonville Beach shutdown as state’s second coronavirus wave hits

"The state’s health department has since confirmed two consecutive days with more than 2,000 new cases, breaking records set when the pandemic began in March.

That announcement came almost one week on from Florida’s second reopening phase permitting bars, cinemas and tattoo shops to welcome customers with some restrictions, as mandated under governor Ron DeSantis’ reopening plan.

Still, increased Covid-19 transmission in Florida has forced some businesses to shut down."

SOURCE: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/florida-bars-restaurants-close-coronavirus-spike-outbreak-a9568631.html

But if you ask Trump or their dumbass governor and even dumber congressman...it won't be because of coronavirus... :lol:
User avatar
dohboy_24
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,864
And1: 578
Joined: Apr 04, 2002
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#916 » by dohboy_24 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:00 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:Florida did a very good job with old people and a very bad job with everything else.


That's not what the data says... most recent increases to positive test rate and number of daily new cases are the result of increased testing during the last few weeks, especially among those within that subset of the population.
Raptors record prediction: 45-37 (6th place in the East)
User avatar
Kevin Willis
RealGM
Posts: 12,680
And1: 8,096
Joined: Apr 17, 2009
       

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#917 » by Kevin Willis » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:51 pm

Ugh - not this again... :banghead:
When Chuck Norris was born the doc said "Congratulations, its a man"
User avatar
lobosloboslobos
RealGM
Posts: 12,920
And1: 18,467
Joined: Jan 08, 2009
Location: space is the place
 

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#918 » by lobosloboslobos » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:02 pm

Read on Twitter


Sick Kids hospital today issued a report on COVID-19 and kids and they are unequivocal: reopen schools now, no masks for kids, no social distancing for kids. Wow.

They still advocate a great many risk-mitigation steps but the bottom line is they are much more concerned about psychological damage to kids than the risk of COVID-19.

And of course Sick Kids is one of the best children's hospitals in the world. Kind of stunning.

here's the link to the very readable report: https://www.sickkids.ca/PDFs/About-SickKids/81407-COVID19-Recommendations-for-School-Reopening-SickKids.pdf
Image
User avatar
Kevin Willis
RealGM
Posts: 12,680
And1: 8,096
Joined: Apr 17, 2009
       

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#919 » by Kevin Willis » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:20 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:
Read on Twitter


Sick Kids hospital today issued a report on COVID-19 and kids and they are unequivocal: reopen schools now, no masks for kids, no social distancing for kids. Wow.

They still advocate a great many risk-mitigation steps but the bottom line is they are much more concerned about psychological damage to kids than the risk of COVID-19.

And of course Sick Kids is one of the best children's hospitals in the world. Kind of stunning.

here's the link to the very readable report: https://www.sickkids.ca/PDFs/About-SickKids/81407-COVID19-Recommendations-for-School-Reopening-SickKids.pdf


Thanks for sharing.
When Chuck Norris was born the doc said "Congratulations, its a man"
Logicbro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
And1: 117
Joined: Jun 28, 2019
     

Re: Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread 

Post#920 » by Logicbro » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:34 am

Simple comparison... Ontario 26000 tests, 180 positive, Florida 30000 tests 3000 positive . It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Ontaroi is in much better shape at a 0.7 percent positve rate vs 10%.

Return to Toronto Raptors