[Stein] Dallas Has Tried To Trade For Goran Dragic But Toronto Has Resisted

[aligator]

What are you talking about?!

We don't have a backup SG. I'd understand if Harris was playing this year but Johnson was completely underwhelming and our team still loves it's PGs. Dragic is a GREAT option off the bench and ofc helps depth should there be any injuries ie/ Fred was in and out of the lineup throughout the last season.

There's no way simply losing him for nothing is the better option and if we were to do so it makes no sense to do so now vs after the trade deadline and exhausting all our options. Because almost without fail some team wants to "add a little extra" to make a push and Goran is exactly that "little extra" teams think can help put them over the top or at least further in the Playoffs.

So again no reason at all to buy him so nevermind what these so called rumors are saying Bobby already said publicly they're comfortable forward with him. Teams need to offer some value or the show goes on...

Bobby was simply posturing as GM's do. You are totally wrong in saying a buyout makes no sense, again as long as significant give back. It is incorrect saying that a buyout is losing him for nothing as it opens up other possibilties. We don't have a backup SG?....lol. We just signed one a few days back. The team does not plan to play with traditional lineup in any case.

You know a buy out doesnt give us cap space, right? It opens up no possibilites, lol. All it does is save some people a bit of money[/quote

Of course I know it does not give cap space.It keeps us below the tax which if sufficient can allow a 15th roster player, use of remaining MLE or BAE now or in season. It also allows flexibility for in season trades. Obviously, you do not understand the system. It might be wise to know your facts before posting and looking foolish.

[planetmars]

You know a buy out doesnt give us cap space, right? It opens up no possibilites, lol. All it does is save some people a bit of money

A buyout does give back cap space. If Dragic gave the Raptors $5M.. then our cap shrinks by $5M. We'd still be operating above the cap, but we'd be able to use the rest of our MLE or our BAE if we wanted as we'd be $5M below the tax at that point.

I think we’d just use the TPE from Kyle trade . I believe it is just under 5 million.

But that takes us over the tax, so we won't use it.

We don't cross the tax line, ever. We traded away picks to do that during our championship season.

We can field a team of 14 guys right now (with Dragic on the team). The 15th guy will get us over the tax due to all the partial guarantees we gave out.

If we use that TPE, we'll be over the tax. If we use the rest of our MLE (about $3M) or our BAE (about $3.6M) we'll be over the tax.

If we buyout Dragic, and he gives us enough money back (like say $5M), then at that point we could use that TPE. Or use the rest of our MLE/BAE. Or just guarantee one or more of the guys on a partial guarantee. Basically gives us more options.

A buyout gives us flexibility but it only depends on how much Dragic is willing to give back. If he's not willing to give back a lot then it would be better to just hold on to him.

[YelloC]

The Goran Dragic contract is actually more tradable than the Lowry contract because instead of trading 30 million worth of prospects, teams will only have to trade 19 million or slightly less.
I feel like the bidding war could heat up now that teams are generally functioning as they normally do.

[Zeno]

A buyout does give back cap space. If Dragic gave the Raptors $5M.. then our cap shrinks by $5M. We'd still be operating above the cap, but we'd be able to use the rest of our MLE or our BAE if we wanted as we'd be $5M below the tax at that point.

I think we’d just use the TPE from Kyle trade . I believe it is just under 5 million.

But that takes us over the tax, so we won't use it.

We don't cross the tax line, ever. We traded away picks to do that during our championship season.

We can field a team of 14 guys right now (with Dragic on the team). The 15th guy will get us over the tax due to all the partial guarantees we gave out.

If we use that TPE, we'll be over the tax. If we use the rest of our MLE (about $3M) or our BAE (about $3.6M) we'll be over the tax.

If we buyout Dragic, and he gives us enough money back (like say $5M), then at that point we could use that TPE. Or use the rest of our MLE/BAE. Or just guarantee one or more of the guys on a partial guarantee. Basically gives us more options.

A buyout gives us flexibility but it only depends on how much Dragic is willing to give back. If he's not willing to give back a lot then it would be better to just hold on to him.

I agree, I was just pointing out that they might prefer to use the TPE in trade rather than the BAE this year once room was made under the tax with a buyout.

[OAKLEY_2]

The Goran Dragic contract is actually more tradable than the Lowry contract because instead of trading 30 million worth of prospects, teams will only have to trade 19 million or slightly less.
I feel like the bidding war could heat up now that teams are generally functioning as they normally do.

They are not buying him out. That's just not happening. Unlike Alonzo Mourning Raps fans can safely buy a Dragic jersey.

[planetmars]

I think we’d just use the TPE from Kyle trade . I believe it is just under 5 million.

But that takes us over the tax, so we won't use it.

We don't cross the tax line, ever. We traded away picks to do that during our championship season.

We can field a team of 14 guys right now (with Dragic on the team). The 15th guy will get us over the tax due to all the partial guarantees we gave out.

If we use that TPE, we'll be over the tax. If we use the rest of our MLE (about $3M) or our BAE (about $3.6M) we'll be over the tax.

If we buyout Dragic, and he gives us enough money back (like say $5M), then at that point we could use that TPE. Or use the rest of our MLE/BAE. Or just guarantee one or more of the guys on a partial guarantee. Basically gives us more options.

A buyout gives us flexibility but it only depends on how much Dragic is willing to give back. If he's not willing to give back a lot then it would be better to just hold on to him.

I agree, I was just pointing out that they might prefer to use the TPE in trade rather than the BAE this year once room was made under the tax with a buyout.

Also depends on if we want a free agent or not I guess. We might want to bring in a guy that's not on a team. Like Alize Johnson who just got waived by Brooklyn for example.

[Federalies]

Lol, it’s going to be an interesting stretch of speculation and counter speculation!

Read on Twitter

[aligator]

The Goran Dragic contract is actually more tradable than the Lowry contract because instead of trading 30 million worth of prospects, teams will only have to trade 19 million or slightly less.
I feel like the bidding war could heat up now that teams are generally functioning as they normally do.

They are not buying him out. That's just not happening. Unlike Alonzo Mourning Raps fans can safely buy a Dragic jersey.[/qu

[aligator]

The Goran Dragic contract is actually more tradable than the Lowry contract because instead of trading 30 million worth of prospects, teams will only have to trade 19 million or slightly less.
I feel like the bidding war could heat up now that teams are generally functioning as they normally do.

They are not buying him out. That's just not happening. Unlike Alonzo Mourning Raps fans can safely buy a Dragic jersey.

It is foolish not to entertain the possibility or to suggest it is not a possibility.. And even if not bought out now, it could still happen after trade deadline when there are usually several buyouts to keep teams below tax. Although I see a buyout as a positive resolution (again depending on the give back) I would never suggest it is a certainty as a trade could still happen though I have trouble seeing it.

[tecumseh18]

A buyout does give back cap space. If Dragic gave the Raptors $5M.. then our cap shrinks by $5M. We'd still be operating above the cap, but we'd be able to use the rest of our MLE or our BAE if we wanted as we'd be $5M below the tax at that point.

I think we’d just use the TPE from Kyle trade . I believe it is just under 5 million.

But that takes us over the tax, so we won't use it.

We don't cross the tax line, ever. We traded away picks to do that during our championship season.

Incorrect. Raps did operate above the tax in the 2018-19 season, and Masai has stated that they will do so again when the Raps get back to contender status.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/toronto-raptors/cap/2018/

https://raptorsrapture.com/2019/06/27/toronto-raptors-tax-bill/

Sure, they made crafty trades to minimize the tax burden (and get rid of Monroe, in the realistic hope that he would end up on the Sixers who were desperate for a back up C. Which happened, and won us that series ). But they still ended up in the tax.

That's why it's especially imperative that Raptors NOT be in the tax at the end of the 2021-22 season. Having been in the tax in the last three seasons, they want to reset the clock for not being subject to the luxury repeater tax going forward.

[mademan]

Bobby was simply posturing as GM's do. You are totally wrong in saying a buyout makes no sense, again as long as significant give back. It is incorrect saying that a buyout is losing him for nothing as it opens up other possibilties. We don't have a backup SG?....lol. We just signed one a few days back. The team does not plan to play with traditional lineup in any case.

You know a buy out doesnt give us cap space, right? It opens up no possibilites, lol. All it does is save some people a bit of money

A buyout does give back cap space. If Dragic gave the Raptors $5M.. then our cap shrinks by $5M. We'd still be operating above the cap, but we'd be able to use the rest of our MLE or our BAE if we wanted as we'd be $5M below the tax at that point.

Even if Dragic decides to give back every last dollar of his contract in a buy out, the raps cap sheet will still have his 19 mill.

This is how it’s always. Teams don’t manufacture cap space through but outs. That would be ridiculous

[mademan]

Bobby was simply posturing as GM's do. You are totally wrong in saying a buyout makes no sense, again as long as significant give back. It is incorrect saying that a buyout is losing him for nothing as it opens up other possibilties. We don't have a backup SG?....lol. We just signed one a few days back. The team does not plan to play with traditional lineup in any case.

You know a buy out doesnt give us cap space, right? It opens up no possibilites, lol. All it does is save some people a bit of money[/quote

Of course I know it does not give cap space.It keeps us below the tax which if sufficient can allow a 15th roster player, use of remaining MLE or BAE now or in season. It also allows flexibility for in season trades. Obviously, you do not understand the system. It might be wise to know your facts before posting and looking foolish.

I will never understand how people can act so confidently about stuff they have zero understanding of. Takes 10 seconds to google and not make an azz out of yourself

[tecumseh18]

Read on Twitter

This is logical. Maybe Fischer was correct in assessing the mood of the NBA, but that's not necessarily representative of the reality.

[aligator]

You know a buy out doesnt give us cap space, right? It opens up no possibilites, lol. All it does is save some people a bit of money[/quote

Of course I know it does not give cap space.It keeps us below the tax which if sufficient can allow a 15th roster player, use of remaining MLE or BAE now or in season. It also allows flexibility for in season trades. Obviously, you do not understand the system. It might be wise to know your facts before posting and looking foolish.

I will never understand how people can act so confidently about stuff they have zero understanding of. Takes 10 seconds to google and not make an azz out of yourself

LOL

[planetmars]

You know a buy out doesnt give us cap space, right? It opens up no possibilites, lol. All it does is save some people a bit of money

A buyout does give back cap space. If Dragic gave the Raptors $5M.. then our cap shrinks by $5M. We'd still be operating above the cap, but we'd be able to use the rest of our MLE or our BAE if we wanted as we'd be $5M below the tax at that point.

Even if Dragic decides to give back every last dollar of his contract in a buy out, the raps cap sheet will still have his 19 mill.

This is how it’s always. Teams don’t manufacture cap space through but outs. That would be ridiculous

No you have it wrong. If for example $10M of his Dragic's contract is bought out, then the Raptors are on the hook for the rest, so $9.4M. The remaining $10M is given back to the team.

I had this wrong too earlier in the summer, but was corrected by Dan Hackett.

Read this here:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/nba-contract-buyout-faq-key-dates-salary-cap-impacts/

It gives an example using Wade's contract with the Bulls. He gave back $8M, and the Bulls were on the hook for $15M, but their cap got reduced by that much.

[Federalies]

Read on Twitter

[mademan]

A buyout does give back cap space. If Dragic gave the Raptors $5M.. then our cap shrinks by $5M. We'd still be operating above the cap, but we'd be able to use the rest of our MLE or our BAE if we wanted as we'd be $5M below the tax at that point.

Even if Dragic decides to give back every last dollar of his contract in a buy out, the raps cap sheet will still have his 19 mill.

This is how it’s always. Teams don’t manufacture cap space through but outs. That would be ridiculous

No you have it wrong. If for example $10M of his Dragic's contract is bought out, then the Raptors are on the hook for the rest, so $9.4M. The remaining $10M is given back to the team.

I had this wrong too earlier in the summer, but was corrected by Dan Hackett.

Read this here:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/nba-contract-buyout-faq-key-dates-salary-cap-impacts/

It gives an example using Wade's contract with the Bulls. He gave back $8M, and the Bulls were on the hook for $15M, but their cap got reduced by that much.

bro, there is no ambiguity to this. You guys are wrong. This is the Pistons cap sheet

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/DET.html

Even with Blake Griffin giving back 8 figures in a buy out, which is borderline unprecedented, his original contract still counts against the Pistons.

All a buy out does is save ownership some relative pocket change. It does not affect the cap sheet

[planetmars]

Even if Dragic decides to give back every last dollar of his contract in a buy out, the raps cap sheet will still have his 19 mill.

This is how it’s always. Teams don’t manufacture cap space through but outs. That would be ridiculous

No you have it wrong. If for example $10M of his Dragic's contract is bought out, then the Raptors are on the hook for the rest, so $9.4M. The remaining $10M is given back to the team.

I had this wrong too earlier in the summer, but was corrected by Dan Hackett.

Read this here:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/nba-contract-buyout-faq-key-dates-salary-cap-impacts/

It gives an example using Wade's contract with the Bulls. He gave back $8M, and the Bulls were on the hook for $15M, but their cap got reduced by that much.

bro, there is no ambiguity to this. You guys are wrong. This is the Pistons cap sheet

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/DET.html

Even with Blake Griffin giving back 8 figures in a buy out, which is borderline unprecedented, his original contract still counts against the Pistons.

All a buy out does is save ownership some relative pocket change. It does not affect the cap sheet

Don't know why you are using basketball reference.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/brooklyn-nets/blake-griffin-6501/

2020: Original cap $36,810,996 (gave back $4,140,431)
2021: Original cap $38,957,028 (gave back $9,192,902)

So the Pistons cap went from $36.8M to $32.5M in 2020. And then from $39M to $29M in 2021. So the Pistons saved money here.

[Johnny Bball]

I wonder if there's any precedent for buyout "deals".

In other words....say we tell the mavs "we will buy out dragic if you trade us a moses brown for one of our unwanted project players. Or some sort of equivalent to that.

This way....we get our futures without having to take on contracts and dallas gets their dragon. It also allows goran to sign a more reasonable deal qith the mavs...taking up less of their cap space.

Anyone know if something like this violates the CBA?

Another option would be to trade Boucher for a mich bigger haul then he's actually worth. Maybe something like brown, green, brunson. Something like that woild be HUGE.

I've seen it before but I can't remember where. Problem here is, Dragic doesn't come off the cap when waived right? so you don't get any more space and you can't add Brown without going into the tax right?

[kalel123]

I don't know where all this buyout talk came from but to entertain one at this juncture would be downright foolish for a player we can use ourselves if worse comes to worst. Can't believe there are even people who's trying to talk themselves into thinking this is not only ok but is actually a better way. I've supported most of the moves so far but would be against this one if made. All this talk about luxury tax this and luxury tax that is BS. There's no amount of money that he would logically forgo that we could use to get a player of actual worth under the tax. Any two-bit player we could get using that insignificant amount of money has been gotten already. It's time to weed some of 'em out rather than going out to get some more.

In fact, teams may try to call our bluff but you have to go the opposite way almost and be prepared to go all the way with him to the end of the season to ensure you have a leg up on trade negotiations so they won't get the idea that they can just get him off waivers after buyout.