Summer Runs and Random Player Sightings

[Basketball_Jones]

Any stuff on Precious this summer? I still believe he can be pretty good. Held us down for a while starting at the 5 before the Poetl trade

[hyper316]

Any stuff on Precious this summer? I still believe he can be pretty good. Held us down for a while starting at the 5 before the Poetl trade

I thought I saw a photo of him playing at Rico runs

[nikster]

I just can't get excited by this season.

While I'm not hating on Gradey, I still don't like the pick, seems like he's going to be a role player and I like Yak but if we were going to send 2 firsts to SAS for Thad & Yak, I much rather have used that to get Turner for a C that makes much more sense that could've spread the floor for Scottie & Pascal.

This is gonna be such a horribly bland year & we'll have no draft pick to show for it. Until I see some other major trade happen, Masai is trending to becoming Dumars 2.0.

Making the move for Yak and not Turner is still nuts to me lol.

Makes me seriously question Masai’s roster building.

What makes you think Turner was available, or could be gotten for similar value? And this was only the first season Turner looks like he might be better than Yak, so like a half season sample at the deadline

[HumbleRen]

I just can't get excited by this season.

While I'm not hating on Gradey, I still don't like the pick, seems like he's going to be a role player and I like Yak but if we were going to send 2 firsts to SAS for Thad & Yak, I much rather have used that to get Turner for a C that makes much more sense that could've spread the floor for Scottie & Pascal.

This is gonna be such a horribly bland year & we'll have no draft pick to show for it. Until I see some other major trade happen, Masai is trending to becoming Dumars 2.0.

Making the move for Yak and not Turner is still nuts to me lol.

Makes me seriously question Masai’s roster building.

What makes you think Turner was available, or could be gotten for similar value? And this was only the first season Turner looks like he might be better than Yak, so like a half season sample at the deadline

They were shopping Turner for like 2 years straight.

Yak is a very good player but his archetype is literally the worst type of center you can get to fit beside Siakam or Scottie.

[Mikistan]

Making the move for Yak and not Turner is still nuts to me lol.

Makes me seriously question Masai’s roster building.

What makes you think Turner was available, or could be gotten for similar value? And this was only the first season Turner looks like he might be better than Yak, so like a half season sample at the deadline

They were shopping Turner for like 2 years straight.

Yak is a very good player but his archetype is literally the worst type of center you can get to fit beside Siakam or Scottie.

Not totally true, his passing from the C spot is something that does fit and most centres can't do.

[HumbleRen]

What makes you think Turner was available, or could be gotten for similar value? And this was only the first season Turner looks like he might be better than Yak, so like a half season sample at the deadline

They were shopping Turner for like 2 years straight.

Yak is a very good player but his archetype is literally the worst type of center you can get to fit beside Siakam or Scottie.

Not totally true, his passing from the C spot is something that does fit and most centres can't do.

I mean it’s cool that he’s a good passer but Siakam and Scottie are some of the best passers at their position too.

What we need from the center position is for someone to make their lives easier on the offensive end. Not harder.

[nikster]

Making the move for Yak and not Turner is still nuts to me lol.

Makes me seriously question Masai’s roster building.

What makes you think Turner was available, or could be gotten for similar value? And this was only the first season Turner looks like he might be better than Yak, so like a half season sample at the deadline

They were shopping Turner for like 2 years straight.

Yak is a very good player but his archetype is literally the worst type of center you can get to fit beside Siakam or Scottie.

But they never dealt him, so what makes you think they'd be willing to trade him for a mid first round pick during his breakout season?

Yak is fine beside Siakam or Scottie. The fit with all 3 of them shooting is obviously a concern but I think your underrating the benefit of a good passer and highly effective rim threat, Poeltl really improved our offense last year. Someone like JV, Capella, or Adams would be much worse

[HumbleRen]

What makes you think Turner was available, or could be gotten for similar value? And this was only the first season Turner looks like he might be better than Yak, so like a half season sample at the deadline

They were shopping Turner for like 2 years straight.

Yak is a very good player but his archetype is literally the worst type of center you can get to fit beside Siakam or Scottie.

But they never dealt him, so what makes you think they'd be willing to trade him for a mid first round pick during his breakout season?

Yak is fine beside Siakam or Scottie. The fit with all 3 of them shooting is obviously a concern but I think your underrating the benefit of a good passer and highly effective rim threat, Poeltl really improved our offense last year. Someone like JV, Capella, or Adams would be much worse

FVV and Poeltl 2 man game made the offence better. Siakam and Scottie took a step back.

Siakam’s FT attempts got cut in half once Poeltl got added to the team.

Now if Siakam can become an above average shooter from the 3 and Scottie can become an average 3 point shooter ? Maybe it can work long term. Otherwise you’re basically building a roster that is objectively not built towards Scottie and Siakam’s strengths.

[sbsat]

What makes you think Turner was available, or could be gotten for similar value? And this was only the first season Turner looks like he might be better than Yak, so like a half season sample at the deadline

They were shopping Turner for like 2 years straight.

Yak is a very good player but his archetype is literally the worst type of center you can get to fit beside Siakam or Scottie.

But they never dealt him, so what makes you think they'd be willing to trade him for a mid first round pick during his breakout season?

Yak is fine beside Siakam or Scottie. The fit with all 3 of them shooting is obviously a concern but I think your underrating the benefit of a good passer and highly effective rim threat, Poeltl really improved our offense last year. Someone like JV, Capella, or Adams would be much worse

Exactly. It would be different of turner was actually traded so we have an accurate gauge of what the pacers were asking for him. Pointless to speculate on this

[WaltFrazier]

They were shopping Turner for like 2 years straight.

Yak is a very good player but his archetype is literally the worst type of center you can get to fit beside Siakam or Scottie.

Not totally true, his passing from the C spot is something that does fit and most centres can't do.

I mean it’s cool that he’s a good passer but Siakam and Scottie are some of the best passers at their position too.

What we need from the center position is for someone to make their lives easier on the offensive end. Not harder.

Yes it would be good if all three were better shooters. The hope is Scottie and Pascal become better. But the fact all three are great passers will hopefully be more valuable in Darko's offense, whereas Nick's offense and Fred's ball dominance didn't maximize the slick passing of these three.

[Los_29]

Making the move for Yak and not Turner is still nuts to me lol.

Makes me seriously question Masai’s roster building.

What makes you think Turner was available, or could be gotten for similar value? And this was only the first season Turner looks like he might be better than Yak, so like a half season sample at the deadline

They were shopping Turner for like 2 years straight.

Yak is a very good player but his archetype is literally the worst type of center you can get to fit beside Siakam or Scottie.

They’ve been shopping him for much longer than two years. Ainge chose to lose Hayward for nothing than to acquire Turner. I like Turner but there is a reason why he’s still a Pacer. There has never been strong interest in him around the league.

[HumbleRen]

Not totally true, his passing from the C spot is something that does fit and most centres can't do.

I mean it’s cool that he’s a good passer but Siakam and Scottie are some of the best passers at their position too.

What we need from the center position is for someone to make their lives easier on the offensive end. Not harder.

Yes it would be good if all three were better shooters. The hope is Scottie and Pascal become better. But the fact all three are great passers will hopefully be more valuable in Darko's offense, whereas Nick's offense and Fred's ball dominance didn't maximize the slick passing of these three.

I respect your optimism but we know what a team looks like without any shooting. You can't overcome it, you can only do bandaids for it.

It's why Nurse reverted to more gimmicky concepts as the team's shooting got worse over the years. I do think Darko will change alot of core principles but he won't find the solution for our offence unless everyone's shooting in the starting line up improves.

[SkywalkerAC]

I mean it’s cool that he’s a good passer but Siakam and Scottie are some of the best passers at their position too.

What we need from the center position is for someone to make their lives easier on the offensive end. Not harder.

Yes it would be good if all three were better shooters. The hope is Scottie and Pascal become better. But the fact all three are great passers will hopefully be more valuable in Darko's offense, whereas Nick's offense and Fred's ball dominance didn't maximize the slick passing of these three.

I respect your optimism but we know what a team looks like without any shooting. You can't overcome it, you can only do bandaids for it.

It's why Nurse reverted to more gimmicky concepts as the team's shooting got worse over the years. I do think Darko will change alot of core principles but he won't find the solution for our offence unless everyone's shooting in the starting line up improves.

But saying we don't have any shooting is untrue. We have two great shooters in the starting lineup (Gary and OG), two developing shooters (would be surprised if Pascal doesn't come back to average), and, contrary to last year, elite shooting off the bench (Gradey, OPJ, McDaniels, Dennis et al).

Shouldn't that be enough for Darko to work with? How would last season have looked different with at least a healthy Otto off the bench? This year we'll have 3 shooting-wings coming off the bench to create some really great shooting lineups. Even just switching Jak out for Dennis for crunch time should make us pretty potent 2-ways.

Dennis
Gary
OG
Pascal
Scottie

I think last year really messed people up for how they think of this team. That's the way it goes sometimes, but it can also go the other way.

[HumbleRen]

Yes it would be good if all three were better shooters. The hope is Scottie and Pascal become better. But the fact all three are great passers will hopefully be more valuable in Darko's offense, whereas Nick's offense and Fred's ball dominance didn't maximize the slick passing of these three.

I respect your optimism but we know what a team looks like without any shooting. You can't overcome it, you can only do bandaids for it.

It's why Nurse reverted to more gimmicky concepts as the team's shooting got worse over the years. I do think Darko will change alot of core principles but he won't find the solution for our offence unless everyone's shooting in the starting line up improves.

But saying we don't have any shooting is untrue. We have two great shooters in the starting lineup (Gary and OG), two developing shooters (would be surprised if Pascal doesn't come back to average), and, contrary to last year, elite shooting off the bench (Gradey, OPJ, McDaniels, Dennis et al).

Shouldn't that be enough for Darko to work with? How would last season have looked different with at least a healthy Otto off the bench? This year we'll have 3 shooting-wings coming off the bench to create some really great shooting lineups. Even just switching Jak out for Dennis for crunch time should make us pretty potent 2-ways.

Dennis
Gary
OG
Pascal
Scottie

I think last year really messed people up for how they think of this team. That's the way it goes sometimes, but it can also go the other way.

GTJ isn't starting. OG is a great catch and shoot shooter. He's horrible in almost every other metric that factors in shooting.

I do agree that our bench depth actually has good shooting talent on paper but ideally you want your STARTING line up to resemble an NBA offence. Our starting line up right now includes zero 3 level scorers, 0 elite shooters, one above average catch and shoot shooter. (2 if GTJ starts). That's just untenable when your starters are all essentially making 20M + per year outside of Scottie.

[SkywalkerAC]

Double post.

[SkywalkerAC]

I respect your optimism but we know what a team looks like without any shooting. You can't overcome it, you can only do bandaids for it.

It's why Nurse reverted to more gimmicky concepts as the team's shooting got worse over the years. I do think Darko will change alot of core principles but he won't find the solution for our offence unless everyone's shooting in the starting line up improves.

But saying we don't have any shooting is untrue. We have two great shooters in the starting lineup (Gary and OG), two developing shooters (would be surprised if Pascal doesn't come back to average), and, contrary to last year, elite shooting off the bench (Gradey, OPJ, McDaniels, Dennis et al).

Shouldn't that be enough for Darko to work with? How would last season have looked different with at least a healthy Otto off the bench? This year we'll have 3 shooting-wings coming off the bench to create some really great shooting lineups. Even just switching Jak out for Dennis for crunch time should make us pretty potent 2-ways.

Dennis
Gary
OG
Pascal
Scottie

I think last year really messed people up for how they think of this team. That's the way it goes sometimes, but it can also go the other way.

GTJ isn't starting. OG is a great catch and shoot shooter. He's horrible in almost every other metric that factors in shooting.

I do agree that our bench depth actually has good shooting talent on paper but ideally you want your STARTING line up to resemble an NBA offence. Our starting line up right now includes zero 3 level scorers, 0 elite shooters, one above average catch and shoot shooter. (2 if GTJ starts). That's just untenable when your starters are all essentially making 20M + per year outside of Scottie.

Good chance you're wrong about the bolded. And OG only has to be a catch and shoot guy with this lineup. That's the advantage of having two point forwards that can bully their way into the paint - we created plenty of open 3s last season, just struggled to knock them down when we went to the bench especially.

Pascal can be a 3 level scorer, just needs that 3-ball uptick. And Gary can be an elite shooter (contract season, has been working like crazy).

[HumbleRen]

But saying we don't have any shooting is untrue. We have two great shooters in the starting lineup (Gary and OG), two developing shooters (would be surprised if Pascal doesn't come back to average), and, contrary to last year, elite shooting off the bench (Gradey, OPJ, McDaniels, Dennis et al).

Shouldn't that be enough for Darko to work with? How would last season have looked different with at least a healthy Otto off the bench? This year we'll have 3 shooting-wings coming off the bench to create some really great shooting lineups. Even just switching Jak out for Dennis for crunch time should make us pretty potent 2-ways.

Dennis
Gary
OG
Pascal
Scottie

I think last year really messed people up for how they think of this team. That's the way it goes sometimes, but it can also go the other way.

GTJ isn't starting. OG is a great catch and shoot shooter. He's horrible in almost every other metric that factors in shooting.

I do agree that our bench depth actually has good shooting talent on paper but ideally you want your STARTING line up to resemble an NBA offence. Our starting line up right now includes zero 3 level scorers, 0 elite shooters, one above average catch and shoot shooter. (2 if GTJ starts). That's just untenable when your starters are all essentially making 20M + per year outside of Scottie.

Good chance you're wrong about the bolded. And OG only has to be a catch and shoot guy with this lineup. That's the advantage of having two point forwards that can bully their way into the paint - we created plenty of open 3s last season, just struggled to knock them down when we went to the bench especially.

Pascal can be a 3 level scorer, just needs that 3-ball uptick. And Gary can be an elite shooter (contract season, has been working like crazy).

I do hope I'm wrong but I think Dennis will get the PG position.

Siakam can get paint touches via a live dribble but we don't know that Scottie can do it. If he can magically double his drives then we might be cooking but once again, Yak clogging up the paint makes it more difficult.

[C_Money]

I wonder if anybody’s in Toronto already. Usually the young players show up early for training camp.

[Mikistan]

I mean it’s cool that he’s a good passer but Siakam and Scottie are some of the best passers at their position too.

What we need from the center position is for someone to make their lives easier on the offensive end. Not harder.

Yes it would be good if all three were better shooters. The hope is Scottie and Pascal become better. But the fact all three are great passers will hopefully be more valuable in Darko's offense, whereas Nick's offense and Fred's ball dominance didn't maximize the slick passing of these three.

I respect your optimism but we know what a team looks like without any shooting. You can't overcome it, you can only do bandaids for it.

It's why Nurse reverted to more gimmicky concepts as the team's shooting got worse over the years. I do think Darko will change alot of core principles but he won't find the solution for our offence unless everyone's shooting in the starting line up improves.

I think we will see ample minutes with both Gary and Gradey sharing the floor this year and I think Gradey’s height and general sniper tendencies will be a very great escape valve for this team.

A lot of worry from posters about our 3pt shooting...
Let's everyone please remember there are almost 9 threes per game to replace for Fred who shot them at nba worst levels on his volume, and last year Boucher and Achiuwa had variance swings that will undoubtably swing positive this year. OG is a sniper, and a big key of successful three point shooting is paint touch 3 passes, you shoot higher percentages receiving the pass from someone in the paint pitching it out. Higher usage of guys in the paint you are worried about vs an iso heavy offense featuring high usage fred and perimeter passes (and telegraphed handoffs 35 feet out ahem) will improve 3pt variance.



As for Scottie, year 8 Scottie is a superstar in this league. He's too good, too big, too long, sees the floor too well and has already shown 2 way takeover potential in many games/quarters.
I have no doubt his 3pt shooting will become serviceable, and I suggest you guys stop worrying about year 3 micro expectations and focus on opportunity/skill development/career trajectory. Giannis developed important playmaking and game management skills playing pg as a specific adjustment Jason Kidd added as coaches changed in his trajectory. Dwayne Wade played PG as a rookie for the Lamar odom/Caron butler heat and I maintain it was paramount for his future playmaking and dynamic star play later in his career. This is the way, embrace it.

Regarding OG is still young but a vet, has shown up big offensively and defensively in the past, is a miss match for anyone guarding him due to his strength and for anyone stronger than him he would be faster/more agile. Think of his iso woes last season as reps that will turn into future successful execution. Think about how many season demar at up inefficient offensive possessions and how much you loved him and that dude was a negative because of his putrid defense. You can't tell me Og is a negative player...

so just tuck in, embrace positivity and just vibe baby

[SkywalkerAC]

GTJ isn't starting. OG is a great catch and shoot shooter. He's horrible in almost every other metric that factors in shooting.

I do agree that our bench depth actually has good shooting talent on paper but ideally you want your STARTING line up to resemble an NBA offence. Our starting line up right now includes zero 3 level scorers, 0 elite shooters, one above average catch and shoot shooter. (2 if GTJ starts). That's just untenable when your starters are all essentially making 20M + per year outside of Scottie.

Good chance you're wrong about the bolded. And OG only has to be a catch and shoot guy with this lineup. That's the advantage of having two point forwards that can bully their way into the paint - we created plenty of open 3s last season, just struggled to knock them down when we went to the bench especially.

Pascal can be a 3 level scorer, just needs that 3-ball uptick. And Gary can be an elite shooter (contract season, has been working like crazy).

I do hope I'm wrong but I think Dennis will get the PG position.

Siakam can get paint touches via a live dribble but we don't know that Scottie can do it. If he can magically double his drives then we might be cooking but once again, Yak clogging up the paint makes it more difficult.

Scottie doesn't need to be able to blow by defenders with complex dribble moves to get into the paint. Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, Sam Cassell all did a lot of damage with the back-down because they weren't blow by guys and they usually had a size advantage (as Scottie will).