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2023 Draft Discussion Part 5

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#921 » by Zeno » Thu May 25, 2023 7:35 pm

MavCarter wrote:
Zeno wrote:There is talk that the Spurs want to get into the late lotto, probably to take Wemby's teammate or something. Imagine the offered us all the stuff from the Poeltl and Thad trades(2024 1st, our 2023 2nd, our 2025, Branham) for 13, Thad. Would you do it? This would essentially undo all previous trades and become Poeltl for the 13th pick.


Only thing valuable in there is our first and every draft expert has called next years draft complete garbage so i’d rather 2024 be the year we give up a pick for jak

Yeah I agree. Just thought I'd throw out the scenario because I found it interesting. There is a benefit to being in full control of our draft going forward though. I wonder what else the Spurs could offer for us to give up this year's pick.
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Please advise….

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#922 » by WuTang_CMB » Thu May 25, 2023 7:40 pm

“There’s a whole crop of players that the agent says there is not a chance they will be on the board at 13 and there’s another crop of players whose agents say ‘you would never take our guy at 13,’ so how do you dance around that and convince both sides ‘let’s be ready for anything that happens on draft night?'” Tolzman said of the Raptors’ position.


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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#923 » by ATLTimekeeper » Thu May 25, 2023 7:40 pm

Dalek wrote:
This has happened with picks in the 30s and I understand that to a degree. At 13, I also kind of wonder whether agents are implying that Toronto is not a preferred landing spot for their guy and this is just a soft way to break it to Tolzman and co. If Toronto was in a US market would it make a difference?

It is a pity that these players aren't going to Toronto for workouts and to see the city and facilities. They are missing out.


Seems like it would be a mistake by the agent not to get their client into the lottery. Even if you don't like that GM or team, lotto picks will last longer in the league just because teams don't want to look stupid for making a bad selection and give them multiple chances, and they make more.

EDIT: Also if you have a player projected in the 30s, I imagine "He just worked out for Toronto, and they only have 13" might be a nice feature to sell to teams.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#924 » by ItsDanger » Thu May 25, 2023 7:46 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
So the Raptors should share trade discussions with an independent agent to create better relationships?

Of course not. Agents are aware of these possibilities if their client is ranked 18-26, or wherever.


So then zero frustration on the agent's part. They're aware that the Raptors could trade down, but since that's unlikely they would rather steer their clients to teams within their projected range.

That's your inference. I would steer my clients away from them also if I felt they weren't serious. Time is an asset.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#925 » by 720 » Thu May 25, 2023 7:52 pm

Fun interview of some of the top prospects.

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#926 » by DreamTeam09 » Thu May 25, 2023 7:53 pm

Victor
Scoot
Miller
A.Thompson
Cam
Black
A.Thompson
Hendicks
Grady Dick
Walker

I think these 10 are firmly in the top 10 / Draft starts at 11 with Orlando
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#927 » by ATLTimekeeper » Thu May 25, 2023 7:55 pm

ItsDanger wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Of course not. Agents are aware of these possibilities if their client is ranked 18-26, or wherever.


So then zero frustration on the agent's part. They're aware that the Raptors could trade down, but since that's unlikely they would rather steer their clients to teams within their projected range.

That's your inference. I would steer my clients away from them also if I felt they weren't serious. Time is an asset.


So again, where's the frustration? The Raptors showed interest, the agent doesn't think they will seriously draft them at 13 and makes a time management decision. It's not that big a deal. Part of their job is to talk to teams about their client.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#928 » by DreamTeam09 » Thu May 25, 2023 7:58 pm

Victor
Scoot
Miller
A.Thompson
Cam
Black
A.Thompson
Hendicks
Grady Dick
Walker

I think these 10 are firmly in the top 10 /

Draft starts at 11 with Orlando

The next 5 to round out the lottery imo

Bilal / Miller / George / Wallace / NSJ / Hawkins / Lawis /


Bufkin doesn't look like he's generating enough top 15 buzz
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2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#929 » by BoyzNTheHood » Thu May 25, 2023 8:02 pm

Reeko wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
Reeko wrote:Well I guess it would be true in most instances, except for in your very specific scenario.

My scenario is only very specific if you aren’t paying attention. There are countless examples of teams drafting the BPA and it not working out. Many players fail because of fit. You just choose to write them off as busts because you don’t understand.

Your scenario is very specific because it's very specific. Generally speaking, and especially for teams drafting in the lottery, the conventional wisdom for smart FO's is to take the BPA. The really good teams drafting at the end of the first round can afford to draft for positional need and fit.

Unfortunately, I can’t go back in time and place guys properly to simplify my point for you. It’s just a fact that guys go to situations that aren’t ideal and it derails their career. BPA isn’t always the best option and it never will be. The best option always has been a combination of BPA + fit whether you want to admit it or not.
deeps6x wrote:I guarantee you that (Jaylen) Brown and (Kris) Dunn are drafted OUT of the top 5.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#930 » by niQ » Thu May 25, 2023 8:02 pm

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#931 » by billy_hoyle » Thu May 25, 2023 8:11 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:Victor
Scoot
Miller
A.Thompson
Cam
Black
A.Thompson
Hendicks
Grady Dick
Walker

I think these 10 are firmly in the top 10 / Draft starts at 11 with Orlando


I'm taking Wallace over a few of those guys.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#932 » by DreamTeam09 » Thu May 25, 2023 8:18 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:Victor
Scoot
Miller
A.Thompson
Cam
Black
A.Thompson
Hendicks
Grady Dick
Walker

I think these 10 are firmly in the top 10 / Draft starts at 11 with Orlando


I'm taking Wallace over a few of those guys.


I think Wallace falls to us if need be, not many teams needs PGs, Black will be the first PG taken due to his size and positional flexibility. Concerns about Wallace back will have him fall to us imo
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#933 » by dozo » Thu May 25, 2023 8:40 pm

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#934 » by Dalek » Thu May 25, 2023 8:48 pm

Reeko wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
Reeko wrote:Yeah, that's generally the M.O. of most smart front offices, you go with the BPA. You don't draft for positional need, that's how the Trail Blazers ended up with Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan. If our FO thinks that GG Jackson has All NBA potential down the road and think that George, Bufkin, and Coulibaly top out at role players, then guess what? They're probably going to take the forward with the higher upside even if the team does need a guard badly.

That’s untrue. BPA isn’t always the best option. If the BPA is a guy who will be stuck as a backup or on the bench it makes no sense to draft them. If a guy fits into your system like a glove it can be better for the long term than drafting a guy who doesn’t fit at all but has the most talent.

Well I guess it would be true in most instances, except for in your very specific scenario.


My own take is that with the draft at 13, you have to go BPA even if there is positional duplication. Toronto needs talented assets and the lottery is where you usually get a shot at it. Pascal has a year left, OG has signaled at times he wants out, and Scottie hasn't always looked the part of a superstar - so our roster or any roster is changeable.

I remember Denver when they had both Jokic and Nurkic and Nurkic was the starter for a couple years. They tried to play them together and it didn't work. It led to Nurkic being dealt to Portland and Jokic ascended to superstardom.

Imagine if Denver didn't burn their Taco Bell commercial 42 pick on Jokic at the time? Toronto would be even crazier to pass on a guy at 13 who is a much more likely to be a star.

Without hesitation, I would draft Dereck Lively despite Poeltl and Koloko if the front office believed in Lively being the next Gobert. Same with GG Jackson over OG/Pascal/Barnes. If there is real is like GG being the next Paul George, then it finally gives you an out with dealing Pascal or others.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#935 » by Dalek » Thu May 25, 2023 8:53 pm

dozo wrote:
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Cam Whitmore
6' 5.75'' w/o shoes
235 lbs
6' 8.50'' wingspan

He has the same wingspan as Cason Wallace and slightly smaller than Gradey Dick's wingspan. The guy would be a great football player, but I don't think he ends up a good basketball player.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#936 » by billy_hoyle » Thu May 25, 2023 9:05 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:Victor
Scoot
Miller
A.Thompson
Cam
Black
A.Thompson
Hendicks
Grady Dick
Walker

I think these 10 are firmly in the top 10 / Draft starts at 11 with Orlando


I'm taking Wallace over a few of those guys.


I think Wallace falls to us if need be, not many teams needs PGs, Black will be the first PG taken due to his size and positional flexibility. Concerns about Wallace back will have him fall to us imo


I hope you're right. I think adding Cason to Barnes, GTJ, and Precious is a solid base to build off of for the future.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#937 » by youreachiteach » Thu May 25, 2023 9:07 pm

They need to get another pick--it's almost imperative given the top heavy nature of the draft and how we need more on Scottie's timeline.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#938 » by Kevin Willis » Thu May 25, 2023 9:07 pm

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#939 » by Kevin Willis » Thu May 25, 2023 9:10 pm

Dalek wrote:
dozo wrote:
Read on Twitter


Cam Whitmore
6' 5.75'' w/o shoes
235 lbs
6' 8.50'' wingspan

He has the same wingspan as Cason Wallace and slightly smaller than Gradey Dick's wingspan. The guy would be a great football player, but I don't think he ends up a good basketball player.


Definite Stanley Johnson vibes. A basketball player that has to get used to the speed of college basketball is a football player. Don't take him.

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#940 » by BoyzNTheHood » Thu May 25, 2023 9:29 pm

Dalek wrote:
dozo wrote:
Read on Twitter


Cam Whitmore
6' 5.75'' w/o shoes
235 lbs
6' 8.50'' wingspan

He has the same wingspan as Cason Wallace and slightly smaller than Gradey Dick's wingspan. The guy would be a great football player, but I don't think he ends up a good basketball player.

He’ll have some great dunks that will have ESPN and the rest of the casuals singing his praises. We know better. If you can’t think the game you’re going to have issues, no matter how athletic you are.
deeps6x wrote:I guarantee you that (Jaylen) Brown and (Kris) Dunn are drafted OUT of the top 5.

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