Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

[InfraRedshaw]

I know some had written him off last time I asked, but now he is back up in the NBA, do yall envision Wigginton as part of our national program future? I would have to think he at least is consideration going forward

[mojo13]

I know some had written him off last time I asked, but now he is back up in the NBA, do yall envision Wigginton as part of our national program future? I would have to think he at least is consideration going forward

I do hope others chime in, as I was likely one of those that discounted him the last time it was asked.

I'm still indifferent with Wigginton. I'm always happy to add more talent to the program, but this is an area of much depth for Team Canada. I'd need to pencil it out, I still doubt Wigginton would currently crack the Top 10-15 of my list of Canadian guards.

He is still only 23 and still improving, but being a deep NBA roster player or grabbing a two-way for a year, isn't all that impressive (Hello Karim Mane) and doesn't by definition make someone a better player than Euro vets that have never touched the NBA. FIBA is a very different game and Wigginton wasn't very good in his only season in Europe (Israel) and he's been a 41/30/70 type shooter in the G-League (ugh). I'm sort of surprised he even received an NBA call-up.

Wigginton shouldn't sniff an NBA laden Canadian roster. And on a "B" of "C" team I'd take still most of the better European PGs and SGs before him (at this time).

Is he really any better than Nik Stauskas, Nate Darling, Trae Bell Haynes, Kenny Chery, Phil Scrubb, Tyler Ennis, Dylan Ennis, Marial Shayok, Mychal Mulder, Kaza Keane, Kevin Pangos, Kassius Robertson, Johnny B? Maybe a couple of them.... But when considering the FIBA game and SMNT experience it would be very tough to make the case that Wigginton would be among the top of this bunch.

Frankly - I still have him in the Olivier Hanlan, Xavier Rathan Mayes type category. Both guys who had NBA stints, but struggled with FIBA (Hanlan game has been more effective in Greece of late) and are more known as fairly athletic and dynamic scorers, but very poor shooters and poor facilitators yet need the ball in their hands to score. That's usually not a very winning combination at higher level pro teams or NTs. Both Hanlan and XRM had stints with the SMNT but were pretty awful fits. One of Canada's worst historic losses (to USVI) came with XRM and Hanlan as the lead guards.

But like I said, he is 23 and it probably it wouldn't be wise to "write him off". And I am interested to see if he can find a role in the NBA (I'm skeptical). I have on the other hand written off XRM and Hanlan from the SMNT.

[InfraRedshaw]

I know some had written him off last time I asked, but now he is back up in the NBA, do yall envision Wigginton as part of our national program future? I would have to think he at least is consideration going forward

I do hope others chime in, as I was likely one of those that discounted him the last time it was asked.

I'm still indifferent with Wigginton. I'm always happy to add more talent to the program, but this is an area of much depth for Team Canada. I'd need to pencil it out, I still doubt Wigginton would currently crack the Top 10-15 of my list of Canadian guards.

He is still only 23 and still improving, but being a deep NBA roster player or grabbing a two-way for a year, isn't all that impressive (Hello Karim Mane) and doesn't by definition make someone a better player than Euro vets that have never touched the NBA. FIBA is a very different game and Wigginton wasn't very good in his only season in Europe (Israel) and he's been a 41/30/70 type shooter in the G-League (ugh). I'm sort of surprised he even received an NBA call-up.

Wigginton shouldn't sniff an NBA laden Canadian roster. And on a "B" of "C" team I'd take still most of the better European PGs and SGs before him (at this time).

Is he really any better than Nik Stauskas, Nate Darling, Trae Bell Haynes, Kenny Chery, Phil Scrubb, Tyler Ennis, Dylan Ennis, Marial Shayok, Mychal Mulder, Kaza Keane, Kevin Pangos, Kassius Robertson, Johnny B? Maybe a couple of them.... But when considering the FIBA game and SMNT experience it would be very tough to make the case that Wigginton would be among the top of this bunch.

Frankly - I still have him in the Olivier Hanlan, Xavier Rathan Mayes type category. Both guys who had NBA stints, but struggled with FIBA (Hanlan game has been more effective in Greece of late) and are more known as fairly athletic and dynamic scorers, but very poor shooters and poor facilitators yet need the ball in their hands to score. That's usually not a very winning combination at higher level pro teams or NTs. Both Hanlan and XRM had stints with the SMNT but were pretty awful fits. One of Canada's worst historic losses (to USVI) came with XRM and Hanlan as the lead guards.

But like I said, he is 23 and it probably it wouldn't be wise to "write him off". And I am interested to see if he can find a role in the NBA (I'm skeptical). I have on the other hand written off XRM and Hanlan from the SMNT.

Makes sense, we are loaded at the guard spots really! Just interested in yalls thoughts on him is all!
I agree FIBA game is a different beast but you never know what a player can do with NBA developmental coaches around them (so fingers crossed he can take a few more steps!)

[mojo13]

Less than 48 hours out and still no 12 man roster (Canada Basketball makes it hard to be a fan). After tiresome scanning of social media feeds almost all core guys have sort of been ID'd at camp. Keane and TBH attendance implied due to articles and "playlists".

Only Kyle Wiltjer and Anthony Bennett seem missing (Bennett totally expected from my perspective).
If Wiltjer is not there we have a massive hole at PF along with missing our best offensive weapon. Hopefully he shows up in pictures soon.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Less than 48 hours out and still no 12 man roster (Canada Basketball makes it hard to be a fan). After tiresome scanning of social media feeds almost all core guys have sort of been ID'd at camp. Keane and TBH attendance implied due to articles and "playlists".

Only Kyle Wiltjer and Anthony Bennett seem missing (Bennett totally expected from my perspective).
If Wiltjer is not there we have a massive hole at PF along with missing our best offensive weapon. Hopefully he shows up in pictures soon.

Yikes, Wiltjer would be a big loss if he isn't there. He was clearly the best player on the court in the last couple of games. We'll need that offence. Hopefully he shows.

[mojo13]

Less than 48 hours out and still no 12 man roster (Canada Basketball makes it hard to be a fan). After tiresome scanning of social media feeds almost all core guys have sort of been ID'd at camp. Keane and TBH attendance implied due to articles and "playlists".

Only Kyle Wiltjer and Anthony Bennett seem missing (Bennett totally expected from my perspective).
If Wiltjer is not there we have a massive hole at PF along with missing our best offensive weapon. Hopefully he shows up in pictures soon.

Yikes, Wiltjer would be a big loss if he isn't there. He was clearly the best player on the court in the last couple of games. We'll need that offence. Hopefully he shows.

Still no photo evidence of Wiltjer but he is being tagged by basketball Canada on a couple Instagram posts along with 11 other players.

It seems the 12 will be:
Alexander, Best, Mukama, Robertson, P. Scrubb, T. Scrubb, Young, Keane, TBH, Chery, Wiltjer, Klassen (not tagged but there photos of him there). There has been photoevidence of every one of these guys but Wltjer.

Still not official though.

Depth chart:
Cherry (TBH, Keane)
P. Scrubb (Robertson, Best)
T. Scrubb (Mukama)
Wiltjer (Young)
Alexander (Klassen)


Excellent guards with 6 high caliber guys capable of big minutes & outings. A meaningful advantage over DR. We will see many different combinations along w. plenty of 3-guard lineups (eg. Best at the 3 and T Scrubb as a 4). Young is going to be pressed for some minutes at the 4.

The key battle will be upfront with Alexander/Wiltjer versus Eloy Vargas/Angel Delago. DR with the interior size/strength advantage and Canada with the superior athleticism/rim protection from Alexander and the masterful shooting and offensive arsenal from Kyle Wiltjer.

The depth at SF/PF seems to be the main concern for Canada and hopefully Thomas Scrubb and Kyle Wilter stay out of foul trouble. Tommy in particular is a very active and intense defender.


EDIT: Photo evidence of Kyle Wiltjer has been found.

[WaltFrazier]

RJ Barret has 39 after three quarters vs Miami

[GoRaptors]

Less than 48 hours out and still no 12 man roster (Canada Basketball makes it hard to be a fan). After tiresome scanning of social media feeds almost all core guys have sort of been ID'd at camp. Keane and TBH attendance implied due to articles and "playlists".

Only Kyle Wiltjer and Anthony Bennett seem missing (Bennett totally expected from my perspective).
If Wiltjer is not there we have a massive hole at PF along with missing our best offensive weapon. Hopefully he shows up in pictures soon.

Yikes, Wiltjer would be a big loss if he isn't there. He was clearly the best player on the court in the last couple of games. We'll need that offence. Hopefully he shows.

I think Canada Basketball waits on displaying the roster until close to the last minute to make it more difficult for the opposition to prepare for the game.

[frumble]

Canada up 6 at the half.
Alexander, Wiltjer, and Young with two fouls each. Klassen got in briefly near the end of Q2.

https://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2023/americas-qualifiers/game/2402/Canada-Dominican-Republic#tab=boxscore

[aminiaturebuddha]

Tough gritty 85-79 win for Canada in a game that had absolutely no flow, mostly because the DR spent more time at the free throw line than they did actually playing on the offensive end.

Before the last 1:10, when the DR started fouling to try to stop the clock, the free throw discrepancy was 40-8. Ended 44-16, which is still pretty bad. In a weird way, the refs might have done Canada a favour as the DR couldn't hit their free throws at all (24-44) so maybe it was Canada's best defence! lol

Anyway, some tense moments near the end, especially a giveaway and break in the final couple of minutes that could have cut it to 4, but the DR blew the layup. Still, some good clutch moments by Bell-Haynes, Wiltjer (who had a sub-par game for him), and the usual excellent defence from Thomas Scrubb.

Some solid play once again by Kyle Alexander, until he fouled out. So glad they got him to be part of the program for these qualifying windows.

[SharoneWright]

That free-throw disparity seems implausible

[aminiaturebuddha]

Canada taking care of business against the Virgin Islands so far 42-21 at the half. It's giving Coach Nate a chance to give some minutes to more of the deep bench guys, including Kalif Young, who looked really good in his minutes after fouling out yesterday, and for the first time ever in a Canadian uniform, Jean-Victor Mukama, who I basically know nothing about.

It's nice that these guys who are giving their time to the program actually get a chance to play.

By the way, Kalif Young is an interesting player. There wasn't much in his 4 years at Providence that suggested to me that he was a future pro or Team Canada guy, but he's obviously a hard worker and seems to be making somewhat of a career for himself. It's great to see.

[Kenter16]

Have we heard anything about the 'Summer Core'? There was some talk that they would announce at least some of these players during this window.

[DreamTeam09]

So can we still make the Olympics, what was this tournament for ??

[UcanUwill]

So can we still make the Olympics, what was this tournament for ??

World cup qualifiers.

[aminiaturebuddha]

So can we still make the Olympics, what was this tournament for ??

It wasn't a tournament, just two games both played in the DR because of Covid restrictions. FIBA has moved to FIFA-style qualification windows. This is to qualify for the FIBA Basketball World Cup in 2023, which will then in turn be used to qualify teams for the Olympics in 2024.

This is the first qualification round. There will be two more games at the beginning of July, and then the top 3 teams from each group of 4 will advance to the next qualification round (Canada is currently 1st in their group with the DR, Bahamas, and Virgin Islands). The second round consists of another 3 windows of 2 games each against the three teams from one of the other round 1 groups. Then the top 7 teams qualify for the World Cup.

[mojo13]

Have we heard anything about the 'Summer Core'? There was some talk that they would announce at least some of these players during this window.

Nope. Mike Bartlett (new CEO of Canada Basketball) was on the radio a few weeks ago saying they were going to announce it around this time. But not a peep since.

I'm not sure I see the value in announcing anything. It is always too fluid and guys will inevitably drop out (injury, free agency etc) and the guys who are not announced as part of the core will get all sorts of questions from fans and media, when they could easily show up in the summer.

If we do see a "core" list I'm gonna guess it is excessively long - like 24 guys plus and really meaningless as all these NBA heavy prelim lists have been in the past. All that matters is who actually shows up for the World Cup at this point. Who plays this summer is somewhat insightful but god knows if they will join the team for the World Cup.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Have we heard anything about the 'Summer Core'? There was some talk that they would announce at least some of these players during this window.

Nope. Mike Bartlett (new CEO of Canada Basketball) was on the radio a few weeks ago saying they were going to announce it around this time. But not a peep since.

I'm not sure I see the value in announcing anything. It is always too fluid and guys will inevitably drop out (injury, free agency etc) and the guys who are not announced as part of the core will get all sorts of questions from fans and media, when they could easily show up in the summer.

If we do see a "core" list I'm gonna guess it is excessively long - like 24 guys plus and really meaningless as all these NBA heavy prelim lists have been in the past. All that matters is who actually shows up for the World Cup at this point. Who plays this summer is somewhat insightful but god knows if they will join the team for the World Cup.

Yeah, it's always a crap shoot. Agreed that a list right now wouldn't really mean anything other than give us fodder for discussion and speculation.

Speaking of speculation, I had a quick look at the contracts of some of the key NBA guys to see who might be obvious candidates to bow out for the World Cup if they're in a free agency summer. Looks like it could be quite a few (Wiggins, Brooks, Powell, and others like Barrett who will be looking for extensions). Would still be a solid core of Murray, SGA, Olynyk if they show up, but that's a big if.

Jamal Murray - Contract until 2025
SGA - Contract until 2026
Lu Dort - Team option for 2022-23, so I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get him signed to an extension this summer
RJ Barrett - Will be heading into his Qualifying Offer season in summer of 2023, but likely Knicks get him to sign an extension before that rather than risk him heading to free agency, although it might depend on when that extension gets signed.
Andrew Wiggins - Free agent
Dillon Brooks - Free agent
Brandon Clarke - Same as Barrett, QO summer
Kelly Olynyk - Contract until 2024
Cory Joseph - Player option this summer, if exercised he'll be a free agent
Dwight Powell - Free agent
Trey Lyles - Cheap team option this summer, so likely free agent 2023
Khem Birch - Contract until 2024
Chris Boucher - Free agent this summer, likely looking for multi-year deal and would be under contract in 2023
NAW - Same as Barrett and Clarke
Tristan Thompson - Free agent this summer, so who knows at this point in his career

[mojo13]

Final part 5 of HairCanada's deep dive into future of the Big Man for Canada.
https://www.onpointbasketball.com/the-future-of-canadian-basketball-in-the-paint-part-5-high-school-bigs-and-concluding-thoughts/

First, let me say as a voracious consumer of all things Canada Basketball related, Hair's writing is among the best you will find out there in terms of historical and current knowledge of players (from prospects to pros), detailed analysis on development paths of prospects and fundamental all-around bball knowledge. It is great to see his writing published to a wider audience.


Digesting this 5 part series I'm pretty neutral on Canada's future in the paint. As Hair points out there are likely no NBA stars (or even starters) coming through the pipeline anytime soon.

Yeah maybe some guys will surprise, but they usually don't and as history shows us they are more likely to turn the other direction.
Still there is enough volume of prospects (and current pros) that there should be something in the cupboard when Canada needs it. Also pointed out by Hair this is a position where we just need someone to hold don the fort while the guards and wings are what propels this program to the great heights.

Right now, I think a couple Kyle Alexander types surrounded by the NBA studs would be a medal contender. But we sure need more than one (Kabengele?).

Birch, Olynyk and Powell likely still have more to give Canada. But all have their limitations and we need more than just one to show up. Or at least an Alexander or Kabengele behind them. Tristan Thompson I'd guess is more likely to never player for Canada again than he is. But he would be a nice beefy back-up well into his 30s. Edey, Aimaq, Bediako, Boayke - a couple of those guys should get to Alexanders level. Maybe beyond.

I still think we will struggle for Center depth among these "winter core" teams for years - but frankly I don't think that will matter too much. We will still qualify for World Cups, but we may miss out on some FIBA ranking points by losing to teams like VEN, ARG, DR, BRA, USA from time to time.

[mojo13]

Have we heard anything about the 'Summer Core'? There was some talk that they would announce at least some of these players during this window.

Nope. Mike Bartlett (new CEO of Canada Basketball) was on the radio a few weeks ago saying they were going to announce it around this time. But not a peep since.

I'm not sure I see the value in announcing anything. It is always too fluid and guys will inevitably drop out (injury, free agency etc) and the guys who are not announced as part of the core will get all sorts of questions from fans and media, when they could easily show up in the summer.

If we do see a "core" list I'm gonna guess it is excessively long - like 24 guys plus and really meaningless as all these NBA heavy prelim lists have been in the past. All that matters is who actually shows up for the World Cup at this point. Who plays this summer is somewhat insightful but god knows if they will join the team for the World Cup.

Yeah, it's always a crap shoot. Agreed that a list right now wouldn't really mean anything other than give us fodder for discussion and speculation.

Speaking of speculation, I had a quick look at the contracts of some of the key NBA guys to see who might be obvious candidates to bow out for the World Cup if they're in a free agency summer. Looks like it could be quite a few (Wiggins, Brooks, Powell, and others like Barrett who will be looking for extensions). Would still be a solid core of Murray, SGA, Olynyk if they show up, but that's a big if.

Jamal Murray - Contract until 2025
SGA - Contract until 2026
Lu Dort - Team option for 2022-23, so I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get him signed to an extension this summer
RJ Barrett - Will be heading into his Qualifying Offer season in summer of 2023, but likely Knicks get him to sign an extension before that rather than risk him heading to free agency, although it might depend on when that extension gets signed.
Andrew Wiggins - Free agent
Dillon Brooks - Free agent
Brandon Clarke - Same as Barrett, QO summer
Kelly Olynyk - Contract until 2024
Cory Joseph - Player option this summer, if exercised he'll be a free agent
Dwight Powell - Free agent
Trey Lyles - Cheap team option this summer, so likely free agent 2023
Khem Birch - Contract until 2024
Chris Boucher - Free agent this summer, likely looking for multi-year deal and would be under contract in 2023
NAW - Same as Barrett and Clarke
Tristan Thompson - Free agent this summer, so who knows at this point in his career

Olynyk's deal is a partial guarantee of $3M for 2023/24 season - the other $9M is not fully guaranteed until 3 days before the season.
That throws a wrinkle into things. But I do wonder if guys his age have made enough and stop worrying about it ala CoJo this past season. Or they guys on small year by year deals dont have much to lose - ala Trey Lyles (I think was a UFA too this summer).

The positive note is the World Cup runs from Fri, Aug 25, 2023 – Sun, Sep 10, 2023 so many of the 2023 FAs should be sorted out well ahead of that. But they still would need to consider if they'd play the WC when heading to a new team. They will face varying degrees of pressure from clubs and agents not to do that.