OT: Leafs/NHL Thread

[gp2015]

I’m not a big leaf follower but is Auston Mathews the Demar of hockey. I never seem to hear his name much in the playoffs.

Did DeMar ever win MVP? Matthews is a legit top 5 player. They’re completely different sports.

Doesn't matter is he's a top 5 player if he continually comes up short in the playoffs, when it matters most.

He might as well be Demar of hockey in the playoffs.

[Raps in 4]

I’m not a big leaf follower but is Auston Mathews the Demar of hockey. I never seem to hear his name much in the playoffs.

Did DeMar ever win MVP? Matthews is a legit top 5 player. They’re completely different sports.

Doesn't matter is he's a top 5 player if he continually comes up short in the playoffs, when it matters most.

He might as well be Demar of hockey in the playoffs.

Matthews is a lot better in his sport than Demar is in his, but he is also a choker. I think you could win a title with Matthews though (with the right team around him). You definitely couldn't with Demar.

Matthews would be more like a Harden, Tatum, or Embiid. Great regular season performer but he can disappear in the playoffs.

[Hottie McShotty]

Did they fire the entire front office and coach yet?

[SFour]

I’m not a big leaf follower but is Auston Mathews the Demar of hockey. I never seem to hear his name much in the playoffs.

Did DeMar ever win MVP? Matthews is a legit top 5 player. They’re completely different sports.

Doesn't matter is he's a top 5 player if he continually comes up short in the playoffs, when it matters most.

He might as well be Demar of hockey in the playoffs.

He's more like Embiid....MVP caliber player but falls short in the playoffs....Embiid might finally make it out the 2nd round though, we'll have to wait and see.

[wegotthabeet]

I’m not a big leaf follower but is Auston Mathews the Demar of hockey. I never seem to hear his name much in the playoffs.

Did DeMar ever win MVP? Matthews is a legit top 5 player. They’re completely different sports.

Doesn't matter is he's a top 5 player if he continually comes up short in the playoffs, when it matters most.

He might as well be Demar of hockey in the playoffs.

it's a different sport!

in basketball a player as good as Matthews would be on the court 44+ minutes (i.e 90+% of the time) vs. 1/3 of the game in hockey. you can't impact a game on the same level. does McDavid continuously choke since he has zero rings? winning the Stanley Cup is just more difficult, more random than the Larry O'B. simple as that. and McDavid is really the only definitively better player in the world. Matthews is arguably number 2.

[will]

I’m not a big leaf follower but is Auston Mathews the Demar of hockey. I never seem to hear his name much in the playoffs.

Did DeMar ever win MVP? Matthews is a legit top 5 player. They’re completely different sports.

Doesn't matter is he's a top 5 player if he continually comes up short in the playoffs, when it matters most.

He might as well be Demar of hockey in the playoffs.

OOF!

[canz55]

Our highest paid players (Mathews, Tavares, Marner) had 1 goal between them over 5 games. You can't win when your salary is structured that way, and those guys don't perform.

It would be like Jay's lineup not registering a single RBI hit in the playoffs. No one would tolerate it.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

[gp2015]

Did DeMar ever win MVP? Matthews is a legit top 5 player. They’re completely different sports.

Doesn't matter is he's a top 5 player if he continually comes up short in the playoffs, when it matters most.

He might as well be Demar of hockey in the playoffs.

it's a different sport!

in basketball a player as good as Matthews would be on the court 44+ minutes (i.e 90+% of the time) vs. 1/3 of the game in hockey. you can't impact a game on the same level. does McDavid continuously choke since he has zero rings? winning the Stanley Cup is just more difficult, more random than the Larry O'B. simple as that. and McDavid is really the only definitively better player in the world. Matthews is arguably number 2.

Sure McDavid has not won a cup but he doesn't continually choke in the playoffs like Mathews does.

Matthews has 44 pts in 50 playoffs games. McDavid has 74 pts in 48 games. That's 30 more points in less games. That's big. Mathews can't even play at the same level he does in the regular season. That's choking.

I don't follow hockey that much anymore but I'm guessing Matthews has had a much better team around him all these years as well.

At least you could say McDavid did all he could to help his team win. Don't think you can say the same about Matthews. I don't put the blame all on him but he is a big part of the problem in that he continually comes up short during playoff time.

[tms]

I don't know what the answers are but I hope it's a simple fix (like the team quit on Keefe or something). Matthews is my fav Leaf of all-time but he'd been playing at half-speed for months imo. In the playoffs it didn't get much better, a lot of gliding and sitting on his back foot, failing to bring the same tenacity that had become his trademark. He also used to be the loose puck KING- he'd come out of every scrum with the puck, like he had it on a string, it was a sight to behold. He'd be playing angles with the dexterity and sleight of hand of David Blaine lol. Must have deflated so many teams. And his clutch factor was always Mamba level: give him any space at all and he'd murder you. Now, he's almost evolved into a systems guy. To his credit, responsible defensively, more disciplined, still plays with his head on swivel and become really adept on draws. That all helps. But at what cost? Should he be filling lanes or dictating the play himself?

Whether that' was due to Keefe or some injury/issue (e.g., groin? Confidence?), I have no clue. But I hope it's not just that his game has regressed. I don't want him to be one of those guys who peaks at 23 yo. That would be such a shame.

[KL78192020]

I’m not a big leaf follower but is Auston Mathews the Demar of hockey. I never seem to hear his name much in the playoffs.

Did DeMar ever win MVP? Matthews is a legit top 5 player. They’re completely different sports.

Doesn't matter is he's a top 5 player if he continually comes up short in the playoffs, when it matters most.

He might as well be Demar of hockey in the playoffs.

I don't think Matthews can even be traded he has a no movement clause. He's probably going to leave as a free agent and go to his hometown Coyotes.

They have the caps space in 2024.

[bballsparkin]

The two best players in the league play on the same team. Edmonton. Number 3 is up for grabs sure. But the top two is taken. These playoffs have shown that. Hell, Draisaitl often looks like the best player. He's giving me Mario chills.

edit: big and dominant. not mario obviously.

[bballsparkin]

Sure McDavid has not won a cup but he doesn't continually choke in the playoffs like Mathews does.

Matthews has 44 pts in 50 playoffs games. McDavid has 74 pts in 48 games. That's 30 more points in less games. That's big. Mathews can't even play at the same level he does in the regular season. That's choking.

I don't follow hockey that much anymore but I'm guessing Matthews has had a much better team around him all these years as well.

At least you could say McDavid did all he could to help his team win. Don't think you can say the same about Matthews. I don't put the blame all on him but he is a big part of the problem in that he continually comes up short during playoff time.

Leon Draisaitl has 48 games 31 goals 46 assists 77 points. Only McDavid is in his conversation.

[Dr Positivity]

The two best players in the league play on the same team. Edmonton. Number 3 is up for grabs sure. But the top two is taken. These playoffs have shown that. Hell, Draisaitl often looks like the best player. He's giving me Mario chills.

edit: big and dominant. not mario obviously.

Idk he's a great player and definitely better than Matthews but I feel like Drai was in the right place at the right time for a lot of his goal these playoffs (not that finishing these isn't a skill), he only has 1 assist in the last 7 games which makes sense to me as despite his stats it's still felt like it's McDavid is the clear more noticeable one creating to me the last few weeks, and now Drai's goals are starting to slow down. I still like prime Malkin more for 2nd superstar teams.

[Dennis 37]

Stopped being a fan a long time ago. Just can't invest heavily into two teams. When I channel surfed into the Florida series what I saw was a Florida team which was made up of faster skaters or they just wanted it more.

[Raps in 4]

The two best players in the league play on the same team. Edmonton. Number 3 is up for grabs sure. But the top two is taken. These playoffs have shown that. Hell, Draisaitl often looks like the best player. He's giving me Mario chills.

edit: big and dominant. not mario obviously.

Oilers are a game away from choking too.

[bballsparkin]

The two best players in the league play on the same team. Edmonton. Number 3 is up for grabs sure. But the top two is taken. These playoffs have shown that. Hell, Draisaitl often looks like the best player. He's giving me Mario chills.

edit: big and dominant. not mario obviously.

Idk he's a great player and definitely better than Matthews but I feel like Drai was in the right place at the right time for a lot of his goal these playoffs (not that finishing these isn't a skill), he only has 1 assist in the last 7 games which makes sense to me as despite his stats it's still felt like it's McDavid is the clear more noticeable one creating to me the last few weeks, and now Drai's goals are starting to slow down. I still like prime Malkin more for 2nd superstar teams.

Well prime Malkin was a pretty good 2nd superstar hah. Drai has been electric. Of course he's slowing down he scored 6 goals in 6 periods. Can't keep that up. He plays big as well. McDavid is McDavid. As one writer put it Connor is already on the Mt Rushmore with Orr, Mario, and Gretzky. Big game tonight.

[bballsparkin]

The two best players in the league play on the same team. Edmonton. Number 3 is up for grabs sure. But the top two is taken. These playoffs have shown that. Hell, Draisaitl often looks like the best player. He's giving me Mario chills.

edit: big and dominant. not mario obviously.

Oilers are a game away from choking too.

It's not because of Connor and Draisaitl. The Oilers gave Jack Campbell $5M per for 5 years. Not exactly the best run franchise.

[gp2015]

Harden and Embiid pulling a Matthews.

[GQStylin]

I know it feels like a double standard, where players only seem to want to be going south of the border, but it is a dynamic of the league and other factors (weather/taxes). 2/3rds of the league is located in the US. So naturally, more opportunities south of the border. Combine that with the nicer weather and lower taxes (no state taxes in some cases) and you see why the draw is for players to go south of the border. Layer in the media and fan attention for hockey players in Canada, and yet another reason for players to go south (more obscurity). Not that there are no Canadians that don't want to play for Canadian teams. McDavid signed an 8 year extension to stay in Edmonton. Tavares signed as a FA in Toronto (even though he was probably offered more money by SJ).

As I said I can understand why free agents wouldn't want to sign for a Canadian team, but you'd think some American born players wouldn't mind sticking with the team that drafted and developed them because of the ties they created over the years from when they were drafted until their mid-20s when they become free agents and instead of choosing to leave that perhaps they would stay. At any rate it just sucks that they leave instead of wanting to stay and its why I think its somewhat unfair to criticise Canadian teams for not being able to win the cup for so long when they have the deck stacked against them.

Why would he want to leave: more money, better chance at winning, closer to home, lower taxes, avoid Toronto media scrutiny etc.

The decision on Matthews is immediately after the playoffs. Either he signs an extension immediately (which if one was in the works you think you might have already heard about it), or they have to move him. As soon as he hits FA they can lose him for nothing.

Any team that could sign Matthews and give him the money he's looking for will likely not be competing for the cup or else that team would face something similar to the Leafs where they have to get rid of possibly good players to fit a big Matthews contract into their cap. I don't know how many cup contending teams could be able to do this even if they were willing to give up the assets to get him.

Also when talking about being under the microscope in Canada, I don't know why athletes would want to avoid playing hockey in a market that cares passionately about the game and will come out with strong suppor for their team nearly every year unless they really suck for multiple years or something. Unless I'm missing something this doesn't seem to be nearly as much an issue in the NFL, NBA or baseball where star players choose to go to small market teams to avoid the media and fanatical fans and possible criticism if they play poorly.

In terms of the Leafs D, it looks better than in past years, but still cannot be regarded as one of the best defenses in the league, which limits their title contention. And D is not just the two guys on the back end. It is also the 3 forwards being responsible defensively on the ice and the goaltender. Areas the Leafs are weak in. Again, focus of this team is more on the offensive creativity side, vs the defensive awareness. It is plays like Marner and Matthews trying to make slick plays at their own blueline, rather than just getting the puck up the boards. They cough it up at their blueline, and it turns into a quality scoring opportunity for the opposition. But that play by them is the nature of their games. Once they give the puck up, it can be harder for them to get it back, because a player like Marner is not going to body someone off the puck. So they turn to their skill.

Well for this year's playoffs the facts say otherwise. 4/5 games against the Panthers were one goal games. 4/5 games the Leafs didn't give up more than 3 goals in the Florida series. However on the other side, the Leafs NEVER scored more than 2 goals the ENTIRE Florida series and they only scored more than 2 goals 3 TIMES THE WHOLE PLAYOFFS and that's including the 7-2 blowout against Tampa in game 2.

You can't win only scoring more than 2 goals 3 out of 11 games in the playoffs. This year the goaltending and defense played well enough to give the Leafs a chance to win games while the offense played well below what they are capable of and its what ultimately cost them the Florida series. The interesting thing is that the Leafs were able to score against the Lightning with much fewer good chances while the Panthers gave the Leafs plenty of great chances that they failed to score on.

5/6 games in the Tampa series they looked better than the Leafs most of the time on the ice and the Leafs still found a way to win. In pretty much every game against the Panthers I felt the Leafs were as good if not better in most of those games and yet they couldn't find a way to win. If the Leafs offense scores even a little more they're probably leading this series if not already have won it. People all the time say that the Leafs ability to prevent goals is their weakness and while I don't disagree that they can improve, I've always maintained that their inability to score in the playoffs is the bigger problem.

Whether Matthews is ever able to deliver like those players is a question still to be answered. But coming into the league and to this point, Matthews is discussed along the lines of McDavid, being the next generation of superstars in the league. But his game is probably more like Ovie's than either Crosby or Malkin, in that he is looking for his own shot most of the time.

When Matthews came into the league and people were comparing him to McDavid, the way Matthews played in his first few years made that comparison more reasonable. In the past couple of seasons even with his 60 goal year last year, we clearly see that McDavid is the better player. Matthews has a great shot although maybe this year it was hampered by injuries that saw him from looking like a great player to merely a good one. This entire season he seemed off and not looking like he did in previous years. I'm just hoping that's mostly to do with injuries and not something else.

The two things that McDavid has that Matthews doesn't is speed and great puckhandling skills. Most of Matthews goals come from his shot and putting in goals around the net. McDavid much like Draisaitl can score on you in any number of ways from using their shot to deking the goalie out of their pants. Nylander has that sort of speed and scoring/puckhandling ability although he doesn't show it enough compared to McDavid or a MacKinnon.

If Matthews had better speed he'd be an even better play, but unfortunately he lacks that and so it makes him less of a threat on offense compared to McDavid. Right now Matthews is looking like a great player in his career and maybe even a generational one if he can stay healthy and play his best, but McDavid is already well on his way to being considered one of the all time greats in the game. So trying to compare the two is abit unfair to Matthews when McDavid is on a level above almost everyone else.

Problem was their money was then spent on Marner and Nylander, tying up their flexibility to balance their roster. I'm suggesting moving Matthews because of the 4 he has the greatest value to other teams, and therefore the Leafs would get more in return. I can't imagine teams would offer up much for Marner. Very talented offensively, but at $11M and needing a top line C, why would a team trade talent to bring that back?

What's the point of drafting and developing star level players if you aren't willing to pay them to retain them? You can say that some of them performed below expectations when it mattered most in the playoffs, but every sane GM would sign their best young players and run with them and see how far they get with them. Sometimes it works out and other times it doesn't, but I don't see any problem with giving this core a few shots and now that they've shown that even with extra help its not enough, then moving out one or more of the core shouldn't be out of the question.

Also Dubas will forever be criticised for 'overplaying' some of his players, but as I said Nylander now looks like a great contract even though back then people were angry at Dubas for 'caving in' and Matthews is the face of your franchise so I don't know why its an issue to pay him and Marner is the only one that you can make the case that's 'overpaid' by a couple of million or so. Even if both Marner and Matthews collectively take 3-4 million less, while that isn't nothing that little bit of extra money shouldn't be the difference between winning and losing in the playoffs.

Point was MacKinnon will age like every other player and his impact will begin to lessen. Combined with them losing talent as the large salaries they have given to their core squeeze out other players (such as Kadri), the talent level of the team overall will drop causing them to drop off as a playoff contender.

I think as long as he's healthy MacKinnon will still be a great player well into his 30s like Crosby is right now. I don't think he's going to drop off a cliff anytime soon. Also losing Kadri isn't nothing to the Avs, but it was injuries that killed them the most this year and they still were able to get into the playoffs comfortably once their best players came back. If the Avs are healthy and they can improve their team abit they'll be right there at the top and be Stanley cup favorites again.

While some wingers might have more leeway to free lance on the ice, and Marner is a player like that, they still have responsibilities defensively. If the puck is in their end in the corner, the C is expected to support the D (wingers are supposed to cover the points). If Marner was more physically capable of filling all the roles of a C, he would probably have been put in that role at an early age. Best players are usually put at C or D, from an early age. Marner may have started off as a C when he was younger, and then was moved to wing later on when his size dictated it.

A guy like Nick Suzuki isn't exactly super big or physical and yet he's playing center for the Habs. If Marner tried who knows how it would turn out.

While goaltenders may seem less predictable now, I think it is because they are all becoming more uniform in their size and style of play. And so whether they are on or off becomes more of a focus. Back in the day, there were more individual goaltenders that tended to carry teams (Roy, Hasek, Belfour, Brodeur, Joseph), and I think because the variability of goaltenders was so great in terms of their play, those that were more consistently good stood out, and appeared more consistent.

Maybe, maybe not. Hard to say one way or the other. Having a goalie that can play well almost every game is tough and having them do it consistently for years is even tougher which is why its somewhat rare to see these days. If there's one position that you should try your best to not overpay for its definitely for a goalie.

[Tor_Raps]

The two best players in the league play on the same team. Edmonton. Number 3 is up for grabs sure. But the top two is taken. These playoffs have shown that. Hell, Draisaitl often looks like the best player. He's giving me Mario chills.

edit: big and dominant. not mario obviously.

Oilers are a game away from choking too.

It's not because of Connor and Draisaitl. The Oilers gave Jack Campbell $5M per for 5 years. Not exactly the best run franchise.

Exactly... when the Oilers lose, it's not because of their top 2 players. They show up always! Same can't be said for rhe leafs "top dogs"