Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[Tha Cynic]

Kobe led the league in turnovers multiple times....

No he didn't.

Not once did he lead the league in total turnovers or turnovers per game. And he only averaged 4+ tpg twice in his career, and one of those was during his 6-game Achilles injury season.

I could have sworn I had heard that more than once, my bad. Nevertheless, now that I actually looked at the turnover leaders it IS almost always guys with the ball in their hands a lot. Steve Nash led the league a couple of times and was usually in the top 5. LeBron, Harden, Durant in the top 5 many, many times. It's pretty standard for ball handlers to have a higher turnover rate. It's the least of my worries with him. The stupid fouls bothered me way more.

I don't think we even need to dig that deep (though it is standard for even veterans who handle the ball to have high turnovers). The guy is learning how to run a team in a season where the Raptors are expected to develop. And then we're complaining about turnovers. Either you want him to learn through reps or you need to trade him for an established player in his prime who's a low turnover guy. People need to make up their minds.

We can all see the turnovers. But we can also see the great that comes out of him dictating play and running the team. He needs to clean it up, but what we're seeing is great progress.

[Indeed]

Darko let us get down by 20 before allowing Siakam to go iso to break the run. It shouldn't be too long before the wheels come off.

Yeah a lot of Ls for almost everyone outside of OG and maybe Jak. We lost those two guys and it killed us. But Darko is definately making a mistake not encouraging Pascal to take that mid range shot, especially when droughts occur. The whole thing they are trying to do here is unbelievably tricky and is almost certainly guaranteed to fail in some of it's objectives. We will not maximize Pascal's value and Scottie's development, install a ball movement offense and win at the same time. If they do, Darko is 100% coach of the year if not decade.

The Toronto Raptors should not be operating with this inside or 3 only philosophy. Their best players need to operate in the midrange. They're already changing it a bit, so let's hope Darko can fully adjust. Siakam needs the ball at the elbows. He shouldn't be asked to creat from the wings.

I think it was an off night for everyone, so they don't even take the mid-range. Schroder took a few, and it didn't work. The Bulls defense was good tonight and ran around quickly.

This is something Darko needs to work with the team against smaller lineup who can close out the 3s quickly. Furthermore, our back up guards are really struggling (Trent, Flynn).

[Tha Cynic]

Watch on YouTube

Some big time plays in the clutch offensively and a couple of boneheaded plays defensively lol. I see this as progress as the mistakes were because of being overanxious. Need more of this aggressive behaviour.

[Tha Cynic]

Schroeder got some nice looks off Barnes plays. Need the ball in the hands of Barnes to create rather than Schroeder. Schroeder is best when he's playing off your best players rather than driving play.

[OakleyDokely]

So far this season, he's averaging 19.5 pts, 9.0 reb, 7.5 ast, 3.5 blks, 1.0 stl, 50 fg, 33.3 3pt, 70 ft, 25.1 usg

Yes, there's been turnovers, yes there's been sloppiness but those numbers are very encouraging especially considering they're coming with defense as well. Dude looks like he will flirt with a triple double every night and he has a shot at a quadruple double because of all the blocks.

He's a 22 year old in a new role with much more responsibility. There will be lots of painful moments.

[Brinbe]

the thing that will really take barnes to the next level will be if he gains an ability to maintain composure when things get a bit tough. some of it is a normal reaction from an eagar 22-year-old, but he definitely has a noticeable tendency to press extra hard when there's signs of danger which becomes counter-productive when it leads to unforced errors/mistakes/turnovers that would've been avoided if he took a few seconds to breath/relax a bit. we def saw that in the 2nd quarter during that terrible stretch of play.

otherwise, the turnover thing is a bit overblown imo. obviously you want to avoid them, not saying it's a good thing, but it's also part and parcel of being a playmaker. misssing the forest for the trees. they didn't lose because of that.



otherwise, he's been mostly solid and I hope they continue giving him those PG reps for stretches. he's continually learning/growing and imposing his will upon games.

[cbosh4mvp]

This game from Scottie reminded me of a 3rd Year Derozan game against the spurs. It was also one of the first games of the season in Demars third year. He was hitting 3's, turn around jumpers, spin moves, making a lot of plays. It just seemed like he was breaking out.

Last night was Scottie's coming out party.

He's here.

[sbsat]

The end of game mistakes are part of the process. Need to be patient as he gets used to his role

[tdotrep2]

I mean, the kid is 22 and is being asked to play make a lot more now. Of course there is going to be some rough patches, but this is how he will learn and grow. You think in a few years he's making some of these same mistakes? No, I'd even argue had we let the kid grow last year we wouldn't see those mistakes last night. We ain't winning a championship this season, let the kid develop.

[YogurtProducer]

the thing that will really take barnes to the next level will be if he gains an ability to maintain composure when things get a bit tough. some of it is a normal reaction from an eagar 22-year-old, but he definitely has a noticeable tendency to press extra hard when there's signs of danger which becomes counter-productive when it leads to unforced errors/mistakes/turnovers that would've been avoided if he took a few seconds to breath/relax a bit. we def saw that in the 2nd quarter during that terrible stretch of play.

otherwise, the turnover thing is a bit overblown imo. obviously you want to avoid them, not saying it's a good thing, but it's also part and parcel of being a playmaker. misssing the forest for the trees. they didn't lose because of that.



otherwise, he's been mostly solid and I hope they continue giving him those PG reps for stretches. he's continually learning/growing and imposing his will upon games.

The good has definitely outweighed the bad, but that being said, is the turnover thing overblown? Trae led to league at 4.1 per game last year. Scottie currently is averaging 5.5 per game. Now, game 2 as a guy getting a lot of usage it probably not matter, but Scottie certainly has to get his TOs down to like 2-3 a game, not 5.

We lost for a variety of reasons, one of which was we turned the ball over 21 times as a team and gave up 15 offensive rebounds. In total, Chicago got off 15 more FGA's and 3 more FTs.

Turnovers are absolutely detrimental to a teams offense as a turnover = a 0% chance at scoring. Even our god awful half court offense has a 30-40% chance if we get a shot off.

[tdotrep2]

side note, evan mobley aint doing **** in year 3

[JShuttlesworth]

19.5 PTS / 9.0 REB / 7.5 AST / 1.0 STL / 3.5 BLK

Couldn't have asked for much more from Barnes in the first two games. He has got to control those turnovers though, some of them could have been easily avoidable too.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

side note, evan mobley aint doing **** in year 3

He's never gonna be much than a great role player.. Can't do much on the offensive end and needs someone to create for him. Scottie can actually get a bucket for himself and create for others.. Scottie is better now and better prospect overall for the modern NBA player

[DG88]

For those who haven't watched the post game media availability yet check it out. Scottie took last night's loss hard. Owned his mistakes and turnovers. Didn't care that he got a triple double they didn't get the win.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Schroeder got some nice looks off Barnes plays. Need the ball in the hands of Barnes to create rather than Schroeder. Schroeder is best when he's playing off your best players rather than driving play.

Which is why I want Trent starting to shoot those 3s

[canada_dry]

I said a while back im really interested in a leap defensively maybe moreso than anything offensively. If yesterday is any indication then I'll be very happy as should everyone.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Hmm, I don't know. A lot of defence comes down to ball IQ (which Scottie has), film study, motor and inherent physical gifts. Yes, there's work involved but not a lot of skill development per se. If Scottie is spending as much time in the gym as he should be, we really need to be seeing the results on offence.

That'll develop too but it may be smaller steps than the leap he can take defensively. And I'd be ok with that.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Tha Cynic]

A other welcome development is that Barnes' jumper looks significantly better. He's also doing very well in the midrange area. First game you could tell the Raptors are operating in that dumb new NBA trend of not taking midrange jumpers. That won't work with this team. Siakam and Barnes can feast on other teams in the midrange. They need to emphasize that more with them. It also becomes important in the playoffs.

The two-pointer from midrange is still better than the nopointer from 3.

[Brinbe]

the thing that will really take barnes to the next level will be if he gains an ability to maintain composure when things get a bit tough. some of it is a normal reaction from an eagar 22-year-old, but he definitely has a noticeable tendency to press extra hard when there's signs of danger which becomes counter-productive when it leads to unforced errors/mistakes/turnovers that would've been avoided if he took a few seconds to breath/relax a bit. we def saw that in the 2nd quarter during that terrible stretch of play.

otherwise, the turnover thing is a bit overblown imo. obviously you want to avoid them, not saying it's a good thing, but it's also part and parcel of being a playmaker. misssing the forest for the trees. they didn't lose because of that.



otherwise, he's been mostly solid and I hope they continue giving him those PG reps for stretches. he's continually learning/growing and imposing his will upon games.

The good has definitely outweighed the bad, but that being said, is the turnover thing overblown? Trae led to league at 4.1 per game last year. Scottie currently is averaging 5.5 per game. Now, game 2 as a guy getting a lot of usage it probably not matter, but Scottie certainly has to get his TOs down to like 2-3 a game, not 5.

We lost for a variety of reasons, one of which was we turned the ball over 21 times as a team and gave up 15 offensive rebounds. In total, Chicago got off 15 more FGA's and 3 more FTs.

Turnovers are absolutely detrimental to a teams offense as a turnover = a 0% chance at scoring. Even our god awful half court offense has a 30-40% chance if we get a shot off.

A whole bunch of nothing. Way to avoid the entire paragraph where I already addressed the whole issue of how/why he's being a bit overeager and turning the ball over a bit more than he should. And of course ignoring where I said that turnovers weren't good! Great job!

And he's 22-years-old, it's game 2 and it's part of the learning process. Let's relax, that's my point.

Just predictable and useless analysis as usual.

Let's take a look at Giannis' stat line from game 1.



What a terrible player.

[LastNameEver]

There are players who turn the ball over dribbling off their feet or constantly being stripped (Tatum and Jaylen a few years back) Scottie was rushing passes, whipping passes or throwing them too high, this will be corrected as the season goes along just like last season.

Receivers being able to seal their man under the basket to receive passes also will play a factor.

[sidsid]

A other welcome development is that Barnes' jumper looks significantly better. He's also doing very well in the midrange area. First game you could tell the Raptors are operating in that dumb new NBA trend of not taking midrange jumpers. That won't work with this team. Siakam and Barnes can feast on other teams in the midrange. They need to emphasize that more with them. It also becomes important in the playoffs.

The two-pointer from midrange is still better than the nopointer from 3.

Siakam finally found a little rhythm there too. Scottie is hitting the middies Siakam has been honing for the last two years. Baseline shots, elbow turnarounds, etc.

OG's looking a little better there too with his pull-ups.

The Darko/Poetl/Dennis problem is holding this back, but if Darko ever clues in that he needs to shuffle the rotation and roles we can really see this take off.