2024 NBA DRAFT THREAD 3

[ciueli]

This draft feels a little like 2013 (the last draft that was billed as one of the worst drafts of all time). It technically had 3 All-Stars but Victor Oladipo was a 1x All-Star with a career derailed by injuries, so really only 2 clear star level players anyone would recognize as being key guys for a franchise (Giannis and Rudy Gobert) and neither were drafted in the lottery.

Looking at the rest of the players in that draft... yeah, it was a really weak draft from top to bottom. There are only three lottery picks I would say were solid starters with a good long career (KCP, CJ McCollum, and Steven Adams), and other than the aforementioned stars it doesn't get better as you go through the first round.

I wonder if that was part of the reason Bryan Colangelo was willing to give up the 2013 pick to acquire Lowry in 2012, rather than our 2012 #8 pick (T-Ross)? Everyone knew 2013 was a weak draft?

I keep fantasizing about going back in time to convince Bryan to give up the 2012 pick for Kyle instead, then get fired, allowing Masai to pick Giannis in 2013. But alas, what's done is done.

There's a lot of what if moments for this franchise looking at the past, if Steven Adams had been off the board at our pick in 2013, Masai had a deal in place to get the pick back to draft Giannis. But who knows, maybe if that happens we don't trade for Kawhi and don't win in 2019, it's best not to dwell on these things because who knows what would have happened, just look at how OKC turned a core of Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka into one NBA Finals appearance and zero titles, anything can happen in this league.

It is instructive though, if this draft is as weak as 2013 we shouldn't bank on our picks making any sort of major difference for this team long term. I think this is why Masai is talking about the rebuild taking years, well that and the fact that I'm sure he'd like to keep his cushy $15M/year President of Basketball Operations job longer than his current contract.

[OAKLEY_2]

I'm not sure if I call a 1 time allstar an allstar.

I guess you make the rules. How Raptor fan fickle is that comment. Fred Van Vleet and Jamal Magloire were obviously fake allstars. Fans having a high standard that comes from a "we're not ever worthy" mindset must be such a state of constant dissatisfaction.. Must be awful to drag that through every Raptor experience.

[ATLTimekeeper]

This thread is hilarious. On the same page a post about how this is the worst draft ever and then you have Masai saying there is likely two all-stars. Masai seems like he has lost touch. Man is a board member and no longer a scout.

Almost every draft produces at least 2-3 allstars regardless of quality.

The very best drafts have those obvious stars at the very top of the draft. This draft doesn't have those obvious stars at the top, so scouting and developing is a lot more important because those stars might be found 13th and 27th this year.

Yeah, Masai is basically stating the obvious and promising a low bar.

[Thaddy]

We are in all three main ranges. The top 10 the mid teens and the late first / early 2nd round. If Masai is a good scout he will identify some of those talents. Stars exist in all drafts regardless of the strength of the draft.

[Psubs]

I'm not sure if I call a 1 time allstar an allstar.

I guess you make the rules. How Raptor fan fickle is that comment. Fred Van Vleet and Jamal Magloire were obviously fake allstars. Fans having a high standard that comes from a "we're not ever worthy" mindset must be such a state of constant dissatisfaction.. Must be awful to drag that through every Raptor experience.

I guess 2 time allstar would be less of a fluke and not as hard to judge each allstar roster for that year and if they were an injury replacement.

[Psubs]

I was wondering how Okoro was doing and whoa, he's improved his 3 pt shooting every year to now 39%

He shoots FT's on par with Castle, so maybe it's also possible for Castle to shoot 3's eventually.

[TGM]

To me we need a scoring guard, defensive 3 and a project C.

A combo of Reed, Edey, Dunn

Or

Holland, McCain, Chome

Don’t understand why people don’t say Holland isn’t the top pick. The guy has handles a great shot and athleticism. He can come in and be scoring wing with good defence right off the bat. This guy can hit 3s in bundles and has the ability to go off for 25-30 ppg.

Reed’s game will translate well as his analytics are off the chart. Worst case you get a JJ Redick with better handles, defence and passing.

[PoundTown]

To me we need a scoring guard, defensive 3 and a project C.

A combo of Reed, Edey, Dunn

Or

Holland, McCain, Chome

Don’t understand why people don’t say Holland isn’t the top pick. The guy has handles a great shot and athleticism. He can come in and be scoring wing with good defence right off the bat. This guy can hit 3s in bundles and has the ability to go off for 25-30 ppg.

Reed’s game will translate well as his analytics are off the chart. Worst case you get a JJ Redick with better handles, defence and passing.

I like holland too, but saying he has a great shot when he shot 20 something percent from 3 and high 60s from the free throw line would be incorrect. If he did in fact have a great shot, he’d probably be the unanimous number 2 pick.

But, I do like him because his mechanics aren’t broken, he’s young and he’s one of the only guys you can foresee being an all star or near all star level player if he can put that shot together. Worth the gamble to me. Norm couldn’t shoot it too well coming into the league and now he’s one of the most consistent shooters in the league. Lowry wasn’t a shooter until like year 4 or so. Holland has a hell of a motor on the floor, so I’d imagine he puts in the work at the gym too.

[CazOnReal]

There's good players in this draft. Allstars?

Perennial or 1-2 timers? Even the 2000 draft had All-Stars...albeit they were all one-timers (Redd, Martin, Magloire - he's a controversial pick) and only one was All-NBA (Redd - 3rd team).

Granted, injuries did rob Redd and Martin of their prime but still, getting an All-Star in a bad draft isn't impossible...it's just highly unlikely.

[Rapsfan07]

To me we need a scoring guard, defensive 3 and a project C.

A combo of Reed, Edey, Dunn

Or

Holland, McCain, Chome

Don’t understand why people don’t say Holland isn’t the top pick. The guy has handles a great shot and athleticism. He can come in and be scoring wing with good defence right off the bat. This guy can hit 3s in bundles and has the ability to go off for 25-30 ppg.

Reed’s game will translate well as his analytics are off the chart. Worst case you get a JJ Redick with better handles, defence and passing.

I like holland too, but saying he has a great shot when he shot 20 something percent from 3 and high 60s from the free throw line would be incorrect. If he did in fact have a great shot, he’d probably be the unanimous number 2 pick.

But, I do like him because his mechanics aren’t broken, he’s young and he’s one of the only guys you can foresee being an all star or near all star level player if he can put that shot together. Worth the gamble to me. Norm couldn’t shoot it too well coming into the league and now he’s one of the most consistent shooters in the league. Lowry wasn’t a shooter until like year 4 or so. Holland has a hell of a motor on the floor, so I’d imagine he puts in the work at the gym too.

Holland is the guy I'd take a chance on around #6 if we manage to keep the pick.

[Raptorfan2012]

For fans of Reed, how do you explain his first round exit performance in the Final Four? The man was invisible with only 3 points. If any Raptor put up those numbers in their first playoff game, they would be massacred here.

[TGM]

To me we need a scoring guard, defensive 3 and a project C.

A combo of Reed, Edey, Dunn

Or

Holland, McCain, Chome

Don’t understand why people don’t say Holland isn’t the top pick. The guy has handles a great shot and athleticism. He can come in and be scoring wing with good defence right off the bat. This guy can hit 3s in bundles and has the ability to go off for 25-30 ppg.

Reed’s game will translate well as his analytics are off the chart. Worst case you get a JJ Redick with better handles, defence and passing.

I like holland too, but saying he has a great shot when he shot 20 something percent from 3 and high 60s from the free throw line would be incorrect. If he did in fact have a great shot, he’d probably be the unanimous number 2 pick.

But, I do like him because his mechanics aren’t broken, he’s young and he’s one of the only guys you can foresee being an all star or near all star level player if he can put that shot together. Worth the gamble to me. Norm couldn’t shoot it too well coming into the league and now he’s one of the most consistent shooters in the league. Lowry wasn’t a shooter until like year 4 or so. Holland has a hell of a motor on the floor, so I’d imagine he puts in the work at the gym too.

Yes my comment about Holland is more shot mechanics related when saying he has a great shot. His shot is quite smooth with high elevation and a quick release. He is like a bigger and more defensive Jayden Brown to me.

[positivetension]

For fans of Reed, how do you explain his first round exit performance in the Final Four? The man was invisible with only 3 points. If any Raptor put up those numbers in their first playoff game, they would be massacred here.

Sample size of one. Lowry dropped a goose egg to start the championship run, bad games happen. With that said, I'm sure it didn't help his stock.

[bballsparkin]

Holland is the guy I'd take a chance on around #6 if we manage to keep the pick.

I'm down with that. Maybe, he becomes an OG level replacement. He has the size and defence. Just needs his shot to come around.

[bballsparkin]

For fans of Reed, how do you explain his first round exit performance in the Final Four? The man was invisible with only 3 points. If any Raptor put up those numbers in their first playoff game, they would be massacred here.

Sample size of one. Lowry dropped a goose egg to start the championship run, bad games happen. With that said, I'm sure it didn't help his stock.

It might be a sample size of one but it was a big game. And he has concerns with his size and being able to replicate his skills at the next level. I wouldn't be opposed to him with a top 6 pick if the FO is game however. He has a nice shot and could be a star. Who knows. Kentucky guard to boot.

[dohboy_24]

Perennial or 1-2 timers? Even the 2000 draft had All-Stars...albeit they were all one-timers (Redd, Martin, Magloire - he's a controversial pick) and only one was All-NBA (Redd - 3rd team).

Granted, injuries did rob Redd and Martin of their prime but still, getting an All-Star in a bad draft isn't impossible...it's just highly unlikely.

Since the Raptors entered the league, these are the players who have received at least one All-Star selection during their career:

1995 (6) - Antonio McDyess, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett, Jerry Stackhouse, Theo Ratliff, Michael Finley

1996 (11) - Allen Iverson, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Stephen Marbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Kobe Bryant, Peja Stokajovic, Steve Nash, Jermaine O'Neal, Zydrunas Ilguaskas, Ben Wallace

1997 (3) - Tim Duncan, Tracy McGrady, Chauncey Billups

1998 (5) - Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce, Rashard Lewis

1999 (9) - Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Wally Szczerbiak, Richard Hamilton, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, Andrei Kirilenko, Manu Ginobli

2000 (3) - Kenyon Martin, Michael Redd, Jamaal Magloire

2001 (8) - Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol, Joe Johnson, Zach Randolph, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Mehmet Okur

2002 (4) - Yao Ming, Amare Stoudemire, Caron Butler, Carlos Boozer

2003 (9) - LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Chris Kaman, David West, Josh Howard, Mo Williams, Kyle Korver

2004 (5) - Dwight Howard, Devin Harris, Luol Deng, Andre Iguodala, Jameer Nelson

2005 (5) - Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Danny Granger, David Lee, Andrew Bynum

2006 (4) - LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, Kyle Lowry, Rajon Rondo

2007 (5) - Kevin Durant, Mike Conley, Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol

2008 (7) - Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert, DeAndre Jordan, Goran Drajic

2009 (6) - Blake Griffin, James Harden, DeMar DeRozen, Stephen Curry, Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague

2010 (4) - John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins, Gordon Hayward, Paul George

2011 (7) - Kyrie Irving, Kemba Walker, Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Nikola Vucevic, Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas

2012 (6) - Anthony Davis, Bradley Beal, Damian Lillard, Andre Drummond, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton

2013 (3) - Giannis, Rudy Gobert, Victor Oladipo

2014 (5) - Joel Embiid, Nikola Jokic, Andrew Wiggins, Julius Randle, Zach LaVine

2015 (4) - Karl Anthony-Towns, D'Angelo Russel, Kristaps Porzingis, Devin Booker

2016 (6) - Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Jaylen Brown, Domatas Sabonis, Pascal Siakam, Dejounte Murray

2017 (6) - Jayson Tatum, De'Aaron Fox, Lauri Markannen, Donovan Mitchell, Bam Adebayo, Jarrett Allen

2018 (5) - Luka Doncic, Jaren Jackson Jr, Trae Young, Shai Gligeous-Alexander, Jalen Brunson

2019 (3) - Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, Darius Garland

2020 (4) - Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball, Tyrese Haliburton, Tyrese Maxey

2021 (1) - Scottie Barnes

2022 (1) - Paolo Banchero

2023 (0) - N/A

Considering the number of All-Star calibre players drafted each year, which ones are the bad or weak drafts and which ones are the good ones?

[ArthurVandelay]

Perennial or 1-2 timers? Even the 2000 draft had All-Stars...albeit they were all one-timers (Redd, Martin, Magloire - he's a controversial pick) and only one was All-NBA (Redd - 3rd team).

Granted, injuries did rob Redd and Martin of their prime but still, getting an All-Star in a bad draft isn't impossible...it's just highly unlikely.

Since the Raptors entered the league, these are the players who have received at least one All-Star selection during their career:

Spoiler:

1995 (6) - Antonio McDyess, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett, Jerry Stackhouse, Theo Ratliff, Michael Finley

1996 (11) - Allen Iverson, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Stephen Marbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Kobe Bryant, Peja Stokajovic, Steve Nash, Jermaine O'Neal, Zydrunas Ilguaskas, Ben Wallace

1997 (3) - Tim Duncan, Tracy McGrady, Chauncey Billups

1998 (5) - Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce, Rashard Lewis

1999 (9) - Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Wally Szczerbiak, Richard Hamilton, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, Andrei Kirilenko, Manu Ginobli

2000 (3) - Kenyon Martin, Michael Redd, Jamaal Magloire

2001 (8) - Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol, Joe Johnson, Zach Randolph, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Mehmet Okur

2002 (4) - Yao Ming, Amare Stoudemire, Caron Butler, Carlos Boozer

2003 (9) - LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Chris Kaman, David West, Josh Howard, Mo Williams, Kyle Korver

2004 (5) - Dwight Howard, Devin Harris, Luol Deng, Andre Iguodala, Jameer Nelson

2005 (5) - Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Danny Granger, David Lee, Andrew Bynum

2006 (4) - LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, Kyle Lowry, Rajon Rondo

2007 (5) - Kevin Durant, Mike Conley, Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol

2008 (7) - Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert, DeAndre Jordan, Goran Drajic

2009 (6) - Blake Griffin, James Harden, DeMar DeRozen, Stephen Curry, Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague

2010 (4) - John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins, Gordon Hayward, Paul George

2011 (7) - Kyrie Irving, Kemba Walker, Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Nikola Vucevic, Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas

2012 (6) - Anthony Davis, Bradley Beal, Damian Lillard, Andre Drummond, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton

2013 (3) - Giannis, Rudy Gobert, Victor Oladipo

2014 (2) - Joel Embiid, Nikola Jokic

2015 (4) - Karl Anthony-Towns, D'Angelo Russel, Kristaps Porzingis, Devin Booker

2016 (6) - Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Jaylen Brown, Domatas Sabonis, Pascal Siakam, Dejounte Murray

2017 (6) - Jayson Tatum, De'Aaron Fox, Lauri Markannen, Donovan Mitchell, Bam Adebayo, Jarrett Allen

2018 (5) - Luka Doncic, Jaren Jackson Jr, Trae Young, Shai Gligeous-Alexander, Jalen Brunson

2019 (3) - Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, Darius Garland

2020 (4) - Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball, Tyrese Haliburton, Tyrese Maxey

2021 (1) - Scottie Barnes

2022 (1) - Paolo Banchero

2023 (0) - N/A

Considering the number of All-Star calibre players drafted each year, which ones are the bad or weak drafts and which ones are the good ones?

2014 (3) Embiid, Jokic, Wiggins

[ATLTimekeeper]

Holland is the guy I'd take a chance on around #6 if we manage to keep the pick.

I'm down with that. Maybe, he becomes an OG level replacement. He has the size and defence. Just needs his shot to come around.

He has #1 option potential, too. The guy can get buckets and create some space with his handle.

[aminiaturebuddha]

For fans of Reed, how do you explain his first round exit performance in the Final Four? The man was invisible with only 3 points. If any Raptor put up those numbers in their first playoff game, they would be massacred here.

Sample size of one. Lowry dropped a goose egg to start the championship run, bad games happen. With that said, I'm sure it didn't help his stock.

It might be a sample size of one but it was a big game. And he has concerns with his size and being able to replicate his skills at the next level. I wouldn't be opposed to him with a top 6 pick if the FO is game however. He has a nice shot and could be a star. Who knows. Kentucky guard to boot.

I'm not totally sold on Sheppard, but I also think we tend to overreact to the "big games" of the NCAA tournament, both positively and negatively.

For example, take a look at Brandon Miller in the tournament last year. In his first game he scored 0 points on 0-5 shooting. If his team had lost because the rest of his team didn't step up, it would have been the same situation. As it was, Alabama advanced and he still didn't cover himself in glory, going 5-17 and 3-19 in his next two games. But now he's coming off a great rookie year in the NBA where he'll almost certainly finish 3rd in ROTY voting, and looks like he's on his way to a great career.

Or, if you want point guards, Quickley is another guy that started the NCAA off terribly in his freshman season, going for 0 points on 0-6 shooting in Kentucky's first game of the 2019 tournament. I'd think we'd say he's also doing alright now.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Just watch Sheppard play. He's not playing a 'star' role. He's a supporting tertiary player. When you draft these players high you have to hope they make a leap in skill development or body development. The argument to draft him high is the top of the draft looks soft and it might be better to take the "Otto Porter" type player.