2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8

[JCP11]

Omg! I forgot about Nique Clifford. One of my favs from last year

He's undoubtedly another option at 9 for me. He leapfrogs Jase.

Nique is fun to watch, if there's a trade down to get more picks he should be in consideration.

[GIZMO]

Watch on YouTube

So the premise of this guys valuation is that Maluach is African and since Masia covets
Africans then we should trade 9, 39 and Shead to move up two spots to select Maluach.

It's quite comical! I have seen better thought out reasoning from many posters on here.

Indeed, pretty bad assumption even taking Maluach at 9, he is in my do not watch list.
I guess there is no real taker for Maluach in the top 10, but these people are ranking him in the top 10, unsure if this is related to his agent trying to hype him.

I am not against KM if the front office decides he's the right pick at 9 then I will trust their judgment. I really wanted Suggs when they picked Scottie, and in hindsight that was a good pick. One thing about our front office is they know how to scout, so you can question their thought process but you can't get too upset. More often then not, they pick the right player

But this guys 44 minute reasoning or banter on what the Raps should/could do was downright stupid.

[gha4life]

Am glad am not in a position to be making these decisions,u need to look at players character work ethic etc to be able to make projections of how a player will develop I was looking at the past draft Express preview done by Mike Schmit and one of his questionable points he made about SGA was his pull up shot making and if u watch the clips he showed it's amazing how he's made his weakness one of the best part of his game , nothing is as is when u look at what guys can do and can't do now , nothing is really promised

[Yallbecrazy]

I have Flagg#1, Harper #2, CMB#3, Edgecombe#4.

I think CMB will be a better rookie than Harper, but Harper has a better path to being a star as his path to being elite is a lot easier. So CMB a better overall player more often than not compared to Harper, but Harper's tail end positives are more frequent than CMB's so he is on the same tier as CMB, but ahead.

VJ also has a good floor and a very high ceiling with his athleticism, but he's clearly behind those 2 as he doesn't have much self creation (rim finishing is too poor currently)

For #5 I don't have a clue right now, too many warts and bust potential for nearly all of them and I'd have to a deeper dive than I want to for having any confidence in my projection.If I were paid for it, would be a different story.

One thing I find incredibly entertaining is Raptors fans aversion to CMB. I'm semi confident he will be the pick and look forward to the fan meltdown.

[bboyskinnylegs]

how does CMB compare to Scottie as a prospect?

[ATLTimekeeper]

I have Flagg#1, Harper #2, CMB#3, Edgecombe#4.

I think CMB will be a better rookie than Harper, but Harper has a better path to being a star as his path to being elite is a lot easier. So CMB a better overall player more often than not compared to Harper, but Harper's tail end positives are more frequent than CMB's so he is on the same tier as CMB, but ahead.

VJ also has a good floor and a very high ceiling with his athleticism, but he's clearly behind those 2 as he doesn't have much self creation (rim finishing is too poor currently)

For #5 I don't have a clue right now, too many warts and bust potential for nearly all of them and I'd have to a deeper dive than I want to for having any confidence in my projection.If I were paid for it, would be a different story.

One thing I find incredibly entertaining is Raptors fans aversion to CMB. I'm semi confident he will be the pick and look forward to the fan meltdown.

I actually think there is zero chance Masai is drafting CMB with his job on the line here. He's already tipped they want a niche fit with Scottie in the draft. I think it's either a guard or 3&D.

[dohboy_24]

I actually think there is zero chance Masai is drafting CMB with his job on the line here. He's already tipped they want a niche fit with Scottie in the draft. I think it's either a guard or 3&D.

Disregarding where we are drafting and the range each player is being mocked at, there are a number of different options available who could fill those roles:

3&D - Carter Bryant, Noa Essengue, Cedric Coward, Will Riley, Drake Powell, Nique Clifford, Hugo Gonzalez, Adou Thiero
Guards - Tre Johnson, Jeremiah Fears, Kaspars Jakucionis, Nolan Traore, Egor Demin, Jase Richardson

[ciueli]

It shocks me how many people will fight tooth and nail to say Maluach is this elite player when he's really really raw and not NBA ready right now

Can he develop into an all-star calibre C? Maybe... But I think he's in the traditional C model like Hasheem Thabeet or James Wiseman with upside of Gobert. These guys just don't work in the new modern NBA. At C you want agile, switchable defensive guys like Lively, Chet or Wemby or elite skill guys like Jokic, Embiid, Sengun

I've never said he's an elite player, I've always been consistent that I think his career is being a solid starting centre. If he was doing all the things you guys want him to do in college at 18 he'd be drafted top 3 and would be completely out of our range, any proven C with the skills you want will always be grabbed with a very high draft pick, like Anthony Davis (1st), Evan Mobley (3rd), Karl-Anthony Towns (1st), Chet Holmgren (2nd) as examples, we never draft high enough to get that type of player because we are unlucky and unwilling to really bottom out. We drafted Jakob Poeltl with the 9th pick in the draft in 2016, that was a pretty good pick. Taking Maluach at 9 in this draft is a similar type move, you can't assume there is a perennial All-Star available at 9 and even if there is you can't assume you will pick whoever it winds up being.

He is not even half of Lively. His block rate and assist rate are half of Lively, not even comparing to those with skills.
It is clearly a big risk with someone who can't jump (bottom 5 in leaping) and show he is not a good rebounder and show blocker at his standing reach and wingspan.

If his block rate is closer to 7% within the average of other C at his size, I would have him higher, but the fact that he is not with both stats and measurement, you got to see why on that.

While we're cherry picking stats, how about, oh, I don't know, points per game? Or rebounds? Maluach was better in both of those categories per minute played. True shooting percentage? Maluach is better and by a lot. Free throw percentage and FTA per minute? Maluach by a lot. And Maluach is even a bit younger than Lively at the same point in time, I would take Maluach over Lively no question, the only area Lively was really better was blocks which you are hyper focused on for some reason, it's often a category that doesn't translate well to the NBA because the defensive systems between college and the NBA are so different.

I'd even argue that shot blocking is becoming less and less important in the NBA these days, this past season there were literally only 3 players who blocked 2 or more shots per game, and only one truly great shot blocker in Victor Wembanyama (3.8 BPG) who is a unicorn only available with the 1st overall pick. To some degree shot blocking is a dying art based on how much teams play switch defence now, the best centre in the NBA has never even blocked 1 shot per game.

[Yallbecrazy]

how does CMB compare to Scottie as a prospect?

CMB is a better rebounder, similar shooter, better perimeter/on ball defender. Both great help defenders, but Barnes is taller and has more vertical pop to protect the rim.

Barnes definitely had more perimeter skills in terms of dribbling and passing off the dribble. CMB is stronger and I think more agile, but not the vertical athlete Barnes is. Barnes played guard in college and has big man offensive skills, but CMB has a better first step and has more fundamental big man skills like finishing. They both are good passers from the post.

Think Barnes was a harder evaluation as he was playing guard with a centre and 3 PFs. CMB played as a big, but not enough attention is paid to how his advanced stats would have been even better if he had some spacing or that team defensive performance inflates dBPM so being on a team with bad defensive players will reduce your BPM relatively which happened with CMB.

I think you can definitely play both together and have CMB screen for Barnes in the pnr. Now you wouldn't have Poeltl on the floor with them, you would have 3 guards or wings with them.

[WuTang_CMB]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=BrooklynNets

[billy_hoyle]

how does CMB compare to Scottie as a prospect?

CMB is a better rebounder, similar shooter, better perimeter/on ball defender. Both great help defenders, but Barnes is taller and has more vertical pop to protect the rim.

Barnes definitely had more perimeter skills in terms of dribbling and passing off the dribble. CMB is stronger and I think more agile, but not the vertical athlete Barnes is. Barnes played guard in college and has big man offensive skills, but CMB has a better first step and has more fundamental big man skills like finishing. They both are good passers from the post.

Think Barnes was a harder evaluation as he was playing guard with a centre and 3 PFs. CMB played as a big, but not enough attention is paid to how his advanced stats would have been even better if he had some spacing or that team defensive performance inflates dBPM so being on a team with bad defensive players will reduce your BPM relatively which happened with CMB.

I think you can definitely play both together and have CMB screen for Barnes in the pnr. Now you wouldn't have Poeltl on the floor with them, you would have 3 guards or wings with them.

Sweet. Let's play with no center. What could go wrong?

[Yallbecrazy]

I have Flagg#1, Harper #2, CMB#3, Edgecombe#4.

I think CMB will be a better rookie than Harper, but Harper has a better path to being a star as his path to being elite is a lot easier. So CMB a better overall player more often than not compared to Harper, but Harper's tail end positives are more frequent than CMB's so he is on the same tier as CMB, but ahead.

VJ also has a good floor and a very high ceiling with his athleticism, but he's clearly behind those 2 as he doesn't have much self creation (rim finishing is too poor currently)

For #5 I don't have a clue right now, too many warts and bust potential for nearly all of them and I'd have to a deeper dive than I want to for having any confidence in my projection.If I were paid for it, would be a different story.

One thing I find incredibly entertaining is Raptors fans aversion to CMB. I'm semi confident he will be the pick and look forward to the fan meltdown.

I actually think there is zero chance Masai is drafting CMB with his job on the line here. He's already tipped they want a niche fit with Scottie in the draft. I think it's either a guard or 3&D.

Haven't seen you post in a while, but wondering what your top 5 or 10 big board is?

Also, who are your thoughts of who they would pick?

[MEDIC]

You guys are still crazy with the Cedric Coward hype lol. He's going to be available in the 20s. If we really want him, we can just trade back into the back half of the first round.

Interesting that Givony now has Noa Essengue at #9 on his big board. I guess NBA front offices must really like him. He looks like a Chris Boucher energy forward to me but he's still so young so I get the intrigue. Demin and Carter Bryant seem to be holding their ground with NBA scouts. The latter seems like a much more likely target than Coward if we want to go with a 3+D guy @ 9. I still like Jak or Demin for us.

Noa feels like a tweener to me. He is a skinny 6'8/6'9 who want to play more as a wing rather than a frontcourt player. He has to really figure out his handle and develop more skill because he is almost only scoring on cuts and a couple catch and shoot jumpers.

Watch on YouTube

He has some good moments here scoring, but some wild misses, bad rotations, and lost balls. He reminds me a bit of Jalen (not Jaden) McDaniels.

There is something about his game that reminds me of Scottie. The way he moves & he has some of the same limitations.

Taller, skinnier Scotty.

[Grew]

how does CMB compare to Scottie as a prospect?

CMB is a better rebounder, similar shooter, better perimeter/on ball defender. Both great help defenders, but Barnes is taller and has more vertical pop to protect the rim.

Barnes definitely had more perimeter skills in terms of dribbling and passing off the dribble. CMB is stronger and I think more agile, but not the vertical athlete Barnes is. Barnes played guard in college and has big man offensive skills, but CMB has a better first step and has more fundamental big man skills like finishing. They both are good passers from the post.

Think Barnes was a harder evaluation as he was playing guard with a centre and 3 PFs. CMB played as a big, but not enough attention is paid to how his advanced stats would have been even better if he had some spacing or that team defensive performance inflates dBPM so being on a team with bad defensive players will reduce your BPM relatively which happened with CMB.

I think you can definitely play both together and have CMB screen for Barnes in the pnr. Now you wouldn't have Poeltl on the floor with them, you would have 3 guards or wings with them.

Sweet. Let's play with no center. What could go wrong?

Hold on now... I don't think we have ever tried that before. Give it a chance.

[Yallbecrazy]

how does CMB compare to Scottie as a prospect?

CMB is a better rebounder, similar shooter, better perimeter/on ball defender. Both great help defenders, but Barnes is taller and has more vertical pop to protect the rim.

Barnes definitely had more perimeter skills in terms of dribbling and passing off the dribble. CMB is stronger and I think more agile, but not the vertical athlete Barnes is. Barnes played guard in college and has big man offensive skills, but CMB has a better first step and has more fundamental big man skills like finishing. They both are good passers from the post.

Think Barnes was a harder evaluation as he was playing guard with a centre and 3 PFs. CMB played as a big, but not enough attention is paid to how his advanced stats would have been even better if he had some spacing or that team defensive performance inflates dBPM so being on a team with bad defensive players will reduce your BPM relatively which happened with CMB.

I think you can definitely play both together and have CMB screen for Barnes in the pnr. Now you wouldn't have Poeltl on the floor with them, you would have 3 guards or wings with them.

Sweet. Let's play with no center. What could go wrong?

Scottie and CMB can play together as both can switch and both can rebound. CMB is an elite rebounder and can defend much larger guys due to his elite strength. CMB is being labeled as a tweener when he's really versatile as he can play center, can also play PF and even SF with his perimeter defending.
There's a video of Fears who I don't love as a prospect, but is elite at getting into the paint with his dribble and quickness (best in college in basketball imo). He tries to break CMB down off the dribble, gets cut off and backs up and tries again before passing the ball away while CMB then rotates and gets the block at the rim. He literally can guard 1-5 with his outlier quickness, length and has the bbiq to rotate and protect the rim.

Instead of thinking of him as an undersized C, one should think of him as an oversized SF defensively who is capable of playing C well too.

Anthony Mason was a really valuable unique player and CMB has similar strengths, but he has more upside. He is an outlier at finishing, plus he has + nba IQ, along with + Nba athleticism.
His fundamentals are really good and shooting is the most unpredictable stat. There are good college shooters who don't translate and there are poor shooters who figure it out which is very unlike other skills. If he gets a shot he is not only an allstar, he's a perennial MVP candidate.
Every time I see someone compare him to a bust I check the stats and he's massively superior to them in multiple statistics while having a worse supporting cast.

[billy_hoyle]

CMB is a better rebounder, similar shooter, better perimeter/on ball defender. Both great help defenders, but Barnes is taller and has more vertical pop to protect the rim.

Barnes definitely had more perimeter skills in terms of dribbling and passing off the dribble. CMB is stronger and I think more agile, but not the vertical athlete Barnes is. Barnes played guard in college and has big man offensive skills, but CMB has a better first step and has more fundamental big man skills like finishing. They both are good passers from the post.

Think Barnes was a harder evaluation as he was playing guard with a centre and 3 PFs. CMB played as a big, but not enough attention is paid to how his advanced stats would have been even better if he had some spacing or that team defensive performance inflates dBPM so being on a team with bad defensive players will reduce your BPM relatively which happened with CMB.

I think you can definitely play both together and have CMB screen for Barnes in the pnr. Now you wouldn't have Poeltl on the floor with them, you would have 3 guards or wings with them.

Sweet. Let's play with no center. What could go wrong?

Scottie and CMB can play together as both can switch and both can rebound. CMB is an elite rebounder and can defend much larger guys due to his elite strength. CMB is being labeled as a tweener when he's really versatile as he can play center, can also play PF and even SF with his perimeter defending.
There's a video of Fears who I don't love as a prospect, but is elite at getting into the paint with his dribble and quickness (best in college in basketball imo). He tries to break CMB down off the dribble, gets cut off and backs up and tries again before passing the ball away while CMB then rotates and gets the block at the rim. He literally can guard 1-5 with his outlier quickness, length and has the bbiq to rotate and protect the rim.

Instead of thinking of him as an undersized C, one should think of him as an oversized SF defensively.

Anthony Mason was a really valuable unique player and CMB has similar strengths, but he has more upside. He is an outlier at finishing, plus he has + nba IQ, along with + Nba athleticism.
His fundamentals are really good and shooting is the most unpredictable stat. There are good college shooters who don't translate and there are poor shooters who figure it out which is very unlike other skills. If he gets a shot he is not only an allstar, he's a perennial MVP candidate.
Every time I see someone compare him to a bust I check the stats and he's massively superior to them in multiple statistics while having a worse supporting cast.

Anthony Mason played next to Patrick Ewing.

He didn't share the front court with Charles Oakley or Larry Johnson.

Patrick Ewing... a top 10 C all time.

[NotMyKawhi]

You obviously trade back. 4 teams w multiple 1sts behind us.

Bk has so many picks they gotta trade up
Okc and magic have so much depth, trading up for 1 is a better move.

Even the hawks have depth. You trade back

[Rapsfan07]

People really think it makes sense to play Barnes and CMB together?

Are we in 2004?

[Mark_83]

Guys, I've been thinking it over and I think I've finally settled on Cooper Flagg for our pick at 9. I know it will be a bit polarizing, but I just have a good feeling about him.

[Mark_83]

People really think it makes sense to play Barnes and CMB together?

Are we in 2004?

To be fair, back in 2011 people were saying we shouldn't draft Kawhi because Derozan couldn't shoot and we already had James Johnson. He's not my top pick either but it wouldn't be a reach talent-wise.