Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[phailing101]

I actually really like that Brad Miller comparison for Kanter, the more I look at it

GImme a break. Kanter is much more athletic than Brad Miller.

Otherwise, I can see the comparison because of the shooting ability but Kanter will be more of a shot blocker.

[Tofubeque]

The more I watch these clips, the more I see the Kevin Love comparison... which is good in one sense but bad in another. You're not exactly seeing any defensive highlights from him. What he would need to excel at is below the rim, positional defense, and it's hard to scout for that when he hasn't seen elite competition.

Still, his offense looks impressive, and he doesn't look as slow off his feet as a lot people are making him out to be. It'll be interesting to see some combine numbers in that regard. An offense-minded PF/C isn't what I wanted out of this draft, but with the way things are going... do you pass up Kanter's skill at #3 to reach for Biyombo?

[MEDIC]

It doesn't seem like Kanter is that slow/unathletic

Look at his move at :38 in particular. He makes a couple like that in the video. I don't think Kanter is any slower than Scola or Love. There are slow Cs in this league. As long as you can move around as much as Kanter does in this vid while holding your position, it's alright

I agree Mufasa. Some people are trying to paint him as a complete stiff, but he is actually quite mobile. He definitely not Brad Miller/ Eric Montross level.

He doesn't have a great vert, but he can run the floor & has some very good footwork. I'd say his mobility is close to that of a Kaman.

You add a very smooth baseline jumpshot to that & you've got a pretty skilled 6'10" 260+lb player,

[fredericklove]

BTW fredricklove, thanks for the vids...but I only had to open the first one to remember/determine that Kanter is slow as hell...I don't see how he can play at NBA speed with those deliberate moves and bad mobility.

He probably have worked on his conditioning since then, the last time he played was the hoops summit, he sure didn't look slow in that game highlight.

[fredericklove]

It doesn't seem like Kanter is that slow/unathletic

Look at his move at :38 in particular. He makes a couple like that in the video. I don't think Kanter is any slower than Scola or Love. There are slow Cs in this league. As long as you can move around as much as Kanter does in this vid while holding your position, it's alright

I agree Mufasa. Some people are trying to paint him as a complete stiff, but he is actually quite mobile. He definitely not Brad Miller/ Eric Montross level.

He doesn't have a great vert, but he can run the floor & has some very good footwork. I'd say his mobility is close to that of a Kaman.

You add a very smooth baseline jumpshot to that & you've got a pretty skilled 6'10" 260+lb player,

Just in case if the raptors decided to draft him, there will be more anti-fans than Kanter supporters on this board, it's reasonable considering the fact that bargnani gave us years and years of nightmare on the defensive end so the last thing we want is a big man who can't play d. But I'd be happy if we get him anyways, if those ain't happy with it...well, I'd probably show them this -- >

[Hassassin]

When I start to see NBA scouts/execs making comments like that (they probably won't unless they're trying to misdirect, unless they aren't drafting anywhere near us), then I might perk up somewhat.

“Where he ultimately lands depends on what underclassmen come out,” one NBA scout told Yahoo! Sports. “But he’s definitely top seven at worst. He’s just so skilled offensively. He has a decent midrange game and can definitely finish in the paint. He has good footwork, runs the floor well and is very agile for his size.

“From what the international scouts say, he’s the top big man coming out. He’s like a taller Al Horford(notes). He can pick and pop, and score inside. He can pretty much fit into any system for any team that needs a center doesn’t matter if they’re a half-court or running team.”

Yahoo Sports

You are probably going to see more of these as we get closer to the draft. I wouldn't close the books on him.

[God Squad]

When I start to see NBA scouts/execs making comments like that (they probably won't unless they're trying to misdirect, unless they aren't drafting anywhere near us), then I might perk up somewhat.

“Where he ultimately lands depends on what underclassmen come out,” one NBA scout told Yahoo! Sports. “But he’s definitely top seven at worst. He’s just so skilled offensively. He has a decent midrange game and can definitely finish in the paint. He has good footwork, runs the floor well and is very agile for his size.

“From what the international scouts say, he’s the top big man coming out. He’s like a taller Al Horford(notes). He can pick and pop, and score inside. He can pretty much fit into any system for any team that needs a center doesn’t matter if they’re a half-court or running team.”

Yahoo Sports

Perfect. Pretty much what I want to hear. Glad he can adapt to any play style.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I actually really like that Brad Miller comparison for Kanter, the more I look at it

Brad Miller has always made a living as a pick/pop big, an excellent high-post passer/shooter but a poor defender other than hard fouls and 7 feet-ish as the result of cement feet. Miller doesn't post up with any regularity and never did. I like(d) the guy but Kanter sounds/looks nothing like him.

That Yahoo article is encouraging but those girls had better be 6'3.

[God Squad]

I actually really like that Brad Miller comparison for Kanter, the more I look at it

Brad Miller has always made a living as a pick/pop big, an excellent high-post passer/shooter but a poor defender other than hard fouls and 7 feet-ish as the result of cement feet. Miller doesn't post up with any regularity and never did. I like(d) the guy but Kanter sounds/looks nothing like him.

That Yahoo article is encouraging but those girls had better be 6'3.

Their wearing heels. Also Enes is bending over

[yayotube]

I love Kanter's game and if we're 3rd and Irving + Williams are gone, he should be our pick. He's a stud and will be a very good center. He has size, intangibles, and a complete post game + 15-17 foot jumper.

I don't know why people on here are so in love with 7 footers who can jump out of the gym but are dumb as rocks like McGee, or DeAndre Jordan who airballs his free throws. Athletic ability is an asset but it does not determine whether you're a good defender or not. DeMar DeRozan is an athletic guy but so far he isn't a good defender (and I'm a DeMar fan). Obviously if Kanter has legit red flags when it comes to his knees then we go some other direction, but the fact he "plays below the rim", come on son. The guy gets it done, whether its a dunk or a God damn lay up, it's two points. He doesn't avoid contact, he plays physical.

It's not even as if he's a complete stiff on D either. According to DraftExpress he's a more than capable defender that uses his size effectively. Whether you want to downplay that report by DX by pointing out "it was only Hoops Summit practice", the point is he executed defensively in practice. Just ask Allen Iverson how big practice is. Point is if he brings that defensive mindset in practice, i'm pretty sure he'd apply it in the game. He may not be a jump out of the gym center, but he's a cerebral one with a high IQ.

And the other thing we know about him is his rebounding, which is above average. If there's one thing people always say translates to the NBA, it's rebounding.

Once again I'm just gonna say that we are in a great position to evaluate all the centers in this class and choose the best one. If the workouts determine someone else is better than Kanter, we won't draft him.

[TDotRep]

He's a less hyper version of D.Cousins. Uses the big body, very skilled, can shoot the mid-range and occasionally shows the ability to take defender off the bounce. Good rebounders, TBD defensively, you can't find a better player comparison.

[JYD]

BTW fredricklove, thanks for the vids...but I only had to open the first one to remember/determine that Kanter is slow as hell...I don't see how he can play at NBA speed with those deliberate moves and bad mobility.

He probably have worked on his conditioning since then, the last time he played was the hoops summit, he sure didn't look slow in that game highlight.

I guess we just disagree then. He doesn't look quick at all to me. He looks like he tends to collect himself and telegraph his move. I can see him getting blocked a lot in the NBA.

There's a huge jump to be made between skinny kids who are maybe 6'8, or 6'9 whom he can shoot over/push around in the post, and NBA C's who go 6'11 and up who can challenge the kind of shots he takes (slow moves below the rim) and hold position in the post against him.

Just to add, it's getting really tiresome when people don't read carefully. I've never compared him directly to Hoffa, nor Brad Miller, nor what's his face on Orlando...I've merely stated he shares a lot of limitations with players like them, who more often than not turn out to be nothing more than role players at best and busts at worst.

I certainly don't have an agenda or anything, I'm not pushing a particular player over Kanter. I just look at his game and I'm immediately not impressed, and reminded of other players like him who turned out to be ineffective.

Other guys have question marks too, but can anyone honestly say they think Kanter will be a good defensive C? Because that's what I want in a C, above all else.

[JYD]

When I start to see NBA scouts/execs making comments like that (they probably won't unless they're trying to misdirect, unless they aren't drafting anywhere near us), then I might perk up somewhat.

“Where he ultimately lands depends on what underclassmen come out,” one NBA scout told Yahoo! Sports. “But he’s definitely top seven at worst. He’s just so skilled offensively. He has a decent midrange game and can definitely finish in the paint. He has good footwork, runs the floor well and is very agile for his size.

“From what the international scouts say, he’s the top big man coming out. He’s like a taller Al Horford(notes). He can pick and pop, and score inside. He can pretty much fit into any system for any team that needs a center doesn’t matter if they’re a half-court or running team.”

Yahoo Sports

You are probably going to see more of these as we get closer to the draft. I wouldn't close the books on him.

You're right in that in this draft with everyone pulling out, Kanter he may go closer to the 5 side of 10 than the 14 side of 10. But I will close the books on him, because I'm very confident his game will not translate nearly well enough to be close to worthy of a top 5 pick. You can sig that up if you want and if we take him, I'll pray I'm wrong.

[S.W.A.N]

I on the bismack bus right now but really I think that all 3 bigs are in the mix.

Workouts and draft measurements are going to be a big part of things this year due to the lack of scouting data available for these 3 compared to the norm.

I am excited to know how kanter does. He scares me in that I really want to see a big man that defends the middle, but if he really is as talented as some say then you have an amazing building block.

[bboyskinnylegs]

I've been downloading and watching Bismack's games at Fuenlabrada. Here's his game against Real Madrid, edited down to just when he was on the floor:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhjnHRcsulA[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb6XaeKsXzE[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWOTAW2SSjk[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xQIi_nQQ18[/youtube]

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

There's no doubt Bismack Biyombo is raw - didn't box out, and tried to outjump people for rebounds in those videos. Things that can be taught, and will undoubtedly have to be corrected.

[RapsFanInOhio]

Kanter reminds me so much of BJ Mullens and Kosta Koufos. Both Mullens and Koufos were projected high picks whose stocks lowered after they were more exposed in college; they should have stayed in school ala Bogut and developed their games. Kanter never got exposed, and this is a weak draft, thus leading to the discussion of him as a high pick. I think our fanbase is so desperate for a Center who plays inside that we're overrating him severely. He'll get picked top-10, but if this were a normal draft he would be late lottery.

Give me Biyombo over Kanter. Kid already has an NBA body and he's a solid defender. Similar to D12 and other athletic centers (Ibaka, Perkins, Nene), his offensive game will come later.

1. Kyrie
2. D-Will
..
..
..
..
..
..
3. Biyombo
4. Jonas
5. Jones
6. Kanter
7. Knight
8. Kemba

[JYD]

I pretty much agree with all you said there Rapsfan, it feels like Kanter is really coasting on past performance here. And I'll wager we don't see him work out against either of the 2 C's discussed as top picks.

I just find it strange that so many like him so much..I mean if we want a C there are 2 others there in Jonas V and Biyombo..both long guys who don't lack lift and can move pretty well, putting up good numbers in a good league with physical Cs.

[SkywalkerAC]

how can you agree to such drivel comparing Kanter to BJ Mullens of all players?

let's compare Kanter, who has dominated every level and will have been working his already professional ass off getting ready for the draft vs BJ effing Mullens..

it was well known the type of deficiencies that poor BJ was afflicted with. great things never expected of BJ.

Kanter is a different kind of pedigree. I don't happen to think he's the right fit for the Raptors as I currently have a fanboner for Biyombo but there's no question in my mind that Enes'll be a good player in the NBA. there's a great success rate for power 4s that can throw their weight around, rebound, and score the ball.

however, i think we can all agree - power forwards don't mean ****. you need elite size or you're always going to be up against it. you need a freak in the middle.

that's why i hope against hope that Biyombo can be that freak. he's no sure thing but i like the mechanics of how he operates. he looks like he could be really big and really mobile one day. muscle definition and everything. one can hope.

back to my point, Mullens v Kanter is an insult to everything one should stand for and Wham! I am appalled.

[ATLTimekeeper]

What? Now he's getting Brad Miller comparisons, who was mainly a face-up player? They're not close.

There's too many below the rim beasts for people to make this the main flag. Period. ZBo, Boozer, Scola, Kevin Love, Elton Brand, David West, Al Jefferson