2023 Draft Discussion Part 4

[Clutch0z24]

SA, PHX, MIL, DEN, GS etc all seemed to find stars without tanking.

SA tanked for Tim Duncan without Tim Duncan they do not win as many titles...Hes one of the greatest Big men to ever play....

Phx got CP3 who is a star who wanted to be there ,KD also demanded a trade there (Not gonna happen for us)

GSW the year they got Curry they been bad for years and basically have been tanking by putting together bad teams and got lucky at 7...(7TH is a good draft pick)

Denver and Mil out of the teams you listed are the 2 that i can see your point but Murray was also a high draft pick....Joker and Giannis are legit franchise players found outside of the lottery....But like i said thats alot rare to find than finding in the top 1-7 Picks....But yes Trades could be good for the Raptors but we are not getting a superstar/franchise player like Kawhi again in a trade....Maybe a DeJounte Murray type....But not a legit top 5 player in a trade ....Won't happen for the Raptors ever again

Jokic at #41
Draymond at #35
Butler at #30
Giannis at #15
Kawhi at #15
Booker at #13
Mitchell at #13
Haliburton #12
Klay at #11
George at #10
Curry at #7
etc

It's very possible to add elite talent later in the draft. Very rarely is all the top talent concentrated at the very top. The smart organizations can find it.

Draft is a gamble in itself yes you can find players in the later picks that turn out good....But you give yourself the best chance by getting a higher pick cause most the time talent like the LBJ's, Wades, Duncans, MJS, Magics, Birds, Hakeems, Shaqs, Carters, Iversons, Doncic....These type of players are always near the top of the drafts....Just gives yourself a chance to get a franchise player if your pick is higher...Just makes logical sense lol...

Why would you wanna make it more harder on yourself to try and find a franchise player in the late lottery? ....

These players don't just grow on trees i understand and you might even make a few mistakes before you get it right but imo we have to keep trying till we find that player for us or else we will just be stuck in no mans land for years and end up in a position where we have to play the draft anyways cause we will suck 2 bad...

[OakleyDokely]

You're using 2 extreme examples. Booker was a 6th man in college and 3 other players from his own college team were selected ahead of him in the draft.

If your strategy is to draft a 2 time MVP in the second round, all power to you but it's doesn't seem exactly repeatable.

What about the tons of other teams that draft no bodies with picks in the teens? Even a well run team like the Celtics failed to draft meaningful rotation players with their later picks.

Real world examples suggest that top tier stars are typically acquired via trade / free agency like KD and Lebron. These guys got tired of waiting around for their teams to build a winner and just left. Then you have guys like Giannis, Kawhi, Curry who were drafted a little later in the draft into organizations that weren't tire fires.

This idea that you get top picks and then win titles literally never happens.

Its not about getting top picks and winning titles man....Its about getting that one player to build around....Guys like Wemby/Scoot for example....Or if you find a draft class that has a few guys that may look like franchise players....Or maybe you get lucky where a guy falls to you at 7 like GSW did....

Its not about just getting high picks year after year its about trying to find high level talent to build around....Guys like Barnes...With lower picks its much harder to find a franchise player....You need higher picks just to increase the odds of getting that player...

Raptors atm just need a player to build around...As good as Barnes is i do not think hes a franchise player though...So we have to keep searching....I don't think a trade/free agent will ever do this so that is why anyone who wants to play the draft for a bit wants to do that because it just makes the most logical sense...Since we are not a desired destination

There are multiple ways to acquire the type of player you're describing.

[OakleyDokely]

SA tanked for Tim Duncan without Tim Duncan they do not win as many titles...Hes one of the greatest Big men to ever play....

Phx got CP3 who is a star who wanted to be there ,KD also demanded a trade there (Not gonna happen for us)

GSW the year they got Curry they been bad for years and basically have been tanking by putting together bad teams and got lucky at 7...(7TH is a good draft pick)

Denver and Mil out of the teams you listed are the 2 that i can see your point but Murray was also a high draft pick....Joker and Giannis are legit franchise players found outside of the lottery....But like i said thats alot rare to find than finding in the top 1-7 Picks....But yes Trades could be good for the Raptors but we are not getting a superstar/franchise player like Kawhi again in a trade....Maybe a DeJounte Murray type....But not a legit top 5 player in a trade ....Won't happen for the Raptors ever again

Jokic at #41
Draymond at #35
Butler at #30
Giannis at #15
Kawhi at #15
Booker at #13
Mitchell at #13
Haliburton #12
Klay at #11
George at #10
Curry at #7
etc

It's very possible to add elite talent later in the draft. Very rarely is all the top talent concentrated at the very top. The smart organizations can find it.

Draft is a gamble in itself yes you can find players in the later picks that turn out good....But you give yourself the best chance by getting a higher pick cause most the time talent like the LBJ's, Wades, Duncans, MJS, Magics, Birds, Hakeems, Shaqs, Carters, Iversons, Doncic....These type of players are always near the top of the drafts....Just gives yourself a chance to get a franchise player if your pick is higher...Just makes logical sense lol...

Why would you wanna make it more harder on yourself to try and find a franchise player in the late lottery? ....

These players don't just grow on trees i understand and you might even make a few mistakes before you get it right but imo we have to keep trying till we find that player for us or else we will just be stuck in no mans land for years and end up in a position where we have to play the draft anyways cause we will suck 2 bad...

I just don't agree that the only way to acquire top end talent is to be bad forever and hope for extreme luck.

[Clutch0z24]

Real world examples suggest that top tier stars are typically acquired via trade / free agency like KD and Lebron. These guys got tired of waiting around for their teams to build a winner and just left. Then you have guys like Giannis, Kawhi, Curry who were drafted a little later in the draft into organizations that weren't tire fires.

This idea that you get top picks and then win titles literally never happens.

Its not about getting top picks and winning titles man....Its about getting that one player to build around....Guys like Wemby/Scoot for example....Or if you find a draft class that has a few guys that may look like franchise players....Or maybe you get lucky where a guy falls to you at 7 like GSW did....

Its not about just getting high picks year after year its about trying to find high level talent to build around....Guys like Barnes...With lower picks its much harder to find a franchise player....You need higher picks just to increase the odds of getting that player...

Raptors atm just need a player to build around...As good as Barnes is i do not think hes a franchise player though...So we have to keep searching....I don't think a trade/free agent will ever do this so that is why anyone who wants to play the draft for a bit wants to do that because it just makes the most logical sense...Since we are not a desired destination

There are multiple ways to acquire the type of player you're describing.

For teams like LA , Miami Or teams with already contending teams (Which they either got a franchise player through the draft in Embiid/Tatum Or already got a bunch of star players in free agency) Yes there are other ways of doing it...But like i said lots of times here no superstars are demanding trades to Toronto (Which is what it takes now to aquire these players)....Its a players league they will decide where they go and most the times their demands are met....Free agency is not an option for us....

Sure we can wait years on this magical trade we will make to get a franchise player but my point is i think the odds of us finding one with a high draft pick is much more logical than a trade and thats why that route seems best.

[OakleyDokely]

Its not about getting top picks and winning titles man....Its about getting that one player to build around....Guys like Wemby/Scoot for example....Or if you find a draft class that has a few guys that may look like franchise players....Or maybe you get lucky where a guy falls to you at 7 like GSW did....

Its not about just getting high picks year after year its about trying to find high level talent to build around....Guys like Barnes...With lower picks its much harder to find a franchise player....You need higher picks just to increase the odds of getting that player...

Raptors atm just need a player to build around...As good as Barnes is i do not think hes a franchise player though...So we have to keep searching....I don't think a trade/free agent will ever do this so that is why anyone who wants to play the draft for a bit wants to do that because it just makes the most logical sense...Since we are not a desired destination

There are multiple ways to acquire the type of player you're describing.

For teams like LA , Miami Or teams with already contending teams (Which they either got a franchise player through the draft in Embiid/Tatum Or already got a bunch of star players in free agency) Yes there are other ways of doing it...But like i said lots of times here no superstars are demanding trades to Toronto (Which is what it takes now to aquire these players)....Its a players league they will decide where they go and most the times their demands are met....Free agency is not an option for us....

Sure we can wait years on this magical trade we will make to get a franchise player but my point is i think the odds of us finding one with a high draft pick is much more logical than a trade and thats why that route seems best.

and teams like PHX, TOR, PHI, CLE, BRK etc who all recently traded for stars.

[Jadoogar]

Jokic at #41
Draymond at #35
Butler at #30
Giannis at #15
Kawhi at #15
Booker at #13
Mitchell at #13
Haliburton #12
Klay at #11
George at #10
Curry at #7
etc

It's very possible to add elite talent later in the draft. Very rarely is all the top talent concentrated at the very top. The smart organizations can find it.

Draft is a gamble in itself yes you can find players in the later picks that turn out good....But you give yourself the best chance by getting a higher pick cause most the time talent like the LBJ's, Wades, Duncans, MJS, Magics, Birds, Hakeems, Shaqs, Carters, Iversons, Doncic....These type of players are always near the top of the drafts....Just gives yourself a chance to get a franchise player if your pick is higher...Just makes logical sense lol...

Why would you wanna make it more harder on yourself to try and find a franchise player in the late lottery? ....

These players don't just grow on trees i understand and you might even make a few mistakes before you get it right but imo we have to keep trying till we find that player for us or else we will just be stuck in no mans land for years and end up in a position where we have to play the draft anyways cause we will suck 2 bad...

I just don't agree that the only way to acquire top end talent is to be bad forever and hope for extreme luck.

But the other ways you're describing are also pretty lucky. Drafting Jokic at 41 was extremely lucky. Kawhi getting injured and spurs trading him for pennies on the dollar was very lucky.
Drafting a superstar in the top 3 requires luck of course but it's more likely than drafting the best center in the league at 41.

[OakleyDokely]

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[OakleyDokely]

Draft is a gamble in itself yes you can find players in the later picks that turn out good....But you give yourself the best chance by getting a higher pick cause most the time talent like the LBJ's, Wades, Duncans, MJS, Magics, Birds, Hakeems, Shaqs, Carters, Iversons, Doncic....These type of players are always near the top of the drafts....Just gives yourself a chance to get a franchise player if your pick is higher...Just makes logical sense lol...

Why would you wanna make it more harder on yourself to try and find a franchise player in the late lottery? ....

These players don't just grow on trees i understand and you might even make a few mistakes before you get it right but imo we have to keep trying till we find that player for us or else we will just be stuck in no mans land for years and end up in a position where we have to play the draft anyways cause we will suck 2 bad...

I just don't agree that the only way to acquire top end talent is to be bad forever and hope for extreme luck.

But the other ways you're describing are also pretty lucky. Drafting Jokic at 41 was extremely lucky. Kawhi getting injured and spurs trading him for pennies on the dollar was very lucky.
Drafting a superstar in the top 3 requires luck of course but it's more likely than drafting the best center in the league at 41.

Then there are two extremely lucky teams in the western conference finals and some pretty unlucky teams waiting for lottery balls to bounce.

[Clutch0z24]

Jokic at #41
Draymond at #35
Butler at #30
Giannis at #15
Kawhi at #15
Booker at #13
Mitchell at #13
Haliburton #12
Klay at #11
George at #10
Curry at #7
etc

It's very possible to add elite talent later in the draft. Very rarely is all the top talent concentrated at the very top. The smart organizations can find it.

Draft is a gamble in itself yes you can find players in the later picks that turn out good....But you give yourself the best chance by getting a higher pick cause most the time talent like the LBJ's, Wades, Duncans, MJS, Magics, Birds, Hakeems, Shaqs, Carters, Iversons, Doncic....These type of players are always near the top of the drafts....Just gives yourself a chance to get a franchise player if your pick is higher...Just makes logical sense lol...

Why would you wanna make it more harder on yourself to try and find a franchise player in the late lottery? ....

These players don't just grow on trees i understand and you might even make a few mistakes before you get it right but imo we have to keep trying till we find that player for us or else we will just be stuck in no mans land for years and end up in a position where we have to play the draft anyways cause we will suck 2 bad...

I just don't agree that the only way to acquire top end talent is to be bad forever and hope for extreme luck.

No one said be bad forever.....You can be bad for a few years and end up getting a franchise player to build around and change your fortunes that way....Its about finding a franchise player at this point....And like i said i don't believe we will ever get one in a trade or free agency...If you think we will get one that way more power to you....Just can't see it though...

T-Mac-Draft
Carter-Draft
Bosh-Draft
Lowry-Trade
DeRozan-Draft
JV-Draft
Stoudamire-Draft
Barnes-Draft
Mo Pete-Draft
Siakam-Draft
Fvv-Drat
OG-Draft
Powell-Draft
Kawhi-Trade

Out of our "Best" Raptors or ones that stick out in my mind we got in the draft....Yeah we got lucky on a few of them but the better prospects we had are top end draft picks....

We have 2 through trade in our history....Which should tell you smething....Our best strength is playing the draft...Since that is OUR best way we should go for playing it till you find the player you need....And you find that player with higher picks...

[Psubs]

Its not about getting top picks and winning titles man....Its about getting that one player to build around....Guys like Wemby/Scoot for example....Or if you find a draft class that has a few guys that may look like franchise players....Or maybe you get lucky where a guy falls to you at 7 like GSW did....

Its not about just getting high picks year after year its about trying to find high level talent to build around....Guys like Barnes...With lower picks its much harder to find a franchise player....You need higher picks just to increase the odds of getting that player...

Raptors atm just need a player to build around...As good as Barnes is i do not think hes a franchise player though...So we have to keep searching....I don't think a trade/free agent will ever do this so that is why anyone who wants to play the draft for a bit wants to do that because it just makes the most logical sense...Since we are not a desired destination

Is Scoot even going to be better than John Wall?

I hope most that saw Embiid play saw Hakeem potential but due to injury scare dropped. The draft is tough, If Michael Porter Jr didn't have back problems he'd be #1 with Luka (lol Phoenix and Sacramento). MPJ is like Bachero but shooting 50/40/80. Still he's only like a 2nd option at best on a championship team. With time, Luka may be viewed as a #2 option on a championship team because of his bad defense? May end up just being Carmelo Anthony 2.0.

Outside of Wemby I don't think any player left could possibly be better than a #2 option. Even Wemby may top out at Porzingis and might have injury concerns due to size.

[OakleyDokely]

Draft is a gamble in itself yes you can find players in the later picks that turn out good....But you give yourself the best chance by getting a higher pick cause most the time talent like the LBJ's, Wades, Duncans, MJS, Magics, Birds, Hakeems, Shaqs, Carters, Iversons, Doncic....These type of players are always near the top of the drafts....Just gives yourself a chance to get a franchise player if your pick is higher...Just makes logical sense lol...

Why would you wanna make it more harder on yourself to try and find a franchise player in the late lottery? ....

These players don't just grow on trees i understand and you might even make a few mistakes before you get it right but imo we have to keep trying till we find that player for us or else we will just be stuck in no mans land for years and end up in a position where we have to play the draft anyways cause we will suck 2 bad...

I just don't agree that the only way to acquire top end talent is to be bad forever and hope for extreme luck.

No one said be bad forever.....You can be bad for a few years and end up getting a franchise player to build around and change your fortunes that way....Its about finding a franchise player at this point....And like i said i don't believe we will ever get one in a trade or free agency...If you think we will get one that way more power to you....Just can't see it though...

T-Mac-Draft
Carter-Draft
Bosh-Draft
Lowry-Trade
DeRozan-Draft
JV-Draft
Stoudamire-Draft
Barnes-Draft
Mo Pete-Draft
Siakam-Draft
Fvv-Drat
OG-Draft
Powell-Draft
Kawhi-Trade

Out of our "Best" Raptors or ones that stick out in my mind we got in the draft....Yeah we got lucky on a few of them but the better prospects we had are top end draft picks....

We have 2 through trade in our history....Which should tell you smething....Our best strength is playing the draft...Since that is OUR best way we should go for playing it till you find the player you need....And you find that player with higher picks...

Again, the draft is very important. When did I say it wasn't? The teams that draft well in all spots are the most successful.

[billy_hoyle]

SA tanked for Tim Duncan without Tim Duncan they do not win as many titles...Hes one of the greatest Big men to ever play....

Phx got CP3 who is a star who wanted to be there ,KD also demanded a trade there (Not gonna happen for us)

GSW the year they got Curry they been bad for years and basically have been tanking by putting together bad teams and got lucky at 7...(7TH is a good draft pick)

Denver and Mil out of the teams you listed are the 2 that i can see your point but Murray was also a high draft pick....Joker and Giannis are legit franchise players found outside of the lottery....But like i said thats alot rare to find than finding in the top 1-7 Picks....But yes Trades could be good for the Raptors but we are not getting a superstar/franchise player like Kawhi again in a trade....Maybe a DeJounte Murray type....But not a legit top 5 player in a trade ....Won't happen for the Raptors ever again

Jokic at #41 (Glen Robinson III #40)
Draymond at #35 (Jae Crowder #34)
Butler at #30 (Cory Joseph #29, by the Spurs btw)
Giannis at #15 (Shabazz Muhammed #14)
Kawhi at #15 (Marcus Morris #14)
Booker at #13 (Trey Lyles #12)
Mitchell at #13 (Luke Kennard #13)
Haliburton #12 (Devin Vessell #11)
Klay at #11 (Jimmer Feddette #10)
George at #10 (Gordon Hayward #9)
Curry at #7 (Johnny Flynn #6)
etc

It's very possible to add elite talent later in the draft. Very rarely is all the top talent concentrated at the very top. The smart organizations can find it.

This has been regurgitated on this forum a million times. There are almost always star players available outside the top 10 of a draft. It happens every year.

The recent All-NBA teams are littered with late lottery (and lower) picks. It's basically half and half.

There are a LOT of busts in the top 10.

Scouting is absolutely paramount. Identifying star talent in the draft is the main way we can become contenders. The best drafting teams (no matter where they draft) will continue to win. Look at Denver, look at OKC, look at us (after another stud this draft )
I have faith in Masai/Dan to make the right pick(s).

[OakleyDokely]

Its not about getting top picks and winning titles man....Its about getting that one player to build around....Guys like Wemby/Scoot for example....Or if you find a draft class that has a few guys that may look like franchise players....Or maybe you get lucky where a guy falls to you at 7 like GSW did....

Its not about just getting high picks year after year its about trying to find high level talent to build around....Guys like Barnes...With lower picks its much harder to find a franchise player....You need higher picks just to increase the odds of getting that player...

Raptors atm just need a player to build around...As good as Barnes is i do not think hes a franchise player though...So we have to keep searching....I don't think a trade/free agent will ever do this so that is why anyone who wants to play the draft for a bit wants to do that because it just makes the most logical sense...Since we are not a desired destination

Is Scoot even going to be better than John Wall?

I hope most that saw Embiid play saw Hakeem potential but due to injury scare dropped. The draft is tough, If Michael Porter Jr didn't have back problems he'd be #1 with Luka (lol Phoenix and Sacramento). MPJ is like Bachero but shooting 50/40/80. Still he's only like a 2nd option at best on a championship team. With time, Luka may be viewed as a #2 option on a championship team because of his bad defense? May end up just being Carmelo Anthony 2.0.

Outside of Wemby I don't think any player left could possibly be better than a #2 option. Even Wemby may top out at Porzingis and might have injury concerns due to size.

Scoot is an undersized, low efficiency guard who doesn't shoot it all that well. If people are expecting him to be a franchise level, top 10-15 player, I think they're going to be extremely disappointed. I think he's going to be good, but to be that size and dominate, you better be an elite shooter.

[Clutch0z24]

I just don't agree that the only way to acquire top end talent is to be bad forever and hope for extreme luck.

No one said be bad forever.....You can be bad for a few years and end up getting a franchise player to build around and change your fortunes that way....Its about finding a franchise player at this point....And like i said i don't believe we will ever get one in a trade or free agency...If you think we will get one that way more power to you....Just can't see it though...

T-Mac-Draft
Carter-Draft
Bosh-Draft
Lowry-Trade
DeRozan-Draft
JV-Draft
Stoudamire-Draft
Barnes-Draft
Mo Pete-Draft
Siakam-Draft
Fvv-Drat
OG-Draft
Powell-Draft
Kawhi-Trade

Out of our "Best" Raptors or ones that stick out in my mind we got in the draft....Yeah we got lucky on a few of them but the better prospects we had are top end draft picks....

We have 2 through trade in our history....Which should tell you smething....Our best strength is playing the draft...Since that is OUR best way we should go for playing it till you find the player you need....And you find that player with higher picks...

Again, the draft is very important. When did I say it wasn't? The teams that draft well in all spots are the most successful.

Ok the draft is important right....But your trying to say that it doesn't matter where you pick in the draft....The odds just do not fit with what your saying.....I would rather have the higher picks than the lower picks to find a true franchise player....Sure you can find good players like Siakam/DeRozan Types late in the draft....But im talking about a true legit franchise changing player here...

Getting a fake number 1 option does not help us in the long run lol...

[OakleyDokely]

No one said be bad forever.....You can be bad for a few years and end up getting a franchise player to build around and change your fortunes that way....Its about finding a franchise player at this point....And like i said i don't believe we will ever get one in a trade or free agency...If you think we will get one that way more power to you....Just can't see it though...

T-Mac-Draft
Carter-Draft
Bosh-Draft
Lowry-Trade
DeRozan-Draft
JV-Draft
Stoudamire-Draft
Barnes-Draft
Mo Pete-Draft
Siakam-Draft
Fvv-Drat
OG-Draft
Powell-Draft
Kawhi-Trade

Out of our "Best" Raptors or ones that stick out in my mind we got in the draft....Yeah we got lucky on a few of them but the better prospects we had are top end draft picks....

We have 2 through trade in our history....Which should tell you smething....Our best strength is playing the draft...Since that is OUR best way we should go for playing it till you find the player you need....And you find that player with higher picks...

Again, the draft is very important. When did I say it wasn't? The teams that draft well in all spots are the most successful.

Ok the draft is important right....But your trying to say that it doesn't matter where you pick in the draft....The odds just do not fit with what your saying.....I would rather have the higher picks than the lower picks to find a true franchise player....Sure you can find good players like Siakam/DeRozan Types late in the draft....But im talking about a true legit franchise changing player here...

Getting a fake number 1 option does not help us in the long run lol...

I didn't say it doesn't matter. I said relying on being bad and lottery luck isn't how quality organizations build champions.

[Psubs]

Its not about getting top picks and winning titles man....Its about getting that one player to build around....Guys like Wemby/Scoot for example....Or if you find a draft class that has a few guys that may look like franchise players....Or maybe you get lucky where a guy falls to you at 7 like GSW did....

Its not about just getting high picks year after year its about trying to find high level talent to build around....Guys like Barnes...With lower picks its much harder to find a franchise player....You need higher picks just to increase the odds of getting that player...

Raptors atm just need a player to build around...As good as Barnes is i do not think hes a franchise player though...So we have to keep searching....I don't think a trade/free agent will ever do this so that is why anyone who wants to play the draft for a bit wants to do that because it just makes the most logical sense...Since we are not a desired destination

Is Scoot even going to be better than John Wall?

I hope most that saw Embiid play saw Hakeem potential but due to injury scare dropped. The draft is tough, If Michael Porter Jr didn't have back problems he'd be #1 with Luka (lol Phoenix and Sacramento). MPJ is like Bachero but shooting 50/40/80. Still he's only like a 2nd option at best on a championship team. With time, Luka may be viewed as a #2 option on a championship team because of his bad defense? May end up just being Carmelo Anthony 2.0.

Outside of Wemby I don't think any player left could possibly be better than a #2 option. Even Wemby may top out at Porzingis and might have injury concerns due to size.

Scoot is an undersized, low efficiency guard who doesn't shoot it all that well. If people are expecting him to be a franchise level, top 10-15 player, I think they're going to be extremely disappointed. I think he's going to be good, but to be that size and dominate, you better be an elite shooter.

I have Wemby, BMiller then Scoot. #4 I have no clue. lol Cissoko!!!!

[Clutch0z24]

Again, the draft is very important. When did I say it wasn't? The teams that draft well in all spots are the most successful.

Ok the draft is important right....But your trying to say that it doesn't matter where you pick in the draft....The odds just do not fit with what your saying.....I would rather have the higher picks than the lower picks to find a true franchise player....Sure you can find good players like Siakam/DeRozan Types late in the draft....But im talking about a true legit franchise changing player here...

Getting a fake number 1 option does not help us in the long run lol...

I didn't say it doesn't matter. I said relying on being bad and lottery luck isn't how quality organizations build champions.

1984
Hakeem 1
Michael Jordan 3

1985
Patrick Ewing 1
Karl Malone 13

1987
David Robinson 1
Scottie Pippen 5
Reggie Miller 11

1988
Mitch Richmond-5

1989
Tim Hardaway 14

1990
Gary Payton 2

1991
Dikembe Mutombo 4

1992
Shaq 1
Alonzo Mourning 2

1993
Chris Webber 1
Penny Hardaway-3

1994
Jason Kidd-2
Grant Hill-3

1995
Kevin Garnett-5

1996
Allen Iverson-1
Ray Allen-5
Kobe Bryant-13
Steve Nash-15

1997
Tim Duncan-1
T-Mac-9

1998
Vince Carter-5
Dirk Nowitzki-9
Paul Pierce-10

1999
Elton Brand-1
Steve Francis-2
Baron Davis-3
Manu Ginobili-57

2001
Pau Gasol-3
Tony Parker-28

2002
Yao Ming-1
Amar'e Stoudemire-9

2003
LeBron James-1
CarMelo Anthony-3
Bosh-4
Wade-5

2004
Dwight Howard-1

2005
Chris Paul-4

2006
Brandon Roy-6
Rondo-21
Lowry-24

2007
Kevin Durant-2

2008
Derrick Rose-1
Westbrook-4
Love-5

2009
Harden-3
Curry-7

2010
George-10

2011
Irving-1
Klay-11
Kawhi-15
Butler-30

2012
Anthony Davis-1
Beal-3
Lillard-6

2013
Giannis-15

2014
Embiid-3
Nikola Jokic-41

2015
KAT-1
Booker-13

Just did up until 2015 but even from 2015 and beyond you can see the players who are "Stars" or HOF or however you want to call it are more than likely going to be spotted high in the draft....Its very rare you get outside that top 10 and get a franchise changing player....But like i said most the time a player that is a franchise changer is usually already mocked at 1-5 anyways

That is why i think playing the draft for us is smart cause we would have more of a chance getting that kinda player than getting picks 13-20 every year and not winning in the playoffs anyways...

Im not saying all these players are franchise players im just pointing out that talent is going to be found higher in the draft more than not...

[Kevin Willis]

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[NotMyKawhi]

SA, PHX, MIL, DEN, GS etc all seemed to find stars without tanking.

SA tanked for Tim Duncan without Tim Duncan they do not win as many titles...Hes one of the greatest Big men to ever play....

Phx got CP3 who is a star who wanted to be there ,KD also demanded a trade there (Not gonna happen for us)

GSW the year they got Curry they been bad for years and basically have been tanking by putting together bad teams and got lucky at 7...(7TH is a good draft pick)

Denver and Mil out of the teams you listed are the 2 that i can see your point but Murray was also a high draft pick....Joker and Giannis are legit franchise players found outside of the lottery....But like i said thats alot rare to find than finding in the top 1-7 Picks....But yes Trades could be good for the Raptors but we are not getting a superstar/franchise player like Kawhi again in a trade....Maybe a DeJounte Murray type....But not a legit top 5 player in a trade ....Won't happen for the Raptors ever again

Jokic at #41
Draymond at #35
Butler at #30
Giannis at #15
Kawhi at #15
Booker at #13
Mitchell at #13
Haliburton #12
Klay at #11
George at #10
Curry at #7
etc

It's very possible to add elite talent later in the draft. Very rarely is all the top talent concentrated at the very top. The smart organizations can find it.

Possible, but less likely. You had a list of 11 and included guys like Hali, Draymond and Klay..... I could give you a list of 50 or more guys on that same level picked in the top 5

[bboyskinnylegs]

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I like Sidy and Leonard, but if all three of them went in the lotto would mean we'd have some additional interesting options to select from at 13.