Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

[Boselecta]

So it looks like we don't have a major upcoming Canadian star but we appear to have a deep growing pool of solid talent. I think this will help us a lot in these qualifying tournaments for world cups and Olympics.

Canadians are too good for their own good, so much NBA talent who cant play in FIBA windows.

Yeah its kind of crazy we had this big rush of NBA talent guys but not many mid tier euro league level guys. With more than 150 Canadians currently in the men's NCAA I'm assuming some of these guys will carve our solid careers overseas and will help in FIBA windows.

[Hair Canada]

So it looks like we don't have a major upcoming Canadian star but we appear to have a deep growing pool of solid talent. I think this will help us a lot in these qualifying tournaments for world cups and Olympics.

You never know. Shaedon Sharpe is just as talented and promising as Jamal and Shai were when they were his age (arguably, even more). Naturally, that doesn't guarantee anything, but he has the talent to be the next Canadian NBA star.

[Mirotic12]

Yeah its kind of crazy we had this big rush of NBA talent guys but not many mid tier euro league level guys. With more than 150 Canadians currently in the men's NCAA I'm assuming some of these guys will carve our solid careers overseas and will help in FIBA windows.

EuroLeague players don't play in the windows either. Under the current FIBA system, national teams like Spain, France, Canada, Greece, Lithuania, Serbia, etc. are just going to have to deal with an unfair to them setup.

[Snowwy]

So it looks like we don't have a major upcoming Canadian star but we appear to have a deep growing pool of solid talent. I think this will help us a lot in these qualifying tournaments for world cups and Olympics.

You never know. Shaedon Sharpe is just as talented and promising as Jamal and Shai were when they were his age (arguably, even more). Naturally, that doesn't guarantee anything, but he has the talent to be the next Canadian NBA star.

Are we sure this is true? I personally don’t think this is true. Sharpe has an insane body and athleticism , but all indications are that he is raw, maybe very raw as he didn’t play at college. Very hard to compare that to what Jamal Murray did at UK. How many freshmen scored 20 ppg this year? Pretty tough to compare 0 PPG to 20 PPG.

[Boselecta]

Yeah its kind of crazy we had this big rush of NBA talent guys but not many mid tier euro league level guys. With more than 150 Canadians currently in the men's NCAA I'm assuming some of these guys will carve our solid careers overseas and will help in FIBA windows.

EuroLeague players don't play in the windows either. Under the current FIBA system, national teams like Spain, France, Canada, Greece, Lithuania, Serbia, etc. are just going to have to deal with an unfair to them setup.

For whatever reason I thought they let there players leave for international duty kinda like soccer guess not

[mojo13]

Yeah its kind of crazy we had this big rush of NBA talent guys but not many mid tier euro league level guys. With more than 150 Canadians currently in the men's NCAA I'm assuming some of these guys will carve our solid careers overseas and will help in FIBA windows.

EuroLeague players don't play in the windows either. Under the current FIBA system, national teams like Spain, France, Canada, Greece, Lithuania, Serbia, etc. are just going to have to deal with an unfair to them setup.

For whatever reason I thought they let there players leave for international duty kinda like soccer guess not

The FIBA affiliated leagues break and release players. EuroLeague is in an ongoing conflict with FIBA and doesn't co-ordinate with them - pretty much they actively oppose. Some national federations have enough power over the local EuroLeague clubs to get them to release players but many do not (Mirotic is being hyperbolic here - but he is right Spain, France, Serbia etc are the most impacted)

A couple other comments on this topic - Canada has three EuroLeague players currently (Pangos, Dyshawn Pierre and Marial Shayok). Kyle Alexander and Naz Mitrou Long are top candidates to be there next year. There are a number of others that could crack through.

But really why we dont see more is that good EuroLeague players are pretty close to deep roster NBA players. And any borderline Canadian is going to take his many stabs at the NBA and bounce around stateside before going all in and commit to the EuroLeague (which they need to do). Euro players will head to the EL before the NBA. Heck the EuroLeague is no joke and it may be easier to make the end of the roster on an NBA than a EuroLeague team for many of these North American guys. Lindell Wigginton likely isnt making a EL team right now. Would Iggy Brazdeikis, Nate Darling, Nik Stuaskas, Mychal Mulder, Mfiondu Kabengele? Some of them could (and probably will)....but not all. They sort of need to prove themselves in a lower European league first which many don't want to do. They expect to go straight to EL which is a very different game - look how Nik Stuaskas struggled....Kyle Wiltjer too. Anthony Bennett was awful. Tyler Ennis has never made it back to the EL after his injuries (easily could though).

[mojo13]

So it looks like we don't have a major upcoming Canadian star but we appear to have a deep growing pool of solid talent. I think this will help us a lot in these qualifying tournaments for world cups and Olympics.

You never know. Shaedon Sharpe is just as talented and promising as Jamal and Shai were when they were his age (arguably, even more). Naturally, that doesn't guarantee anything, but he has the talent to be the next Canadian NBA star.

Are we sure this is true? I personally don’t think this is true. Sharpe has an insane body and athleticism , but all indications are that he is raw, maybe very raw as he didn’t play at college. Very hard to compare that to what Jamal Murray did at UK. How many freshmen scored 20 ppg this year? Pretty tough to compare 0 PPG to 20 PPG.

Nope. No one should be sure of Sharpe yet. No one has seen enough. But as Hair says, there is raw talent there that he COULD become a star.

[Hair Canada]

You never know. Shaedon Sharpe is just as talented and promising as Jamal and Shai were when they were his age (arguably, even more). Naturally, that doesn't guarantee anything, but he has the talent to be the next Canadian NBA star.

Are we sure this is true? I personally don’t think this is true. Sharpe has an insane body and athleticism , but all indications are that he is raw, maybe very raw as he didn’t play at college. Very hard to compare that to what Jamal Murray did at UK. How many freshmen scored 20 ppg this year? Pretty tough to compare 0 PPG to 20 PPG.

Nope. No one should be sure of Sharpe yet. No one has seen enough. But as Hair says, there is raw talent there that he COULD become a star.

Yes, that's it. Hard to go back in time, but despite Jamal being quite good at Kentucky, he had many doubters, who considered him as simply a scorer (2apg in college) with a questionable defense, a poor-man's version of D'Angelo Russell (a common best-case-scenario comparison at the time). As for Shai, I can't think of one basketball analyst (of the realistic kind) who believed he would become what he is today (myself included, though I think I was one of the bigger believers in him). Especially given what looked like limited athleticism and speed, combined with a thin frame and unorthodox shooting mechanics with a slow release. He was mostly considered a 4* coming out of high school and even when he left KY not many thought he could become an NBA star.

I still have some doubts about the extent of Sharpe's drive (though much less than two years ago) and of course, there are some flaws in his game (like any prospect), which I've written about before. And sure, he's raw. He's 18yo. But the talent is undeniable and tantalizing -- as close as you can get to a "sure thing", while noting that there's no such thing and he could end up being a (relative) bust, like just about any other prospect.

[Snowwy]

Are we sure this is true? I personally don’t think this is true. Sharpe has an insane body and athleticism , but all indications are that he is raw, maybe very raw as he didn’t play at college. Very hard to compare that to what Jamal Murray did at UK. How many freshmen scored 20 ppg this year? Pretty tough to compare 0 PPG to 20 PPG.

Nope. No one should be sure of Sharpe yet. No one has seen enough. But as Hair says, there is raw talent there that he COULD become a star.

Yes, that's it. Hard to go back in time, but despite Jamal being quite good at Kentucky, he had many doubters, who considered him as simply a scorer (2apg in college) with a questionable defense, a poor-man's version of D'Angelo Russell (a common best-case-scenario comparison at the time). As for Shai, I can't think of one basketball analyst (of the realistic kind) who believed he would become what he is today (myself included, though I think I was one of the bigger believers in him). Especially given what looked like limited athleticism and speed, combined with a thin frame and unorthodox shooting mechanics with a slow release. He was mostly considered a 4* coming out of high school and even when he left KY not many thought he could become an NBA star.

I still have some doubts about the extent of Sharpe's drive (though much less than two years ago) and of course, there are some flaws in his game (like any prospect), which I've written about before. And sure, he's raw. He's 18yo. But the talent is undeniable and tantalizing -- as close as you can get to a "sure thing", while noting that there's no such thing and he could end up being a (relative) bust, like just about any other prospect.

Yeah, maybe. I think if he were the guy you are describing, he would enter this draft and go #1. This is not a strong draft at the top. Whoever goes #1 will be the weakest #1 on draft day since 2013 likely.

[BigDocta898]

So it looks like we don't have a major upcoming Canadian star but we appear to have a deep growing pool of solid talent. I think this will help us a lot in these qualifying tournaments for world cups and Olympics.

You never know. Shaedon Sharpe is just as talented and promising as Jamal and Shai were when they were his age (arguably, even more). Naturally, that doesn't guarantee anything, but he has the talent to be the next Canadian NBA star.

Are we sure this is true? I personally don’t think this is true. Sharpe has an insane body and athleticism , but all indications are that he is raw, maybe very raw as he didn’t play at college. Very hard to compare that to what Jamal Murray did at UK. How many freshmen scored 20 ppg this year? Pretty tough to compare 0 PPG to 20 PPG.

How is he raw? The kid has one of the nicest shots I've seen and can shoot from anywhere in the gym along with a good handle and insane finishing ability, the only skill he probably lacks is passing which is normal for a young 2 guard

[Madhouse]

You never know. Shaedon Sharpe is just as talented and promising as Jamal and Shai were when they were his age (arguably, even more). Naturally, that doesn't guarantee anything, but he has the talent to be the next Canadian NBA star.

Are we sure this is true? I personally don’t think this is true. Sharpe has an insane body and athleticism , but all indications are that he is raw, maybe very raw as he didn’t play at college. Very hard to compare that to what Jamal Murray did at UK. How many freshmen scored 20 ppg this year? Pretty tough to compare 0 PPG to 20 PPG.

How is he raw? The kid has one of the nicest shots I've seen and can shoot from anywhere in the gym along with a good handle and insane finishing ability, the only skill he probably lacks is passing which is normal for a young 2 guard

he hasn't played college, he needs to stay or he will look extremely raw in the NBA. He isn't Lebron. Being raw for a 18-19 year old HS player is normal.

[BigDocta898]

Are we sure this is true? I personally don’t think this is true. Sharpe has an insane body and athleticism , but all indications are that he is raw, maybe very raw as he didn’t play at college. Very hard to compare that to what Jamal Murray did at UK. How many freshmen scored 20 ppg this year? Pretty tough to compare 0 PPG to 20 PPG.

How is he raw? The kid has one of the nicest shots I've seen and can shoot from anywhere in the gym along with a good handle and insane finishing ability, the only skill he probably lacks is passing which is normal for a young 2 guard

he hasn't played college, he needs to stay or he will look extremely raw in the NBA. He isn't Lebron. Being raw for a 18-19 year old HS player is normal.

So bc you didn't see him play you assume he's raw? Guys who are raw just dominate physically shaedon dominates everywhere on the floor

[Snowwy]

How is he raw? The kid has one of the nicest shots I've seen and can shoot from anywhere in the gym along with a good handle and insane finishing ability, the only skill he probably lacks is passing which is normal for a young 2 guard

he hasn't played college, he needs to stay or he will look extremely raw in the NBA. He isn't Lebron. Being raw for a 18-19 year old HS player is normal.

So bc you didn't see him play you assume he's raw? Guys who are raw just dominate physically shaedon dominates everywhere on the floor

Where did you catch his college games?

[aminiaturebuddha]

So the four Canadians who were playing major roles on powerhouse teams were all beaten in the last two days and their seasons are done. I thought it would be interesting to take stock and see how people view Bennedict Mathurin, Zach Edey, Andrew Nembhard, and Caleb Houstan now that the year is over for them.

I think we have a pretty good idea of what Mathurin is. He'll likely be a lottery pick (maybe even top 10) this summer, and seems to have the skills and drive to be an excellent NBA shooting guard for years to come.

I think I also have a sense of who Edey will be. I think he's a guy who could eventually find a role on an NBA bench on some team for a few years, but is probably better off going to Europe and having a very good career there. He'll be a crucial piece for Team Canada for the next 3 cycles, but might not have much NBA success given the current nature of the game.

Nembhard is probably in the same position as Edey. I think he'll try to hang onto the NBA dream for a few years, and will probably be on the fringes of NBA rosters for a while, but he might also be better off going to Europe sooner rather than later. He's a solid point guard, and is tremendous at making entry passes, but I've always thought that his game could benefit from him being a little more aggressive and assertive. At this point, though, it seems that just isn't his style. But he could also help the national team a lot going forward in the Cory Joseph-type role of a steady leader that needs scoring help.

Houstan's future I think is still up in the air. I really hope he goes back to school, because he still has a lot to work on. One of the main things he needs to work on is his ballhandling. All year, I almost never saw him use his dribble to create for himself or others. Part of that might have been his role in Michigan's system, but it seems like a big part is lack of ability. Without that, he's just a catch-and-shoot player, and frankly, his outside shooting isn't consistent enough right now to be that guy. I actually thought his defence was solid most of the times I saw him. He seems to make the right reads on rotations and switches, which is an important skill for any NBA defence, but he'll still need to be able to get himself open a bit better to be a 3-and-D guy, and will really need to learn how to create if he hopes to be anything more than that.

How do other people view these 4 players?

[Snowwy]

Mathurin is very good. My opinion is that he should be a lower end starter in the NBA for many years. Probably around a top 100 player. Didn't see a ton of Arizona this year, only maybe three full games and then the key parts of the TCU game.

Edey should go back to school. He is way way way too slow for the NBA. He needs to get in shape and improve his footwork, etc. He is not an NBA player in any way besides being 7'4", so he should go back to school and see if he can get any other NBA skills. As you say, he will be successful in the FIBA game and should be a key contributor for the next 10 years. With the lack of height on many Canada teams, you could probably argue that his development is crucial for team Canada due to positional scarcity.

Nembhard is not a NBA player. Defense is not good, shooting isn't great. He is not a scorer, this I am sure. I watched 22 Gonzaga games this year from the East Coast because I am crazy. But he is a good PG for international basketball. I would just like to see better defensive, he has the body/tools but his feet are slow.

Houstan is a NBA player in the future, but borderline for me. I agree that one more year at school could be good. Of the four, I have seen him by far the least. Obviously you take him on Team Canada for his potential shooting. I have nothing else to add here.

[mojo13]

Mathurin is very good. My opinion is that he should be a lower end starter in the NBA for many years. Probably around a top 100 player. Didn't see a ton of Arizona this year, only maybe three full games and then the key parts of the TCU game.

Edey should go back to school. He is way way way too slow for the NBA. He needs to get in shape and improve his footwork, etc. He is not an NBA player in any way besides being 7'4", so he should go back to school and see if he can get any other NBA skills. As you say, he will be successful in the FIBA game and should be a key contributor for the next 10 years. With the lack of height on many Canada teams, you could probably argue that his development is crucial for team Canada due to positional scarcity.

Nembhard is not a NBA player. Defense is not good, shooting isn't great. He is not a scorer, this I am sure. I watched 22 Gonzaga games this year from the East Coast because I am crazy. But he is a good PG for international basketball. I would just like to see better defensive, he has the body/tools but his feet are slow.

Houstan is a NBA player in the future, but borderline for me. I agree that one more year at school could be good. Of the four, I have seen him by far the least. Obviously you take him on Team Canada for his potential shooting. I have nothing else to add here.

I'm a little different than you both....

Mathurin at this point I think is an easy Top 10 pick in this draft and pushing top 6 or7. I think his floor is NBA starter with a little bit more upside. I like him allot and am quite optimistic about his future.

Edey I am little more down on post March. I really think he needs to stay at Purdue for at least another year and continue to work on his game. He is such a defensive liability out there against smaller, quicker teams even at the NCAA level, I cant see how you put him in the floor in the NBA. He offensive upside just wouldn't compensate at this point in the NBA as it can in the NCAA. I, as well, hope he heads to Europe to continues to improve rather than stagnate at the deep end of an NBA bench. I honestly don't see him as a crucial piece to the SMNT but one of the many that could plug a SMNT deficiency when the better players don't show. Yes the FIBA game is different so maybe I'm being hyperbolic here but at this point (and years to come) I'd rather have KO, Birch, TT, Kyle Alexander and even Boucher(!) manning the paint for Canada. Aimaq and Bediako could end up more useful. Is there a role for Edey as a limited minutes tool? Probably...but he is far from a crucial piece for the SMNT in my mind right now.

With Nembhard I've never really been a huge fan and that hasn't really changed. His size, playmaking and game managment is intriguing and he could even end up a decent back up PG in the NBA. But like Edey I don't see him as a crucial piece to the SMNT going forward. PG is a position of depth for Canada and unless Nembhard heads to Europe and plays FIBA for years I'm not sure Nembhard he ever gets above an aging CoJo nor the experienced FIBA vets like Pangos TBH, Phil Scrubb, Tyler Ennis or Kenny Chery. As the youngest of the crew I could see him in time inheriting the "winter core" starting PG role if he was in Europe. Considering our attendance struggles, I surely admit he could have an important role for the SMNT over time, but I see him as just another potential solid player in the mix.

Houstan was a mess this year and honestly we should all be quite concerned. He may not even be an NBA player and unless he improves dramatically into next year he'll fall off the draft boards like a rock. We have seen it many times before.
He needs much improvement before he can reliably contribute to the SMNT. He was a mess at the u19s and through most of his freshman season at Michigan. I never really saw him before that and now really question all his hype. Certainly he could turn it around but he shouldn't be close to anyone's radar for the SMNT right now. It is not near time to give up and I hope he is around the u23 team tis summer (just in case).

[Snowwy]

Mathurin is very good. My opinion is that he should be a lower end starter in the NBA for many years. Probably around a top 100 player. Didn't see a ton of Arizona this year, only maybe three full games and then the key parts of the TCU game.

Edey should go back to school. He is way way way too slow for the NBA. He needs to get in shape and improve his footwork, etc. He is not an NBA player in any way besides being 7'4", so he should go back to school and see if he can get any other NBA skills. As you say, he will be successful in the FIBA game and should be a key contributor for the next 10 years. With the lack of height on many Canada teams, you could probably argue that his development is crucial for team Canada due to positional scarcity.

Nembhard is not a NBA player. Defense is not good, shooting isn't great. He is not a scorer, this I am sure. I watched 22 Gonzaga games this year from the East Coast because I am crazy. But he is a good PG for international basketball. I would just like to see better defensive, he has the body/tools but his feet are slow.

Houstan is a NBA player in the future, but borderline for me. I agree that one more year at school could be good. Of the four, I have seen him by far the least. Obviously you take him on Team Canada for his potential shooting. I have nothing else to add here.

I'm a little different than you both....

Mathurin at this point I think is an easy Top 10 pick in this draft and pushing top 6 or7. I think his floor is NBA starter with a little bit more upside.

To clarify, we agree on Mathurin, I meant top 100 in the NBA (in other words a 4th best player on a good team, or 3rd best on a bad team).

[mojo13]

Yeah we agree there. I prefaced "a little different" thinking in totality. We all aren't too different on the others.



Back too Houstan how many other Canadians started their freshman season in the lottery on mocks and ended up deep in the 2nd or off completely by the end of the year? Kabongo? Shittu? There had to be others.

This is my worry for Houstan.

[frumble]

Yeah we agree there. I prefaced "a little different" thinking in totality. We all aren't too different on the others.



Back too Houstan how many other Canadians started their freshman season in the lottery on mocks and ended up deep in the 2nd or off completely by the end of the year? Kabongo? Shittu? There had to be others.

This is my worry for Houstan.

Not quite the same, but I believe Famutimi was considered one of the top 15 or 20 HS players of his class heading into his senior season but, largely b/c of a torn ACL suffered during that senior season, went undrafted when he declared a couple years later.

[mojo13]

This irked me:

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What the heck is Basketball Canada doing? Mike Bartlett (new CEO) goes on the radio a couple months ago and says they are going to announce a summer "core" during the Feb WC window. No announcement, not a word about it....we wonder what happened...then this?

Why wait? Who cares where the games are played? Or better yet, why even bother announcing a core? Based on history don't we all know how this is going to shake out?

So we now have one deadline passed. They say the core is set, but that is likely BS. There is a very good chance SGA, Murray, Dort, Birch all miss the July WC Qualifier games due to injury. Would they be announced as part of the core? If not, do they join at a later date? What about FAs like Boucher?

They’ll either regularly announce changes to the “core” or it’ll be a pool of just about every NBA player (like the last couple summers) and whoever shows…shows. Pretty much what the USA does because that’s the reality of the modern NBA and its relationship with FIBA.

I’d be very surprised if a consistent 3-5 NBA players play the next 3 summers of SMNTs. 2022 WC Qualifiers, 2023 World Cup, 2024 Olympics (and Qualifier)

To me the "core" might seem like a good idea at first to the masses but it will be exposed as yet another foolish path that is just going to blow up in Canada Basketball's face again. It is either going to be meaningless (20+ guys with changes ever summer), or they'll be working with a weakened roster.

Isnt the best path to continuing pushing hard on getting the best players to show when they are healthy physically & contract-wise.
And for Canada to better address positions of weakness (size + three point shooting). And then just actually prepare better? Have better (longer) training camps where guys actually show up on time and actually play a slate of exhibitions. This past summer had guys showing up (like Cojo) a week after camp started (same as the World Cup) and then not one exhibition game.