Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[LastNameEver]

Who is this dude though? Some random Twitter poster?

A) He's a local SI beat writer

B) I think what he's trying to show is that even though we want to play 0.5 basketball, we revert to mismatch hunting if we have the advantage.

I don’t think he knows exactly what 0.5 offence is.

It’s about initiating an action within “0.5 seconds”, not literally moving the ball around like a hot potato.

The 0.5 comes into play when you dont have a mismatch/advantage. These beat writers read about basketball but they dont actually understand the nuance involved.

[DG88]

Who is this dude though? Some random Twitter poster?

A) He's a local SI beat writer

B) I think what he's trying to show is that even though we want to play 0.5 basketball, we revert to mismatch hunting if we have the advantage.

That's not how his comment came off. The way he put it it made it seem like they shouldn't have been mismatch hunting when they have a roster where two of their best players have mismatch advantages. You can't play 0.5 basketball all game. You're not the GSW.

The first thing he wrote in his tweet is this is not a critique of Scottie. Next he says this doesn't look like 0.5 basketball to get the shots that Scottie got. This is a reference that the offense revert back to mismatch hunting like last year.

[YogurtProducer]

A) He's a local SI beat writer

B) I think what he's trying to show is that even though we want to play 0.5 basketball, we revert to mismatch hunting if we have the advantage.

That's not how his comment came off. The way he put it it made it seem like they shouldn't have been mismatch hunting when they have a roster where two of their best players have mismatch advantages. You can't play 0.5 basketball all game. You're not the GSW.

The first thing he wrote in his tweet is this is not a critique of Scottie. Next he says this doesn't look like 0.5 basketball to get the shots that Scottie got. This is a reference that the offense revert back to mismatch hunting like last year.

Agreed but I think any team should have a bit of both anyways.

If Scottie has a guard on him he needs to take him.

[DG88]

That's not how his comment came off. The way he put it it made it seem like they shouldn't have been mismatch hunting when they have a roster where two of their best players have mismatch advantages. You can't play 0.5 basketball all game. You're not the GSW.

The first thing he wrote in his tweet is this is not a critique of Scottie. Next he says this doesn't look like 0.5 basketball to get the shots that Scottie got. This is a reference that the offense revert back to mismatch hunting like last year.

Agreed but I think any team should have a bit of both anyways.

If Scottie has a guard on him he needs to take him.

Oh I totally agree with that. If you have a mismatch you attack it until the defense changes.

[Tha Cynic]

A) He's a local SI beat writer

B) I think what he's trying to show is that even though we want to play 0.5 basketball, we revert to mismatch hunting if we have the advantage.

That's not how his comment came off. The way he put it it made it seem like they shouldn't have been mismatch hunting when they have a roster where two of their best players have mismatch advantages. You can't play 0.5 basketball all game. You're not the GSW.

The first thing he wrote in his tweet is this is not a critique of Scottie. Next he says this doesn't look like 0.5 basketball to get the shots that Scottie got. This is a reference that the offense revert back to mismatch hunting like last year.

Ah okay, I just saw that tweet and that's probably what most saw. You will still need Barnes and Siakam to do that but the hope is that the 0.5 basketball is still utilized throughout the game to get others involved more.

[Thaddy]

We need to get some more shooting. Even if it is in spurts it will make the defense adjust.

Removing Flynn out of the rotation in favor of Boucher. This will mean we switch our lineups from having Trent off the bench to starting (more shooting) and Schroder being the sixth man.

Schroder should make Boucher and Achiuwa bigger scoring threats. We need to start to play Dick and Porter more minutes as well.

Optimally:

Poeltl - Achiuwa
Siakam - Boucher
OG - Porter
Trent - Dick
Barnes - Schroder

Raise Trent's value and then sell him for a combo guard like Nembhard. I don't really see Gary doing much that I can't envision Dick doing very soon.

[tsherkin]

We can all see the turnovers. But we can also see the great that comes out of him dictating play and running the team. He needs to clean it up, but what we're seeing is great progress.

Yes. This isn't a season where we are competing for the title. Scottie is like 5 years old and still relatively new to the league. It wouldn't be abnormal or terrible for him to have a whole crapload of turnovers over the season as he learns the ropes. 2 games in, specifics aren't really something to focus on.

Aggression/assertiveness and more subjective stuff like that is considerably more important right now. Confidence, willingness to attack certain ways, etc. 20, 40 games in, stats will slowly become more relevant to one degree or another. Definitely not in the first week of the season, though.

[Scase]

11 turnovers in 2 games is superstar stuff. We're talking Luka and Prime Westbrook type of stuff.

Ya, top players turn the ball over... maybe our posters are not use to that. More usage and passing that tends to happen.. He'll get use to it.. whatever

Top players also have significantly higher usage rates and score much more. Like Luka putting up 30+ points and ~10 assists on 35-40 USG% with 4-5 turnovers is not the same as Scottie putting up 20 points and 8-10 assists on 25 USG% with 7 turnovers lol.

I love what I've seen from Scottie so far through pre-season and these first 2 games though. The difference in his shot mechanics and aggressiveness are night and day compared to last season while his team defence has taken another step in the right direction to making him an extremely impactful defender when used correctly. He looks primed for an absolutely monstrous season. I was hoping for 18/7/6 type numbers with slightly improved efficiency and defence, but he could realistically flirt with a 20-point triple-double every night while being a defensive force. He just needs to clean up those turnovers and continue to make better decisions late in the game. It might be ugly (turnover-wise) for a while, but I can more than live with it if he's going to continue to impress in every other aspect.

Last night he was a 22pt trip dub with solid defense and 69.8% TS%. It's obviously only 2 games, but even with his super inefficient first game, he's sitting at 56.7% TS% which is up about 5% from last year, while putting up 19/9.5/7.5. Based on how he's been playing from the perspective of aggression, and better shot mechanics, I think your hopes might be pretty easily achieved by him this season.

[tsherkin]

Last night he was a 22pt trip dub with solid defense and 69.8% TS%. It's obviously only 2 games, but even with his super inefficient first game, he's sitting at 56.7% TS% which is up about 5% from last year,

If league average is the same as last year, that's actually still quite bad. But tbf, as I said in my last post, two games don't mean squat. The hope is that he'll be league-average or better this season. Certainly starting well tonight.

[mdenny]

In regards to the turnovers......

We have to expect the raps to be among league leaders in turnovers. Every type of game approach has concessions. Darko has already said (pqraphrasing) "we are gonna have alit of turnovers and that's ok".

It's the same thing as Nurse's "protect the paint" defense is gonna concede some open outside shooting.

If you don't want turnovers.....you can't also want the .5 offense and tons of ball movement. They go hand-in-hand.

So to be fair to scotty....we should probably identify what kind of turnovers are happening.

If he tries to make a risky pass in order to produce an easy bucket....that's OK. More specifically...I the turnover is a function of our new game approach then there has to be some understanding of that.

But turnovers like the one with 20 seconds left against the Bulls....obviously not ok.

In anycase...anyone NOT expecting us to be top 5 to 7 in turnovers this season doesn't really understand the approach darko is trying to implement. We are going to have alot of turnovers. Darko has made a conscious choice to live with that.

[Scase]

Last night he was a 22pt trip dub with solid defense and 69.8% TS%. It's obviously only 2 games, but even with his super inefficient first game, he's sitting at 56.7% TS% which is up about 5% from last year,

If league average is the same as last year, that's actually still quite bad. But tbf, as I said in my last post, two games don't mean squat. The hope is that he'll be league-average or better this season. Certainly starting well tonight.

It is and it isn't, depends what position we are comparing him to. Hilariously (I know 2 games) this season he's actually ABOVE all positions but Center lol. PF league average is 54.4%

But yeah if we count him as a PF he's still like 3% below average, I don't expect league average this season either. But I expect an improvement for sure, 56-57% I think is a win, so long as that isn't his peak.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

wrong thread

[tsherkin]

It is and it isn't, depends what position we are comparing him to.

No, it doesn't If you're 1.5% below league average, your scoring efficiency is dog-ass, period. It's two games, so it's way, way, way too early to worry. But end of season, if that's where he is, that's failure of at least some degree. But league average is also a moving target, so we'll see where that ends up too.

Improvement from last year is good, but if that improvement is a return to his rookie season, that's... not ideal. It'd be better than remaining where he was last year, but it would also be disappointing. As a third year player, he shouldn't suck that much if what we're expecting from him is consequential usage.

Anyway, I'm hoping he figures out how to get the ball away from Achiuwa and Flynn in this game, because good heavens do we need that.

[Scase]

It is and it isn't, depends what position we are comparing him to.

No, it doesn't If you're 1.5% below league average, your scoring efficiency is dog-ass, period. It's two games, so it's way, way, way too early to worry. But end of season, if that's where he is, that's failure of at least some degree. But league average is also a moving target, so we'll see where that ends up too.

Improvement from last year is good, but if that improvement is a return to his rookie season, that's... not ideal. It'd be better than remaining where he was last year, but it would also be disappointing. As a third year player, he shouldn't suck that much if what we're expecting from him is consequential usage.

Anyway, I'm hoping he figures out how to get the ball away from Achiuwa and Flynn in this game, because good heavens do we need that.

His rookie season was 55%, he's pushing 57% so far this year, a 2% increase in massive, if this is his trajectory I'm not complaining. I don't expect to see any substantially higher TS% until this roster isn't dog ****, we have zero spacing and he operates in packed areas. Last night showed he can still get it done, but we need floor spreaders if he's ever going to take a significant step.

[tsherkin]

His rookie season was 55%, he's pushing 57% so far this year, a 2% increase in massive,

I can't stress enough how pointless it is looking at his TS% after two games, so I couldn't possibly care less. If he finishes the season at 57%, that would be a sizeable improvement over last year, yes. That degree of improvement would matter only so much, of course, but still. We'll see where he's at as we approach the AS break. A journey of a thousand miles, and all that.

I don't expect to see any substantially higher TS% until this roster isn't dog ****

That, of course, would be an indictment of his scoring skillset. He needs to be good enough to score at league average efficiency now, or there is a near-zero chance he will ever be able to gain any kind of meaningful efficiency separation. Pretty much all of the really good scorers were able to get it done even when they were on bad teams. Even on teams with poor spacing. Scottie's problem is that over his first two seasons, he has been useless outside of the paint and a weak FT shooter, and that's a major limitation.

Year 3, time to see some meaningful improvements in that skill set. The first one we're looking at might be the 3pt shot, which would be nice. It looks smoother, it looks more comfortable, and him shooting even 33% from 3 would be a major boon.

[Vampirate]

His rookie season was 55%, he's pushing 57% so far this year, a 2% increase in massive,

I can't stress enough how pointless it is looking at his TS% after two games, so I couldn't possibly care less. If he finishes the season at 57%, that would be a sizeable improvement over last year, yes. That degree of improvement would matter only so much, of course, but still. We'll see where he's at as we approach the AS break. A journey of a thousand miles, and all that.

I don't expect to see any substantially higher TS% until this roster isn't dog ****

That, of course, would be an indictment of his scoring skillset. He needs to be good enough to score at league average efficiency now, or there is a near-zero chance he will ever be able to gain any kind of meaningful efficiency separation. Pretty much all of the really good scorers were able to get it done even when they were on bad teams. Even on teams with poor spacing. Scottie's problem is that over his first two seasons, he has been useless outside of the paint and a weak FT shooter, and that's a major limitation.

Year 3, time to see some meaningful improvements in that skill set. The first one we're looking at might be the 3pt shot, which would be nice. It looks smoother, it looks more comfortable, and him shooting even 33% from 3 would be a major boon.

You know he's actually a decent-good FT shooter, his FT% was 77% last year. Thing was he wasn't getting to the FT line enough.

3 games in he's surpassing anything he's done in the past, hope he keeps it up. This is the 3rd straight game where he's close to or over 20 points, so good sign. Also the 2nd straight game where he shot well at 3P.

[tsherkin]

You know he's actually a decent-good FT shooter, his FT% was 77% last year. Thing was he wasn't getting to the FT line enough.

3 games in he's surpassing anything he's done in the past, hope he keeps it up. This is the 3rd straight game where he's close to or over 20 points, so good sign. Also the 2nd straight game where he shot well at 3P.

77% isn't good, but you're right, I was being hyperbolic when I said "weak." That was too strong a qualifier and mostly me thinking about his actual live-ball shot, not his FT shooting.

But even meh FT shooting notwithstanding, the takeaway is that he had an excellent game tonight. He was very far from the reason we lost.

The bolded part isn't really important. He was dog crap as a scorer in the first game. It happens, of course; he was incendiary the next night, so it balanced out. And he was excellent tonight. Performances do vary, obviously.

He's playing well right now. He has weaknesses, but some stuff is looking very promising in the early going.

[Vampirate]

You know he's actually a decent-good FT shooter, his FT% was 77% last year. Thing was he wasn't getting to the FT line enough.

3 games in he's surpassing anything he's done in the past, hope he keeps it up. This is the 3rd straight game where he's close to or over 20 points, so good sign. Also the 2nd straight game where he shot well at 3P.

77% isn't good, but you're right, I was being hyperbolic when I said "weak." That was too strong a qualifier and mostly me thinking about his actual live-ball shot, not his FT shooting.

But even meh FT shooting notwithstanding, the takeaway is that he had an excellent game tonight. He was very far from the reason we lost.

The bolded part isn't really important. He was dog crap as a scorer in the first game. It happens, of course; he was incendiary the next night, so it balanced out. And he was excellent tonight. Performances do vary, obviously.

He's playing well right now. He has weaknesses, but some stuff is looking very promising in the early going.

The key thing with Barnes that separates him from say a Levine or DDR is even if Barnes has an off night he can still effect the game in many other ways.

That opening night he also had 5 blocks, 2 steals, 8 rebounds, 5 assists (4 TOs).

Point is if Zach Levine has an off night or Derozan does, they are really useless on the floor.

If Barnes has an off scoring night, he still impacts winning. And if Barnes has a good-very good scoring night, he has a Superstar impact.

Barnes indeed has weaknesses (handle probably being the biggest depending on where his 3 point shot is at) and he needs to draw FTs better.

[tsherkin]

The key thing with Barnes that separates him from say a Levine or DDR is even if Barnes has an off night he can still effect the game in many other ways.

Sure. Not entirely clear on how that's connected to anything I said, but it's certainly true. He has a more diverse game than the other two.

Barnes indeed has weaknesses (handle probably being the biggest depending on where his 3 point shot is at) and he needs to draw FTs better.

I mean, basically any player has weaknesses. I didn't say that to complain about Scottie. I'm quite happy about his performance tonight, even if he didn't draw any FTs. He was the least of our problems, and was the main reason we stayed in this at any point. He had a wonderful scoring night and had a very well-rounded performance.

[Scase]

His rookie season was 55%, he's pushing 57% so far this year, a 2% increase in massive,

I can't stress enough how pointless it is looking at his TS% after two games, so I couldn't possibly care less. If he finishes the season at 57%, that would be a sizeable improvement over last year, yes. That degree of improvement would matter only so much, of course, but still. We'll see where he's at as we approach the AS break. A journey of a thousand miles, and all that.

I don't expect to see any substantially higher TS% until this roster isn't dog ****

That, of course, would be an indictment of his scoring skillset. He needs to be good enough to score at league average efficiency now, or there is a near-zero chance he will ever be able to gain any kind of meaningful efficiency separation. Pretty much all of the really good scorers were able to get it done even when they were on bad teams. Even on teams with poor spacing. Scottie's problem is that over his first two seasons, he has been useless outside of the paint and a weak FT shooter, and that's a major limitation.

Year 3, time to see some meaningful improvements in that skill set. The first one we're looking at might be the 3pt shot, which would be nice. It looks smoother, it looks more comfortable, and him shooting even 33% from 3 would be a major boon.

I missed the game, but his stat line looks great. I agree he'd still need to be average efficiency even with a mediocre team, but I'm willing to give a "zero level scorer" a little bit more slack.

How was he tonight? Bully ball or was he stretching it outside a bit more? 2/5 from 3 sounds good, open shots, pull ups?