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Some of us have speculated on whether there's any point in making the playoffs (well, maybe not too many of us.) It's the topic of Bruce Arthur's column today, which has a few bits of inside info:

http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/stor ... z0kKGBIDiY

From this vantage point, there is no arguing that keeping Bosh is the best-case scenario, unless you're excited about the idea of Andrea Bargnani and Turkoglu as your top two options. And if you think Bosh isn't a franchise guy because he can't convince Turkoglu and Andrea Bargnani to play hard enough, just know that, in that regard, he is hardly alone.

The chatter over Bosh shutting it down since the all-star break has died down after his last four games - he was named the league's Eastern Conference player of the week Monday after averaging 31.5 points, 11.5 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, 1.5 steals and - the essential barometer of his commitment - 13.0 free-throw attempts.

Which lends credence to a couple of the internal theories surrounding Toronto's franchise player. One is that he was convinced by somebody at all-star weekend to avoid injury on a team going nowhere, perhaps even by a New York-based girlfriend. Which is possible.

The other is that his post-all-star sprained ankle took a toll on him; that some of his teammates, Turkoglu in particular, took a toll on him; and that his jump shot temporarily deserted him, making it tougher to beat defenders off the dribble when they were playing five feet off him. And maybe it's all of that, combined.

But the slender strands of hope regarding Bosh come down to this: if Chris Bosh really does have his heart set on being a team's No. 1 option, as he has said, then playing with LeBron James or Dwyane Wade is out. And then, where can he go to be the franchise guy and have a better chance of winning?

Chicago? Not if the Raptors demand, say, Joakim Noah back in a sign-and-trade. Phoenix? Only if it's a sign-and-trade for fellow free agent Amare Stoudemire. New York, with someone like Joe Johnson? Meh.

Maybe, should general manager Bryan Colangelo somehow promise to and manage to trade Turkoglu - hey, it only sounds impossible - and somehow acquire one more major piece, then maybe Bosh thinks about it. Maybe if Colangelo can replicate his sell job of three years ago, when Bosh signed the contract he will opt out of this summer, then Bosh will stay.

But only if you are on the right side of that bright line between the playoffs and the lottery. It's a thin sort of hope, but it's hope nonetheless. The playoffs matter.

"Yeah, because you put yourself in a position to salvage the Chris thing," said one source who knows Bosh well. "If you don't, I think you're done."

It's something. Which beats nothing. Which remains, to be clear, a distinct possibility.

That's it basically:
"Yeah, because you put yourself in a position to salvage the Chris thing," said one source who knows Bosh well. "If you don't, I think you're done."

supersub15 wrote:That's it basically:
"Yeah, because you put yourself in a position to salvage the Chris thing," said one source who knows Bosh well. "If you don't, I think you're done."

Yup.

One thing I took away from that article as well (and this took some reading between the lines) seems to be that Bosh really has a problem with Turkoglu and has half-assed attitude. These are the passages that gave me that impression:

And if you think Bosh isn't a franchise guy because he can't convince Turkoglu and Andrea Bargnani to play hard enough, just know that, in that regard, he is hardly alone

The other is that his post-all-star sprained ankle took a toll on him; that some of his teammates, Turkoglu in particular, took a toll on him;

Maybe, should general manager Bryan Colangelo somehow promise to and manage to trade Turkoglu - hey, it only sounds impossible - and somehow acquire one more major piece, then maybe Bosh thinks about it.

There's a 10% chance Bosh stays if we make the playoffs and no chance if we finish 9th.

What is so frustrating is that the Raptors roster has talent. Jack Armstrong wrote yesterday that based on pure talent, the Raps are fifth best in the East. I tend to agree.

My position has been that Bryan gave the keys to the season to a pseudo-rookie coach who is simply over-matched and that's where it fell apart.

I agree with Bosh on Turk. Beginning in the pre-season, Jay was Mr. Nice Guy and let Turk coast and not once pushed him. That set the tone for the season.

Centre Court wrote:There's a 10% chance Bosh stays if we make the playoffs and no chance if we finish 9th.

What is so frustrating is that the Raptors roster has talent. Jack Armstrong wrote yesterday that based on pure talent, the Raps are fifth best in the East. I tend to agree.

My position has been that Bryan gave the keys to the season to a pseudo-rookie coach who is simply over-matched and that's where it fell apart.

I agree with Bosh on Turk. Beginning in the pre-season, Jay was Mr. Nice Guy and let Turk coast and not once pushed him. That set the tone for the season.

I too agree that the Raptors are talented... but the balance of the talent is so one sided (offensively)that its doomed to fail.

Are we allowed to trade Turkoglu back to Orlando this off season? If the Magic don't win this year, maybe they would miss Turk and be interested. Plus they are stacked with players that could help us, like Barnes, Gortat, Shard, Bass, Peitrus, Anderson and even VC.

Centre Court wrote:What is so frustrating is that the Raptors roster has talent. Jack Armstrong wrote yesterday that based on pure talent, the Raps are fifth best in the East. I tend to agree.

Well, we're going to debate this a lot, but I am increasingly skeptical of Jack's conclusion, and yours. Our backcourt is weak, two good backups at point guard, two relatively ineffectual rookies at SG. Turkuglu is riding a reputation, not producing according to it, which means he is what he is. Wright is an over-rated defender, Belinelli a wild shooter, Amir is good for 10 minutes a game until he accumulates his third foul of the half. We have no backup C we want to put out there (no offence to Rasho, but he is just too slow now.)

If we're fifth best, it's only because of our scoring bigs. I am not a fan of Triano, but it's not all on him.

Victorious1 wrote:Are we allowed to trade Turkoglu back to Orlando this off season? If the Magic don't win this year, maybe they would miss Turk and be interested. Plus they are stacked with players that could help us, like Barnes, Gortat, Shard, Bass, Peitrus, Anderson and even VC.

yes.

theonlyeastcoastrapsfan wrote:

Victorious1 wrote:Are we allowed to trade Turkoglu back to Orlando this off season? If the Magic don't win this year, maybe they would miss Turk and be interested. Plus they are stacked with players that could help us, like Barnes, Gortat, Shard, Bass, Peitrus, Anderson and even VC.

yes.

Well let's hope they (the Magic) have a dissapointing playoff run... for our sake.

where do you rank winning on a 25 year old that wants the max contract and some press? doesn't seem to be the top priority. now if you see him take a 5 year deal elsewhere, then there's something to it, but let's see where bosh ends up this summer before we proclaim this playoff or bust mantra.

imho, bosh will leave if he wants to and it has nothing to do with the team or it's performance. i don't think it ranks up top in terms of importance.

Lol, just imagine if we traded Turkoglu + trash for VC. Then VC comes back in a Raps uniform and explodes for 50 in his first game.

"It's the rims, man".

I am so f**** sick of this crap it's not even funny.

He's going, he's staying, he's going, he's staying, he's going, he's staying ad nauseum, FFS.

If he decides to go, he goes! who gives a crap anymore, there is plenty more fish in the sea, we just move on just as anyone moves on after a divorce or splitting up with your GF.

The days of any athelete or organization, including Bosh holding this fan hostage are loooong over.

I honestly don't give a fig if Bosh leaves or stays, I prefer that he leaves actually so we can see whether this ship will sink or not without him, and if it does sink, who the f*** cares, rebuild from scratch (not that MLSE will ever do that).

Rant over, I don't feel better though.

djsunyc wrote:where do you rank winning on a 25 year old that wants the max contract and some press? doesn't seem to be the top priority. now if you see him take a 5 year deal elsewhere, then there's something to it, but let's see where bosh ends up this summer before we proclaim this playoff or bust mantra.

imho, bosh will leave if he wants to and it has nothing to do with the team or it's performance. i don't think it ranks up top in terms of importance.

This seems like a pretty wild leap of spin, but I guess it alleviates the team/Colangelo of any responsibility if he bolts, which is convenient. It's just also totally unfounded.

dagger wrote:

Centre Court wrote:What is so frustrating is that the Raptors roster has talent. Jack Armstrong wrote yesterday that based on pure talent, the Raps are fifth best in the East. I tend to agree.

Well, we're going to debate this a lot, but I am increasingly skeptical of Jack's conclusion, and yours. Our backcourt is weak, two good backups at point guard, two relatively ineffectual rookies at SG. Turkuglu is riding a reputation, not producing according to it, which means he is what he is. Wright is an over-rated defender, Belinelli a wild shooter, Amir is good for 10 minutes a game until he accumulates his third foul of the half. We have no backup C we want to put out there (no offence to Rasho, but he is just too slow now.)

If we're fifth best, it's only because of our scoring bigs. I am not a fan of Triano, but it's not all on him.

I agree with you. If you look down our roster, we only have an appreciable advantage over most teams at the 4. We're at a massive disadvantage at the 2 and 3, and we get nothing special at all out of our 1 spot.

Bosh is playing better this year than anyone could have rightfully expected, and Bargs has been at least as good as I expected, personally. Jack, too, is having a career year in terms of per-36 minutes. And we're getting more than we could have possibly expected from Sonny Weems and, to a lesser extent, Amir Johnson.

Turk has been a disappointment and Triano is a bad coach but I don't think we can ascribe all of the team's problems to them. Essentially, the problem in my eyes is that the Raptors don't have that much talent, and the talent they do have doesn't fit together particularly well.

scapeturk ftl

The "hardly alone" and franchise guy reference to motivating Turkoglu makes me think the article is referring to Bosh and Dwight. I don't think it's a stretch to think they've are close enough, and in similar positions, to have discussed this issue several times....

What's been most frustrating about this year is that this is probably one of the better Raptors squads ever assembled as far as depth and overall talent (offensive mind you but still) goes.

What's brutal is that this has been an extremely unusual year in the NBA. There might be 8 teams in the West this year who reach 50 or more wins! Are you kidding me? The top 16 teams in the league have taken a gigantic leap forward while we took a modest step. In past years, the talent seemed more evenly dispersed over the entire league save for one or perhaps two game-changing talents but in this Mark Cuban era of team building... anybody who wants to make the playoffs needs at least a big 3 of some kind and is at the tax, will be at the tax once their young core starts demanding more money, or is currently sitting in the luxury tax bracket.

You look at some of the top teams in the league and they read like all-star teams. Gone are the days where there was one superstar at the top (Jordan) capable of winning a game on his own and other teams hoping to win through a solid yet unspectacular franchise player, medium quality 2nd star and a mediocre 3rd banana. This current era is loaded with game changing talent. Lebron and Kobe are Jodan-esque. Durant, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Mello and Howard aren't far behind in their own ways. And most of those guys are also playing with fellow all-stars or in extreme cases... future hall of famers. On top of that, you still have Boston in the mix, refusing to die quietly.

It's frustrating because I sense that Chris Bosh wants to stay here and wants to do the right thing and likes Toronto but let's all put ourselves in his shoes for a moment and imagine that this wasn't your dream job but instead "just a job." If you were working at a company that wasn't getting it done and you weren't having as much fun as your peers and another company promised you more and a chance at a better career, are you trying to tell me you wouldn't consider it? The funny part is that I think Chris Bosh has a better sense of loyalty and pride than many of us would to our current workplaces.

Bosh is a class act and it's a real shame we haven't done enough to build around him. It reminds me of KG in Minnesota all over again. And DON'T bring up the fact that KG brought Minnesota to the playoffs by himself. I'm not comparing their game-changing abilities; I'm merely comparing the fact that Bosh is almost at that same caliber AND IS A BETTER HUMAN BEING. And we're probably going to lose him cause we didn't do enough to keep him... Frustrating.

dagger wrote:

Centre Court wrote:What is so frustrating is that the Raptors roster has talent. Jack Armstrong wrote yesterday that based on pure talent, the Raps are fifth best in the East. I tend to agree.

Well, we're going to debate this a lot, but I am increasingly skeptical of Jack's conclusion, and yours. Our backcourt is weak, two good backups at point guard, two relatively ineffectual rookies at SG. Turkuglu is riding a reputation, not producing according to it, which means he is what he is. Wright is an over-rated defender, Belinelli a wild shooter, Amir is good for 10 minutes a game until he accumulates his third foul of the half. We have no backup C we want to put out there (no offence to Rasho, but he is just too slow now.)

If we're fifth best, it's only because of our scoring bigs. I am not a fan of Triano, but it's not all on him.

Sure. We can debate the talent level and I have soured a bit on the actual talent we have.

That said, how much better is Miami's roster than Toronto's ? Why is it that Jermaine O'Neal struggled in Toronto and appears to fit just fine in Miami? Why is it that the Heat play decent defence, while the Raptors are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Is Miami really 5 wins better than Toronto?

While I'm not pinning this all on Jay - I still believe coaching matters a lot. I also think that Jay's coddling of Turk and to a degree Bargnani, sent the wrong message to others, including Bosh.

Unless BC significantly upgrades the backcourt/wing, Bosh won't even think about staying. That is my original blazing insight of the week.

I'm tired of reading that if we don't make the playoffs, it won't be Bosh's fault. Everyone else but his.

Luxury tax teams = playoffs

11 teams are paying the tax.

NYK's suck, but the Lakers, mavs, Celtics, Cavs, Magic, Nuggs, Suns, Jazz and the Heat are atop the standings.

Coincidence? This is pretty much all Bosh needs to know if MLSE is serious or not about putting up a winner.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/02/19/11-n ... uxury-tax/