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Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:10 pm**

Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread I viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1121231

Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread II viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1134836

Please continue the discussion here...

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:11 pm**

One Metta World Peace (the artist formerly known as Ron Artest) is busy on Twitter this afternoon reflecting on all the things he misses during the lockout. You need to see for yourself. A sampling of some of his work:

– I miss the LA times telling me how sucky I am. That’s the best. End the lock out. I miss jeff van gundy. The Malcolm x of announcers

– I miss the unhealthy plane food. I miss staples low music in the arena . Lebron misses Cleveland. I miss locking down people.

– I miss zen phil not giving Luke and Adam morrison playing time! I miss the bald headed Espn announcers. I miss the going bald TNT announcers

– I miss the dance teams cheering because they have too not necessarily because they want to. I miss Kobe taking shot after shot. Lmafo

– I miss Philly , Detroit and Boston fans. They craziest fans in the NBA . I be scared man! I miss going to Philly n Kobe buying Philly steaks

– I miss the refs running down the court like they have hot tomales in their pants.. I miss Charles Barkley commentating

– I miss Clyde fraziers lime green pig skin suites with orange slices throughout the linen and pitbull skit chin-klet-tas

– I miss the supersonics

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:13 pm**

whoknows wrote:you're math and/or general knowledge is lacking...

So you're saying 24% of 307 million isn't 73 million?

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:19 pm**

Ponchos wrote:
whoknows wrote:you're math and/or general knowledge is lacking...

So you're saying 24% of 307 million isn't 73 million?

No reason to continue arguing on this, I misread your comment.

Although not relevant, here is the latest estimated USA population:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:21 pm**

Ponchos wrote:I think you just earned some Tommy points.

Funny you should say that because Boston was one of the worst teams for having calls go their way. Especially on the defensive end.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:24 pm**

whoknows wrote:
Ponchos wrote:
whoknows wrote:you're math and/or general knowledge is lacking...

So you're saying 24% of 307 million isn't 73 million?

No reason to continue arguing on this, I misread your comment.

Although not relevant, here is the latest estimated USA population:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

Apology accepted.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:24 pm**

The game overall needs changing. Back in the day it was so different. Stars wanted to go head to head, Players wanted to be "the guy" on their respective teams. Defense was tougher.

I really enjoyed that brand of basketball but now everyone just wants to join up and make superteams to win. The game's been so heavily watered down and although I really wanna watch the Raps play this year, I'd rather we have a system that brings that brand of basketball back.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:28 pm**

MEDIC wrote:
Ponchos wrote:I think you just earned some Tommy points.

Funny you should say that because Boston was one of the worst teams for having calls go their way. Especially on the defensive end.

Yeah, bad calls happen. They can even favor one team over another one in any given match.

Refs don't have the luxury of instant replay (or even bird's eye camera angles), nor can they process everything that's gone on in the game thus far every time they blow the whistle.

Do you think it's possible that you're letting your bias as a fan influence your interpretation?

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:30 pm**

Rapsfan07 wrote:I really enjoyed that brand of basketball but now everyone just wants to join up and make superteams to win.

You mean kinda like Wilt did when he joined up with Baylor and West?

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:32 pm**

Ponchos wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:I really enjoyed that brand of basketball but now everyone just wants to join up and make superteams to win.

You mean kinda like Wilt did when he joined up with Baylor and West?

Didn't say it didn't happen.

But it's happening much more now and becoming the ONLY way to win.

This new CBA needs to make it a lot more costly to make moves like that.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:39 pm**

Rapsfan07 wrote:
Ponchos wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:I really enjoyed that brand of basketball but now everyone just wants to join up and make superteams to win.

You mean kinda like Wilt did when he joined up with Baylor and West?

Didn't say it didn't happen.

But it's happening much more now and becoming the ONLY way to win.

This new CBA needs to make it a lot more costly to make moves like that.

I'm not sure it's really happening more now. We've just had a strange confluence of a great class of young players coming off their 1st non-rookie deal (1st chance at UFA) combined with the fact that the teams they came from did not do a good job building around them.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:40 pm**

Not that I don't think the system couldn't use some changing, but the NBA has always been one of the worst leagues in terms of parity. It's history is more loaded with super teams than any other league unless you count the 6-team NHL. Bird, Parish, McHale and Johnson. Magic, Kareem and Worthy. Any championship Celtics team with Bill Russell. And there are plenty of teams with multiple stars that didn't win any titles - think Stockton and Malone.

The NBA has always been a league where teams with multiple stars won all the time. That hasn't changed any. And the more the league moves to restrict salary as a means for teams to keep players from joining up (maximum salaries) and forces players to stay with the team that drafts them even if it means losing for most of their careers, the more likely it will be that those players are going to join up at the first possible opportunity.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:45 pm**

Rapsfan07 wrote:The game overall needs changing. Back in the day it was so different. Stars wanted to go head to head, Players wanted to be "the guy" on their respective teams. Defense was tougher.

I really enjoyed that brand of basketball but now everyone just wants to join up and make superteams to win. The game's been so heavily watered down and although I really wanna watch the Raps play this year, I'd rather we have a system that brings that brand of basketball back.

I remember that too. Back when Kareem was traded so he wouldn't have to share with Magic, and James Worthy refused to play for the Lakers because he wanted to be the star. Kevin Mchale and Bill Walton both forced trades from the Celtics before they could ever start super teams, and Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan and Dennis Rodman never stepped on the court together.

Yeah, back in the old days there were no "superteams." Every team had their own superstar, and every team in the league had a 41-41 record.

The NBA already did a pretty good job at keeping superstars with their drafted teams. Carmelo, Amare, Lebron, Wade, and Bosh were all with their teams for 7 years - and although I hated the way the heat came together, they all had good reasons to leave. Sure, it was annoying and the Decision sucked, but why shouldn't Lebron have a choice of where he goes when he's a free agent? It's not like the Heat went over the cap to get their Big 3, THEY GOT RID OF ALL OF THEIR PLAYERS. Soft cap, hard cap, wouldn't have mattered. In fact, if there was a hard cap, the "superteams" of the league would be even stronger. Having a soft cap allowed Dallas to go WAY over the cap and have a really deep team, Miami was UNDER the cap.

I agree, I miss the days of the best players hating eachother, but that has NOTHING to do with the system. It has more to do with the mindset of the players and the fact that through recruiting, all star games, national teams, college teams, these guys grow up together. There are no system changes that the NBA can realistically make that will make Lebron and Wade hate eachother. That's up to them.

Although there's a lot of talk about competitive balance, it's really all about $$$.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:50 pm**

Since no progress was made today there is a good chance that this will blow up.

The idiot players don't realize that they kill their golden goose with decertification.
If it gets really ugly, the owners will be fain, just take their millions and invest in something more profitable. What are most of players going to do?

If decertification will happen, in two years when all is reconstructed, I can see a league with only 12 teams - possibly a second tear basketball league of another 12 teams.
It would really nice to promote/demote between the 2 leagues the top/last 4 teams each year. So top 4 teams from second league will replace bottom 4 teams in the premier league (two per each East/West).

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:51 pm**

whoknows wrote:Since no progress was made today there is a good chance that this will blow up.

Meeting is over?

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:52 pm**

Rapsfan07 wrote:
Ponchos wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:I really enjoyed that brand of basketball but now everyone just wants to join up and make superteams to win.

You mean kinda like Wilt did when he joined up with Baylor and West?

Didn't say it didn't happen.

But it's happening much more now and becoming the ONLY way to win.

This new CBA needs to make it a lot more costly to make moves like that.

I'm confused - what is it that you call a superteam? A really good team with multiple superstars?

That's just about every team that's won a championship in the past 30 years.

Is it a team full of superstars that coerced to join the same team in free agency, or by forcing a trade to a certain team?

That's the Heat and the Knicks. Neither has won a championship. The Celtics traded for KG (who originally didn't even want to play in Boston) and Ray Allen - there was nothing unorthodox about those trades, they stunk for years to build assets and traded them for stars. The Lakers have had a great run, but they really only traded for one star (Pau) in what ended up being a pretty fair trade for his brother. The other pieces they got in fair trades, draft, etc.

So who are these super teams?

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:56 pm**

I_Like_Dirt wrote:Not that I don't think the system couldn't use some changing, but the NBA has always been one of the worst leagues in terms of parity. It's history is more loaded with super teams than any other league unless you count the 6-team NHL. Bird, Parish, McHale and Johnson. Magic, Kareem and Worthy. Any championship Celtics team with Bill Russell. And there are plenty of teams with multiple stars that didn't win any titles - think Stockton and Malone.

The NBA has always been a league where teams with multiple stars won all the time. That hasn't changed any. And the more the league moves to restrict salary as a means for teams to keep players from joining up (maximum salaries) and forces players to stay with the team that drafts them even if it means losing for most of their careers, the more likely it will be that those players are going to join up at the first possible opportunity.

True, I think in the last 30 years NBA only had 9 teams to win the championship.
This kills the buzz in the rest of the markets...

Create a forced parity (restricting players movement) and league will have a chance to attract many more fans. How can a small market attract new fans when there is no chance they'll ever contend?

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:06 pm**

whoknows wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:Not that I don't think the system couldn't use some changing, but the NBA has always been one of the worst leagues in terms of parity. It's history is more loaded with super teams than any other league unless you count the 6-team NHL. Bird, Parish, McHale and Johnson. Magic, Kareem and Worthy. Any championship Celtics team with Bill Russell. And there are plenty of teams with multiple stars that didn't win any titles - think Stockton and Malone.

The NBA has always been a league where teams with multiple stars won all the time. That hasn't changed any. And the more the league moves to restrict salary as a means for teams to keep players from joining up (maximum salaries) and forces players to stay with the team that drafts them even if it means losing for most of their careers, the more likely it will be that those players are going to join up at the first possible opportunity.

True, I think in the last 30 years NBA only had 9 teams to win the championship.
This kills the buss in the rest of the markets...

Create a forced parity (restricting players movement) and league will have a chance to attract many more fans. How can a small market attract new fans when there is no chance they'll ever contend?

Small markets can contend, they just have to draft well. Remember the days before we drafted Bargs? Terrible. Now it's nothing but championship parades the last few years.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:11 pm**

Hardline owners screwing up things once again.
Peter Holt? Really? This guy has had a pretty successful team over the last decade despite being in a small market, what exactly is he bitching about?

Holt is a smart guy. The Spurs were lucky to get Duncan. With Duncan aging it is doubtful whether they can repeat their success without getting lucky in the draft again.

Holt knows that if the Spurs tank the crowds and the money will be curtailed, he needs a lower BRI to compete.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:09 pm**

"The union was hoping for more after Hunter and union president Derek Fisher, for the first time since the lockout began, were authorized Tuesday by player reps from 29 of the league's 30 teams to accept a 50/50 split in annual Basketball Related Income if they could secure concessions from the league on the five or so remaining "system" issues that have kept the sides from striking a deal."

So was Paul Pierce the only guy who said to to 50-50?

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Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread III

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