Question for the pro-tankers

clockwork · Post #21 » by **clockwork** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:35 am

tanking in general is idiotic.

Spadina · Post #22 » by **Spadina** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:38 am

sanity wrote:
Spadina wrote:If you are against barely sqeaking into the playoffs, what do you want exactly? Do just continue missing the playoffs ad infinitum?

Is it so hard to have higher expectations for a team that could actually compete vs. being a bottom seed in a league where the difference between the best teams and the mediocre ones are gigantic?

We've lived the 'barely squeaking into the playoffs' thing about 5 years ago and it proved unsustainable because of the franchises inability to attract marquee FAs (unless Turkoglu being overpaid a ridiculous amount counts as one)

We're not going to go from missing the playoffs one year to "competing" the very next year. It doesn't work like that. Boston did it, but they got two proven veterans in one off-season. We won't have that chance. At some point we're going to have to go AT LEAST one season just barely squeaking into the playoffs before we can "compete". Why not have next year the year we barely squeak in. If it's not next year, it will have to be put off yet another year.

Dr Positivity · Post #23 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:51 am

I just don't see the team having the talent to make a playoff run. Jose/Derozan/Bargnani trio and a bunch of defense first athletes and rookies... is not that impressive. Compared to say Philly having Iguodala, Holliday, Williams, Young, Turner, Brand, Hawes, Vucevic all who can do standout things. This team will still have bottom 5-7 talent in the league next year IMO.

Karl Marx · Post #24 » by **Karl Marx** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:01 am

Its interesting that you should say that. I spoke with some Sixers fans and before tonight's win @ Indiana they felt they should tank, get into the lottery and start the rebuild next season. So much for tankers knowing when to stop.

JV4MVP · Post #25 » by **JV4MVP** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:08 am

Spadina wrote:Let's say we start something like 6-11 in our first 17 games next season. Will you be calling for the team to tank yet another season, or will you hope they can turn it around and sneak into the playoffs?

Tanking is a disgrace... I assume people here will be tankers until 2023. It's like a psychological reaction to having a mediocre team... justify an absurd outcome to make yourself feel good (losing = good).

There are more ways to becoming competitive than trying to hit the draft lottery jackpot.

It would be hilarious if we got the #2 pick and picked the next Thabeet or Milicic. Or if we consistently get high picks and operate such as the Clippers of not so long ago.

redred9 · Post #26 » by **redred9** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:15 am

I'm pro tank this season but agree with the premise that the system sucks. I simply will watch other basketball if Dwayne Casey is finding excuses to throw games and rest healthy players again over the next seasons. It's completely stupid and I'm really over it.

Everyone that misses the playoffs gets a single lottery ball. Everyone will spend the cap and it'll be an old fashioned dogfight every season. Get er done, Stern.

Karl Marx · Post #27 » by **Karl Marx** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:16 am

Regression2u wrote:Tanking is a disgrace... I assume people here will be tankers until 2023. It's like a psychological reaction to having a mediocre team... justify an absurd outcome to make yourself feel good (losing = good).

Knowing psychology, I wanted to make this point some time ago. Very true.

I have hard time accepting that we are as bad as we are, but I still cheer for the team every game.
And will when we face Detroit.

Chaos Engine · Post #28 » by **Chaos Engine** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:16 am

Master Ze wrote:Tanking for 2 seasons is stupid. 2 solid rookies + Bargnani + Key FA's should allow this team to go 6-9th in the East realistically.

When was the last time this team signed a key FA? If you haven't noticed, they don't come here.

Lawnmower Man · Post #29 » by **Lawnmower Man** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:33 am

I'd be surprised if the Raps don't at least come very close to making the playoffs next season, especially in this pathetic Eastern Conference.

I expect them to be, at worst, what the Milwaukee Bucks are doing this season.

What we could do is pull a Cleveland. Be in 8th or 9th place all season...and if we start losing grasp of the playoffs and it looks like we're going to miss out of the playoffs with over two-thirds of the season gone, then pull a super tank and get a top-5 pick, lol.

brownbobcat · Post #30 » by **brownbobcat** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:26 am

Master Ze wrote:Tanking for 2 seasons is stupid. 2 solid rookies + Bargnani + Key FA's should allow this team to go 6-9th in the East realistically.

That's a TERRIBLE core, what are some people thinking? Maybe if the rooks turn out to be superstars, but 15-25 games would be way too little to evaluate that.

nelabai · Post #31 » by **nelabai** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:57 am

brownbobcat wrote:
Master Ze wrote:Tanking for 2 seasons is stupid. 2 solid rookies + Bargnani + Key FA's should allow this team to go 6-9th in the East realistically.

That's a TERRIBLE core, what are some people thinking? Maybe if the rooks turn out to be superstars, but 15-25 games would be way too little to evaluate that.

Casey + Barganni + Derozan + Two top5 rooks + FA signing (we can sign a damn good player with our cap space) - that's not terrible core at all. And if we are still tanking with that lineup, we will be tank nation for life.

C_Money · Post #32 » by **C_Money** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:49 am

I'm definetly not down for tanking again next year. If we start the season off with a losing record I expect BC to pull off some trades to get us into the playoffs.

Chaos Engine · Post #33 » by **Chaos Engine** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:52 am

nelabai wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
Master Ze wrote:Tanking for 2 seasons is stupid. 2 solid rookies + Bargnani + Key FA's should allow this team to go 6-9th in the East realistically.

That's a TERRIBLE core, what are some people thinking? Maybe if the rooks turn out to be superstars, but 15-25 games would be way too little to evaluate that.

Casey + Barganni + Derozan + Two top5 rooks + FA signing (we can sign a damn good player with our cap space) - that's not terrible core at all. And if we are still tanking with that lineup, we will be tank nation for life.

Again, what "damn good" FA is going to choose to come to Toronto? We need to be realistic here. Are you talking about Lin or Dragic? I'm not sure either is a damn good player (Dragic to me seems like a bad contract waiting to happen based off a small sample size, as is Lin).

Brinbe · Post #34 » by **Brinbe** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:48 am

Why are you asking us? That's for the team to dictate. For all this talk about a "tank" we actually did worse last year and there wasn't any uproar like you've seen this year.

And if they're not even competitive for a playoff spot four years in the lottery, that's a reflection on BC and management.

JV4MVP · Post #35 » by **JV4MVP** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:25 pm

Lawnmower Man wrote:I'd be surprised if the Raps don't at least come very close to making the playoffs next season, especially in this pathetic Eastern Conference.

I expect them to be, at worst, what the Milwaukee Bucks are doing this season.

What we could do is pull a Cleveland. Be in 8th or 9th place all season...and if we start losing grasp of the playoffs and it looks like we're going to miss out of the playoffs with over two-thirds of the season gone, then pull a super tank and get a top-5 pick, lol.

First, the Raptors obviously won't be the only team trying to improve. You can't assume that every team will remain stagnant and the Raptors will be able to catch up with Colangelo's genius drafting and FA activities, as well as the arrival of Jonas.

Secondly, this "Eastern conference is pathetic" rhetoric is very lame. Sure the bottom 4 playoff teams may not be Miami or Chicago but they're significantly better than our current team. I mean we win about 35% of our games (an have outperformed) and 8th place wins ~52% of their games. You cant let anomaly victories against Boston, NY, Atlanta bias you... in a 62 game season such rare events are expected. More importantly, in a 7 games series the Raptors would stand no chance with their current roster.

In sum, I would be surprised if the Raptors were able to compete for a playoff spot next season. Even if they finish in 9th, but are 13 games back from 8th place, I wouldn't consider it being competitive. But what do I know? I'm a pessimist.

DreamTeam09 · Post #36 » by **DreamTeam09** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:46 pm

Doesntt really matter if we r brringing over 2 rookies bcuz they will solid. Pretty sure Val will be better than Agray n whoever we get on the wings this draft will be better than Butler who we trotted out there 4 half a seasonn. Had no back up pg n tons of injry. The east is wide open u haters so its not like wee gotta strip tis team down to get somewhherre. I'm not scared of Indy, Philly, ATL, NY, Celtics will be crap next year Orlando is gonna get overhauled too. That's 6 playoffs teams who easily could have a worse year next year den they did this year n I'm noteven banking on that! None of those teams are built for even 1-2yrs ahead soo for all u nay sayers just remember u gave your "team" no shot at meaningful games u poor un basketball educated Haters! We would of made the playoffs with a healthy team this yrr

deeps6x · Post #37 » by **deeps6x** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:30 pm

sanity wrote:The fans don't have control over how badly the team sucks. A 20-win team is a 20-win team and *should* aim for 0 wins to maximize its chances at the draft.

Barely squeaking into the playoffs to get tossed out in 4 games isn't something to get excited over. Ask the Bucks/Pacers/etc. how fun it is to be first round fodder.

Hey, I'd take making the playoffs and having those 4 games, over finishing 22nd and getting the 12th pick in the draft, instead of the 15th pick in the draft. This has a decent chance of happening if they win any more games this season. Yay! We will get a slightly higher pick of the remaining 'project' players. Well, that was certainly worth tanking 3/4ths of the season for wasn't it?!?

If they don't lose to Detroit and to New Jersey, this season will have been a total failure - no matter if you wanted to see a quality team or a tank team. An absolute failure of a season. The kind that should get BC fired. Seriously.

deeps6x · Post #38 » by **deeps6x** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:44 pm

nelabai wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
Master Ze wrote:Tanking for 2 seasons is stupid. 2 solid rookies + Bargnani + Key FA's should allow this team to go 6-9th in the East realistically.

That's a TERRIBLE core, what are some people thinking? Maybe if the rooks turn out to be superstars, but 15-25 games would be way too little to evaluate that.

Casey + Barganni + Derozan + Two top5 rooks + FA signing (we can sign a damn good player with our cap space) - that's not terrible core at all. And if we are still tanking with that lineup, we will be tank nation for life.

Stop saying 'top 5' picks. Top 5 is GONE. They blew that option. You either are one of the three teams that 'win' the lottery and wind up picking 1st, 2nd or 3rd, OR you stay where you finished if nobody below you wins the lottery, OR you fall 1, 2, or 3 positions in the draft. If we beat Det and NJ and wind up with the 9th best odds in the lottery, there is a better chance that we fall to 10th, 11th, or 12th than that we move up to 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.

from24ft · Post #39 » by **from24ft** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:20 pm

C_Money wrote:I'm definetly not down for tanking again next year. If we start the season off with a losing record I expect BC to pull off some trades to get us into the playoffs.

That could be a horrible disaster. We are young team, we will have many new bodies in the lineup next year. It may not click right away.

Trading our youth for short term success only to plateau later would definitely be the nail in Bryan's coffin.

In this game, when you are struggling, other GM's look to fleece you. The really good trades are done when your team is showing promise, other GM's than are willing to pay a premium to get some of your mojo.

KL78192020 · Post #40 » by **KL78192020** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:26 pm

nelabai wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
Master Ze wrote:Tanking for 2 seasons is stupid. 2 solid rookies + Bargnani + Key FA's should allow this team to go 6-9th in the East realistically.

That's a TERRIBLE core, what are some people thinking? Maybe if the rooks turn out to be superstars, but 15-25 games would be way too little to evaluate that.

Casey + Barganni + Derozan + Two top5 rooks + FA signing (we can sign a damn good player with our cap space) - that's not terrible core at all. And if we are still tanking with that lineup, we will be tank nation for life.

In the history of this franchise when have we ever signed a "damn good player" with our cap space? Jose was our biggest free agent signing ever in terms of impact.