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Continuation of viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1172879&start=1425

To sum up the previous 3 threads:

Seems like there's been a change in venue for the malpractice suit agaisnt Dr. Mufasa.

The thing about Jonas as a prospect is that nothing about him is really Elite for NBA standards. His athleticism has been overrated around here, as it isn't at the level of Chandler, Mcgee, Ibaka etc.. Then when you add in his slight frame and lack of polished offensive moves, it is easy to see him end up as a low-end starter or high-end bench player. He just sorta seems average to me.

Although I just can't see the kid being a bust. The one thing busts have in common is a lack of heart. This kid has enough hustle that when you add it to the size and solid athleticism, he's going to make it in some sort of role in this league.

11/12 season is technically over.

I don't entirely disagree with Mufasa because I worry about Val's athleticism translating to a quicker/faster/longer NBA game, but it's stuff like this that makes me shake my head. Does anyone think Jonas at 24 wouldn't completely thrash the NCAA?

Mufasa clearly has something against Jonas. Usually, he does not care about athleticism and physical tools that much. He values skills, and we saw him hyping less athletic players than Jonas.
Jonas is one of the most physically gifted players still. We are not talking about Roy'ish, below average 6'6 guard here, Jonas is a 7 feet tall, with 7'5 wingspan... We gonna ignore that, because he is not explosive?

If we handle Jonas the right way it wouldnt surprise me if we had a superstar on our hands.

This is the opinion and optimism of a Raptors homer.

I want to temper my expectations, but I just think this guy is the next big thing as a C in the NBA. It's not like he has no skill as an offensive player - he's got good touch, a developing jump shot, and I've seen him handle the ball pretty well for a guy his size. Hopefully, he's working with Sabonis on his post game, but he's probably too busy this summer to work on his game, from a skill perspective. Looking forward to watching him play for Lithuania this summer.

Fairview4Life wrote:To sum up the previous 3 threads:

jonny three time wrote:The thing about Jonas as a prospect is that nothing about him is really Elite for NBA standards. His athleticism has been overrated around here, as it isn't at the level of Chandler, Mcgee, Ibaka etc.. Then when you add in his slight frame and lack of polished offensive moves, it is easy to see him end up as a low-end starter or high-end bench player. He just sorta seems average to me.

Although I just can't see the kid being a bust. The one thing busts have in common is a lack of heart. This kid has enough hustle that when you add it to the size and solid athleticism, he's going to make it in some sort of role in this league.

I think his rebounding, pick and roll game, and finishing around the basket are elite for NBA standards. That and strength is usually enough. We can call him elite FT shooter too, compared to NBA centers, he is one of the best.

I like his frame. He is not as huge as bumps like Perkins or Bynum, but he has wild shoulders and muscular body. I mean he is pretty skinny, but you can see him getting bigger constantly, and weight he gains is all muscle.

His athleticism has been grossly overrated at the time. I doubt athleticism will be a concern though, You can still throw high balls to him, he can run and his max vert isn't really that bad I think.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P85nrJT05HI[/youtube]

jonny three time wrote:The thing about Jonas as a prospect is that nothing about him is really Elite for NBA standards. His athleticism has been overrated around here, as it isn't at the level of Chandler, Mcgee, Ibaka etc.. Then when you add in his slight frame and lack of polished offensive moves, it is easy to see him end up as a low-end starter or high-end bench player. He just sorta seems average to me.

Although I just can't see the kid being a bust. The one thing busts have in common is a lack of heart. This kid has enough hustle that when you add it to the size and solid athleticism, he's going to make it in some sort of role in this league.

I don't agree he hasnt anything elite.
elite
His lenght is elite how much there is 7footers with 7'4'' wingspan in NBA?
His rebounding rates suggests he is elite rebounder and rebounding is best skill bigs translate from Euro game.
His pnr game is elite. Before draft season his 23% of possesions came from pnr and he converted 73% of them...
His touch around rim is elite.
above average
He is above average shotblocker.
Has above average first step for big.
Shows above average energy.
He is above average ft shooter and efficienty player

UcanUwill wrote:I think his rebounding, pick and roll game, and finishing around the basket are elite for NBA standards. That and strength is usually enough. We can call him elite FT shooter too, compared to NBA centers, he is one of the best.

I like his frame. He is not as huge as bumps like Perkins or Bynum, but he has wild shoulders and muscular body. I mean he is pretty skinny, but you can see him getting bigger constantly, and weight he gains is all muscle.

His athleticism has been grossly overrated at the time. I doubt athleticism will be a concern though, he can still throw high balls to him, he can run and his max vert isn't really that bad I think.

The problem with getting caught up in the "skills" he's shown with his pick and roll and finishing around the basket is that physically he's nowhere near being able to do that in the NBA regularly. You think Howard is great at the pick and roll because of his technique? All the great pick and roll guys, or finishers around the basket are that way because they're super-athletic with solid frames, or because they're powerhouses with solid athleticism. Technique alone just doesn't cut it.

Jonas is weak, with only solid athleticism to go with it. So in my eyes to believe that he will become a high-end scoring bigman you have to believe that he'll add a ton of strength to his frame without losing any athleticism with the extra weight. Or that he'll go the other way and develop a whole arsenal of finesse moves and turn into a Pau/Duncan type.

He's still young so maybe all of those things end up coming true, but it's just tough to buy in him developing either physically or skillwise THAT MUCH.

This guy SCREAMS LaMarcus Aldridge to me...

In 4 years of NBA coaching he'll have a semi-reliable 15 foot jumper and good crafty finishing around the rim.
But in the mean time, putback dunks, alley-oops and hustle play will keep you entertained.

He's wide enough that if he trains and eats right (including the obligatory NBA/HGH cocktail in the middle of every summer) he'll be a big by 24 and a monster by 26.

Or he could be

jonny three time wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:I think his rebounding, pick and roll game, and finishing around the basket are elite for NBA standards. That and strength is usually enough. We can call him elite FT shooter too, compared to NBA centers, he is one of the best.

I like his frame. He is not as huge as bumps like Perkins or Bynum, but he has wild shoulders and muscular body. I mean he is pretty skinny, but you can see him getting bigger constantly, and weight he gains is all muscle.

His athleticism has been grossly overrated at the time. I doubt athleticism will be a concern though, he can still throw high balls to him, he can run and his max vert isn't really that bad I think.

The problem with getting caught up in the "skills" he's shown with his pick and roll and finishing around the basket is that physically he's nowhere near being able to do that in the NBA regularly. You think Howard is great at the pick and roll because of his technique? All the great pick and roll guys, or finishers around the basket are that way because they're super-athletic with solid frames, or because they're powerhouses with solid athleticism. Technique alone just doesn't cut it.

Jonas is weak, with only solid athleticism to go with it. So in my eyes to believe that he will become a high-end scoring bigman you have to believe that he'll add a ton of strength to his frame without losing any athleticism with the extra weight. Or that he'll go the other way and develop a whole arsenal of finesse moves and turn into a Pau/Duncan type.

He's still young so maybe all of those things end up coming true, but it's just tough to buy in him developing either physically or skillwise THAT MUCH.

Amir Johnson was the 4th best PnR finisher in the NBA 2 seasons ago. pretty sure he was better than Dwight Howard at it. You don't need to be an athletic freak to finish on the PnR. You need to have good hands, awareness, and quick reactions.

Fairview4Life wrote:

jonny three time wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:I think his rebounding, pick and roll game, and finishing around the basket are elite for NBA standards. That and strength is usually enough. We can call him elite FT shooter too, compared to NBA centers, he is one of the best.

I like his frame. He is not as huge as bumps like Perkins or Bynum, but he has wild shoulders and muscular body. I mean he is pretty skinny, but you can see him getting bigger constantly, and weight he gains is all muscle.

His athleticism has been grossly overrated at the time. I doubt athleticism will be a concern though, he can still throw high balls to him, he can run and his max vert isn't really that bad I think.

The problem with getting caught up in the "skills" he's shown with his pick and roll and finishing around the basket is that physically he's nowhere near being able to do that in the NBA regularly. You think Howard is great at the pick and roll because of his technique? All the great pick and roll guys, or finishers around the basket are that way because they're super-athletic with solid frames, or because they're powerhouses with solid athleticism. Technique alone just doesn't cut it.

Jonas is weak, with only solid athleticism to go with it. So in my eyes to believe that he will become a high-end scoring bigman you have to believe that he'll add a ton of strength to his frame without losing any athleticism with the extra weight. Or that he'll go the other way and develop a whole arsenal of finesse moves and turn into a Pau/Duncan type.

He's still young so maybe all of those things end up coming true, but it's just tough to buy in him developing either physically or skillwise THAT MUCH.

Amir Johnson was the 4th best PnR finisher in the NBA 2 seasons ago. pretty sure he was better than Dwight Howard at it. You don't need to be an athletic freak to finish on the PnR. You need to have good hands, awareness, and quick reactions.

And a PG to set you up.

He had his best pnr season as 18 years old 225 lbs guy going against 30-50 lbs heavier C's. If he could do then I don't see how he can't do a few years later with 30 lbs added to his frame. Even when he was weak kid he didn't have problem finishing through contact. You are talking like all NBA C's are athletic freaks then in reality this isn't true. There will be guys who will cause him problems but slower guys like Kaman who he was destroing with pnr in Euro's will not be a problem.

This thread should change its name to "Jonas run to Olympics"

Fairview4Life wrote:

jonny three time wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:I think his rebounding, pick and roll game, and finishing around the basket are elite for NBA standards. That and strength is usually enough. We can call him elite FT shooter too, compared to NBA centers, he is one of the best.

I like his frame. He is not as huge as bumps like Perkins or Bynum, but he has wild shoulders and muscular body. I mean he is pretty skinny, but you can see him getting bigger constantly, and weight he gains is all muscle.

His athleticism has been grossly overrated at the time. I doubt athleticism will be a concern though, he can still throw high balls to him, he can run and his max vert isn't really that bad I think.

The problem with getting caught up in the "skills" he's shown with his pick and roll and finishing around the basket is that physically he's nowhere near being able to do that in the NBA regularly. You think Howard is great at the pick and roll because of his technique? All the great pick and roll guys, or finishers around the basket are that way because they're super-athletic with solid frames, or because they're powerhouses with solid athleticism. Technique alone just doesn't cut it.

Jonas is weak, with only solid athleticism to go with it. So in my eyes to believe that he will become a high-end scoring bigman you have to believe that he'll add a ton of strength to his frame without losing any athleticism with the extra weight. Or that he'll go the other way and develop a whole arsenal of finesse moves and turn into a Pau/Duncan type.

He's still young so maybe all of those things end up coming true, but it's just tough to buy in him developing either physically or skillwise THAT MUCH.

Amir Johnson was the 4th best PnR finisher in the NBA 2 seasons ago. pretty sure he was better than Dwight Howard at it. You don't need to be an athletic freak to finish on the PnR. You need to have good hands, awareness, and quick reactions.

This is the problem with advanced stats. You really believe that Amir is a better pick and roll option than Dwight is? That's why believing stats without realizing what your watching is just crazy. It wasn't that long ago that a Dwight/Hedo pick and roll took Orlando to the finals. Dwight is a pick and roll monster compared to Amir.

and Mufasa being the antagonic poster actually looks like SKar..

Can I just say that I think its amazing that we have so many NBA-level scouts on this board.

Wait...what?

You mean....these people making very specific and nuanced assessments of Jonas' game and how it will translate to the NBA have absolutely no experience in this area?

Huh....who knew?


I have a suggestion.

Why don't we all take a deep breath and wait to see how Jonas plays in the Olympic qualifying tournament and (assuming Lithuania gets in) at the Olympics.

IMHO, that is going to give us the first real clear sense of what kind of player he is going to start his NBA career as.