Slam: Raps 1 of the 5 teams likely to make a huge jump

[DG88]

Wow okay

Jamal Crawford
Nick Young
OJ Mayo
AK47
JR Smith
Courtney Lee
Michael Beasley

Just off the top of my head.

The Nets traded a heaping pile of scrubs for Joe Johnson. These types of trades are out there. Who would have thought we could get Kyle Lowry by trading Forbes and a draft pick? And if we have no assets then who's fault is that? The guy who's about to get fired once we miss the playoffs for the 5th year in a row.

Lol of course we have assets the question should be are our assets good enough to get that dynamic SG/SF? Outside of AK47, mind you that this board erupted at the thought of getting him, none of these guys are serious upgrades at the wing positions that people here have been clamouring for.

[StMikes31]

I laugh at people who think BC gets fired this season if we don't make the playoffs.

This is the third year of rebuilding - we will be much improved this season and he's going to get an extension.

No point in bringing a guy in now to trade everyone and tank again. We just tanked the last 2 years. Fans nor the owners want that.

[C_Money]

I laugh at people who think BC gets fired this season if we don't make the playoffs.

This is the third year of rebuilding - we will be much improved this season and he's going to get an extension.

No point in bringing a guy in now to trade everyone and tank again. We just tanked the last 2 years. Fans nor the owners want that.

BC has a ridiculous high contract. MLSE can find somebody to miss the playoffs every year at 1/4 of the salary. Sounds like an easy decision to me.

And we wouldn't have to gut the team just because a new GM comes in. Not sure where thats coming from.

[6Ft Under]

Wow okay

Jamal Crawford
Nick Young
OJ Mayo
AK47
JR Smith
Courtney Lee
Michael Beasley

Just off the top of my head.

The Nets traded a heaping pile of scrubs for Joe Johnson. These types of trades are out there. Who would have thought we could get Kyle Lowry by trading Forbes and a draft pick? And if we have no assets then who's fault is that? The guy who's about to get fired once we miss the playoffs for the 5th year in a row.

Don't waste your time man. Some people think these options weren't available

[RapsFanInVA]

Wow okay

Jamal Crawford
Nick Young
OJ Mayo
AK47
JR Smith
Courtney Lee
Michael Beasley

Just off the top of my head.

The Nets traded a heaping pile of scrubs for Joe Johnson. These types of trades are out there. Who would have thought we could get Kyle Lowry by trading Forbes and a draft pick? And if we have no assets then who's fault is that? The guy who's about to get fired once we miss the playoffs for the 5th year in a row.

Don't waste your time man. Some people think these options weren't available

Fine, let's say they were available. How many more wins would any of those guys realistically add to our team if we replaced DD, Ross, or Fields with one of them?

[sanity]

The argument of 'nobody else was available' still doesn't justify a marginal upgrade/over-payment for a non-impact player. The team could have just as easily retained J. Johnson and look towards next summer or the deadline to expand its options.

Now its the case of 'we'll never know' because the team isn't in a position to take in a large chunk of salary (usually how bad teams go about acquiring talent upgrades). Its clear Calderon's trade value/worth of expiring contracts in today's CBA isn't worth jack, especially if you don't have any picks to trade.

[DG88]

The argument of 'nobody else was available' still doesn't justify a marginal upgrade/over-payment for a non-impact player. The team could have just as easily retained J. Johnson and look towards next summer or the deadline to expand its options.

Now its the case of 'we'll never know' because the team isn't in a position to take in a large chunk of salary (usually how bad teams go about acquiring talent upgrades). Its clear Calderon's trade value/worth of expiring contracts in today's CBA isn't worth jack, especially if you don't have any picks to trade.

His contract isn't worth jack now because the trade period is on the low with team evaluating what they have. No serious trades will start until Decemeber 15th I believe, when newly signed players can be traded. Come the trade deadline Jose's expiring is more appealing to teams who want to increase their capspace come free agency.

[Alfred]

I'm not sure how Calderon's value is going to grow by playing him behind Kyle Lowry.

[J-Roc]

I'm not sure how Calderon's value is going to grow by playing him behind Kyle Lowry.

LOL, it'll grow like Barbosa, where we get a 2nd round pick. After all the years of fans saying..

1. Jose is a double-double PG, to
2. We'll start Jose so he keeps/gains value, to
3. Wait till Jose has a year left and he'll be a huge expiring, to
4. Wait till trade deadline and a desperate team will need a PG the caliber of Jose, to
5. BC moves Jose in the middle of the night for a 2nd round pick and a Cineplex Odeon gift card.

[Econgrad]

Wow okay

Jamal Crawford
Nick Young
OJ Mayo
AK47
JR Smith
Courtney Lee
Michael Beasley

Just off the top of my head.

The Nets traded a heaping pile of scrubs for Joe Johnson. These types of trades are out there. Who would have thought we could get Kyle Lowry by trading Forbes and a draft pick? And if we have no assets then who's fault is that? The guy who's about to get fired once we miss the playoffs for the 5th year in a row.

Wow, outside of Courtney Lee and Kirileno, everyone on your list is a self-absorbed chucker. A bunch of boneheads that I wouldn't want anywhere near a team that is trying to instill a philosophy of hard work and team defense.

[lucky777s]

And what makes BC worthy of using that excuse of 'what SF was available'? The fact is the Raptors have had some of the worst wing combos in the entire league for his 6 + years here.That didn't fly for Grunwald or Babcock. Why BC, who has already had far more rope than either of them.

So what you're saying is that SFs are just waiting to be picked from a tree ok gotcha

Wow, that is a sad response. by your standards there is no way to judge BC. 'What could he do?' you cry. He tried.

Triano tried the 'WTF you gonna do?' line and got fired.

Why is it so hard for you to just admit BC has put together some of the worst wing combos in the entire nba for his 6+ years in Toronto. Other teams are getting them from somewhere. Why does MIL have better wings. Why does IND have better wings. Why does DEN, GS, MEM, MIN, and other small market or losing clubs have better wings. They have no advantage over us in getting players.

Its not like the Raps built a rotation of dominant bigs while neglecting the wings. They have nothing.

If nothing good was truly out there ride with JJ/Bayless/Weems and see if one of them has breakout potential for cheap. Why overspend now on mediocre assets? We could have had Gerald Green for half the price of Fields as just one example. Or Weems for 20 cents on the dollar for 2 years.

Why has BC not made one single move in any draft year? He just sits there and takes who is left over.

You can continue to watch the 'trees' with BC and hope for a SF to fall into your lap. Some of us want a GM that actually has a sensible plan and discipline and uses assets more efficiently.

[DG88]

And what makes BC worthy of using that excuse of 'what SF was available'? The fact is the Raptors have had some of the worst wing combos in the entire league for his 6 + years here.That didn't fly for Grunwald or Babcock. Why BC, who has already had far more rope than either of them.

So what you're saying is that SFs are just waiting to be picked from a tree ok gotcha

Wow, that is a sad response. by your standards there is no way to judge BC. 'What could he do?' you cry. He tried.

Triano tried the 'WTF you gonna do?' line and got fired.

Why is it so hard for you to just admit BC has put together some of the worst wing combos in the entire nba for his 6+ years in Toronto. Other teams are getting them from somewhere. Why does MIL have better wings. Why does IND have better wings. Why does DEN, GS, MEM, MIN, and other small market or losing clubs have better wings. They have no advantage over us in getting players.

Its not like the Raps built a rotation of dominant bigs while neglecting the wings. They have nothing.

If nothing good was truly out there ride with JJ/Bayless/Weems and see if one of them has breakout potential for cheap. Why overspend now on mediocre assets? We could have had Gerald Green for half the price of Fields as just one example. Or Weems for 20 cents on the dollar for 2 years.

Why has BC not made one single move in any draft year? He just sits there and takes who is left over.

You can continue to watch the 'trees' with BC and hope for a SF to fall into your lap. Some of us want a GM that actually has a sensible plan and discipline and uses assets more efficiently.

Lol I'm not watching any trees but I'm putting out a truth that a big upgrade at the wing isn't an easy feat. For the teams you listed here's how they got their wings.

MIL:
Got Delfino of us for Amir and Weems
Ilyasova was a draft pick
Traded for Monta Ellis ( a guy who hasn't done anything noteworthy in his career)

IND:
Drafted Granger (Babcock's fault)
Drafted Paul George (BC wanted to take him with the 13th pick but Indiana got him 2 pick ahead of us)

DEN:
Drafted Carmelo Anthony
Traded Anthony for Gallinari and Wilson Chandler (Toronto wasn't even in the trade discussions)

GS:
Traded Stephen Jackson for Richard Jefferson
Drafted Harrison Barnes one spot before us (Blame BC for hiring Casey)
Drafted Klay Thompson (We had the 5th pick and didn't go after another lottery pick)

MEM:
Drafted Rudy Gay back in 2006 (Should have been our pick but BC chose Bargs, he gets blame for this)

MIN:
Signed Kirilenko (A guy most of you didn't want on this roster, someone BC should have gone after imo)

So for the most part the wings that are on the above teams were either acquire through trade deadline trades or drafted ahead of us on draft day.

Letting go JJ, Bayless and Weems isn't going to hurt us. JJ is a backup SF not a starter unless he starts hitting 3s with consistency. Bayless has to start for him to be effective though his ideal role would be a 6th man. Oh ya wasn't there a reason why we called him Chucky Weems on this board. It has been 6 years and no we haven't gotten that big upgrade at the SF spot and we need one badly I agree with that, but you and a lot of people are making it sound like either BC doesn't want a SF or it should be a simple task to get one. Both accusations are wrong, we've been in a few draft scenarios to get that elusive SF in Paul George and Harrison Barnes. Like I said above BC wanted Paul George with the 13th pick but Indiana wanted him also and they had the 11th pick if I remember correctly and they took him. The Barnes pick hurts the most because of a damn coin toss we lost our chance to get him. Though if we tanked better we could have gotten him. You can blame BC for hiring Casey a coach who pushed his players to play with effort and pride and got the most out of the roster. Overall I can't say that BC has done the best job in his 6 years here, but I can't totally blame him for not getting an upgrade at SF because it's quite difficult to acquire.

[hillbilly hare]

Didn't go after Batum, though Portland might've matched a poison-pill deal anyway. Could've at least tried.

Dorell Wright is a better SF than Fields, costs less, expires in a year, and Philly got him for a trade exception. He'd have been a nice pickup. Other teams do it, we don't.

Courtney Lee is a better SG than Fields and costs less. And went to a division rival.

If no quality was available, then quantity again, but at least better quantity.

I'd prefer a wing rotation of Wright, Demar, Lee, Ross. Ross is supposed to be able to play SF so he could back up there.

But let's face it. If it was just a question of upgrading the SF position, I don't think even Colangelo would've gone after Fields. He f*cked up with Nash, which conditioned our draft and then conditioned our free agency. Good god the guy is brutal. How the hell does he still have a job?

First he stumbles and bumbles thru the Bosh fiasco, just hoping for the best, and that blows up in our faces. Then he hums and haws and wishes and hopes and wrings his hands over Nash, and that blows up in our faces.

For those who keep insisting that Colangelo had no choice but to sign Fields and "block" the Knicks, because it was "100% certain" that Nash was going to sign with either us or the Knicks, consider this: Nash signed with the Lakers. For less than market value. For all the reasons that people were talking about just as soon as the season ended: staying near his kids, staying in the Western conference, playing for a winner, playing in a big market. Whose fault is it that nobody was talking about the Lakers as a possible/probable destination? The TO and NY media? Was Kupchak watching? Doesn't seem so. Guy got proactive and stole Nash out from under everybody's eyes. And our guy just wandered thru the fog for a couple weeks and wasted our free agency and probably next year's top-3 protected draft pick too.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I'm not sure how Calderon's value is going to grow by playing him behind Kyle Lowry.

I wasn't sure how it was supposed to grow when he was starting and getting destroyed in a basicly league worst triano defence. Nonetheless I think it was supposed to according to colangelo. I'm hoping he shows more in a limited backup role then he did as a starter. Keep him fresher too :O.

[Dr Positivity]

For those who keep insisting that Colangelo had no choice but to sign Fields and "block" the Knicks, because it was "100% certain" that Nash was going to sign with either us or the Knicks, consider this: Nash signed with the Lakers. For less than market value. For all the reasons that people were talking about just as soon as the season ended: staying near his kids, staying in the Western conference, playing for a winner, playing in a big market. Whose fault is it that nobody was talking about the Lakers as a possible/probable destination? The TO and NY media? Was Kupchak watching? Doesn't seem so. Guy got proactive and stole Nash out from under everybody's eyes. And our guy just wandered thru the fog for a couple weeks and wasted our free agency and probably next year's top-3 protected draft pick too.

The thing about the BC excuses at this point is that they're all designed to show that he's passable and not an atrocity, that he can build a winning team with some luck in the same way other mid level GMs can

I haven't seen someone argue BC is actually a GOOD and ABOVE AVERAGE GM, or essentially top 15 in the league, for years. And really the only way we should extend BC is if we actually think he's above average and ahead of the curve. Every rational team should be in one of two categories, either believing they have an above average/ahead of the curve management and being right, or believing they have an above average/ahead of the curve management and being wrong. If you don't think you have better management than your competitors, how can you justify trying to be a successful sports franchise? If MLSE thinks BC isn't above average, they have no excuse to keep him, especially at his salary and with 6 years of chances he's gotten and messed up. The answer is to mimic the Casey hiring at a GM scale by going to one of OKC, UTH, SAS, etc., doing enough homework to see which assistant is an overachiever, then giving him a shot to make moves for the same reasons their mentors did. I would absolutely bet on the Raptors being better off with a OKC VP hiring who is obsessed with getting rid of bad contracts and trading for extra draft picks, looking for value signings or using cap to acquire players. It sounds like our statistical foundation would work well with one of these "at least trying to be ahead of the curve" types too

[hillbilly hare]

Colangelo is living off his work in Phoenix. He was pretty good there. His major moves were drafting Amare (who was BPA, a bit of an unknown, huge upside, even though many teams had passed on him in the draft: which sounds like Bynum and Drummond, for those keeping score), signing Nash as a FA when Dallas thought he was finished, and hiring D'Antoni to make the high-speed offense work. But he also made a lot of other great moves by getting impact guys later in the draft: Nash, Marion, Finley, as well as showing a good eye for 2nd round talent in Gortat and Steven Jackson. Made a great trade for Joe Johnson

That is a great resume. Unfortunately he has produced at about 10% of that lofty level while here in Toronto. I have no idea why, but those are the facts. And if he wasn't named Colangelo and didn't have that success a decade (a decade) ago in Phoenix, he probably would've been fired a few years ago.

I too think it's time for fresh blood, fresh eyes, new thinking. If we keep Colangelo around we run the risk of him trying to save his reputation from Phoenix and doing whatever he can to keep the team semi-functional (and semi-dysfunctional) but with no real eye to putting together a good team. He hasn't gotten the job done in 6 years here, so it's time to let him go.