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MEDIC wrote:

West Rouge wrote:

MEDIC wrote:I think we've all learned (from Paul Peirce or Kobe situation) that when your franchise player is unhappy with the curent situation, as a management team you increase the talent around him.

You don't treade the guy.

You mean like BC bringing in Hedo?

Haha. I guess..........if you think that Bosh was even close to a prime Vince Carter.......

Well no i don't. Although BC sold him to us that way which was bad. But not as bad as....

Having Bargs as our main guys since Bosh left. Just thinking of both those scenarios make me mad that someone actually gets paid big money to create these rosters

I also think building around one star is another flawed approach in today's NBA. You need to obtain multiple star players to be taken seriously. And quite frankly if thats not possible for us to compete for a championship ever any reason. Im not longer interested

PS: I love VC threads.

You have all these guys popping out of the woodwork. Been on RealGM for 8+ years, but have < 100 posts.

West Rouge wrote:Well no i don't. Although BC sold him to us that way which was bad. But not as bad as....

Having Bargs as our main guys since Bosh left. Just thinking of both those scenarios make me mad that someone actually gets paid big money to create these rosters

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse.....

I will say i really miss the VC days

Seems like every year we get this. Its like an anniversary of a death. Just let it go. Its over.

J-Roc wrote:

Guy Smiley wrote:Please. VC wanted Dr. J and wasn't happy ownership didn't abide. Is that what defines going in a different direction?? Not hiring a GM requested by a player? Nah, VC destroyed his legacy here. Hope he got to experience the greener grass on the other side.

Jack the Ripper did terrible things to women's clothing.

IOW, way to avoid the essence of why that was an issue.

He was frustrated with the organization, and tried to take an active hand. Not just in terms of ideas, but recruiting, building up the idea of playing in Toronto, etc.

When GG was fired, Vince raised his concerns with the direction, and pushed for Dr. J to take over, in large part because of the profile issue he saw as central to the organization's struggles with top name talent.






And Peddie promised Carter they would interview him for the job.

Let me repeat that: he was promised. Peddie has never even denied it.


Forget whether you, yourself, as a fan then or now think Carter should have been given that promise...I would argue yes, it wasn't abnormal for stars and he was doing more for his organization than most, but w/e, side issue...the fact is, he was promised.

And then, not only was Erving never interviewed, but Carter found out that and the fact that Babcock was hired by reading about it in a newspaper. In any walk of life, that's Peddie giving Carter a big **** you.

So forget all the Spin he put on it afterward, that's what happened, that's what Peddie did to our franchise player, and yet people still want to spin it as spoiled VC didn't get what he wanted. He never demanded Erving be hired, at all. He asked that he be considered, and was promised he would, and then was told to go screw himself through the press.

That's the real history.

Vinsanity

Harry Palmer wrote:

J-Roc wrote:

Guy Smiley wrote:Please. VC wanted Dr. J and wasn't happy ownership didn't abide. Is that what defines going in a different direction?? Not hiring a GM requested by a player? Nah, VC destroyed his legacy here. Hope he got to experience the greener grass on the other side.

Jack the Ripper did terrible things to women's clothing.

IOW, way to avoid the essence of why that was an issue.

He was frustrated with the organization, and tried to take an active hand. Not just in terms of ideas, but recruiting, building up the idea of playing in Toronto, etc.

When GG was fired, Vince raised his concerns with the direction, and pushed for Dr. J to take over, in large part because of the profile issue he saw as central to the organization's struggles with top name talent.






And Peddie promised Carter they would interview him for the job.

Let me repeat that: he was promised. Peddie has never even denied it.


Forget whether you, yourself, as a fan then or now think Carter should have been given that promise...I would argue yes, it wasn't abnormal for stars and he was doing more for his organization than most, but w/e, side issue...the fact is, he was promised.

And then, not only was Erving never interviewed, but Carter found out that and the fact that Babcock was hired by reading about it in a newspaper. In any walk of life, that's Peddie giving Carter a big **** you.

So forget all the Spin he put on it afterward, that's what happened, that's what Peddie did to our franchise player, and yet people still want to spin it as spoiled VC didn't get what he wanted. He never demanded Erving be hired, at all. He asked that he be considered, and was promised he would, and then was told to go screw himself through the press.

That's the real history.

I believe this.

Harry Palmer wrote:

J-Roc wrote:

Guy Smiley wrote:Please. VC wanted Dr. J and wasn't happy ownership didn't abide. Is that what defines going in a different direction?? Not hiring a GM requested by a player? Nah, VC destroyed his legacy here. Hope he got to experience the greener grass on the other side.

Jack the Ripper did terrible things to women's clothing.

IOW, way to avoid the essence of why that was an issue.

He was frustrated with the organization, and tried to take an active hand. Not just in terms of ideas, but recruiting, building up the idea of playing in Toronto, etc.

When GG was fired, Vince raised his concerns with the direction, and pushed for Dr. J to take over, in large part because of the profile issue he saw as central to the organization's struggles with top name talent.






And Peddie promised Carter they would interview him for the job.

Let me repeat that: he was promised. Peddie has never even denied it.


Forget whether you, yourself, as a fan then or now think Carter should have been given that promise...I would argue yes, it wasn't abnormal for stars and he was doing more for his organization than most, but w/e, side issue...the fact is, he was promised.

And then, not only was Erving never interviewed, but Carter found out that and the fact that Babcock was hired by reading about it in a newspaper. In any walk of life, that's Peddie giving Carter a big **** you.

So forget all the Spin he put on it afterward, that's what happened, that's what Peddie did to our franchise player, and yet people still want to spin it as spoiled VC didn't get what he wanted. He never demanded Erving be hired, at all. He asked that he be considered, and was promised he would, and then was told to go screw himself through the press.

That's the real history.

God forbid anyone not believe the entirely truthful toronto media after a player is gone right? It's pathetic when you have an entire media outlet slag a guy with BS and have all the idiots under the sun crap on them because they were told to.

KEEP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID KIDS IT'S WORKED WELL SO FAR

I **** love Vince. Best raptor in history, easy. The guy actually loved Toronto. I've always thought it bizarre that he became hated for the very reason I think he deserved leniency: coming clean about his attitude towards the end.

Phenomenologist wrote:I **** love Vince. Best raptor in history, easy. The guy actually loved Toronto. I've always thought it bizarre that he became hated for the very reason I think he deserved leniency: coming clean about his attitude towards the end.

Even more bizarre: he never came clean about his attitude towards the end. He came clean about realizing he had not worked hard enough when he was much younger, "before all the injuries." That he took the game for granted because it came so easily to him.

Look up the actual interview with John Thompson...you'll be amazed.


When you start delving into what he actually said/did vs. how it was played, you either get a new respect for Peddie, or something even less appealing.

Harry Palmer wrote:

Phenomenologist wrote:I **** love Vince. Best raptor in history, easy. The guy actually loved Toronto. I've always thought it bizarre that he became hated for the very reason I think he deserved leniency: coming clean about his attitude towards the end.

Even more bizarre: he never came clean about his attitude towards the end. He came clean about realizing he had not worked hard enough when he was much younger, "before all the injuries." That he took the game for granted because it came so easily to him.

Look up the actual interview with John Thompson...you'll be amazed.


When you start delving into what he actually said/did vs. how it was played, you either get a new respect for Peddie, or something even less appealing.

Lulz, just watched the video. There's really nothing else? I'm glad I've never held anything against him on that basis, then. Worked out nicely. Not so much for some others. Eesh.

Phenomenologist wrote:

Harry Palmer wrote:Lulz, just watched the video. There's really nothing else? I'm glad I've never held anything against him on that basis, then. Worked out nicely. Not so much for some others. Eesh.

I used to be considered a Carter critic. Always annoyed friends by saying T-Mac had more talent, back before he left. Carter blew me away at times, sure, but I was worried about his defence and erratic effort.

Then the trade request happened, and suddenly I found myself a Carter apologist, just by standing still while the stampede went in the other direction. Watching all kinds of crazy theories go from speculation to confirmed truth just by virtue of being repeated enough times. Flare play, tanking, Rafer, etc.

So if it gets crazy enough around here, I'd almost be unsurprised if I become a Bargs apologist, just by saying that, no, he did not threaten to bomb the ACC with pasta, or w/e.

^^LOL, I'm trying to picture what a pasta bombing would look like. Saucy I imagine. And, yah, I feel as if I've already become something of a Bargs apologist ... not a scrub, just not a star ... not the cause of global warming, just an indifferent coddled sac who's been treated like a king by our lunatic GM.

Harry Palmer wrote:

J-Roc wrote:

Guy Smiley wrote:Please. VC wanted Dr. J and wasn't happy ownership didn't abide. Is that what defines going in a different direction?? Not hiring a GM requested by a player? Nah, VC destroyed his legacy here. Hope he got to experience the greener grass on the other side.

Jack the Ripper did terrible things to women's clothing.

IOW, way to avoid the essence of why that was an issue.

He was frustrated with the organization, and tried to take an active hand. Not just in terms of ideas, but recruiting, building up the idea of playing in Toronto, etc.

When GG was fired, Vince raised his concerns with the direction, and pushed for Dr. J to take over, in large part because of the profile issue he saw as central to the organization's struggles with top name talent.






And Peddie promised Carter they would interview him for the job.

Let me repeat that: he was promised. Peddie has never even denied it.


Forget whether you, yourself, as a fan then or now think Carter should have been given that promise...I would argue yes, it wasn't abnormal for stars and he was doing more for his organization than most, but w/e, side issue...the fact is, he was promised.

And then, not only was Erving never interviewed, but Carter found out that and the fact that Babcock was hired by reading about it in a newspaper. In any walk of life, that's Peddie giving Carter a big **** you.

So forget all the Spin he put on it afterward, that's what happened, that's what Peddie did to our franchise player, and yet people still want to spin it as spoiled VC didn't get what he wanted. He never demanded Erving be hired, at all. He asked that he be considered, and was promised he would, and then was told to go screw himself through the press.

That's the real history.

Even if that story you spelled out is true, it doesn't make much difference to me. I can't stand a player wanting off his team, especially when he's under contract. And I'm pretty sure I heard VC enough times explain that he just needed a change of scenery.

And oh, btw, if he stayed, he could have played with one of the best up and coming power forwards in the game, in Bosh. So it goes to show what a player knows about building a team. Even if Peddie promised him stuff, Vince was wrong for getting his panties in a knot when it didn't work out that way. Vince was wrong when he wanted to trade the Bosh pick. He should have stuck around to see it through, because he was under contract.

In any case, the discussion people are having these days is whether to retire his jersey. wtf He wanted out and now we're going to celebrate him. Forget that. People like to use the ex-gf analogy. Well, I can't dump a girl because I want to try out something new, but then come running back when I'm old and over the hill and expect the ex to take me back and smile doing so. That would be no less ridiculous than VC getting upset because Peddie didn't plan the team with him.

I really don't care what anyone says, I hope he rots in obscurity.

3 words: dunking.is.overrated.

Nuff said

I've been a Raptors fan from day 1, and by far the best player this team had was Vince Carter. Bosh is not even a close second. Say what you will about dunking, Vince was not just a dunker, he could dominate a game. I never thought that he ever played to his potential. In my mind, and many "haters" will argue, he could have been as close to Michael Jordan, if not better... I know, history played itself out differently. We did not have the team to win here, and Vince was simply not interested in playing the tough defence it takes to win championships. There was no real second "star" caliber player in Toronto, and we overspent on AD, JYD, and Alvin Williams.

I was really dissapointed when he was traded. It was clear that he no longer wanted to be here, and his last months in Toronto, ensured that we got the package of players we got in trade. Yes, Rob Babcock, is as much, if not more to blame, but Vince screwed the franchise over by quitting on the team.

While, I fully appreciate the VC "golden" years in Toronto, I simply don't support his hersey being retired. Call it bitter, but getting to a 7th game of the second round and all those awesome dunks are really not enough for me. He flat out does not deserve it.

Booing him now is pointless.

I think that Jeff Vangundy shares his dissapointment of Vince more than anyone else. It simply floors me when during an ESPN telecast where he does Dallas games, how he can't contain himself talking poorly about Vince's career.

Simply put, the biggest waste of talent, who never played to his potential.

J-Roc wrote:Meh, a bunch of garbage. He demanded a trade. No one boos him because we think he hated Toronto. We boo him because he wanted to go help the fans in the swamp of Jersey win, rather than his fans here. gtfo with this jersey retiring crap. Go let Jersey do that for you. Oh right, no more team in NJ. Oh right, you were only ever considered a Richard Jefferson caliber player to the real star J KIdd. g t f o

For once I can say "I agree, and endorse this JRoc statement."

Blazer_2458 wrote:I really don't care what anyone says, I hope he rots in obscurity.

3 words: dunking.is.overrated.

Nuff said

I can't believe idiots are still quoting this.
HE DUNKED THE NEXT GAME. IT WAS A JOKE.

MEDIC wrote:PS: I love VC threads.

You have all these guys popping out of the woodwork. Been on RealGM for 8+ years, but have < 100 posts.

Would you wake me up when we're in the playoffs again?