If you could go back in to handle Bargs?

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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#46 » by Neutral 123 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:48 am

Salted Meat wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
Salted Meat wrote:I certainly wouldn't have put him in a situation where he had to play out of position from day 1. if I decided I was drafting (and keeping) Bargnani, I'd have looked to trade Bosh for as high a draft pick, or as good a collection of young assets as possible. Tanked again for another year, and had a chance at landing Durant or Oden.

What is his position? People are still debating this till this day. I honestly don't know why anyone would in hindsight still try to work with this guy. Don't draft him. If this assumes you had to draft him, then trade him asap. If it means you have to keep him for a while, then you have him come off the bench. Basically, the least Bargs the better.

Bargnani is a stretch 4. That much should be obvious. In hindsight, yeah, I probably don't draft a guy who plays the same position as my best player, but we did, and the question is about how we could have developed him better. Its easy to say we should have never drafted him, but that doesn't really offer any insight, does it? If, even in hindsight, the Raptors would have still selected Bargnani, and still had the intention of developing him, then you have to work with it.

If we're working under the premise that Bargnani is a halfway decent talent who could have been a very good player had he been developed differently, then you play him at his natural position, the 4 spot, and force feed him minutes to see what he can do, and surround him with players who complement his style of play. You certainly don't pair him with another face-up big who plays away from the basket and expect him to adjust to playing two completely different positions in the same year. How many guys in the NBA play a combo of SF and C who have little to no experience playing either position before entering the league? Bargnani was doomed to fail.

Well at least you admit he's failed. The guy has played the exact same way regardless of his assigned position. You'll never lose Bargs. You know where to find him. He'll be hanging around at the 3 point line with his hands up ready to chuck up another 3. That never changed. Bosh and Bargs was bad for winning, not for Bargs' development. He was force fed minutes, still is. And why would you take a role player and build your roster to suit him? He's not a guy you build around. None of this makes any sense.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#47 » by StatLine » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:48 am

Really, Colangelo is what hindered his development. He babied him too much to a point bargnani became comfortable enough to not give a damn about rebounding because he wont be held accountable regardless of who's coach. He's the spoiled kid who gets things not because he wants it, but because he can. Colangelo is a cancer.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#48 » by wolfv » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:53 am

We already had a young PF who was much better. I wanted Rudy Gay, but now looking back maybe trade that worthless pick
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#49 » by lucky777s » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:14 am

If you are going back in time you just don't draft him.

But if you can only go back to a point after the trade him.

Otherwise, if you draft a SF you play him at SF and train him to be a SF. You work him hard on his agility and dribble drives and give him a couple of post moves for when he has a small guy on him. You bench him when he doesn't play with energy and bounce.

You look at early Bargs video and you see a guy who pursued blocks and rebounds. You see a guy who played with some fire. You want him to be Dirk 2.0 you have him train with Dirk in the offseason or with Dirk's longtime trainer. I though Alex English could have been a good mentor too for him but that did not happen.

If he naturally evolves into a PF then you trade him or trade Bosh earlier when he clearly was not going to sign that next extension.

Really the Bargs mistake is something we could have overcome if BC did not blow all our cap space on shortsighted moves and give away so many draft picks.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#50 » by Mr.Raptorsingh » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:24 am

Y'all just watch - The 'Nani will come back with a vengeance, and dominate like he has never before. #the return
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#51 » by Ted Lasso » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:07 am

I would have tried to trade him, along with one of Jose and TJ, to Memphis for Pau Gasol. I actually wanted this at the time.

In terms of his role on the team, once it became clear in his second season that he couldn't play centre, we shouldn't have kept trying to make that arrangement work at a cost to the team for years. Bargnani is a 6th man. And not an elite one who deserves big minutes. If they couldn't trade him, they should have made him a 6th man. Just as they should now.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#52 » by Ted Lasso » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:09 am

zilby wrote:This almost feels like the timeline episode of Community where they visit six different scenarios :lol:

I love that episode! And the video game one. :D
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#53 » by Ackshun » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:11 am

Don't gain weight. Work on lateral quickness, handles, and passing. In that order.

Play him off the bench at the 4 position.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#54 » by suntzuballin » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:45 am

have him spare with one of the Klitschko brothers lol
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#55 » by gamer4Life » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:33 pm

Fire BC.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#56 » by Edwardo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:32 pm

The answer to the OP's question is... NOT DRAFT HIM! LOL
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#57 » by Big Shot » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:39 pm

It was a mistake to draft him at #1.
It was a bigger mistake to think that he would become a C in the league.
Given he was already on board, I would have played him strictly at 3 and hoped that he would improve his speed and quickness to the level required at that position. If not, trade him in year 3.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#58 » by two5 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:23 pm

You ship his ass out.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#59 » by dacrusha » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:28 pm

By his 3rd year, it was clear that he was going to be a player with one above average skill-set (scorer), but without a defined position and without any other discernible skill of note (defense, rebounding etc)

What do you do with a player like this? You have him come off the bench as scoring threat and develop him into a possible 6th man of the year candidate.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#60 » by Saciid11 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:35 pm

Same way I felt back then ...

Trade down take Rudy Gay ..

Take Aldridge with the #1 pick


Just take Rudy Gay with that top pick ... at least Rudy fills need this team had at the time and at worst he would have been elite defensive small forward like he is now, all star to borderline all star like he is now and will have an impact on wins ...
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#61 » by JN » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:46 pm

Ultimately the issue started when BC inseminated Andrea's mother.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#62 » by Too Late Crew » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:31 pm

If we are going to assume that we draft Bargs. Then by the end of year two BC should have made a choice. Bosh or Bargs. I think its really that simple. They tried Bosh with a perimeter poor rebounding defending front court partner Charlie V. It didn't work and anyone with a brain saw it din't work.

So Bosh and Bargs was never going to work. I'm going to assume that drafting a guy #1 and turning him into a 6th man wasn't really an option so its pretty cut and dry. You can't play Bosh and Bargs together and win. So one has to go.

I don't think coaching or paying C or SF or anything else would radically change what Bargs is. Players either have greatness in them and work to bring it out because they have the drive to do it (Dirk, Kobe Nash all working endlessly in the gym ) or you don't . Brags "don't"
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#63 » by team edward » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:33 pm

1. Fire Sam Mitchell and hire Dwayne Casey. Some may think Mitchell would have been good for Bargnani, but his realtionship with BC was doomed to failure. BC respects Casey. At the least, Bargs would have learned NBA defence from day one.
2. Avoid force-feeding him starter minutes in his first year, which only led to him settling into the only role he could perform - outside shooting 7-footer. Have him back up Bosh or have Bosh play centre, have him play in a stretch 4 role only, whatever - just don't drive him toward one-dimensional play.
3. Send him to big-man camp before each of his first 3 seasons.
4. Deny him the option to compete with the Italian national team.
5. Enforce a pre-season weight limit - he can't play or get paid unless he makes weight.
6. Give him better media training, and insist he not do foreign language interviews without prior clearance.
7. Extend him at $8mil/year instead of $10mil
8. When he got injured last year, let him stay injured until he was fully ready to return and in game-shape.
9. Permit Ed and Amir to fight him for minutes.
10. Trade him over the past off-season for a Rasho-quality starting 5, a mid-to-late 1st round pick and cap relief.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#64 » by Dr Positivity » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:26 pm

Smitch had the right idea developing Bargs. Keep him.
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Re: If you could go back in to handle Bargs? 

Post#65 » by sanity » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:28 pm

I really don't see much of a difference in Bargnani's game in the last 4 years---at least when comparing the job Triano/Casey have both done with him. Defensively, he hasn't developed in any way/shape/form. If anything he was at his best in that aspect during the Smitch years, at least statistically

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